Superior quality of nylon holstets...


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TarDevil
November 1, 2012, 07:25 PM
...the metal belt clips. Many are superior to those from several other "reputable" holster makers (Tagua comes to mind first!). A little work here and there with a file to make them fit, you're good to go!

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Drail
November 3, 2012, 11:22 AM
A person who relies on a holster using a clip is a sign of a inexperienced amateur. Over the years I have seen far too many radios, guns, keyrings, knives and flashlights that were attached with a clip and were "lost". Sometimes we would find it and sometimes someone else would find it. Your carry gun needs to be securely attached to your person. Convenience has no place here. Clips are for kids.

Sam1911
November 3, 2012, 01:47 PM
While I'm not quite ready to speak quite so ... derisively ... as Drail, I'm not ready to grant holster clips much legitimacy. They fall into the category of things that work ok, sometimes, usually, pretty much -- and lure people into thinking that they will work correctly always, as needed, on demand, and when the situation is more critical.

The fact that they tend to come on cheapy, bad, "universal-fit," nylon holsters -- and DON'T come on high-quality, well-fit, custom and/or high-performance leather or Kydex carry and duty holsters -- can be a bit of a clue. Makers and manufacturers don't put these on good, reliable, secure, long-lasting holsters because they'd be an obvious weak link.

They really only have a place on holsters where "cheap" is the most important factor.

9mmepiphany
November 3, 2012, 04:28 PM
My experience parallels that of both Drail and Sam.

While there may be an exception here or there, my general rule is to avoid using or recommending them. The fact that they are usually found on holsters built to a price point rather than a performance point does not instill additional confidence in it's ability to perform.

The only nylon holster I normally recommend, at all, is the Bianchi UM-84

beatledog7
November 3, 2012, 05:49 PM
I use a "universal" nylon holster in my truck, one that reasonably accommodates whatever handgun I need it to at a moment's notice. I have another attached inconspicuously to the desk at which I'm currently sitting.

Neither of these does any actual carry duty--they provide a reliable stationary nestling place for the variety of handguns they're asked to--and that's all they'll ever do.

Ehtereon11B
November 3, 2012, 08:30 PM
Ah the "purist" argument against clips.

Clips are cheap. Not everyone can afford a $70-$200 leather holster for every firearm they carry. If I followed such purist nonsense I would have 10x more money invested in holsters than the firearms themselves. I have 5 main holsters that fit all my carry firearms. 4 of them use metal belt clips. I have never lost, dropped, or had a weapon slide out unintended. My duty holster is a Thumbdrive holster. Similar to the SERPA only safer in my opinion, with a more secure retention.

On the other hand there are really bad nylon holsters. If you only want to spend $7 on a holster, chances are you aren't going to get something that lasts very well. Universal or semi-fitted holsters are fine as long as you consider you aren't going to find something decent until you hit the 30-50 range.

9mmepiphany
November 3, 2012, 10:07 PM
It really isn't about being a purist.

I've never understood why folks feel it is unreasonable, to spend 20%m or even 10% the cost of a gun on a holster...but them I've never understood letting a clothing buyer in Arkansas determine fashion either, but Sam's and Walmart seem to have proven that that market exist.

My personal feeling is that a holster sized for a specific gun holds it more securely, presents it more consistently and allows better function/access for the user...a generic holster seems similar to running track in flip-flops. I'm not saying it can't be done...as has been recently proven...just that there are better choices

Ehtereon11B
November 3, 2012, 10:45 PM
That is where I am kinda on the fence as well. I don't buy holsters from Wal-Mart or Sams. Mostly because of poor selection. 10-20% of a firearms value is reasonable price for a holster. Bought my first handgun for $550 and spent $7 on an OWB holster that I never use and never have used. Only holster I regret buying. I just don't see spending $200 on something like a High Noon holster that will only fit one firearm when you can spend $50 on a nylon holster that can fit 3 handguns. I do see myself buying one or two high end holsters eventually but it really isn't necessary for every firearm.

Sam1911
November 3, 2012, 10:50 PM
There are some very nice holsters available in the $35 range (www.shado.com) and you can get tons of perfectly safe, secure, and serviceable holsters in the $50-$100 range. Jumping up to $200 is boutique stuff that you buy to show off a little, not because you NEED to.

Seeing as all this is verifiably true, dumping pretty much any amount of money one a nylon and/or "belt-clip" type holster just seems foolish. You're carrying a lethal weapon for a serious purpose. You don't have to break the bank, but don't cheap out on something so important.

Rail Driver
November 3, 2012, 11:22 PM
My BUG rides in a Talon leather IWB holster that attaches to my belt via a strong steel clip (one of those good thick ones that has a shelf that retains the belt). It wasn't cheap (~$55 IIRC), but it wasn't the $189.99 Galco Miami Classic that I'd love to have but can't justify the cost.

The Talon holster doesn't budge from where I put it, even when running, climbing (and falling off a ladder - don't laugh too hard).

Not ALL clips only come on cheap dirt garbage holsters, and not all clips are poorly designed using substandard materials. YMMV

motorcycle-charlie
November 3, 2012, 11:41 PM
I run a custom made holster from Ryan Grizzle with my input to slightly modify one of his designs for around $65.00. Great retention, secure loop , delivered in about 6 weeks. I have 3 of his holsters. Nice stuff. Great guy to talk to on the phone or via email. Quality stuff that is made for YOUR gun and won't shatter the piggy bank. Give him a look. You will be glad you did.

The Lone Haranguer
November 4, 2012, 01:21 AM
Almost all nylon holsters are made to be cheap, but it is not the clips, per se, that make them so . Clip retention works perfectly well for IWB holsters. I wouldn't clip any holster to the outside of a belt as it would be very unstable.

A little work here and there with a file to make them fit, you're good to go!

:confused:

9mmepiphany
November 4, 2012, 01:28 AM
I just don't see spending $200 on something like a High Noon holster that will only fit one firearm when you can spend $50 on a nylon holster that can fit 3 handguns. I do see myself buying one or two high end holsters eventually but it really isn't necessary for every firearm.
I hope I'm reading this wrong...maybe it has been too long since I've looked, but I thought High Noon holsters usually ran <$100. I've always considered them a mid-grade production holster...like Galco...certainly not a high end holster.

High end holster aren't always that much more than more expensive mid-grade holsters. Most of the Milt Sparks products run right around $100; which is only 10% of a SIG or H&K and only about 20% of a Glock or M&P. Mitch Rosen's Express line runs a bit less...but even his regular line runs <$200

My BUG rides in a Talon leather IWB holster that attaches to my belt via a strong steel clip (one of those good thick ones that has a shelf that retains the belt)
That is the holster I was thinking about when I said there are exceptions...the shelf makes all the difference

Ehtereon11B
November 4, 2012, 05:04 AM
I hope I'm reading this wrong...maybe it has been too long since I've looked, but I thought High Noon holsters usually ran <$100. I've always considered them a mid-grade production holster...like Galco...certainly not a high end holster.


Their closeouts run for about $70 with their exotic skins going for about $300. I was referring to the ones towards the high end of their product. Mainly I use High Noon as a baseline because I use cheaper holsters for the most part. The most expensive holster I bought was a whole M9 SERPA set for about $130 before I went overseas. The issued holster was horrendous.

TennJed
November 4, 2012, 04:44 PM
Excuse my ignorance but are we talking about the metal clips use in. Lot of IWB holster. If so what is the non novice way to carry IWB? I have never liked the snaps that go over the belt (I do not always were a belt) The clip seems more than secure to me (as long as it is a better quality IWB holster)

9mmepiphany
November 4, 2012, 05:34 PM
I would say that part of carrying a pistol is wearing a belt...a good belt. when you don't, you are really compromising your security and ability to deploy the gun quickly

Sam1911
November 4, 2012, 05:45 PM
I'd have to agree that a belt is just about as important as a good holster to carrying a gun securely. So if you don't have a good belt, fix that before you bother to upgrade your holster.

Then look for a holster that has some secure attachment points spread as wide as possible to keep the gun stable and prevent it from rolling fore and aft.

9mmepiphany
November 4, 2012, 06:39 PM
If so what is the non novice way to carry IWB?
Then look for a holster that has some secure attachment points spread as wide as possible to keep the gun stable and prevent it from rolling fore and aft.

This is like what I started with...my first good holster, it was a factory second (flaw on the holstermouth band) for $12. It is a classic Summer Special, designed by Bruce
Nelson and first produced by Milt Sparks. The pictured one is by Delfatti

http://www.delfatti.com/photos/photos/113.JPG

This is something like what Sam is talking about. This is a Milt Sparks VM II

http://home.comcast.net/~leonardsa/VMII.jpg

redbeardsong
November 4, 2012, 06:50 PM
I cringe when I see people buying the cheap nylon holsters to carry their gun. They don't hold the gun securely and they often offer little rigidity to prevent something from getting in the trigger guard.

9mmepiphany
November 4, 2012, 07:08 PM
Many also don't offer the clearance needed at the root of the trigger guard to establish a Master Grip before starting a draw

Frank Ettin
November 4, 2012, 11:28 PM
I also like a quality leather holster and good stout belt. For IWB use I favor the Milt Sparks Versa Max 2.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/fiddletown_2006/Holster%20CCW/IMG_4998_2_2.jpg

And I find the snaps work very well.

Here I'm wearing a VM with an H&K P7M8 --

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/fiddletown_2006/Holster%20CCW/IMG_0295a_2-1.jpg

TarDevil
November 8, 2012, 12:46 PM
I don't carry with a nylon holster. I've bought several... from LGS and for various reasons.

I've also never seen a tuckable holster that doesn't use a clip. If any of you know of one, please advise me.

This post is about a resource for improving IWB holsters that otherwise may be inadequate due to poorly made belt clips.

ForumSurfer
November 8, 2012, 01:11 PM
Belts and holsters...without quality vesions of both you have something that doesn't work. Don't believe me, go shoot IDPA or take a course. You'll fumble draws or lose your pants or both. Quality doesn't always equal over the top pricing. But don't expect to pay $25-$35 bargain bin uncle mike prices, either. Sometimes clips work, other times a leather loop works. It just all depends on your physical build, lifestyle, what you carry and where you carry it. Feel free to PM me and I can give you some great holster and belt makers right here in NC.

The ONLY thing I ever had a nylon holster for was something that I couldn't find a good holster for...but a good friend recently hooked me up with a remedy. It's just for a 22 for woods and plinking carry, but that annoying nylon holster was a pain and it just plain sucked.

Nylon holster was generic...this one rides at the height I want, the cant I want, the tension level I want, the sweat shield aggressively cut like I want and it actually does a dang fine job of holding the gun up.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p188/johnnnyhgmail/holster_review/901B8BFA-785E-4B9F-B69C-74D2558D7B06-4803-000004FAC050BD8C.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p188/johnnnyhgmail/holster_review/F71CCC0F-C95C-47AF-B06C-F4F9E07BB6E1-4803-000004FAD4F88BCF.jpg

There is NO WAY you'll catch me using a generic nylon holster for anything even remotely that I need to depend on. Not when there are so many affordable and custom options out there.

ForumSurfer
November 8, 2012, 01:15 PM
And many makers offer you a tuckable version without the metal clip.

http://www.sideguardholsters.com/holsters/tucksnap.jpg

http://www.sideguardholsters.com/holsters/TuckSnap.htm

Sam1911
November 8, 2012, 01:33 PM
My favorite by far is this one that member Joel made for me early in his holster-making career:

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/sam1911/0910110025-1.jpg

VERY tuckable. Only the straps show when I've got a thin dress shirt tucked in around the gun.

TarDevil
November 8, 2012, 01:54 PM
VERY happy to be corrected! Great looking holster!
I still can't find one for my SR9c.

JTQ
November 8, 2012, 02:50 PM
More tuckables without clips

Garrett Industries. They have other models that are tuckable without clips.
http://garrettindustries.mybigcommerce.com/silent-thunder-iwb-with-tuckable-belt-loops/

Aholster. EDIT - my error, this holster has a wraparound clip, but it is a clip.
http://shop.aholster.com/product.sc;jsessionid=9DDFBCF4BE2793587EE71107CDEFB79D.qscstrfrnt05?productId=4&categoryId=1

Mitch Rosen has a couple
http://www.mitchrosen.com/product_line/product_line.html

Raven Concealment has a couple of tuckable loop models.
http://www.ravenconcealment.com/accessories/iwb-modular-accessories/iwb-eclipse-modular-accessories-iwb-tuckable-soft-loops

Skribs
November 8, 2012, 03:06 PM
I personally have been using the clips because I've been burned by one of the loop ones before. It was supposed to be one where I could pull off the loop and then undo the screw to adjust the size of the belt loop (a blade-tech "pull the dot"). The problem is, one of the loops was so securely attached to the screw head that I literally couldn't budge it off of the screw.

Currently I'm using a Comp-Tac Infidel with the Shirt Tucker Strut. It's a clip, but it actually holds the gun fairly securely. As I'm moving to a new carry platform, I'm open to new options.

mdauben
November 8, 2012, 04:24 PM
Clips are cheap. Not everyone can afford a $70-$200 leather holster for every firearm they carry.
I've got a couple of good leather holsters that cost less than $50 with no clips. Heck if you are a Glock user, you can buy their plastic belt slide for less than $20! Looking at the $50-100 range there are even more good leather and kydex offerings.

Like some of the previous posters, it's not a matter of elitism, I just don't trust belt clips. I seen them fail too many times to trust a firearm with them.

TarDevil
November 8, 2012, 05:00 PM
Ok, I get it! :D There are tuckable loop holsters! Comfort might be an issue with some, others have loops attached to what amounts to a clip, and variety remains limited.

MY POINT WAS...

... in the nylon holsters I've purchased, the metal clips can make an otherwise leather holster more secure.

Carry on, folks! :)

Edited to add... I totally trust my Crossbreed and it's clips! (Thanks, dbp!!)

9mmepiphany
November 8, 2012, 05:10 PM
Ok, I get it! :D There are tuckable loop holsters! Comfort might be an issue with some, others have loops attached to what amounts to a clip, and variety remains limited.

MY POINT WAS...

... in the nylon holsters I've purchased, the metal clips can make an otherwise leather holster more secure.

Carry on, folks! :)

Edited to add... I totally trust my Crossbreed and it's clips! (Thanks, dbp!!)
I thought your point was pretty clear...I think folks were posting that their personal experience has shown/proven otherwise.

I don't think anyone was trying to change your mind, they were just offering a differing view for readers who might not have the experience to know the difference

Skribs
November 8, 2012, 05:20 PM
Hmmm...just curious, but to those saying that clips are bad, would you also say the same of a paddle?

It seems that belt loops seem to be the common denominator in the "good" holsters you have been describing.

TylerDog
November 8, 2012, 05:23 PM
Here in Colorado most places I am aware of wont even let you participate in training for a CCW with a nylon holster; they're a bad idea.

ClickClickD'oh
November 8, 2012, 05:38 PM
I still can't find one for my SR9c.

Sideguard makes their whole product line for the SR9C. A couple weeks wait, sub $100 and completely worth it in every way. I use one of their double tuck snaps for IDPA.

9mmepiphany
November 8, 2012, 08:11 PM
Hmmm...just curious, but to those saying that clips are bad, would you also say the same of a paddle?.
Let me refer you to this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=683605)

Skribs
November 8, 2012, 09:11 PM
I was more looking for a comparison of why belt clips are a bad idea, but a paddle is a good idea, when both are so easy to take on and off. Why is a paddle holster in the same category as belt loops?

9mmepiphany
November 9, 2012, 12:30 AM
Modern well designed paddle holsters aren't as easy to take off as you may think. The paddle holsters I use regularly are actually harder to remove than a holster using loops/tunnels to attach to the belt.

The advantage of a paddle over a clip is how far apart the retention clips/lips/ledges are located on the paddle. It is much easier to level a single point clip off a belt...especially given it's inherent play on most belts

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