Cheap surplus guns - a thing of the past?


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monotonous_iterancy
November 1, 2012, 07:17 PM
I've read about the days when M1 carbines, Mausers, Enfields, Garands and things like that were relatively cheap. I've also read about how just 15 or 20 years ago you could buy a new out-of-the-box quality SKS for like $70. And Mosins were even cheaper. These days though, SKS's will run about $350 in the same condition, and even mosins are edging up in price, and from what I can see, they're pretty much the last cheap surplus rifles.

Are those days about over? As a young and fairly new hobbyist, that sounds like a dream to me, and I feel like I'm living around the time of the last wave of it.

Could there still be any of those over looked guns that have a value far beyond their price tag?

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m1dbob1944
November 1, 2012, 07:32 PM
Be patient. As more Cetme rifles and other guns loose their favor, there will be more on the market. Remember it is supply and demand. If Obama is voted out, hopefully, there will be more imports of old surplus rifles. Remember, the Obama admistration banned a container ship from Korea loaded with surplus M1's .45's and other goodies. Vote and hang in there.

oneounceload
November 1, 2012, 08:09 PM
Try taking those numbers from yesteryear and running them through an inflation calculator - you'd be surprised just how cheap guns are today

BTW - 20 years ago I could buy all the Steyr AUGS I could want for $450 - including the LH conversions; now they're over 2500 - so what? That was then, this is now

Keep everything relative and you'll see that today's prices are ASTRONOMICALLY cheaper than guns from yesteryear

mnrivrat
November 1, 2012, 08:11 PM
The stockpile of old surplus arms around the world is likely still significant. The future issues will be whether your government will allow them to be imported .

The cheap SKS rifles, AK-47 type rifles along with ammo for them , and sub $100 Broomhandle Mausers were all choked off by the Clinton administration. A stroke of the pen and your present becomes the good old days of the future.

Naybor
November 1, 2012, 08:18 PM
Guns Magazine has their 1960 issues digitized and placed on the net.

Here is the January 1960 issue:

http://www.gunsmagazine.com/1960issues/G0160.pdf

I do like to go back and dream, don't you?

mr.trooper
November 1, 2012, 08:26 PM
Wha?

Enfields, Mausers, Carcanos, and MAS rifles can still be had in the $2xx range in good shape. Sure, the days of $75 SKS are gone, but there are still a lot of awesome milsurp bargains. The difference is dealers arent shoving them in your face.

Just got a pristine Gibbs Rifle Co Enfield carbine for $200 flat at a gun show 3 days ago. Got A Turk Mauser for $150 on the haggle rack at a local shop a few months ago.

Steyr M95s and Russian Mosins are still $100. Chinese mosins can be had for under that.

You just need to LOOK for the deals.

barnbwt
November 1, 2012, 08:39 PM
There still are (and will be) cheap surplus guns, but it will be because of lack of market demand as opposed to infinite supply. Case in point: I just picked up a Steyr M95 carbine for ~100$. Straight pull bolt action similar to a modern day Blaser, and infinitely better build quality than a (more expensive) Mosin. However, the 8x56R ammo they eat is very odd, and only made by a handful of folks now, so they sit on racks gathering dust. I don't think it will be as easy as "Cheap Gun + Cheap Ammo = Duh" ever again.

I also think importers will be wiser in the future and not dump huge boatloads of surplus at the same time, so they can milk their investment more prudently. I'm thinking of that dude who bought up all the unsold Mateba Auto-revolvers in the mid 2000's for like 700$ a gun, and sells them every couple months at +3000$ now. This is especially likely since there are fewer and fewer stockpiles of guns left around, and they know it.

But who knows; maybe Soviet guns are like oil. We keep thinking we're at the Peak, but then fracking or whatever gets invented and all bets are off again. Here's to some Rusky uncovering the warehouse where they kept the other half of the Mosins ,SVTs, AKs, and PPSHs ;)

TCB

Steyr M95s and Russian Mosins are still $100.
^^whoa, cheap minds must think alike :)

PS: War guns from silver-medallist countries will always go for cheap (Germany excluded, of course). M95s, Carcanos, MAS, Hakims, K31s and numerous other "unworthy" rifles often get passed up by the Red-Blooded American for some ratty Garand, just because they didn't "win the war" :rolleyes:. The French guns get the worst of it ("only dropped once, heh heh"), despite being fantastic arms in their own right (from a country that did fight valiantly)

USAF_Vet
November 1, 2012, 08:41 PM
Between then and now, legislation was passed that made guns harder to sell. If I could still walk into the mom and pop hardware store in town and pick a Mauser or Enfield out if an oak barrel like my dad and grandpa could, I think prices would be be a little lower than they are today. But since buying and selling guns has become more regulated, there is a cost associated with those regulations, and we the buyer bear the brunt of those costs.

Remember that on Tuesday, we have the honor and privilege of paying the government to infringe in our right to keep and bear arms.

rondog
November 1, 2012, 08:46 PM
Back in the 60's when you could get a surplus Colt M1911A1 from the DCM for $17.50, that was actually quite a bit of money back then. Don't sound like much now.

Clark
November 1, 2012, 09:17 PM
I own ~ 100 Mausers.

I got my first in 1965.

The prices for Mausers in American Rifleman in 1965 were not as good at Shotgun News in 2000.

I calculate that most guns and guitars appreciated at 3% compounded over the last 10 years, 20 years, 40 years, and 80 years.

There are exceptions:
The Colt SAA did better.
The Mosberg bolt actions did worse.

Meanwhile someone I know put $6k into Microsoft stock and by 2000 it was worth $2M.

I am not in the gun biz.
If there were a gun show every day like there is once a month, I could have made far more just buying and selling like a day trader at gun shows, than I have in the many ways I have sold my work as an engineer.

But I keep telling myself I am not in the gun biz.
One of my rules is to never buy a gun because it is such a good deal.
Only buy guns I really wanted.
I break my own rules sometimes.
Every $20 brake action shotgun seems to follow me home and get converted into a rifle.

hso
November 1, 2012, 09:22 PM
Are those days about over?

Yep, that boat sailed a few years ago.

mbt2001
November 1, 2012, 09:51 PM
Actually if you adjust for inflation and so forth guns are cheaper now than ever. Take gun prices in the 1950s and compare them to today then take the price of a car / house / gas / or a movie ticket. Guns have done really well.

CZguy
November 1, 2012, 10:43 PM
You are absolutely correct.

I bought my first Mauser out of a barrel for $25.00. What everyone missed is how hard I had to work making 80 cents an hour to buy it.

bhhacker
November 1, 2012, 11:49 PM
Im just sad that there are no gun shows where i live. :( Sometimes I miss Texas

Paul7
November 2, 2012, 12:06 AM
Guns Magazine has their 1960 issues digitized and placed on the net.

Here is the January 1960 issue:

http://www.gunsmagazine.com/1960issues/G0160.pdf

I do like to go back and dream, don't you?
Did you see the article on how to bubba an Enfield 30.06 into a 'sporter'?

Owen Sparks
November 2, 2012, 12:12 AM
The days of military surplus rifles is about over. All modern militaries issue select fire rifles that are forbidden to commoners.

TAKtical
November 2, 2012, 12:23 AM
Never thought I'd start seeing mosins going for $250+

fanchisimo
November 2, 2012, 01:11 AM
I took some of the amounts in this thread, and ran them through 3 different inflation calculators, but the numbers for current day don't match up. Not even close. It seems like even with the added regulations, the prices are a lot higher even with adjusted inflation so inflation doesn't seem to be the issue. Is the demand really that much higher now? I understand the Anti-2A president but sheesh.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
$70(1992) - $110.51(2011) $450(1992) - $710.45(2011) $17.50(1960) - $131.06(2011)

http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
$70(1992) - $115.46(2012) $450(1992) - $742.22(2012) $17.50 (1960) - $136.81(2012)

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
$70(1992) - $115.46(2012) $450(1992) - $742.22(2012) $17.50(1960) - $136.81(2012)

captain awesome
November 2, 2012, 02:06 AM
I hope that's not it. Haven't had the chance to take advantage of it enough.

swiftak
November 2, 2012, 06:43 AM
Notice how many articles there was compared to ads.

mgkdrgn
November 2, 2012, 07:42 AM
Back in the 60's when you could get a surplus Colt M1911A1 from the DCM for $17.50, that was actually quite a bit of money back then. Don't sound like much now.
Lets see ... back in 1960 my dad had a pretty good job with the Soil Conservation service ... and made $5300 .... A YEAR.

Sav .250
November 2, 2012, 08:00 AM
Supply and demand..........

evan price
November 2, 2012, 10:27 AM
Bear in mind that 50 years ago pretty much every military modernized to automatic weapons and away from bolt action rifles. With the ATF "Sporting Purposes" rule in effect and "Once a machine gun always a machine gun" there is about zero chance of them being imported except as torch-cut demilled parts kits. All the old Mausers and Enfields and ETC. are pretty much out of the system. You want C&R nowadays there's pretty much only Mosin Nagants left. The Soviets have warehouses full of them still, heck, they still have WWI horse drawn artillery cached.

Oh, there still may be the odd depot or training brigade with a closet full of antiques, and they will still dribble in once in a while. But the days of dumpsters full of Mausers and Carcanos and Enfields are not coming back.

As to pistols- most of the rest of the world considers handguns to be a privelage of the military, police and elites only and they destroy them rather than sell them. Even Australia recently melted down their snub-nosed Smith & Wesson "K" frame revolvers rather than trade them in when they modernized the police and detectives.

valnar
November 2, 2012, 01:06 PM
No matter what I think of my surplus guns, I won't sell them now, even if I run out of surplus ammo. It's too bad the next generation won't be able to get them.

Gun Master
November 2, 2012, 02:16 PM
In 1989 I bought a new Norinco SKS in the box at a gun show for $ 167. I had not been fooling with guns for a few years, and was suprised to see a new "high powered" military semi auto rifle for less than $200. Now an old "beat up" yougo SKS sells for almost $300. The "good old days" keep changing.

wojownik
November 2, 2012, 02:29 PM
Would it be correct in thinking that there have been two big "reverse bubbles" of milsurps flooding the market with relatively low pricing... around the 1960s, and then the 1990s through early 2000s (the latter bubble in large part fueled with the fall of the combloc).

There are still some ... OK .... milsurp deals out there - the Walther P1/P38, Mosins, Yugo and Romanian Tokarev pistols. But, the OP is right, the pickings are a lot slimmer and the prices higher than several years ago. I was thinking last week that I have collected too much "stuff" over the past 15 years or so ... but then when I go through everything, I realize that I'll likely never see some of this stuff again, at the prices I bought them at, if at all.

You're best bet IMHO for US milsurp - at least M1 Garands - is the Civilian Marksmanship Program. Maybe more M1 Carbines may also come through the program, but I'm not overly optimistic. They have been a great source for me over the years for Garands, 1903s and M1 Carbines.

monotonous_iterancy
November 2, 2012, 04:44 PM
I think we're in the last wave of Garands aren't we?

Capybara
November 2, 2012, 04:49 PM
I just picked up a Turk M1903 Mauser this morning. Not great, but good condition with a nice bayonet for $250.00. Still seems relatively cheap to me.

bainter1212
November 2, 2012, 05:06 PM
I bought a real nice Turk Mauser in 2001 from Big 5 for $50. So no $250 sounds a bit steep to me.

itchy1
November 3, 2012, 07:46 AM
In my opinion, the price for surplus guns in particular has increased at a faster pace than guns in general--at least the ones I'm interested in. The $99 SKS that I bought back in 2003 is now $300-350. Makarovs, Tokarevs, CZ 52, etc. have all more than doubled in price in a relatively short time. They are simply not the bargain that they used to be regardless of which inflation calculator you use. Not only is it harder to pay the added price, it's harder to justify buying many of these guns when you can get other guns that are more refined for just a little more $$$. Makarovs are great pistols but for about $50-100 more you can get a nice S&W 5906 in a more powerful and practical caliber. When SKS's were 1/4 the price of a used mini14/30 they were a steal. Now they are closer to being 2/3 the price. I would rather pay the extra money for the mini. For me, the incentive is gone. I'm not knocking surplus guns, I just think that the prices have increased so much that there are other alternatives I'd rather have for a little more money.

Gun Master
November 3, 2012, 02:24 PM
My 2nd handgun, bought in or about 1960, was a VG condition, .30 cal.(7.62 mm bottlenecked) DWM Luger. Very nice gun! I paid $32.50 for it !!! That's about the price for a box of ammo today. Those were the good old days. :cool:

SharpsDressedMan
November 3, 2012, 02:39 PM
If it hasn't gone up 10 times since 1972, then it is still cheap.

Sam1911
November 3, 2012, 03:06 PM
Someone asked a while back why Mosins were so universal these days, and so "loved" as a must-have-at-least-one kind of rifle. I said:

They're about the last gasp of the surplus rifle market. While you can still find a few Czech and Yugo Mausers for not too much if you know what rock to turn over, the Krags, and Springfields, 1903s/'03A3s, P.14s, Enfields, K98s, Carcanos, Arisaka, and even K-31 are all somewhere between scarce and gone. Even Garands and M1 Carbines have been coming through the CMP in fits and starts -- like an engine running on the last fumes in the tank.

Weapons technology has moved on, the armories aren't making any more of these, and eventually they will all be bought up.

And that trend happens to collide with the huge growth of gunnuttyness that has overtaken large segments of the population in the last 10-15 years. There's more of "us" now than ever, and we all want a piece of that legendary good old surplus stash -- before they're all gone!

Supply and demand. Folks used to say, "you'd better grab one of those Enfields while they're cheap. They're ugly, but someday you'll wish you could still find a cheap Enfield." Now, all that's left is Mosin-Nagants. Still cheap, because the Soviets and their satellite states made more of them than they did loaves of bread for their people. Still about as good as ever -- which isn't terrific compared to the competition, but sure is better than most people THINK. But now we all have the lesson of eventual scarcity to nag us into buying one (or a dozen) before they're all finally gone.

As others said, no country is building vast numbers of bolt-action or single-shot rifles for their military any more. The guns that are being built and issued as primary battle weapons are not the kind of guns that we're likely to ever see as lawful imports for sale to US citizens.

The good news is that the guns that were imported as surplus for decades are still out there. You'll just have to be willing to pay more than the next enthusiast if you want to own one.

SilentScream
November 3, 2012, 03:06 PM
I think to a certain extent the "collectors" killed some of the deals one was likely to find. But I think the biggest factor is that there is only a finite amount of mausers, SMLEs, M1's tokarevs etc. and once they're gone, they're gone, Though you'll likely see them pop up as these old guys die of and relatives that aren't particularly gun savvy put them up for sale.

Sam1911
November 3, 2012, 03:18 PM
But I think the biggest factor is that there is only a finite amount of mausers, SMLEs, M1's tokarevs etc. and once they're gone, they're gone, Though you'll likely see them pop up as these old guys die of and relatives that aren't particularly gun savvy put them up for sale.

And that's really the whole point. There aren't vastly fewer Mausers, Enfields, Garands, Carbines, Krags, etc. in the world now than there were in olden days (though probably 50% of what were produced in total were indeed destroyed or lost or worn out and discarded, or "sporterized") but those which were made available to the civilian buyer have almost all been sold off.

They still exist, they just aren't the unwanted waste commodity they once were, before gun nuts realized what a value they represented. We don't mourn that they are GONE. We mourn that they aren't available by the barrel-full, for less than the cost of a nice meal in a restaurant.

Gun Master
November 3, 2012, 03:21 PM
Also in the early 1960's , I traded an old model Stevens double barrell 12 ga., with the firing pins hanging up ,but in otherwise "good" condition, along with a $5 Bowie Knife, for a Walther P-38 , WWII - "cyq" code, 9mm in VG Plus condition. I still have it !!!!:D:D:D I sure miss my WWII Mauser K-43 8mm semi auto.http://sad

wally
November 3, 2012, 03:38 PM
Try taking those numbers from yesteryear and running them through an inflation calculator - you'd be surprised just how cheap guns are today


Ammo too. Saw some old hunting mags from the 50's and surplus .45ACP was like $25/100

Unless the ad was a misprint and should have said $25/1000 that was a lot of money back than.

Ignition Override
November 3, 2012, 04:39 PM
Somebody already asked about inflation.
With the dollar's value included, are typical SKS prices much higher than what was paid in '03, '95 etc?

How about the CMP Service Grade Garands?

jim243
November 3, 2012, 06:15 PM
The "good old days" keep changing.


Depends on if you are the seller or the buyer.

Jim

Gun Master
November 3, 2012, 08:13 PM
Ah,so! You have gun you rike to buy or tlade? You are so right bro' .:D

Millwright
November 3, 2012, 08:56 PM
A lot depends upon the pending election ! If/once we get the pendulum swinging conservative the gun community needs must push like hell ! There's a lot of WW2 era arms still out there and soon coming on market. By the same token why shouldn't superceded versions of the 5.56mm M-16 series be available to the public ? Or even M-4s " ? I don't see the auto/semi sear issue as posing a problem - unless of course - if government "creates" one ! >MW

tyeo098
November 3, 2012, 09:10 PM
I'd like to see a surplus of 'nam era M16A1 'parts kits'
That would be awesome.

Sure would drive down these ridiculous AR-15 prices.

Sam1911
November 3, 2012, 09:11 PM
A lot depends upon the pending election ! If/once we get the pendulum swinging conservative the gun community needs must push like hell ! There's a lot of WW2 era arms still out there and soon coming on market.Really? There are "a few" M1 Garands and M1 Carbines still overseas which might come home but reports are they'd be graded pretty poor and might not be worth close to what they'd have to sell for to make re-importing them worthwhile. Do you know of other sources that are "soon coming?" What guns? From where?

The Brits aren't still making Enfields for their troops. The Germans aren't still making Mausers in military quantities. We aren't building more Krags, Springfields, '03A3s, Garands, and M1 Carbines. The last Carcanos were built during WWII -- the last Mosin-Nagants were made in the late '40s. And so on.

There will continue to be a few pockets of surplussed rifles (mostly M-Ns, no doubt) that are released from warehouses in tucked away pockets of the world, but in an ever more sporadic and dwindling numbers. The production of this TYPE of military weapon has stopped and won't return.

By the same token why shouldn't superceded versions of the 5.56mm M-16 series be available to the public ? Or even M-4s " ? I don't see the auto/semi sear issue as posing a problem - unless of course - if government "creates" one ! >MWThe government created an "issue" with selling surplussed full-auto weapons -- or weapons that were EVER full-auto -- decades ago and the thought that that "issue" might go away someday is a fond but far distant dream only a few of us hold any faith that even our grand kids will ever live to see.

No M16s, no M-4s, no M-14s (even though few were ever full-auto capable anyway) ... heck, they won't even sell surplus handguns to citizens.

evan price
November 3, 2012, 09:16 PM
@ millwright...
Atf says once a machinegun always a machinegun. So m4 and m16 no matter what are going to captain crunch.

Gun Master
November 3, 2012, 09:50 PM
Never liked AR-15 or M-16's for two main reasons : 1) Didn't like shooting a little .22 as opposed to a .30 cal. bullet for self defense & 2) Didn't like the 'Nam malfunctions I heard about. I've always liked the M-14 , but never was able to afford one. Don't mean to start any arguements, and I've heard a lot of reasons the 15's & 16's are reliable, etc. Each man or woman to their own poison (or coffee). I wouldn't throw one in the trash, if somebody gave me one.;):)

Sam1911
November 3, 2012, 09:52 PM
Never liked AR-15 or M-16's for two main reasons That's fine. But it really doesn't speak to the topic at hand.

Mike OTDP
November 3, 2012, 11:08 PM
The only potential major stocks I can think of would be WW2 pistols captured by the Soviet Army.

monotonous_iterancy
November 4, 2012, 12:18 AM
So what will the future look like? Just commercially produced firearms, and an occasional surplus rifle being sold for like $500?

CZguy
November 4, 2012, 01:00 AM
Well..............it sure was fun while it lasted.

FIVETWOSEVEN
November 4, 2012, 02:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6EsCle4ooM0

There are still crates of weapons out there. Too bad those will never see US hands...

Sam1911
November 4, 2012, 06:12 AM
So what will the future look like? Just commercially produced firearms, and an occasional surplus rifle being sold for like $500?Certainly so, eventually that's inevitable.

The only equivalents to military surplus that are likely to be available in the future are modern-produced variations of military rifles built to conform to US law for civilian firearms. That means rifles built (or to some extent "rebuilt") by companies for commercial sale. Items made to military spec, since the last quarter of the 20th century, are not lawful for sale to US civilians. Hence, no more military surplus guns.

It is possible that foreign military sidearms may still be surplussed out and lawfully imported in the future, as they rarely have the capacity for automatic fire. But that's by no means a sure thing considering how many agreements, executive orders, import laws, and trade agreements have to be worked around.

mf-dif
November 4, 2012, 09:23 AM
Still a handful of surplus guns out there just a diff selection...but the ammo $$ is creeping up on them.

$100 bin: Styers, Mosin 91/30, Nagant Revolver

$150-200 bin: Type 53s, Toks and Maks

$250-300 bin: New batch of Norinco SKS and post war Walther P38s

Prince Yamato
November 4, 2012, 10:39 AM
I think you'll see mainly handguns imported in the next 20 or so years. The rifle days are long gone. You'll get parts kits.

MAKster
November 4, 2012, 10:46 AM
It's not the end of the world The surplus guns haven't disappeared. They're just all moving into the individual market. You'll still be able to buy mausers and garands but it will be from an individual seller and not an importer.

m1dbob1944
November 5, 2012, 12:44 AM
+1. Ver well stated

Ignition Override
November 5, 2012, 01:03 AM
Is there a fair chance that more Norincos could be imported from somewhere besides the PRC? I did not know that imported guns might be allowed from China since the Clinton ban-if this is possible.

Are many more Makarov-caliber handguns still available in eastern Europe for export to the US?

Trent
November 5, 2012, 09:23 AM
Y'all seem to be missing the point.

We still have "cheap surplus guns" but since the world moved mainly to machineguns, subguns, and assault rifles post WW-II, they're just in a different form.

Now they come in parts kits form and "some assembly is required."

:)

Owen Sparks
November 5, 2012, 10:43 AM
Isn't it true that kits can no longer come with a barrel?

Sam1911
November 5, 2012, 11:10 AM
Yes, that is true.

Zoogster
November 5, 2012, 11:44 AM
Tons of surplus out there. It is all just select-fire now because after WW2 a switch to use semi-auto or selectve fire became standard, (a global trend with platforms since WW1).
That switch is forbidden to commoners, and so all those inexpensive guns are out of your grasp.
They are there though.


Additionally now many governments around the world and organizations at an international level encourage destruction of arms when they are replaced by something else in military and police forces. Rather than passing them on like in prior generations.
Our own government has in fact been a big player in that regard for many years both domestically and abroad.




There is tons of AK-47s phased out of use out there, they would likely be under $200 if you could purchase them in stock format from surplus, no labor involved in unpacking, disassembly, converting etc. There was a lot of m14s. Massive quantity of FALs. The list goes on and on.
In Libya they just uncovered a big cache or practically new STG 44s, those would be in your local gun store if not for laws preventing you from having that almost 70 year old rifle.
The surplus market would be large and thriving if you were not forbidden from owning select fire weapons.
They would be just as inexpensive as in the old days (and in many cases even less expensive), adjusted for inflation. You just would have semi-auto/select fire guns instead of bolt actions.
By being legislatively stuck in the stone age...surplus has passed you by.

But it is certainly not because there is no dirt cheap surplus out there waiting.

P5 Guy
November 5, 2012, 12:46 PM
So, we need to over turn the Federal gun control laws, and get busy importing those guns with selector switches!

Kiln
November 5, 2012, 04:22 PM
Part of the issue is that the old military surplus guns that you could find everywhere were bolt actions and semi automatics. Now most military surplus weapons are select fire, which makes them harder to import, requiring modifications to the receivers just to bring them in.

The days of the $120 rifle are gone excluding Mosins, even good examples of those are beginning to rise in price.

m1dbob1944
November 6, 2012, 12:47 AM
@ millwright...
Atf says once a machinegun always a machinegun. So m4 and m16 no matter what are going to captain crunch.
True, that is AFT policy. However, remember how PTR got its start? Taking G-3's, making semi receivers. Could create more cottage industries. Look at SMG guns.com, making a semi auto FG-42. Something to think about.

Ignition Override
November 6, 2012, 01:04 AM
The lack of surplus .303 ammo-and if found, priced similar to reloadable Prvi .303-seems to have limited demand for Enfield rifles in the original configurations. Maybe its also their appearance.

Aren't ammo prices a major factor for many people who might want their first surplus rifle (or consider selling), if we exclude Mosin Nagants?

m1dbob1944
November 7, 2012, 12:15 AM
The lack of surplus .303 ammo-and if found, priced similar to reloadable Prvi .303-seems to have limited demand for Enfield rifles in the original configurations. Maybe its also their appearance.

Aren't ammo prices a major factor for many people who might want their first surplus rifle (or consider selling), if we exclude Mosin Nagants?
People have fireformed American brass for foreign guns. My dad did this with .284 Winchester to fit a k-31 Schmit-Ruben. Many guys resized 30'06 into 8mm. Where there is a will...

Pronghorn19
November 7, 2012, 11:47 PM
With the huge sales of rifles/shotguns/handguns what has occurred over the past 110ish years, there is a huge supply of old used firearms at a great value. I just picked up a 1904 patent stevens 520 pump for $120 at cabelas. Deals are out there, and will continue to be out there. The name of the game has just changed. :)

LAK
November 8, 2012, 08:52 AM
No point in repeating what others have already pointed out. I will say though that with surplus guns, simply do not pass up a really good buy when you see one. As myself, many others on this board and elsewhere will tell you stories about what they passed up in times long gone and regretted later.

While you probably will not see any more $70 rifles etc largely because of the dollar's decline, there will likely be some relatively cheap surplus guns come along as supply and availability provide. Save your money - have cash on hand - do not wait to see them appear and then fret about finding the money to buy them.

Study the types, learn as much as you can in order to know what is a good buy, decide what you want, and bide your time.

In addition to local classifieds etc, visits the dealers and pawn shops regularly and see what's in the offing. Sooner or later you'll score something(s) good.

DaisyCutter
November 8, 2012, 12:08 PM
I recall the day I turned my nose up at a $200 M-1 carbine. I bought a cherry $129 Russian SKS. Still have the SKS, though I haven't shot it in a decade.

Wish I'd a bought more than 1 of the $49.95 Russian M44s. I don't know what I'd do with 'em, but I'd never pay the $200 people expect for a M44 today.

SilentScream
November 8, 2012, 12:32 PM
I still don't regret buying that $150.00 Romanian SKS over the Mini14 the counter guy was trying to hard sell me on.

m1dbob1944
November 12, 2012, 07:12 PM
I still don't regret buying that $150.00 Romanian SKS over the Mini14 the counter guy was trying to hard sell me on.
There were several that got away. However, the one that didn't; prior to getting married, I bouthgt an 8mm FN-49 for $180.No regrets on that either. Love that rifle

leadcounsel
November 12, 2012, 07:38 PM
Well, I have enjoyed the C&R guns for the last decade. Sadly it's all coming to an end.

I am VERY pessimistic about the importation of guns and ammo going forward after the election. Dark days ahead for gun owners.

Jaxondog
November 12, 2012, 09:32 PM
In the mid '80s you could buy an SKS at Rose's in Durham NC for $50. Yes I would say those day's are gone for good.

oneounceload
November 12, 2012, 09:35 PM
Well, I have enjoyed the C&R guns for the last decade. Sadly it's all coming to an end.

I am VERY pessimistic about the importation of guns and ammo going forward after the election. Dark days ahead for gun owners.

What does C&R and importation have to do with things? C&R is NOT totally about imported guns

1911fan
November 12, 2012, 09:38 PM
I don't know how things are "relatively" cheaper nowadays.

That $17.50 .45 represented 17 1/2 hours work @ the $1.00/hr minimun wage in 1960.

17 1/2 hours work at the current minimum wage of $8.25/hr will gross you $144.375.

I haven't seen a shootable .45 for TWICE that price in years.

ed

monotonous_iterancy
November 12, 2012, 09:44 PM
This is why when I shop for a new gun, I look at surplus. I feel fairly confident that so long as a commercial firearms sells in reasonable numbers, it will always be available. They still make Single Action Armys, they still make 30-30 Winchesters. They don't make M1 Garands anymore.

oneounceload
November 12, 2012, 09:54 PM
That $17.50 .45 represented 17 1/2 hours work @ the $1.00/hr minimun wage in 1960.

17 1/2 hours work at the current minimum wage of $8.25/hr will gross you $144.375.

I haven't seen a shootable .45 for TWICE that price in years.


HUH? Seriously? A sale price of $17.50 has a little more involved than a salary for workers - that salary you extrapolate might be 15% of that $17.50 -marketing, shipping, profit, insurances/taxes, etc. all contribute - and we haven't talked about materials

Maybe you need to look at reality in your numbers

Speedgoat
November 12, 2012, 10:04 PM
I think he was implying that it represented the time that the 'buyer' worked to buy said .45. I occasionally at work will think that way to help me get through the day.

oneounceload
November 12, 2012, 10:21 PM
Again, it doesn't represent reality and everything involved
in 1979I bought a new Chevy pick up for 5400........that same truck today is pushing over 45000, and that is after the union-backed gov't buyout

it is always an apples to sheetrock comparison

1911fan
November 13, 2012, 02:27 AM
Speedgoat is correct.

The $17.50 represents the 17 1/2 hours I (the buyer) have to work at the $1.00/hr minimum wage for 1960 to buy the gun.

This, too, is relative:

When I got home from the Army in 1973, they were having a gas crisis. Seems that gas had gone from 29-31 cents/gal to over 35 cents. Minimum wage in 1973 was $1.60/hr.

One hour's work would buy over four and a half gallons of gasoline.

Where I live now, gas is WELL over $3.50/gal. One hour's work at $8.25/hr minimum wage will buy right about two and a third gallons.

Apples to apples, one hour's work at minimum wage will buy a little over HALF the gas it would buy forty years ago.

Oneounceload--more apples to apples:

That pickup you bought for $5400 in 1979 represented 1862 hours of work @ $2.60/hr, min wage that year. The same model pickup selling for $45k represents 5454.5454 hours @ $8.25, THREE TIMES the hours you would have worked to pay for the thing 35 years ago.

What's not apples to apples is that you're not getting the same truck you got in 1979. 350 ci gas guzzlers and armstrong steering, do-it-yourself transmissions, brakes by Flintstone, wind-wing cab-cooling and AM radios have all been upgraded, and part of the price you pay is for those upgrades.

However, a Remington Rand 1942 mfd. M1911A1 will ALWAYS be a Remington Rand 1942 mfd. M1911A1.

My point here is that we are working harder and harder for less and less--not to mention the ever-increasing tax burden--and cheap surplus firearms are pretty much a thing of the past.

ed

vaupet
November 13, 2012, 03:41 AM
And it won't get any better.
In Europe at least, regular armies and police forces tend not to sell but to destroy their surplus armes, in an effort to keep them of the streets, thus distroing tax payers money.

So surplus armes will disappear in the end.
I personally know someone who assisted in the distruction of 10000 UNISSUED fn49 sniper versions with their scopes.:banghead:

Wanderling
November 13, 2012, 05:44 PM
Speedgoat is correct.

The $17.50 represents the 17 1/2 hours I (the buyer) have to work at the $1.00/hr minimum wage for 1960 to buy the gun.

This, too, is relative:

When I got home from the Army in 1973, they were having a gas crisis. Seems that gas had gone from 29-31 cents/gal to over 35 cents. Minimum wage in 1973 was $1.60/hr.

One hour's work would buy over four and a half gallons of gasoline.

Where I live now, gas is WELL over $3.50/gal. One hour's work at $8.25/hr minimum wage will buy right about two and a third gallons.

Apples to apples, one hour's work at minimum wage will buy a little over HALF the gas it would buy forty years ago.

Oneounceload--more apples to apples:

That pickup you bought for $5400 in 1979 represented 1862 hours of work @ $2.60/hr, min wage that year. The same model pickup selling for $45k represents 5454.5454 hours @ $8.25, THREE TIMES the hours you would have worked to pay for the thing 35 years ago.

What's not apples to apples is that you're not getting the same truck you got in 1979. 350 ci gas guzzlers and armstrong steering, do-it-yourself transmissions, brakes by Flintstone, wind-wing cab-cooling and AM radios have all been upgraded, and part of the price you pay is for those upgrades.

However, a Remington Rand 1942 mfd. M1911A1 will ALWAYS be a Remington Rand 1942 mfd. M1911A1.

My point here is that we are working harder and harder for less and less--not to mention the ever-increasing tax burden--and cheap surplus firearms are pretty much a thing of the past.

ed

And there's been many ok-to-well paying jobs replaced either by some low-tech Chinese ex-farmers living 16 per dorm room, or high-tech Western robots. Plus, the steady devaluation of US dollar ever since Nixon took it off gold standard and the printing presses got busy. So the actual purchasing power for many people has been steadily going down over the decades. Which is why the price of things that can't be cheaply replicated with modern mass production technology is much higher than what the inflation calculator suggests. I.e. they didn't become more expensive - your working hour is worth less (not for everyone, but for many) in real money. Which would've shown up in inflation calculators if these calculated real inflation, and not the government inflation table "adjusted" in the 90s to keep the reported numbers artificially low.

fanchisimo
November 14, 2012, 12:32 AM
http://www.classicfirearms.com/chicomsks

Saw these and it seemed fitting to the subject.

Zoogster
November 14, 2012, 02:16 PM
Now they come in parts kits form and "some assembly is required."

Yeah but not that long ago ATF stopped import of barrels.
A new domestically produced barrel will cost you what the entire surplus gun would have if you could buy it.
Really the only part of any substance you still get is the bolt.
Stocks and fire control parts are inexpensive and easily made domestically. Just look how inexpensive they go down to for AR and AK builds.

Hardly worth the trouble to demill export/import, advertise, and try to sell for profit now.
Especially when the UN will give them extra points for destroying them instead.

Ignition Override
November 15, 2012, 12:54 AM
vaupet/Zoogster and others:

An Australian guy at Gunboards or Surplusrifle has a friend in South Africa.
About two years ago he said that this friend walked into a gun shop, and saw the staff destroying both Brens and Lee-Enfield bolt-action rifles, which are obsolete!

I never knew that African or Asian warlords want bolt-action rifles from WW2.
The SA govt apparently received either UN or British/Euro tax money to destroy them. It's one thing to destroy select-fire AKs, but semi-auto FN 49s or Enfields!? I don't know the words in French or Nederlands, but 'doof', 'dumm' and 'blod' come to mind.
Intelligent use of your hard-earned, highly-taxed Euros....:scrutiny:

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