Need help id'n cool little double Bbl.


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Jim, West PA
November 3, 2012, 06:50 PM
Swapped my .36 no name Italian at a gun show fer this little oddity.
Anyone know what it is ? What it could be worth ?
I think it's .40
Pretty sweet hank o' wood huh?
The fella i traded lied and said he fixed the crack with " 2500 tinsel strength epoxy ".
Fortunately he did lie and i have a clean break that will fix right up, and be invisible, with Acra Glas.


( I'm gonna post 3 reply posts to this so i can get all pics posted. Please don't respond until i'm done. Thanx )

174178
174177

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Jim, West PA
November 3, 2012, 06:51 PM
This is the only identifying mark on the gun.

174179

174180

Jim, West PA
November 3, 2012, 06:52 PM
174181

Check out how ya load 'er.
Unscrew the Bbl, pour powder in, set ball over 'funnel', screw Bbl on over it.
( i think )
If anyone KNOWS the correct proceedure please chime right in.
174182

Jim, West PA
November 3, 2012, 06:54 PM
It was the consenses that the muzzel is designed to accomodate a wrench to unscrew the Bbls.

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kBob
November 3, 2012, 07:41 PM
Belgian belly boomer?

ELG is a belgian proof I believe.

The different sized hammers are interesting.

Set of barreles looking like this has been floating around on GB for a bit, though not sure if those are screw barrels or not.

Now hopefully some one that knows somrthing will chime in

-kBob

Jim, West PA
November 3, 2012, 08:20 PM
Thanx Bob, you led me to this much so far.

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

pohill
November 3, 2012, 08:33 PM
It is Belgian. I have basically the same gun (bottom gun in pic), but your grip/handle is fancier. I haven't unscrewed the barrels yet or fired it. I'm not even sure what caliber it is.
I have fired one other single shot gun (the HERO, 2nd from top) - I put maybe 7 grs of power in the chamber, then a .31 ball, screwed the barrel on and fired it.

,http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF3810-1.jpg

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/a%20a%20site%20belge%20gb.htm

Jim, West PA
November 3, 2012, 08:50 PM
Thanx pohill.
Few questions.
Any idea of age ?
Do you happen to have a Bbl tool that you can post a pic of ?
Would you please elaborate on the loading proceedure ?
Do you have any idea of a value ?

I used to have a gun like yer #3 in GREAT shape and at the time thot it was barbaric and i think i tossed it in the trash or gave it fer like $10 er so.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

pohill
November 3, 2012, 09:30 PM
I'm guessing they were made in the 1850s.
I tried to unscrew the barrels once but gave up because I didn't want to ruin the gun - I couldn't get a good grip on either barrel to twist them. I was hoping you had a pic of the tool used. The top two guns in the pic unscrewed easily.
When I fired the HERO, I unscrewed the barrel, put the powder in the little chamber, put the ball on top of the chamber and screwed the barrel over the ball. I'm pretty sure they didn't patch the ball so the fit has to be tight.
As far as value - my double barrel pistol is in good mechanical shape. No rust or pitting that I've seen. Strong main springs(s). I think the nipples are replacements. A few years ago I paid $45 for it at a gun shop. I saw an identical gun, actually a twin, to mine last year in another shop for $125.
I'd ask $125 now.
The grips on yours are unusual. How well can you repair it?

Jim, West PA
November 3, 2012, 09:51 PM
Thanx pohill.
My Bbls are just finger tight now.
( in my pics they look crookwards because they are on wrong. I've since switched 'em and they're straight and true )
No, i don't have the tool either. I'm 'sposin' it's a 4 sided tapered affiar tho.
As for gettin yours loose..There is a penetrating oil on the market now called " FREE ALL " and i gaurantee you it WILL break yours loose. Use that with light tapping with a small brass hammer.It usualy works very fast but time is your friend.
I have used it in unbelievably rusted applications withh 100% success.
I had $100 into the no name Italin .36 '51 Navy with a .047 cylinder gap that i traded for it so i 'spose i did ok if only for the :cool: factor.
As i said in my OP, fortunateky he lied to me about epoxyin the "crack". I have clean wood inside there to work with so i will use two small 'scallopped' dowels and ACRA GLAS. It will make the stock stronger than new.
I can't wait to fix the stock, clean the Bbls, replace the nipples and shoot it.

Mmmmmmm..or, do you think i should leave all the metal as is for value reasons ?

pohill
November 3, 2012, 11:00 PM
I clean all my old guns to get as much rust and crap out as I can. I've heard it many times that you should not clean old guns but if you don't they'll just keep deteriorating. Here's my best example of why an old gun should be cleaned:
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF3907-1.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF3919-1.jpg
I'd clean the heck out of that Belgian DB, repair the grip and start a collection of old, kinda rare, not very valuable percussion guns. Or sell it.

col.lemat
November 3, 2012, 11:03 PM
000 steal wool and oil for cleaning. The barrel tool was on the end of the bullet mold handle at a right angle. Square & tapered. Good find.They were loaded as you assumed.
Made in Belgium

Jim, West PA
November 3, 2012, 11:14 PM
Like this one ?
Now i neeeed one. :)
174205

Steel wool of any grit, and guns, NEVER mix under my roof http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=171687&d=1347675547

Jim, West PA
November 3, 2012, 11:22 PM
I'd clean the heck out of that Belgian DB, repair the grip and start a collection of old, kinda rare, not very valuable percussion guns. Or sell it.

I'll probably just repair the stock coz i jist don't feel right cleanin a possible 160 y/o gun. I will tho arrest the rust.

I was actualy thinkin that ..."well, this is may be a cheapy but it is my first REAL BP gun ".
I most likely will sell it or trade it off tho.
But i gotta shoot it first :D

I 'preciate yer time and input pohill.

pohill
November 3, 2012, 11:37 PM
Now I remember...
When I got the gun I wasn't even sure if the barrels unscrewed. I bought this tapered bit at the hardware store and it fits in snugly. but like I said, I started wondering if I was doing the right thing. Now I know so I'll try again (and look for that bullet mold/tool).
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF4216.jpg

I use very fine steel wool and/or bronze wool with good results. As far as cleaning a 160 yr old gun - the dirt and grime might only be 20 yrs old. I doubt the original owners would be happy to see their firearms all crapped up (I'm referring to the guns I get - some of them are pretty "crapped up").
Good info.

Jim, West PA
November 3, 2012, 11:43 PM
I will clean the bores and the innards while i have the stock off.
By not cleaning, i was referin to the outside.

pohill
November 4, 2012, 12:05 AM
I get ya now.
But...remember the Allen & Wheelock .31 I posted about a few days ago? I lightly cleaned the outside and that's when I found the faded engraved lettering on the backstrap.
Anyways, good find you got there. I really like old Belgian guns. They're well made, they hold up over the centuries, and they're not very expensive.

col.lemat
November 4, 2012, 12:09 AM
That the correct type of mold. Finding the caliber might take some time. 000 or 0000 with oil will just remove the crud. You would have to scrub in one spot for hours to remove any metal or finish for that matter. Use plenty of oil & just remove any crud. A tooth brush works well also. Should be a fun shooter, It cant get any more authentic than that with real black. Then hold it up to your ear and it will talk to you. Ah the stories it will tell.

pohill
November 4, 2012, 09:52 AM
When you're cleaning your gun, can you figure out and tell me how the top plate is removed? (the plate that the hammers sit on and through). It unscrews in the back and hinges in the front behind the nipples, but something is holding it on to the frame and I can't see it. Thanks.
Check this out:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=315090153

Jim, West PA
November 4, 2012, 11:51 AM
I certainly will Pohill.
I should o' paid more attention yesterday at the gun show. A feller had one o' these in pieces on his table.
The more i research these, the more i'm realizin that these were put together by many different individuals. Although i'm seein the same guns, i am seein many different stocks and even more so, many different designes in the engravings.

Mmmmmm..i checked that link to gb.
I gotta ask, are we missin somethin or is that seller smokin somethin ?
$375.00 for a non functioning one ?? :what:

I just remembered that during my google searches last nite i saw a pic of one in pieces. I'll see if i can find it again and post it for ya.

kBob
November 4, 2012, 02:45 PM
Since the barrels unscrew, would it not be relatively easy to slug these barrels as though they were a modern rifle about to be used for shooting lead bullets?

-kBob

Jim, West PA
November 4, 2012, 02:51 PM
That's what i'm gonna do Bob once i clean 'em up.

pohill
November 4, 2012, 07:13 PM
I just put the gun in a vise (with leather padding), inserted that tapered bit, gave it a crank and each barrel unscrewed like they were new (I had soaked them in break-free spray awhile back). Now I can see what shape the chambers are in before I shoot it.
Still working on that top plate.

Jim, West PA
November 4, 2012, 07:37 PM
That's good news.
I tried to find that disassembled pic to no avail.It does tho look like you have to remove the stock to get to whatever keeps that top plate in place.
It doesn't look "hinged" like you suspect.It looks like it is only held in place by the top stock screw. But,the cross screw that the hammers pivot on needs to be removed so that the hammers can be removed and allow the top plate to be lifted off.
Don't overlook tho that once you begin to remove the hammers you will be dealin with the hammer spring(s).




Here's a pic that shows that possibly the top stock screw is all that holds top plate on.

pohill
November 4, 2012, 09:16 PM
Mine doesn't have a screw holding the hammers in place - it's a pin. It has to be removed to take out the hammers and top plate. I removed the triggers (same thing - held in place with a pin). I'm going to use a mainspring vise on the mainsprings or a plastic zip-tie to hold them down. Now, getting the hammer pin out should be fun - any advice? It's in there pretty good.

pohill
November 5, 2012, 04:53 PM
I knocked out a pin or two with a drift punch and it all came apart. Putting it back together will be interesting.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF4218.jpg

Jim, West PA
November 5, 2012, 05:03 PM
Good deal.
All looks to be in good shape too.
Are you gonna jist clean, lube, shoot ?
Or are you gonna clean, restore, lube shoot ?

pohill
November 5, 2012, 06:51 PM
I cleaned it, now I'm trying to put it together. Then I'll shoot it.

Jim, West PA
November 5, 2012, 09:26 PM
How did you determine the caliber of yours ?

pohill
November 5, 2012, 10:19 PM
I used a pair of calipers and it measured 13/32 or about .40. I dropped a .390 roundball down the removed barrel and it stopped at the threads. It didn't roll back out when I tipped the barrel. I think that's what I'll use for now.

Jim, West PA
November 6, 2012, 12:04 PM
Thanx, i'll hafta give that try after i clean my bores.

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