What gun for Dinosaur and Mammoth


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Readyrod
November 4, 2012, 04:27 AM
I remember someone doing a thread along these lines but I don't think it was taken too seriously. (Ok I can understand why, but still) I was at the Nature and Science Museum with the kids today and I couldn't help but wonder how you would actually hunt a dinosaur or mammoth: meaning caliber, shot placement, and gun. Let's assume you were hunting them in a sporting way.
Here are some pix:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tyrannosaurus_Rex_Holotype.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Triceratops_prorsus_-_IMG_0697.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Triceratops_AMNH_01.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Berlin_Diplodocus.jpg
I imagine that for the plant eaters a heart/lungs shot would do the job but what about the carnivores?
Here are some pix of mammoths:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Indricotherium_skelton.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Deinotherium_BW.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hauerelefant-Deinotherium.jpg
This guy is one of my favorites. Don't know how you would fit it on your wall tho:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Columbian_mammoth.JPG
Look at some skulls:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sue_TRex_Skull_Full_Frontal.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paraceratherium_bugtiense_skull.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Deinotherium_giganteum_skull.JPG
What do you think?

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natman
November 4, 2012, 07:24 AM
This comes up pretty regularly, so before people recommend various light artillery / 50 BMG, let me say that if the hunt is ON FOOT, which would limit the discussion to guns that can realistically be carried and fired from the shoulder, I'd recommend a 460 Weatherby with 500 grain monolithic solids, although the 577 T-Rex, 600 NE, etc. would also serve.

This begs the question of where to shoot. A heart / lung shot is out of the question. It would probably be fatal eventually, but eventually won't cut it with a T-Rex!

Brain shots would be tough. The brain isn't all that big, reptilian nervous systems are decentralized, and the skull is massive.

What I would recommend is a immobilizing shot, probably to the knee. A T-Rex isn't going to go far on one leg. Then you could sink in a few heart / lung shots that would finally finish it off.

All things considered, there are other things I'd rather do. Have fun!

Readyrod
November 4, 2012, 07:48 AM
the hunt is ON FOOT, which would limit the discussion to guns that can realistically be carried and fired from the shoulder

Yes on foot. But you can have some porters. A bipod is acceptable, I guess.
BTW this old radio show helped prompt the question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7edFWC-120

guyfromohio
November 4, 2012, 08:09 AM
.380 hollowpoints will not penetrate. I'd go with jacketed round nose.

JohnM
November 4, 2012, 08:29 AM
A late Halloween night of Jurassic Park movies? :banghead:

Blue68f100
November 4, 2012, 08:30 AM
Here is an interesting thread on BIG bore guns. 1000gr slugs at 3000 fps should do some damage (to your shoulder). http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3237

Fredericianer
November 4, 2012, 08:38 AM
Anything up to and including a T-Rex; 10mm is all you need.

Readyrod
November 4, 2012, 09:01 AM
.380 hollowpoints will not penetrate. I'd go with jacketed round nose.

Anything up to and including a T-Rex; 10mm is all you need.

Yea I know, I expected this kind of answer but I am serious here.

Here is an interesting thread on BIG bore guns. 1000gr slugs at 3000 fps should do some damage (to your shoulder). http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/...pic.php?t=3237

This, on the other hand seems interesting.

jmorris
November 4, 2012, 09:14 AM
If I'm going all out on a jurassic safari I would prefer an A 10, maybe even some sort of UFO I haven't thought of. Yeah that's it and a lightsaber should make short work of skinning...

Art Eatman
November 4, 2012, 10:37 AM
Having seen dinosaur bones, and having a chunk of a fossilized leg bone in my possession, I figure that breaking a leg bone in order to cripple or immobilize one of the very large types would be the rational way to go.

Figure a bone of four to six inches in diameter, as you consider what might be "enough gun".

Maybe H&H knows the diameter of an elephant's femur, which is about the only comparable bone for size.

ndh87
November 4, 2012, 10:43 AM
45-70 marlin with garrett hardcast loads. If it works on the big game critters in africa it should do for dino.

LordDunsany
November 4, 2012, 12:34 PM
45-70 lever action as above, two shots into each knee joint. If that doesn't bring the critter down to your level, then maybe it will slow him down as you try to run away.

However, if he does go down, then several shots into eye socket angling back to brain case might finish the job.

Ron in Cretaceous Era Texas

Aaron1100us
November 4, 2012, 12:43 PM
Something in .700 Nitro Express like what they use in Africa for Elephants?

Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk 2

ScrapMetalSlug
November 4, 2012, 08:57 PM
I would start with something commonly used on African safaris for dangerous game. Nothing less than .375 and up. Mammoths shouldn't really be any different than what you would hunt elephant with, the way I understand it they are basically hairier elephants so a .470 nitro express would be good. With that being said, I have heard they credit the Atlatl with making the mammoth go extinct, so don't discount archery.

Clark
November 4, 2012, 09:35 PM
To make one's BIG5, they shoot rhinoceros with a tranquilizer gun, because there are not enough of them.

I know a woman that has bed and breakfast at her ranch for dinosaur fossil digging.
Good luck even getting an elk tag for open country like that.

If the Allosaurus or T Rex were around today, but as rare as they were in their day, I think we could get a tranquiler shot at best.

caribou
November 4, 2012, 11:59 PM
Bell waltz'd Africa with his 7mm I stroll Arctic Alaska with a M-39 Mosin Nagant...... I just havent shot one yet, and now I here theres oodles of Dianosaur Bones and such nearby, I think I'll track a few down ~~LOL!!~~


http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/edwardhailstone/rtua6u36.jpg


http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/edwardhailstone/PICT0082.jpg



http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/edwardhailstone/PICT0052.jpg


http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/edwardhailstone/goodoldones0313.jpg



http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/edwardhailstone/goodoldones0019.jpg

klyph
November 5, 2012, 12:19 AM
The 12gauge from hell would do the job
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=178655

But you'd probably be better off with a .50 bmg, you certainly can carry them around, and semi auto capability would almost be a requirement for such dangerous game.

Clark
November 5, 2012, 12:57 AM
I recognize the mammoth molars from watching TV about their extinction.

Readyrod
November 5, 2012, 08:58 AM
But you'd probably be better off with a .50 bmg, you certainly can carry them around, and semi auto capability would almost be a requirement for such dangerous game.

That's what I was thinking. Might not be too quick tho.

What I would recommend is a immobilizing shot, probably to the knee. A T-Rex isn't going to go far on one leg. Then you could sink in a few heart / lung shots that would finally finish it off.

I was looking at the skeleton of a t-rex and it looked like the tail might be necessary for balance. They look very front heavy. I thought that if you could immobilize the tail it might go off balance. I was also thinking neck shot. It's certainly a big enough target. I don't know enough about hunting tho. Prob is you would most likely be looking at it from the front.
Nice tusks Caribou!!! Me like!!!!
Where are you H&H?

MCgunner
November 5, 2012, 09:07 AM
It's not the arrow, it's the Indian. Put that .22 in his eyeball, T Rex will fall.

I think probably the BEST caliber is .223. Everyone tells me it's devastating, kills better than .458 Win Mag because the bullet tumbles, or something like that. Some even say it bounces around inside the animal. :D Sure, it's only 70 grains and .224" and only has 1200 ft lbs at the muzzle, but hey, it KILLS better than a .458. I know this because I've read it on the internet. The internet is always right!

Gotta go now. I have a date, met her on the internet, she's a French model. ......

oneounceload
November 5, 2012, 10:11 AM
If an RPG is too much, then an African double - 577, 600 Nitro, or similar would work well

627PCFan
November 5, 2012, 11:00 AM
Apparently Im the only nutbag that is ok with the old 50 Cal Muzzleloader and one of them fancy lead bullets with water inside it people use for Elk. Id go double lung and let the cards fall where they may. Besides you can use the smoke as cover to make a hasty get-away

Sav .250
November 5, 2012, 12:06 PM
Just read all the posts.........That`s it. :)

d2wing
November 6, 2012, 10:53 AM
Pretty funny. Too much is always better than not enough. Bazooka and flame thrower. Kill, process and cook. Gotta love modern technology. They kill whales with explosive harpoons. My favorite weapon in 'Nam was a Ma Duece (50 cal. Machine gun) mounted on a 5 ton backed with grenade launchers and M60s. Some gun trucks had 20mm anti aircraft guns. That would be about right.
45-70 guys always crack me up. Ask Custer how that worked out.
To kill a Dinasour you should be smarter than the Dinasour. Good thread for amusement.

Cosmoline
November 6, 2012, 12:29 PM
This is an old idea. L. Sprague De Camp wrote a fantastic radio script on this very topic for X Minus One (now public domain I believe)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7edFWC-120

Brain shots with dinos would, as the show notes, would be of little value. And heart/lung would probably not kill fast enough in a charge. So you would indeed have to have a gun big enough to take out a major joint and knock them off their charge.

The mammoths were close cousins to elephants, so the standard elephant guns would work fine for them unless that hair got covered with ice or something.

MrDig
November 6, 2012, 12:48 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=178655&highlight=12+Gauge+Rifle+from+hell

That might do.......

Readyrod
November 7, 2012, 06:42 AM
This is an old idea. L. Sprague De Camp wrote a fantastic radio script on this very topic for X Minus One (now public domain I believe)

I mentioned that one in post #3. Tho I'm pretty sure that I got the original link on THR.

Clipper
November 7, 2012, 08:18 AM
LAWs rocket would do the trick, or maybe a Carl Gustav 57mm recoilless rifle? Chest shot would have the advantage of field dressing it with the shot...

brnmw
November 7, 2012, 08:39 AM
A-10 with the 30 mm caliber GAU-8/A Avenger ;)

That may not really be sporty or even legal so I would say a .458 Win. Mag. then have some buddy of mine carry the .50 BMG as back up... but make him carry it! :evil:

Truth be known I think I would stick to the smaller of the dino. species... no T-Rex for me.

Double Naught Spy
November 7, 2012, 08:47 AM
I remember someone doing a thread along these lines but I don't think it was taken too seriously. (Ok I can understand why, but still) I was at the Nature and Science Museum with the kids today and I couldn't help but wonder how you would actually hunt a dinosaur or mammoth:

You know, 'dinosour' isn't particular animal type like 'mammoth' is and even 'mammoth' has a lot of variation. You could take a Microcertatops (also known as Microceratus, ~20 lbs., tops) with .17 hmr. Raptorex (150 lbs.) could be taken with about anything good for deer or hogs such as .223 to .45-70 or 12 ga slugs.

I would start with something commonly used on African safaris for dangerous game. Nothing less than .375 and up. Mammoths shouldn't really be any different than what you would hunt elephant with, the way I understand it they are basically hairier elephants so a .470 nitro express would be good. With that being said, I have heard they credit the Atlatl with making the mammoth go extinct, so don't discount archery.

Okay, African elephants up to 4m and 7500 kg, or about 8.5 tons. Then you have the Songhua River Mammoth - Mammuthus sungari that comes in closer to 17 tons and MUCH LARGER overall in size. http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9618399/1/ These, of course, should not be confused with the cute little pygmy mammoths such as were found on Santa Rosa Island that were only about 1 ton. http://www.nps.gov/chis/historyculture/pygmymammoth.htm

Kyle M.
November 7, 2012, 09:14 AM
I think this would do the trick.

http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm

rodinal220
November 7, 2012, 09:45 AM
40mm Bofors

MCgunner
November 7, 2012, 09:51 AM
Atlatls were fatal to Mammoth. I don't see the AR15 lacking, better than a stick with a rock on it, and it'll kill anything that walks. Most devastating round on the planet because the bullet tumbles. I've learned this from the internet and the internet is always right.

Vern Humphrey
November 7, 2012, 02:37 PM
The standard hunting weapon for mammoth was the atl-atl. This is a stick, curved up at one end and slightly down at the other. The hunter puts his dart (like an arrow on steroids) with the butt against the upward curve and holds the atl-atl by the other end. He brings it back over his shoulder and throws.

Refinements include the Folsom point, held on by a piece of cane slipped over the end of the dart. On impact, the dart would bounce back, adding impetus to the stone point, which penetrated deeply.

They also used "banner stones" -- which looked like a double bitted ax. The banner stone slid down the atl-atl and rested against the thrower's knuckles. As he threw, certrifugal force made it slide up the shaft, increasing the force of the throw.

MCgunner
November 7, 2012, 04:07 PM
Those Clovis people were brilliant. :D

Vern Humphrey
November 7, 2012, 04:15 PM
Those Clovis people were brilliant.
A lot smarter than modern-day New Mexicans -- as last night's election proved.

saturno_v
November 7, 2012, 05:04 PM
A mammoth could reach an height of 13 feet at the shoulder and weighting 9 tonnes.....very large specimen could top 12 tonnes.

A T. Rex could reach 13 feet height at the hip, 40 feet long and 7-8 tonnes in weigth.

So I leave to your imagination the size of the bone structure to carry that weight......and the muscle mass and strength for the T.Rex to carry a body of that size at high speed....estimates for the top speed of a T.Rex vary between 20-25 mph and as high as 45 mph.

I would say forget "stopping power" for a shouldered rifle or even for a 50 BMG....probably a reasonable hunt would require several people and a maiming strategy to bring down the animal.....no quick death....or, alternatively, a tank.....

Vern Humphrey
November 7, 2012, 05:06 PM
I'd hunt T-Rex with a snare -- a steel cable and a log drag. Forget shooting him, at least until he's worn down and immobilized.

saturno_v
November 7, 2012, 05:30 PM
....now if we talk about Dinosaurs in general things gets even more interesting (the T.Rex was nowhere among the largest)...

A Brachiosaurus could reach an height of 39 feet and a length of 74 feet and reach 60 metric tonnes of weight


...then we get into the really big stuff.....estimates for the Argentinosaurus could reach 100 tonnes in weight and a length of 110 feet.....the spectacular Sauroposeidon could reach 59 feet in height (six store building height)

The Amphicoelias, the largest of them all, could reach (estimates) 190 feet in length and 120 tonnes of weight.....Mark 7 naval guns anyone?? :D


Even among the carnivorous dinosaurs the T Rex was not the largest....that honor goes to the Carcharodontosaurus which could reach 45 feet in length and 15 tonnes of weight....

MCgunner
November 7, 2012, 06:23 PM
A Brachiosaurus could reach an height of 39 feet and a length of 74 feet and reach 60 metric tonnes of weight

No match for the .223. I know, I've read it on the internet. Did you know that the bullet tumbles? :D

Double Naught Spy
November 7, 2012, 06:53 PM
No match for the .223. I know, I've read it on the internet. Did you know that the bullet tumbles?

Yeah, but what about ninja brachiosaurs?

Robert
November 7, 2012, 07:39 PM
THR deals in reality, and since there are no dinosaurs around these days lets call this done.

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