New BATFE Black Powder Requirement?


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NukemJim
November 4, 2012, 10:55 AM
Picked up a pund of 4F yesterday for my muzzle loader and had the store make a copy of my ID (I live in Illinois so it was my FOID). I've purchased there before and this was not done so I asked and was told that this was a new BATFE requirement (NOT state).

This sounds like BS to me does anyone know?

Thank you

NukemJim

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Midwest
November 4, 2012, 12:15 PM
Picked up a pund of 4F yesterday for my muzzle loader and had the store make a copy of my ID (I live in Illinois so it was my FOID). I've purchased there before and this was not done so I asked and was told that this was a new BATFE requirement (NOT state).

This sounds like BS to me does anyone know?

Thank you

NukemJim
It is NOT a BATFE requirement. It must be either a store or state requirement because FOID's are NOT required in other states except in NJ and Mass.

Jeff White
November 4, 2012, 09:00 PM
The FOID act doesn't address components or black powder.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1657&ChapterID=39
"Firearm ammunition" means any self-contained cartridge or shotgun shell, by whatever name known, which is designed to be used or adaptable to use in a firearm; excluding, however:
(1) any ammunition exclusively designed for use with a device used exclusively for signalling or safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission; and
(2) any ammunition designed exclusively for use with a stud or rivet driver or other similar industrial ammunition.


It might be a local ordinance or the gun shop's own policy.

Kyle M.
November 5, 2012, 05:54 PM
Must be an IL thing I just purchased a pound of Goex FFG, along with 2lbs. of Hodgdon BL-C(2) about 40 minutes ago and didn't go through any such thing. Apparently the state of IL now believes that anyone buying black powder is a terrorist meaning to make a bomb.

Cosmoline
November 5, 2012, 05:56 PM
I have noticed that the local shop selling real black powder does keep a tally of what's going to whom. It looks informal, but it could well be related to monitoring explosives sales.

Jeff White
November 5, 2012, 05:58 PM
Apparently the state of IL now believes that anyone buying black powder is a terrorist meaning to make a bomb.

Can you point me to the Illinois law that says that?

Kyle M.
November 5, 2012, 06:07 PM
Can you point me to the Illinois law that says that?
Sorry I meant to be sarcastic which is hard to imply with text.

W.E.G.
November 5, 2012, 07:40 PM
When the "DC Sniper" (may he rot in hell) was on his murder-spree, I had the counter employee at the Sports Authority in Alexandria, VA, demand to copy all the identifying information from my drivers license into a ledger when I bought shotgun shells there.

He said the BATF was "requiring it."

A complete lie.
I don't doubt it though that some law enforcement agency browbeat them into doing it.

Trent
November 5, 2012, 08:34 PM
The IL State Police FAQ lists this, which makes some (uninformed) dealers think that black powder, itself, requires an FOID.


Do I need a valid FOID card for a muzzleloader or blackpowder gun?

Yes. In Illinois, muzzleloaders and blackpowder guns are considered firearms.


Only the weapon is regulated. Not the components.

This is further defined here (as summarized):

http://dnr.state.il.us/mines/bed/explosive.pdf


License requirements (see below) do not apply to agricultural fertilizers used for agricultural or horticultural purposes; common carriers authorized to carry explosive materials pursuant to the Interstate Commerce Act or the Illinois Commerce Commission; the purchase, receipt, possession or use, by an individual, of primers or propellant powder for firearm loading/reloading; and the possession or purchase of up to 25 pounds of smokeless powder or up to 5 pounds of black powder, by any person holding a valid Firearm Owner’s Identification Card.

The storage requirements (see below) do not apply to less than 5 pounds of black powder or less than 25 pounds of smokeless powder.


Technically, LEGALLY, if you have more than 25 pounds of smokeless or more than 5 pounds of black powder (pyrodex is not black powder):


Storage Certificate Requirements- Any person who intends to store explosive materials is required to first obtain a storage certificate from the MS&TD. The application for the storage certificate must designate a person or persons having responsibility for the magazine (magazine keeper).

The magazine keeper is responsible for explosive inventory and transaction records, magazine security and general magazine and surrounding area maintenance to insure safety. Any theft from the magazine requires the MS&TD be promptly notified.


While I've never, ever heard of them enforcing this on an individual... it is technically a Class 3 felony to violate the storage conditions without a license (over 25 pounds of smokeless or 5 pounds of black powder).

Trent
November 5, 2012, 08:42 PM
Storing black powder in IL:


(225 ILCS 210/3000) (from Ch. 96 1/2, par. 1-3000)
Sec. 3000. Storage requirements; exemptions.
(a) No person, unless otherwise exempt, shall store explosive materials unless a storage certificate has been issued by the Department. The Department shall, by rule, establish requirements for the storage of explosive materials including magazine construction, magazine maintenance and the distances from which magazines or factory buildings must be separated from other magazines, buildings, railroads and highways. In establishing magazine construction, maintenance and distance requirements, the Department shall differentiate, as appropriate, between types, classifications and quantities of explosive materials and shall fully consider nationally recognized industry standards and the standards enforced by agencies of the federal government including the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms of the United States Department of the Treasury.
(b) This Article does not apply to the purchase, receipt, possession, or use of black powder solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes by an individual for his or her own use or for his or her immediate family living in the same household, unless the quantity of black powder is more than 5 pounds. Black powder in quantities greater than 5 pounds must be stored in accordance with this Article, regardless of the intended usage.
(Source: P.A. 96-1194, eff. 1-1-11.)

Ultravox
November 5, 2012, 10:08 PM
Minnesota state law (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=299F.785&year=2012&keyword_type=&keyword=) says that you have to provide ID and the seller has to record it if you are buying more than five pounds of black powder.

That said, when I bought one pound at Track of the Wolf they took down my information anyway.

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