.357 and 9mm Powder???


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stavman11
November 6, 2012, 05:56 PM
Well.... been mainly shooting 38s rds in my S&W 19-3, 6" barrel .357..... But have some Special loads of .357 from a buddy (he has long since passed away) no clue the stats of the .357 loads but MAN they pack a punch....

Now that i load alot of .223 really thinking about .357 loading now...

I shoot more 9mm but they are so cheap to buy... not sure if I will re-load them... But .357 is so POWERFUL and Fun.... re-thinking my loading options


any input on Powder that would work well for Both, and any incite on Loading .357 would be great... powder...Bullets.... etc.... i should have around 400-6000 brass currently so pretty ready to roll......

Oh and its a Lee pro 1000 press


Thanks guys



Stav

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rcmodel
November 6, 2012, 06:04 PM
Unique will work very well in 9mm and pretty well in .357.

It will not give the top velocities a slower powder like 2400 or H110 will in the .357.
But those powders will not work at all in the 9mm.

It will do well enough to let you know you are shooting a .357 though.

rc

tightgroup tiger
November 6, 2012, 06:25 PM
I have used power pistol in both my 9mm and .357mag loads. It seems to be very accurate but I don't like the brilliant flash that power pistol delivers with heavier loads.
You will actually loose sight of your target for a moment.

I also use titegroup and universal for both of these calibers as they will meter well in the Lee powder measure. As does 231 and bullseye, and just about any of the faster burning powders. I never considered the 357 case to be position sensitive with powder or prone to shape charging like the larger bore pistol cartridges are with light loads of fast burning powders.
Unique doesn't meter well in most powder measures and I've found it to be static prone in my reloading room. Other people may not have that problem.
I will say this though, my lee pro autodisc powder measure on my pro1000 will throw more consistent loads of Unique then my Hornady or RCBS uni-flow measures will.
Go figure. (Again, maybe static induced)
Don't be afraid to try Unique, It's been around since like 1899 and is tried and true for accuracy. Unique is usually a Love-Hate relationship with not much in between.
Just my opinion.

Magnum Shooter
November 6, 2012, 06:40 PM
Any powder that will work for both 9mm and 357Mag will not give that punch in 357Mag you are looking for. You need a slower powder like 2400 for that and it doesnít work in 9mm. You simply canít cut corners by using one powder and still get maximum performance from both.

ColtPythonElite
November 6, 2012, 06:42 PM
Power Pistol

Hungry1
November 6, 2012, 06:44 PM
I've been shooting .357 LSWC cutters and jacketed 9mm over Unique with no problems.

CZ57
November 6, 2012, 07:39 PM
If you're loading 9mm to full power and want to load .357 Magnum to about 100 to 150 FPS of full velocity, the best powder you're likely to find for it is AA#7. ;)

SHR970
November 6, 2012, 07:53 PM
AA#7..full house 9mm (especially with heavier bullets) and not quite full house 357. In my last keg of powder I had worked up loads that were REAL close to H110 / W296 velocity.

Next up is Longshot.

ArchAngelCD
November 6, 2012, 08:49 PM
There are many medium burn rate powders that will work fairly well in both the 9mm and .357 Magnum.

They include:
Power Pistol
AA#5 or AA#7
HS-6
Longshot
And probably a few more but those are the powders I know first hand work for both... Note, faster powders like W231/HP-38 and a few others can also be used for both but will not deliver real magnum performance in the .357 Magnum. The listed powders will at least deliver lower end real magnum power while slower powders like 2400, AA#9, W296/H110 and the like will produce top end power.

For the life of my I can not figure out why so many reloaders want to use only 1 powder for none similar cartridges. You really save nothing using 1 powder that really isn't optimum for each and you cheat yourself of one of the main reasons for reloading, better performance that factory ammo. That said, if I really had to pick only one powder for those two calibers it would be HS-6.

the count
November 6, 2012, 09:39 PM
Just get Bullseye for all your pistol loads. End of story.

BYJO4
November 6, 2012, 09:43 PM
I use Bullseye for 9MM, 357, and 45 ACP.

ArchAngelCD
November 6, 2012, 09:54 PM
Bullseye, really? That is just about the last powder I would use in a .357 Magnum. that powder is way too fast for good results. Alliant doesn't even list Bullseye for the .357 Magnum other than with lead bullets. If you would have said Unique, sure, but Bullseye?

Fishslayer
November 7, 2012, 12:01 AM
Just get Bullseye for all your pistol loads. End of story.

Ummm....no.

9mm & .45ACP, sure. Not for sho' nuff Big Dog .357 tho.

4895
November 7, 2012, 01:04 AM
I recommend Alliant's BlueDot powder for hot 9mm and hot .357 mag. For 9mm it burns clean enough for me and has a nice flash with top speeds. In .357 mag it provides magnum power for bullets ABOVE 125 grains ONLY!

J_McLeod
November 7, 2012, 02:07 AM
I really like HS-6 in 9mm, and it'll provide some of the higher velocities for .357 from the non magnum powders.

CGT80
November 7, 2012, 03:06 AM
Paying double what it costs me to load 9mm is cheap? I load 124 jhp ammo in 9mm for $12.50 per 100 rounds. It takes me 3 minutes to load 100 rounds.....well 4 minutes if you include loading up the primer tube with primers and throwing bullets in the bullet feeder.

You could use less expensive bullets and go cheaper yet. Savings is usually 50% or more for metallic centerfire ammo. I can't buy components for 12 ga target loads as cheap as I can buy the finished winchester ammo, otherwise I would load for shotgun too.

I love hp-38/win231 for small pistols and for light magnum pistol loads. I use trail boss for light 460 Mag pistol loads. It will work for any pistol or rifle, but may not work the action on some semi autos. h-110/win 296 is common for magnum full power loads. It is no big deal to use multiple powders. I try to stick to only a handful to make it easier though. It can be fun to work up new loads and run them on a chrono, but I also like to stick with a load after it is proven.

My pet 9mm load is 4.2 grains of win 231 and a MG 124 JHP seated to 1.125" at a speed of 970fps.

I am going to give moly coated lead bullets another try in my 9mm competition gun though. MG bullets are up to $91 per K and I can get bear creek moly for $57 per K. It is hard to spend that extra money.

ArchAngelCD
November 7, 2012, 03:27 AM
My pet 9mm load is 4.2 grains of win 231 and a MG 124 JHP seated to 1.125" at a speed of 970fps.
I have a similar load and I also like W231/HP-38 for most of my handgun loading in spite of what I posted above because I don't like it for magnum calibers. I usually charge 4.0gr W231 under a 124/125gr LRN bullet and 4.4gr W231 under a 124gr FMJ bullet. Both are great 9mm loads which are clean and accurate for me...

Are you really getting 970 fps from a 4.2gr charge of W231 under a 124gr JHP bullet? I haven't sent mine over a chrono yet but I didn't think the velocity would be that high. How long is the barrel on the pistol that delivered 970 fps?

stavman11
November 7, 2012, 11:30 AM
Great Info Guys...

I had no Clue that it was such a difference in Powder for a 9mm and .357.... Since I will start with 1lb of powder most likely, I will try 2 different for each then.... and Possibly try a AA#7 for both and see what the results are...

Heading out today to try some new loads for .357 (factory) and see how i like them over .38special rounds...

Also gunna $$$ out new gear for .357 loading... see what it actualy costs localy 1st...


thanks again guys


Stav

JoeDaddy
November 7, 2012, 01:05 PM
Stavman be sure you don't push your model 19 too hard. Take this from someone who has cracked a forcing cone on mine. Search "cracked forcing cone model 19" for more info. Also stay with the 158 grain bullets.

I stick with mid-range power pistol and 2400 loads for mine and usually use lead 158 grainers. Don't use the 125's at high velocity in your 19.

2zulu1
November 7, 2012, 02:01 PM
Another vote for AA #7, it will match factory 125/1450fps with a 4" barrel. It's also a very good powder for the 38 Super and 10mm.

TrueTexan
November 7, 2012, 03:09 PM
Nice thing about loading for 357 is you can load light and have the same as 38spl and by using 357 brass you don't have the carbon ring build up in the cylinder. just add 10% to your 38 powder loads to account for the larger case volume.

gamestalker
November 7, 2012, 03:30 PM
For full house .357 magnum loads H110 / 296 and a jacketed HP will top the list. Just don't try to reduce this powder to less than minimum published data or it will perform very poorly, possibly even fail to ignite or produce squibs.

And for the 9mm, Longshot behind a jacketed bullet will produce some full power loads. I like Longshot because it doesn't get spikey when working up. It also fills the case up nicely, thus making it impossible to severely over charge a case, or double charge one. This powder is also very good in a 38 spcl. and .40 S&W load.

HS-6 is another good powder for 9mm, 38 spcl., and .40 S&W. It is also a slower burning powder, much like Longshot in this respect.

GS

the count
November 7, 2012, 08:43 PM
Here are a bunch of 357 loads...incl. Bullseye. There may be a specific powder better for this caliber and another for that but Bullseye has never failed me (unlike Clays in 9mm) as a universal pistol powder.

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=357%20Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun

zxcvbob
November 7, 2012, 09:11 PM
Bullseye, really? That is just about the last powder I would use in a .357 Magnum. that powder is way too fast for good results. Alliant doesn't even list Bullseye for the .357 Magnum other than with lead bullets. If you would have said Unique, sure, but Bullseye?
They used to (thru 2004) list it with every bullet, and the performance was pretty good. They took it out when they revamped their load book to push Speer bullets.

I also use Bullseye for 9mm +P loads and like it. It doesn't get peaky at the top end like many other powders.

All that said, Power Pistol or AA#7 might be a better choice.

frankmako
November 7, 2012, 09:20 PM
i use aa#5 and titegroup for both.

CGT80
November 8, 2012, 06:10 AM
Are you really getting 970 fps from a 4.2gr charge of W231 under a 124gr JHP bullet? I haven't sent mine over a chrono yet but I didn't think the velocity would be that high. How long is the barrel on the pistol that delivered 970 fps?

I run an XD 40 Service model (4" barrel) with a 9mm barsto conversion barrel that is hand fit to my gun. The gun has 30k+ rounds through it and is on the original recoil spring. It does have a bunch of other upgrades for competition. The barsto barrel has probably around 10k+ rounds through it. I don't really keep track of rounds, but I go through a lot of bullets. 99% of the ammo run through my gun is hand loaded by me, and is low power.

This load is actually pretty weak. It is a bit too light to meet minimum power factor for some sanctioned matches. This load also will just cycle my gun when I shoot weak hand only. Single strong hand and two hand holds run just fine.

This is from my CED M2 at 6-10' away on a mild spring day in SoCal.

Chris XD 9mm 124 JHP 4.2 Win 231
1) 961.1 -7.6
2) 989.3 20.6
3) 963 -5.7
4) 961.2 -7.5
5) 969.1 0.4

High: 989.3
Low: 961.1
E.S.: 28.2
Ave.: 968.7
S.D.: 11.9
95%: 16.5


I bought some frangible bullets from midway. A 90 grain CTF Remington bullet over 5.0 grains of win 231 seated to 1.130" comes out just slightly below 1200 fps. This load runs just as well as the MG 124 JHP load, but I only paid $50 per K for the bullets when they were on sale. MG's are now $91 per K when bought by the case.

ArchAngelCD
November 8, 2012, 03:27 PM
Thanks for the info CGT80.

dragon813gt
November 8, 2012, 07:42 PM
H110/W296 or 2400 for the 357 or don't bother. I'm partial to H110 but I just started working up some loads with 2400. I'm of the opinion that if you are shooting a magnum firearm then you should load it to full power. I have other firearms for powder puff loads :)


Brought to you by TapaTalk.

4895
November 8, 2012, 09:35 PM
If I was loading 9mm and .357mag and only wanted to use (1) powder for both, I would make the choice in the following order:

(1) Bluedot

(2) HS-6

(3) Power Pistol

(4) W-231

(5) Titegroup

(6) Unique

Any of these powders will load successfully with standard primers for simplicity. I don't have any metering problems with the listed powders either. YMMV.

oneounceload
November 8, 2012, 09:56 PM
Any one powder will be a compromise. While Unique or Universal Clays can do a decent job in 9mm they will not give you the 357 performance that other choices will.

I suggest you read up about reloading both and buy two powders - it doesn't cost that much

SHR970
November 9, 2012, 06:16 PM
oneounceload originally said:Any one powder will be a compromise. While Unique or Universal Clays can do a decent job in 9mm they will not give you the 357 performance that other choices will.

I suggest you read up about reloading both and buy two powders - it doesn't cost that much

In this case there are powders that can give top 9mm performance and still give 90+% 357 across the board. They may still be a compromise but we are talking about working between the 45 yard lines.

BTW 4895 lots of flash is not a feature...rather a detraction for the use of Blue Dot. Modern defensive / carry ammo is LOW FLASH for the more common time / situation you would use it in.... low light conditions. Besides, Blue Dot has been determined by the manufacturer to be questionable (read Liability issues) with 125 gr. 357 loads; they have issued specific admonishments against this use. No doubt due to it's 'peaky' tendencies in certain loadings.

Mobuck
November 9, 2012, 07:54 PM
AA#7 is my choice for factory level 9mm and upper mid range 357. It won't quite achieve full magnum velocities vs. H110 but it is good enough for most 357 needs.

4895
November 9, 2012, 10:01 PM
BTW 4895 lots of flash is not a feature...rather a detraction for the use of Blue Dot. Modern defensive / carry ammo is LOW FLASH for the more common time / situation you would use it in.... low light conditions. Besides, Blue Dot has been determined by the manufacturer to be questionable (read Liability issues) with 125 gr. 357 loads; they have issued specific admonishments against this use. No doubt due to it's 'peaky' tendencies in certain loadings.

Didn't know this was for carry/defense ammo. I thought we were talking about range fodder. Bluedot does have a big bang/flash thing going on. I like it, and I purchase my carry ammo over the counter.

The S&W 19 the OP is using isn't suitable for heavy loaded 125 grain bullets. I suggest 158 grain bullets to keep wear to a minimum. It isn't a Ruger after all and will break quite easily if pushed too hard with light bullets.

That is why I suggested Blue Dot. It will give near peak velocities in both calibers. I use it with 125 grain FMJ in 9mm and also in 158 grain SJHP .357 mag with no problems.

I have never had a problem with it in 125 grain bullet loadings, but do concur that Alliant has issued a statement warning reloaders not to use the published load data of BlueDot with 125 grain pills in .357 magnum nor any loading in .41 magnum IIRC.

Hondo 60
November 10, 2012, 11:08 PM
Magnum Shooter hit the nail on the head in Post # 4.

If it works in 9mm it won't give top velocity in .357 Magnum.
And powders that work well in .357, won't have data available in 9mm because the chamber pressure would be too great.

SHR970
November 11, 2012, 02:48 AM
Hondo 60 originally wrote:If it works in 9mm it won't give top velocity in .357 Magnum.
And powders that work well in .357, won't have data available in 9mm because the chamber pressure would be too great.

The second part is incorrect; actually the opposite is true. You can't stuff enough of the real slow powders into a 9mm case to get the pressure up to the proper levels for it to work right. With many loads of Blue Dot or AA#7 you are running into compressed loads in a 9mm and these powders are faster than the powders that give "top" performance in a 357.

CZ57
November 11, 2012, 05:01 AM
And considering the OP is shooting an M19, AA#7 will give him all the velocity he's likely to want to load to for it. For full power loads with 124 and 147 gr. bullets in 9mm, it's one of the best powders available. ;)

warnerwh
November 13, 2012, 04:13 AM
Unique will work with both fine. With the .357 you can still get some pretty good velocity. Unless you need very max .357 power you can use mid power loads with the Unique which it excels at. It's easier on gun and shooter.

joneb
November 13, 2012, 10:26 PM
AA#7 is my choice for factory level 9mm and upper mid range 357. It won't quite achieve full magnum velocities vs. H110 but it is good enough for most 357 needs.
And post #36
I agree.

LUCKYDAWG13
November 13, 2012, 10:44 PM
i think you would be better off just to buy two types of powder
i like Bullseye for 9mm and H110 for magnum loads in the 357 mag
just my 2 cents

chriske
November 22, 2012, 06:30 AM
9x19 ? AND .357Mag ?
Blue Dot ?

zeke
November 22, 2012, 08:57 PM
Another fan of AA-7 for full power jacketed 9mm loads, and mid-level 357 mag jacketed loads. Both with Fed small pistol mag primers.

Unique comes close, but is harder to full power in 9mm, and does not quite equal the velocity in 357.

billybob44
November 24, 2012, 12:54 AM
:)Arch is spot on again for his choice.

For med. loads in 9MM, .357, and .45cp. HS-6 is hard to beat..Bill.

Shoot66
November 25, 2012, 07:49 AM
AA no. 7, because that is what I can get easy locally.

chriske
December 5, 2012, 10:50 AM
How could I forget ?

If available : VihtaVuori 3N37 !

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