[bob4]

Hope you can see this OK. I can just begin to see marks on the brass I know I have read about this white line. It's kind hard to see unless you get the light on it just right. Just wondering if this was it for this brass. It's been shot 5 times or so.
http://www.bob-4.com/storage/pics/brass.jpg

[Walkalong]

Looks like sizing marks, but we need a better pic. Have you checked inside for sign of a rut?

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=103714&d=1250726722

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=469814

[Josh45]

I have to agree with Walkalong, It looks like a sizing mark to me.
Do as the illiustration shows. And was this brass loaded with a heavy charge of a light charge?

[45lcshooter]

Charge your cases lower. You will get more loading out of them.

[bob4]

Let me ask this . Sizing marks? I only tonight re-sized this brass fully. Normally I only neck size. Will only neck sizing bring about those marks also ?

Gonna go get a paper clip right after dinner. Thanks.

My charges are on the low end for what I'm loading.

[Jim Watson]

Powder charge weight (within published start-maximum range) doesn't mean anything if you are sizing too much and setting the case shoulder back.

[paintballdude902]

i doubt neck sizing would make those marks.

[Tommy Van Alen]

I can't make out what caliber those casings are, but from what I have seen from the Ammosmith YouTube videos, surplus brass that has been fired from military machine guns is more prone to do that.

[GLOOB]

AFAIC, it's just a sizing mark.

When your cases start to break, then you'll know if you are even going to have an issue. Unless your die or your rifle is out of spec or you pick up some bad brass, it's more likely your cases will die from neck splits, IMO. Or loose primers pockets, if you use Federal brass.

I purchased my initial 300 223 cases as used pickups and had more than a few casehead separations at first. Probably 5-6 of them out of the first 300 rds reloaded. But I kept reloading them, anyway, FLR every time. Second reloading, had a couple. This batch is now on its 5th reload out of my gun, and I haven't had a separation, since. Just the occasional cracked neck. The conclusion I draw (from my very limited experience) is that if your rifle and dies are in spec, the only brass that should be separating is defective and/or has been damaged by someone else's gun? Well, I suppose if you anneal the necks, the casehead might eventually separate.

[foxtail207]

The right side of the "white" area looks to be where your sizing die stopped. They all pretty much look to be the same distance from the end of the case.

[rcmodel]

Perfectly normal sizing ring.

As long as you can't feel a stretch ring inside it, it is good to go.

The "ring" is simply where the tapered case web ends and the thinner case wall starts.

That is where the case expansion stops, right where the thicker web starts.
So it leaves a mark when you size it back where it came from.

rc

[Ehtereon11B]

Looks like the sizing mark where the FL sizing die stops to me.

[bob4]

Looks like sizing marks, but we need a better pic. Have you checked inside for sign of a rut?


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=469814
No rut found. One more question that has me thinking. After I full resize it it works fine in the rifle. But when I shoot this brass the bolt is a bit stiffer to lift up. Bolt doesn't stick and slides back and ejects fine. Anything to be concerned about?

[W.E.G.]

Get out your dremel.

Take the most-suspect case of the batch.

Dremel it to a cross-section.

Look for ring on inside of sectioned case with your glasses on.

If no ring on inside of case, conclude that mark on outside of case is from something else.

Reload.

[Walkalong]

One more question that has me thinking. After I full resize it it works fine in the rifle. But when I shoot this brass the bolt is a bit stiffer to lift up
If this brass is sticky when ejecting from your bolt gun, the pressure is simply too much, or the brass has just been hammered so much from repeated firings, at top or worse pressures, it isn't responding as well to sizing, and isn't sizing back as much as it did when it was young, as in "work hardening".

[bob4]

I'm gonna have to go with too many firings or hardened brass. I'm at the low end of my powder charges.
Also looking at a record of my shots it looks as if I shot this more than I thought.:what: Really lost track I guess. I started with 50 pieces and have shot 18 different times I have recorded. Not all 50 18 times. But cleaned each time and put em back with the others. Another thing I've learned.
Time to toss all that brass for now start over and keep better track of how much each piece gets popped.
Now I'll only clean it when I have no more new or not enough new to build what I need. Better yet if I'm gonna build 15-18 rounds and it leaves me with 5 or less I'll just build and shoot those too and clean 50. This way I'll know how many times each has been fired.
Thanks all.

[jr_roosa]

I get similar marks from my garand where the base of the chamber is a little more generous than it could be. The case walls expand above the web but the case head doesn't expand. It leaves a little bright area and a slight step off. I don't yet have any case head separation or stretch rings and I'm at 5 or 6 reloads.

Yours might be from something else.

If you are retiring them anyway you should cut a few to see what's going on inside. I would also start with a larger batch of 100 to 200 pieces. I load up what I need, toss the fired brass in the bin, and when I get low I polish the whole bunch and start over. Worst case is that I have a dozen or so each time that are one loading short and never get any with extra firings.

J.

[bob4]

.
If you are retiring them anyway you should cut a few to see what's going on inside.
J.I just may do that with a few just to see. But after reading several articles last night and this morning and watching a bunch of videos they are ( the old brass) going in a new freezer bag marked "to be annealed". I made a few punches by hand over the yrs and am familiar with tempering. So with some templiaq and 2 torches I'm sure I can do this with a bit of practice. Probably not before I finish developing my first hunting load.

[Walkalong]

I have been using ten .223 cases for test loads. They have been fired numerous times. I have not kept track by number, I have only been checking them internally. Usually I can get 10+ firings with no problem. I fired them all again yesterday, and after tumbling and sizing I checked them internally. On one case I could feel the very start of a rut, so I dissected the case and took a couple of pics. this case could be fired again. (Assuming one didn't push the shoulder too far back, and your rifles headspace is OK.)

I have seen pics of much worse. There was no "shiny ring" on the outside of the case yet.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=174544&stc=1&d=1352651797
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=174545&stc=1&d=1352651797
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=174546&stc=1&d=1352651797

[bob4]

Thanks Walkalong. I can see in your pics ( nice pics BTW) where the rut is just starting. I did manage to get the dremel out today but didn't dissect a case. Instead I played with OAL as described here (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2712719&postcount=3) and here (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2712798&postcount=5). Funny thing is I got 2 completely different readings. But that's a subject for another topic. Opted for post 5.

[Walkalong]

Sizing and work hardening.

If you set up your sizer for soft new brass and then start shooting the brass over and over, the brass will get harder and springier, and the die will not push the shoulder back as much as it did when first set up. Even if the die used to contact the shell holder when the brass was soft, it may be being held up off the shell holder after the brass gets work hardened.

I fixed my previous post where I worded it improperly.

[bob4]

Sizing and work hardening.

it may be being held up off the shell holder after the brass gets work hardened.

I fixed my previous post where I worded it improperly. Wow ! It all comes together now. I actually noticed that today. A space between shell holder and die, not much but enough for me to notice. My first thought was " How did my die get outta whack. Turned it another 1/8 inch to no avail. Then it hit me. Work hardened. Basically spring steel/brass.
My loads are on the low end. 51-52 gns of reloder 19, pushing a 130 gn sierra BT. Primers look fine, casings seem ok, other than a hard lift. I've actually had this up to 54 gns but grouping was terrible. No signs of over pressure. This is why I'm reasoning work hardened cases.
So I quit there, noticing the space in the shell holder, figuring the best thing to do was to put this brass up until I try learning annealing. Sound like a sound plan?

[Walkalong]

Annealing works best before the brass gets work hardened, but it will still soften the brass. I learned this many years ago with .222 Mag brass. I was neck sizing only and the cases started getting hard to chamber. Annealing fixed it. I might have been able to just FL size them and been OK.

[bob4]

Thanks Walkalong. I appreciate all your help as well as everyone elses here.

[SlamFire1]

Are you setting up your dies with a case gage? If you are pushing the shoulder back 0.005" or more you will get case head separations in a couple of reloads. Cases are not designed to stretch more than the typical distance between Go and NO Go once. For the 308 the reject gage is 0.008" over Go and with that much stretch there must be a lot of case breakage.

Set up your dies with a case gage, size to gage minimum if you use that brass in a number of rifles but if you use it in only one rifle, bump the shoulder around 0.003".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Reloading/ReducedWilsongagemeasuringnew308bra.jpg