Musket ID


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pohill
November 8, 2012, 10:47 AM
This musket is labeled in the store as a "German musketoon, .69 caliber."
I think it's British but I can't find one on line. I think it was a flintlock in 1836 and converted in 1843. The stock is pretty short for the size of the gun.
Any ideas?


http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF4244.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF4242.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF4246.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF4240.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF4238.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF4241.jpg

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Deamon
November 8, 2012, 11:29 AM
I am by no means a professional but I'm leaning more towards French in origin or early American going by the front barrel bands and caliber. Specifically the front "sight" is very Springfield-ish to me. Can we get a picture of the full rifle to illustrate the stock design? I'm sure someone with far more experience than I will weigh in soon.

pohill
November 8, 2012, 11:44 AM
I didn't take a pic of the entire gun - wish I did.
This gun by Asa Waters is similiar.
http://www.shilohrelics.com/cgi-bin/Display_Item.asp?104265
The proofmark next to the date 1836 looks British.

Deamon
November 8, 2012, 12:04 PM
German M.1809/39 rifled musket
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2010/prussianm180939musketbx8.jpg&imgrefurl=http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/topic/14568/German-M-1809-39-rifled-musket&h=262&w=1280&sz=99&tbnid=DPnCdsKyMZ08oM:&tbnh=24&tbnw=118&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dgerman%2Bmusket%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=german+musket&usg=__s-Zubgh2vWU9mUcn6xAR2izLqGQ=&docid=xgIKBRg9Uz-GBM&sa=X&ei=R9ebUNqmM-Xo2gWUyYDABg&ved=0CDkQ9QEwAg&dur=1028

Looks like that one huh? I reread and you did say musketoon.

pohill
November 8, 2012, 12:16 PM
Yeah, it does look like the gun you linked to.
"lockplate with Neisse & 1836"

So, it is German. Hmmm. I didn't give the store enough credit.
Thanks for that info.

Jim K
November 8, 2012, 01:42 PM
Neisse was a Prussian arsenal. I can't find any mention of musketoons specifically, but some 165,000 Prussian muskets were purchased by the U.S. during the Civil War. The number included both Model 1809 smoothbore muskets converted to percussion (some were rifled) and Model 1839 rifle muskets made as percussion. That musket was a conversion, originally made in 1836, and converted in 1843.

Caliber is usually given as ".71 - .72"; .69 caliber substitute standard ammunition was issued with them.

Jim

pohill
November 8, 2012, 04:27 PM
Thanks for the info. Are these muskets rare? I haven't seen one before.

kBob
November 8, 2012, 05:40 PM
Interesting how close to the gun in the links this one is while yours is rack number 457 the one pictured is 405 and in the same 6th Company of the 11th Landwehr.

Is there a bayonet stud? I can not see one on your pictures or the linked ones.

Thanks for sharing this one with us.

-kBob

kBob
November 8, 2012, 05:53 PM
Ah I see the one you have has been shortened a good 6 inches or more. Those bands are much closer together.

-kBob

pohill
November 8, 2012, 06:03 PM
I have the musket on hold for a week. I figured I'd do some research on it (I'd never seen one before). When I go back to look at it, I'll check for the bayonet stud and other markings, features, etc. The "wrist" has a crack that might keep me from shooting it unless I repaired it. I think the stock might have been cut down or else it's just short - my face was pretty close to the hammer when I held it. Interesting gun at a pretty low price.

kBob
November 8, 2012, 08:21 PM
Local pawn shop had an US 1816 conversion, with the nipple directly into the barrel and the holes in the sideplate filled and pan ground off they wanted $600 for. Given that I dither over spending $100 it was still there when I left, it had been there a month or so when I finally found out what they would take for it and it has been a month since I was there or so.

I love handling these old guns and imagining what they might say if they could talk.

I wonder what the morale of troops being sent of to fight against 1853 Enfield eqivilants, and Sharps and such must been like. "Wheee! I got a an overly long, heavy, welded up, old rusty gas pipe to fight with !" just does not sound right.

How does one say "Buck and Ball" in High German anyway?

-kBob

pohill
November 8, 2012, 09:11 PM
Now that I know this musket had been cut down alot, I'll probably stay away from it. I'm guessing someone used it as a shotgun. It's still interesting but I like to shoot the old ones.

kBob
November 9, 2012, 10:54 AM
Just again dragged out an old Dixie catalog and Turner's list of Muskets of US ACW purchase lists 59,918 of the "Prussian rifle" and 81,642 of the "Prussian smoothbore musket" as being bought by the US.

Saddly no other information was in the catalog.

-kBob

hawkeye74
November 9, 2012, 07:12 PM
This gun is not rare but not common either. Need more pictures to better evaluate it but definately cut down. Several were cutdown by the Confederacy but no definitive records that can tell you how many or what configuration.

Where in N. Fla. would that be? I know some folks that are interested in buying for a parts gun.

kBob
November 9, 2012, 08:25 PM
The shop is in Alachua which is north of Gainesville on I-75.I can not recall the name of the shop off hand but they are west of the interchange on the way to High Springs on the south side of the road in a little strip with a convinence store the pawn shop and a bar just west of Wendy's...... but dang if I can remember the name.

They are likely to be a a show in Newberry tomorrow and Sunday and that shop is owned by the same folks that have a shop in Newberry sort of on the SE cornor of 41/27 at THE Newberry light. If I make it to the show and see the usual suspect I will ask about the gun and get their name.

Like most pawn shops most stuff is over priced though their prices are out the door, but they occassionally have decent deals. As usual my problem is I leave to think anbout a deal and when I come back it is gone.

No doubt if I make the gunshow tomorrow I will insist on not buying aything until I have seen it all and so miss every thing I was interested in. The one time I determined to just buy stuff as I saw it I missed "THE DEAL OF A LIFE TIME" ROA (can we say lovely blued one with Ivory polymer grips and holster for two and a half just two years ago?)because by then I had a needs work .22 rifle, a .44 "colt 1851" Pietta Brasser, and darn little cash in my pocket when I saw the ROA.

-kBob

sharps59
November 9, 2012, 10:07 PM
Post on the N-SSA Board. they should be able to tell you anything you would want to know about it, including value

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