Are there any bad ARs out there?


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aderden
November 8, 2012, 06:42 PM
With the recent disappointment on Tuesday and talk of the UN arms treaty possibly headed to Congress, I'm planning on buying my first AR. Are there any...disreputable manufacturers out there? Or are they all quality, there sure are alot of them.

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creeper1956
November 8, 2012, 06:56 PM
You're right... it's a BIG list. :rolleyes: I think your paranoia might be getting the better of you, but I might be in the minority to make that call.

Practically every maker will have a few black eyes... especially on the interweb.

Go out and look around at what's for sale in your area... including the big box stores. You can come home with some pretty nice quality, entry level ARs for $750 give or take... made by well known (and a few less known, but still nice quality, if you don't know ARs) brands.
For your first AR, avoid used guns, guns built by "some dude" at the local gun show and even ARs tossed together from the cheapest parts money can buy, built by your local gun shop.

If you're still not sure after looking around, come back with the brands and models of rifles that you think might be what you're looking for... then "the great hive mind" will have an easier time of sorting through the possibles.

C

tyeo098
November 8, 2012, 06:57 PM
If its in spec, its in spec.
DPMS's lpk has had some issues with spec...ness.

Lowers are lowers are lowers. They are all alum forged.
Barrels and bolts are where you dont want to skimp for reliability.

2 stage triggers are nice.

aderden
November 8, 2012, 07:26 PM
Paranoia? Maybe a little. But i don't trust that guy except when he says anything against our constitutional rights. He did state intentions of reinstating the "assault" weapons ban ( quotations intentional) in the second debate.

I'm also familiar with the anatomy of the armalite, and depending on brand, prices go from 700 till 1200 in Birmingham. But is there a, say, Hi-point, of theAR community?

aubie515
November 8, 2012, 07:27 PM
Of course there's good and bad. Me personally...I'd never buy or recommend anything from Hesse/Vulcan/Blackthorne.

Many companies don't make their own AR15 parts. Make sure parts are mil spec and from a reliable vendor and you should not have any issues.

aderden
November 8, 2012, 07:40 PM
Hey war eagle! And thx aubie.

CZ223
November 9, 2012, 07:40 AM
Back 7 or 8 years ago, before I spent a lot of time on forums like this, I decided I wanted an AR. At a local gun show I saw Bushmasters going for $900 and Olympics going for $650. A week later I bought a 16 heavy barreled OLY for $600 new from the same dealer. It is incredibly accurate, sub 1/2 MOA with good ammo, and has served me well. I bought a second OLY a couple years later and, have pretty much the same experience with that one. The only negative for either one is that their chambers are quite tight which accounts for terrific accuracy but also causes jambs after about 350 rounds. These guns need to be kept clean. I have since bought a Bushmaster and a S&W M&P 15 with short light barrels. These guns are not as accurate but will feed pretty much anything.
If I had read all of the bad stuff written about OLY's I probably would never have bought one. That would have been a shame since they have given me countless hours of fun. So, if you are looking for a plinker, there are a lot of good guns out there that will serve you well including the DPMS frowally world for under $600. If you are looking for a battle rifle or a competition rifle that you are going to put several hundred rounds though at a time, you should look at the higher end guns.

gotigers
November 9, 2012, 08:15 AM
I will not buy Olympic, Hesse, Vulcan or blackthorn. The last 3 are the same company. Olympic is not as bad as the last 3, but i have seen to many issues.

I read people saying DPMS isn't anygood, but i have never seen one not work as designed. I don't have a complete DPMS, but i buy a lot of DPMS parts. Their parts all worked as designed. I have a DPMS MK12 barrel. It shoots MOA. The DPMS i have shot, all worked. A lot of people lately have been liking the .308 they sell. If you don't want a DPMS remember that DPMS, Remington, AAC and Bushmaster are owned by the same company now. I wouldn't worry about it.

There are a lot of new manufacturers. I would stick with a name you recognize.

bodam
November 9, 2012, 08:20 AM
I also have an Olympic. Had an issue with a crack in the upper. I bought it used. Called them, and shipped the entire gun to them. They replaced the upper no question, and upgraded it since they didn't have the lower end uppper in stock. All for free. Great CS, I would definitely buy again.

Skylerbone
November 9, 2012, 08:40 AM
If you ask a forum what to avoid you'll never find a brand without detractors. There are however a healthy number of good choices, some for specific activities like varmint hunting, competition and law enforcement. Always helpful to know what your intent is and what expectations you have in terms of reliability, accuracy, weight, etc.

If you're simply buying one to set aside JIC and on the "cheap" there's a lot of buzz over the new Windhams. I had the opportunity to inspect one a few weeks back and it left a positive impression.

CZ223
November 9, 2012, 06:46 PM
Bushmaster before they got bought out. Thery are made in the same place by a lot of the same people that made them before Cirburus bought the company along with Remington, Marlin, etc.

Ky Larry
November 9, 2012, 07:12 PM
Saw a guy at the range last year trying to pry the bolt open on his AR with a tire iron. Don't know what brand it was. Like every thing else, there are some bad apples out there.

ApacheCoTodd
November 9, 2012, 07:47 PM
Customer service...

Bad customer service usually results from an item being pooh and then not supported.

Good customer service is often from a particular item being pooh and being supported.

Having been through the California ugliness I can say there are scenarios where "good" CS won't do you a doggone bit of good after the hammer falls.

Look to the established manufacturers regardless of cost that make the most people happy the first time around 'cause they may not be available to you in the worst of scenarios.

Warp
November 9, 2012, 07:58 PM
With the recent disappointment on Tuesday and talk of the UN arms treaty possibly headed to Congress, I'm planning on buying my first AR. Are there any...disreputable manufacturers out there? Or are they all quality, there sure are alot of them.

Tons.

Search. Read. Search. Read.

You'll see.

Warp
November 9, 2012, 07:59 PM
If its in spec, its in spec.

What is that spec?

Could you provide it, please?

I'd like to see if my rifle passes.

ol' scratch
November 9, 2012, 08:17 PM
First off, you are just a little paranoid. Don't buy the rifle because you fear the UN treaty. It has nothing to do with the US domstic firearms.

Second, purchase an AR because they are a damn fine rifle.

I have built mine. I have used parts from various manufacturers including Rock River, Colt, Armalite, Danial Defense, Stag and other parts. If you want a tactical carbine, I personally would look at Stag if I wasn't going to build one, and wanted one closer to cheap due to the quality of the parts. You seem to get a great rifle for the cash. You have to get past the Wookie on the side of the receiver, however. That said, if you have a little more to spend, pick up a Danial Defense or a BCM. Great rifles. Have you considered building one? They are a snap.

Kurt_D
November 9, 2012, 08:19 PM
Run don't walk away from: Blackthorn, Hesse, Vulcan arms and Century A2s

Stay away from: Olympic, anything with plastic or cast receivers

I don't recommend: budget DPMS (just a preference)

I do recommend for complete guns: Armalite, Bushmaster (either pre or post Remington), Colt, RRA, Sig, Stag and Windham; there are others but I haven't messed with them.

mljdeckard
November 9, 2012, 08:20 PM
There are some snobs who THINK there are.

Most ARs will work for MOST shooters in MOST applications MOST of the time. Don't get too wound over brands and 'the chart'.

Warp
November 9, 2012, 08:34 PM
I would consider: Colt, Bravo Company Manufacturing, Noveske, Daniel Defense, LMT, LaRue, Spikes, Smith and Wesson, Windham, Palmetto State Armory, and some others.

Figure out what the specs mean. Figure out what you want in, and out of, the rifle.

Example: If you don't know what twist rate you want for the barrel, you aren't ready to select a rifle yet. If you don't know what HPT or MPI testing is, and whether or not you want to pay for it, likewise not ready to make a purchase.

burk
November 9, 2012, 10:26 PM
While a lot of guys rag on Bushy's I've owned several, and sold plenty (I use to be in Police Supply). Had very few returns, and m personal guns have never had a failure shooting mostly 5.56. The only one I'd stay away from personally is the Carbon 15 (no experience with Olympic). But the carbon/poly receiver on the Carbon 15's has flex issues and the screw in the scope mounts also strip on them.

bowserb
November 9, 2012, 10:42 PM
One word: Colt 6920. OK that's two words to describe a no worries purchase. It's the standard. I didn't buy one, but I should have.

jim243
November 9, 2012, 10:52 PM
OK that's two words

It is two words, "OVER PRICED", but not a bad gun.

Jim

Warp
November 9, 2012, 10:55 PM
It is two words, "OVER PRICED", but not a bad gun.

Jim

There is nothing whatsoever over priced about paying ~$1,000 for a Colt 6920. That's beyond silly to even consider saying.

(you could get them online for that, from reputable businesses, a couple weeks ago...I haven't looked since the election)

jim243
November 9, 2012, 11:00 PM
That's beyond silly to even consider saying.

You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine. And your statement is beyond good manors.

Jim

nathan
November 9, 2012, 11:07 PM
Get the Rock River , usually less than a $ 1000 . Their two stage trigger is pretty nice.

steveb4c
November 9, 2012, 11:11 PM
i'm one of those "silly" people who bought a Colt 6920....i don't "feel" silly at all about it though.

USAF_Vet
November 9, 2012, 11:20 PM
Man, I don't even want to know what some people think of my AR.

jim243
November 9, 2012, 11:20 PM
Decent AR's can be bought in the $750 to $850 dollar range that will provide you with just as good service and parts.

Use your own judgement as to what to spend. If you want a top tier AR look at the Noveske or Daniel Defence lines of rifles. Yes, they will cost a little more but are worth it.

Jim

357SIG
November 10, 2012, 02:02 AM
Google "colt 6920 problems" and you will find about a million threads about issues with what you think is God's gift to the AR world. Everything breaks, and there are lemons on the market from every manufacturer. Stick with the ones mentioned above and you will be fine. Most of these manufacturers have put out stuff that has been torture tested by some LE agency and adopted. Don't worry about reliability as much as features for the price.

BTW, "Colt 6920" is actually a word and a number.

HorseSoldier
November 10, 2012, 02:39 AM
For your first AR, avoid used guns, guns built by "some dude" at the local gun show and even ARs tossed together from the cheapest parts money can buy, built by your local gun shop.

This is a good point. I've known a lot of guys using home built ARs they did themselves or got from somebody they know who built them. Most of the time I don't know of any issues, but the most jacked up ARs I've ever seen were home built by somebody who either didn't know what they were doing or cut corners.

Cosmoline
November 10, 2012, 03:45 AM
I think that AR-15 owners are a bit spoiled. There do seem to be some disreputable outfits around, but the main ones all produce quality products from what I've seen. Whether or not your intended use is going to call for mil spec levels of QC is really the question. If it is, then go with the top tier. Otherwise DPMS and similar mid-level outfits seem fine.

powder
November 10, 2012, 06:51 AM
Meh, it's a tough market. You are more likely to get ripped off with over-priced "Tacticool" companies, selling you a rifle that is more for war action.

So, what is your rifle's purpose and what is your budget range? (Those are better questions.)

helotaxi
November 10, 2012, 08:40 AM
Meh, it's a tough market. You are more likely to get ripped off with over-priced "Tacticool" companies, selling you a rifle that is more for war action.I wouldn't call it ripped off as much as I would call it overpaying for "features" that you don't need and will never use. Paying extra for a full quad rail when at most you need 1-2 sections of rail 2" long at the 3 and 6 o'clock for a light and forward grip is a perfect example. Customizable forearms that allow you to add only the rail sections that you need are much lighter, more convenient and less expensive. Likewise back-up irons can get really pricey and 99% of shooters have no use for them.

conhntr
November 10, 2012, 12:58 PM
Colt or bcm for 1000$. Once you figure in; optic, practice ammo, SD ammo, mags, accessories etc you will be in the 3000+ range anwyway. an extra 300$ to get a quality gun is worth it


Or you can joing the "bushy" is just as good chorus.

heavydluxe
November 10, 2012, 03:07 PM
I own one centerfire rifle: An AR15 I built in stages, with eager assistance from my son.

I wound up purchasing everything through Palmetto State Armory, beginning with the lower, following with the parts kits, some upgrades, and finally a complete upper (I chicken out there). In my admittedly limited experience, their mil-spec parts are just that and compare favorably to the parts I've seen in a number of other folks ARs I've come across at the range. Their prices, particularly if you're willing to be patient and snipe at sales, seem *very* competitive.

So far, the rifle functions VERY well. It has not malfunctioned with anything run through (including cheap bulk ammo like Tula and Wolf). And the accuracy has been excellent with more appropriate ammunition.

The only thing I've been disappointed in was the carry handle sights that I added on since I couldn't afford an optic when the upper was purchased. The big adjustment dial, under the rear peep, is very sticky in a couple positions.

Aside from that, I would speak very highly of them - including the interactions I've had with their customer service.

All that offered to make this point: If you go with a generally reputable supplier (most of whom have been discussed here), I don't think you'll have a problem. But, YMMV.

bowserb
November 10, 2012, 06:25 PM
Google "colt 6920 problems" and you will find about a million threads about issues with what you think is God's gift to the AR world. Everything breaks, and there are lemons on the market from every manufacturer. Stick with the ones mentioned above and you will be fine. Most of these manufacturers have put out stuff that has been torture tested by some LE agency and adopted. Don't worry about reliability as much as features for the price.
BTW, "Colt 6920" is actually a word and a number.
Google "Toyota Corolla problems", "Apple computer problems", "Acme Brick problems". If it sells in significant numbers, there will be a bunch of people with problems.

I have a Wyndham Weaponry HBC model AR. The HBC is for heavy barrel, to stand up under continuous fire and not warp. Wyndham is a company started a couple years ago. It is in the Wyndham, Maine plant where Bushmasters were made until the Greedom Group moved production to Remington in New York. The founder of Wyndham is the guy who rescued Bushmaster from bankruptcy in the 1970's. He built it into a good name, then sold to Greedom Group with a five year lease on the plant and a five year non-compete for himself. When the lease was about up, Greedom announced they were moving and any employees who wanted to move to New York were welcome to apply for jobs at the Remington plant.

The lease ran out, the owner of the plant and former owner of Bushmaster decided to start up again. He had a trained workforce from which to choose the best new employees, and he had the desire (so they say) to reverse the corner cutting that Greedom Group had phased in over the last five years. It's a great story. The reviews I've read about the rifles are excellent. The rifle has a lifetime warranty, although I've had no opportunity to test it. My experience with the Wyndham HBC is no problems of any kind in the last year. The price was around $300 less than the Colt 6920. I can think of nothing bad about this rifle.

That said, I suggest that you buy a Colt. Three years from now, the $300 will have been forgotten, but you'll still have a Colt. Colt is the original manufacturer of the AR15/M16/M4 rifles. The gun has 50 years of testing behind it and has been slowly upgraded by actual combat users experience (I was one of them in 1967-68) and is the culmination of that 50 years of development and evolution. Even though I have nothing bad to say about the Wyndham, I still wish I had bought a Colt, and unless Comrade Obama shuts us down, I probably will in the next couple years.

Warp
November 10, 2012, 09:28 PM
Google "Toyota Corolla problems", "Apple computer problems", "Acme Brick problems". If it sells in significant numbers, there will be a bunch of people with problems.

Absolutely

And then you have to play the game where you figure out where the fault lies for the problem

357SIG
November 11, 2012, 12:16 AM
Yes, it shows they do have some of the very same problems as the others, even though they are produced in lower numbers. Furthermore, there is nothing to say a Colt will run better than any of the others in the same conditions. As I said in another thread, all of the big names have submitted models for torture testing during endurance trials by various LE agencies. RRA beat out everyone else to win the DEA contract. Bushmaster supplies numerous state agencies, including TX DPS, who beat up numerous ARs during testing, only to pick BM. These stories go on and on. The simple fact is that the main differences between the Colt and others are in the QC testing before leaving the company for sale. Mil-spec is great, but does not mean it is the minimum requirement for something to work in combat conditions. This is pretty much proven by LE torture testing. This is pretty much proven by countless examples of different brands that make it through fast-paced carbine courses. I'm willing to bet that they would work as well as the Colts and FNs in the deserts of the Middle East as well.

Colt is a name, just like any other. Colts are good rifles, no question. Colts, however, are plagued with the same problems as the others out there, even with the extra QC measures. Because other mfg's rifles ar not always individually tested and magnafluxed, some feel they are of lesser quality. This is a very simplistic way to look at things, and anyone who uses their brain can see the fault in it. For one, just because other companies batch test their parts, does not mean they would fail if individually tested; it just means they weren't each checked. So far, there have not been any widespread complaints or problems from this. (Ever hear of a trend of broken carriers, bolts, or blown barrels? Of course not!) Bushmaster follows this method, and has won many a contract to produce rifles for actual use by people who use them for a living. I'm sure Windham now does the same. Where we see more issues is with assembly, something not foreign to Colt either.

Just think about things as a whole before saying that Colt is somehow superior. It's just funny when someone says something like "they use CMV steel barrels," or "they do MPI testing" without even knowing what that really means, and the implications of doing it or not. Hell, we have a guy posting how he has an awesome, flawless $800 Windham rifle, but feels he should have bought a Colt for $300 more instead without reason. Does that follow any logic, or make any sense? Of course not!

MachIVshooter
November 11, 2012, 01:10 AM
I'm also familiar with the anatomy of the armalite

AR does stand for ArmaLite, but do remember that it is also a current company (4th iteration). When referring to the AR generically, just say AR. Otherwise, most will think you're speaking specifically of an ArmaLite AR (M-15 is their designation)

Rail Driver
November 11, 2012, 01:23 AM
Tons.

Search. Read. Search. Read.

You'll see.
Pretty sure he asked here because dozens, if not hundreds of members here have already done that reading and searching, and just as many have had actual hands on experience with the various makes and models.

I notice that any time anybody ever asks a question on this site, at least one person chimes in with a snide comment about the search function. If you don't want to help or don't have anything useful to add to the conversation, why bother replying at all?

-----------------

Back on topic, I've had bad luck with DPMS LPKs - I've broken no less than 4 DPMS hammer pins (3 came in guns I bought or traded for, one was a replacement part I purchased later). I'll also second the tight chambers on Olympic Arms guns.

I've had a fantastic experience with my Spike's AR.
You can't go wrong with a Colt or one of the other top shelf names.

I have had little personal experience with Del-Ton, but my next door neighbor has one he loves but always seems to have problems with.

Warp
November 11, 2012, 09:37 PM
Pretty sure he asked here because dozens, if not hundreds of members here have already done that reading and searching, and just as many have had actual hands on experience with the various makes and models.

I notice that any time anybody ever asks a question on this site, at least one person chimes in with a snide comment about the search function. If you don't want to help or don't have anything useful to add to the conversation, why bother replying at all?

Because when I post my experiences, the guys with an inferiority complex over their rifle's brands get upset.

Particularly the DPMS guys.

I don't have the "care" to get into it over and over again. Let people do their own research, there is a crap ton here, with new threads every 6 hours or so.

HorseSoldier
November 11, 2012, 10:25 PM
AR does stand for ArmaLite, but do remember that it is also a current company (4th iteration). When referring to the AR generically, just say AR. Otherwise, most will think you're speaking specifically of an ArmaLite AR (M-15 is their designation)

Or if they're British or Irish they'll probably think you're talking about an AR-18.

Skylerbone
November 12, 2012, 01:20 AM
I've yet to lose sleep over others' pedestrian evaluations of my mental state. Don't cry in my beer or long to spread my ignorance and poor choices with others. I fully realize mine are the rare exception that function, that I bought to be tacticool and that I haven't finished running my first box of Tula through to actually test function.

From my Rock River to my Model 700, M&Ps to Colt 1911s, Model 70 to Marlin 25N and even my trusty 1100, my Knight muzzleloader, my revolvers, my S&Ws, Kahr and 10/22, the Beretta and all the others as well: every firearm I own is a POS. How do I know? Someone on the Internet told me so.

I'm not a bit shy about expressing my dissatisfaction with firearms and gear that does not perform regardless of brand. I don't offer up advice in hope of seeing other folks waste money and fail. I don't claim all suggestions are useful but most are based on my experience rather than an armchair psychologist's blanket diagnosis.

FWIW, my RRA has yet to experience a failure of any kind. I know...because I don't push it as hard as the Noveske crowd.

Ignition Override
November 12, 2012, 01:53 AM
nathan:
A friend has the basic Colt AR, about twenty years old and in almost mint condition. He seldom uses it.
I had hoped that he has a "Green Box" AR :scrutiny:, but that's not the case.

Having never used another AR, my only comment was that the trigger feels pretty tight, but I've read that some AR trigger groups can be modified.

Watching people zap feral pigs from helicopters in TX (now they can be chartered) on Youtube increases my curiosity about the AR-15.
"Freedom.av.com": pilot Matt Ashcraft:cool:, shooter Vance Ballew:cool: with his Rock River AR, are my favorite crew among these
combat helicopter missions, and were near the Brazos River.

Quentin
November 12, 2012, 02:49 AM
Quite a few bad ARs have been mentioned already so I think it's better now to recommend the really great ones - such as BCM, Daniel Defense and PSA (I have one of each). I don't have a Colt but would confidently add it to a "best AR" list.

I also have an ArmaLite which is a decent AR but not as good as the four I mentioned. I suspect most sub-$1000 ARs you'll encounter in the LGS also fall in this "Tier 2" or "Tier 3" grouping. Any thing less would be in the lowest category like Vulcan/Hesse/Blackthorne. I would also avoid any polymer receivered AR such as the Bushmaster Carbon 15.

Almost no doubt Noveske, LMT, KAC and a few others also deserve top billing but I don't have experience with them firsthand.

Welding Rod
November 12, 2012, 12:10 PM
The only AR I ever saw that had a major issue that was not related to ammo or magazines was a Bushmaster. It was bought new maybe 4 or 5 years ago (not by me).

It would feed the rounds too low to allow them to enter the chamber. The owner tried several magazines, then I let him try a few of mine (NHMTG among others). No dice. I tried it as well to make sure it wasn't operator error. It wasn't. It was certifiably FUBAR in the manufacturing process. The magazines would latch in place, but they wouldn't sit high enough in the lower reciever. It went home from its first time out without firing a single shot.

I have owned plenty of RRAs and like them alot in 223 Wylde / 556. Colt's are good too. BCM makes good stuff. I wasn't impressed at all with the two 450 Bushmasters I bought, and later sold. I only comment on stuff I actually have owned so I can't say about any others.

I will add that the only 223/556 malfs not related to bad magazines that I have encountered were with my BCM uppers (20") Evidently they aren't fond of softer shooting loads - Sellior & Bellot 223 specifically. The RRAs have all ate everything I have tried.

Edit: I also owned a CMMG upper that had significant issues. To their credit CMMG promptly made it right, however after seeing what could get out of their shop, I wouldn't risk buying another when there are other options.

Kyle M.
November 12, 2012, 12:36 PM
I've owned a colt 6920, armalite national match, dpms ap4, olympic, m4 style and 3 bushmasters. The busmaster varminter and dpms ap4 have been the best of the bunch ymmv.

Sky
November 12, 2012, 01:04 PM
Own or have owned Delton, CMMG, Bushmaster, Model 1, and have shot many others for various purposes messing about. If the price was right I would buy any of them again if I needed or wanted an AR. Quality control for most is quite good but as others have said you can get a bad anything. If you get a good barrel just about anything else can be changed for a few bucks and minutes of your time if you are dissatisfied or it breaks.

Old Dog
November 12, 2012, 02:06 PM
Kudos to all thread participants here for such a (relatively) civil thread on a topic that normally becomes obnoxiously contentious (on certain AR-specific forum, for example).

My (pre-Remington) Bushmaster LW Patrolman's Carbine has been perfect. My S&W M&P-15A has been superb. My two Colt's LE-6920 M-4s are awesome. My department's Colt's are trouble-free and highly accurate. Some buddies who've recently bought Windham rifles are happy with them ... and both these guys own Daniel Defense or BCM guns ...

My experience with DPMS, abysmal. Based on that, I could not in good conscience recommend that company -- and this was not even a heavily used rifle. Ditto Olympic Arms. They still have fans up here, being local, but ...

And what -- no pics in this thread?

No reason to get into brand-bashing here, though. As others suggest, if all you need is a plinker -- with the caveat that you learn basic AR maintenance and repair -- you just might be well-served with a DPMS, Del-Ton or whatever. But -- if you can find the wherewithal to scrape up that extra $300 or so ... yeah, consider a Colt, BCM, DD, Spike's ...

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh577/Beau360/DSCN0152.jpg
Colt LE-6920 M-4 in MagPul trim w/Surefire Mini-Scout light

Chemistry Guy
November 12, 2012, 03:03 PM
I have 2 ARs... one is a Colt that I use sparingly and the other is a Doublestar that I got from Bud's for $650 or so a few years back. I use the hell out of the Doublestar, shooting lots of Wolf ammo, doing mag dumps until the barrel is too hot to touch, getting dirt in the action, and generally abusing it in ways that I wouldn't abuse my Colt. As far as function goes, I can't tell the difference, although I will say I am slightly more confident in using the Doublestar because I have seen it take the abuse, but I am also confident that the Colt will hold its value and I am not sorry that I bought it in any way.

GrumpyBiker
November 14, 2012, 08:41 AM
"Man, I don't even want to know what some people think of my AR.
__________________
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium "---USAF VET


I'm with you chief!
I actually love my DTI Sierra 316/A3 MOE.
Haven't heard them mentioned.


I need to get an updated pic! Also looks like I'm not uploading my pics correctly!

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww162/GrumpyBiker_photos/th_photo-151.jpg (http://s716.photobucket.com/albums/ww162/GrumpyBiker_photos/?action=view&current=photo-151.jpg)

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww162/GrumpyBiker_photos/th_photo-152.jpg (http://s716.photobucket.com/albums/ww162/GrumpyBiker_photos/?action=view&current=photo-152.jpg)

gaweidert
November 14, 2012, 12:15 PM
Olympic is fine. Mine is 7 years old with thousands of rounds through it. Early Olympic models with the cast receivers did have problems. Their barrels do have a well justified reputation for accuracy.

One ARFCOM recently a member posted about the brand new Colt he recently got. The bolt had a major void in the face and the key was not even staked to the bolt carrier group. Colt apologists were quick to jump in with the "anybody can make a lemon" argument. If they had seen the same thing in an Olympic, Del-ton or DPMS rifle they would have jumped all over it.

As stated above, Hesse, Vulcan and Blackthorne are all reiterations of the same company that has a well earned reputation for terrible quality. They are only good for recycling so the metal can be used in a better rifle.

Warp
November 14, 2012, 12:19 PM
I would never spend money on an Olympic, and suggest the same to others.

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