MI law?


PDA






ontarget
November 8, 2012, 10:23 PM
Does anyone know if MI is an open carry state? And where would I find a good resource for the MI firearms laws?

If you enjoyed reading about "MI law?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
USAF_Vet
November 8, 2012, 10:29 PM
Yes, Michigan is an open carry state. www.Handgunlaw.us is a pretty great resource.

creitzel
November 8, 2012, 10:37 PM
Yes Michigan is an open carry state, but be aware that if you enter a vehicle, you will be considered carrying concealed.

The source that USAF_vet gave you is a good one. Also, the Michigan state police site is pretty good at posting firearms related information. Here'sa link:

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654---,00.html

hermannr
November 9, 2012, 11:41 AM
MI is an OC state. Best source for OC information is www.opencarry.org. They have state specific information, a good general forum, and state specific forums for each state.

Best source for general concealed carry is www.handgunlaw.us

Clipper
November 9, 2012, 04:45 PM
You must also have a CPL to carry in any place with a liquor license, like package stores, stop-n-robs and stores like wally world that sell beer & wine.

USAF_Vet
November 9, 2012, 04:55 PM
You must also have a CPL to carry in any place with a liquor license, like package stores, stop-n-robs and stores like wally world that sell beer & wine.
Source on this? Because I have not read anything in Michigan law that reads this way, and I have OC'd in just about every one of the places you just mentioned and got not as much as a second look. It's legal to open carry in a bar, pub or tavern, but not Wal-Mart?

Please check your facts and cite a source before posting.

Lizard1911
November 9, 2012, 05:20 PM
USAVet: I'm pretty certain you may ONLY open carry in a bar or tavern, ONLY if you have a CPL. There are two separate codes that interplay here..
One may not conceal in those places listed as prohibited, but with a cpl, one may open carry. I can look up MCL's if you need me too. Also check out
MSP Legal Update page.

USAF_Vet
November 9, 2012, 05:22 PM
Lizard, you are correct. You can OC with a CPL in otherwise prohibited areas. But the gas station, liquor store, grocery store, etc are not prohibited, and one can OC without a permit in any one of those locations.

Zane
November 9, 2012, 07:32 PM
But the gas station, liquor store, grocery store, etc are not prohibited, and one can OC without a permit in any one of those locations.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(sorbjf55qipeje45j3biqt55))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-234d

Without a CPL, you cannot carry in or on the premises of any place licensed by the liquor control board.

Ragnar Danneskjold
November 9, 2012, 07:42 PM
I've always thought that was funny how the two laws played out in tandem. A CPL holder is barred from carrying concealed in pistol free zones. But due to open carry laws and being licensed by the state, you can open carry in most "pistol free zones"...if you have a CPL.

I'm pretty sure none of that was intended when they wrote the law, but due to the way they worded it, that's the way it works out.

Of course it would be a hell of a lot simpler if they just let adults carry how and wherever they want and just prosecuted people for actually committing crimes.

hermannr
November 9, 2012, 10:58 PM
Montana has somewhat similar...you cannot CC into a restaraunt that serves, or bar, but you can OC. If you need a CHL, or not. depends on where the restaraunt or bar is (town wise).

smalls
November 10, 2012, 03:39 AM
You must also have a CPL to carry in any place with a liquor license, like package stores, stop-n-robs and stores like wally world that sell beer & wine.

No, you may not carry concealed in a "bar or tavern which derives most of its sales from alcohol sold for consumption on the premise".

You may carry openly, but must be a CPL holder. Walmart, or your corner liquor store do not sell any booze for consumption on the premises, let alone most of their sales.

F-111 John
November 10, 2012, 05:12 AM
Without a CPL, you cannot carry in or on the premises of any place licensed by the liquor control board.

Any place that sells beer and wine is licensed by the liquor control board, and without a CPL is designated a gun-free zone. With a CPL, you may carry concealed or open, but must only carry open in bars and taverns.

Citation: Michigan 28-425o (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jnqg54rrish1pi455plpm545))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-425o):

28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon or portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsections (1) and (2); violation; penalties.

(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business.

As to the OP's question, here is a guideline written by the Michigan State Police to familiarize officers with open carry in Michigan:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

Clipper
November 10, 2012, 10:41 AM
See the link posted in post 9. There are two laws in play here, and both apply. You go into Wally World OCing without a CPL, and some cop is feeling froggy, and you'll be making a trip to jail.

I've been OCing (with CPL) for about 4 years+ and have made it my business to know the law backwards and forwards. You should visit www.migunowners.org and post your questions on the legal beagle forum, where you can get the real skinny from real lawyers who specialize in gun law...

F-111 John
November 10, 2012, 03:51 PM
I see where I was in error. My post has been edited to remove incorrect information, and thank you Clipper for the correction.

smalls
November 11, 2012, 04:42 PM
Thanks for pointing that out, Clipper. I've never seen or heard that mentioned anywhere before.

Ragnar Danneskjold
November 11, 2012, 05:18 PM
You go into Wally World OCing without a CPL, and some cop is feeling froggy, and you'll be making a trip to jail.

Perhaps, but not legally. That would be an illegal arrest.

F-111 John
November 11, 2012, 09:13 PM
No, it would be a very legal arrest, if the Wally World store were licensed to sell beer or wine. As Clipper pointed out, the statute that Zane linked to in post 9 says:

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.

Sec. 234d.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

In Michigan, Open Carry is prohibited in any store that sells beer, wine, or liquor unless the person has a CPL. Then the person may carry open or concealed, except concealed carry is not allowed in bars or taverns that earn most of their income from the sale of liquor by the glass for consumption on the premesis.

HOWARD J
November 11, 2012, 09:34 PM
When you are rifle deer hunting in MI during deer season Nov 15-30
Do you find that some bars will not allow any kind of carry ?????

Also---can you drink in the bar when you open carry ?????

Havok7416
November 11, 2012, 10:02 PM
You can't drink while carrying in Michigan although I don't have any specific sources available to back that up.

F-111 John
November 11, 2012, 10:20 PM
Concealed carry is prohibited with a blood alcohol level of .02 or greater. Open carry is a bit more fuzzy. The statute:

750.237 Liquor or controlled substance; possession or use of firearm by person under influence; violation; penalty; chemical analysis.

Sec. 237. (1) An individual shall not carry, have in possession or under control, or use in any manner or discharge a firearm under any of the following circumstances:

(a) The individual is under the influence of alcoholic liquor, a controlled substance, or a combination of alcoholic liquor and a controlled substance.

(b) The individual has an alcohol content of 0.08 or more grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine.

(c) Because of the consumption of alcoholic liquor, a controlled substance, or a combination of alcoholic liquor and a controlled substance, the individual's ability to use a firearm is visibly impaired.

So possession is prohibited with a BAC of .08, if you are "under the influence," or if you are "visibly impaired."

Can anyone weigh in on the definition of "under the influence" or "visibly impaired" as it applies to possession of a firearm?

Edit: If you have a CPL, you may have your firearm locked in the trunk or in a locked container in your vehicle, separate from the ammunition, with a BAC above .02.

HOWARD J
November 11, 2012, 10:32 PM
Smelling the cork should get you .02

Hit_Factor
November 11, 2012, 10:53 PM
Smelling the cork should get you .02

Thats not true and impossible. Depending on how quickly consumed and the body weight if the individual it might take 1 or two drinks.

If one must drink while CCing I highly recommend the selection of soft drinks only.

smalls
November 11, 2012, 11:06 PM
I think he was joking.

HOWARD J
November 11, 2012, 11:18 PM
I called a couple bars up north where I used to hunt---both closed.
I want to find out if any weapons are allowed in the bar during hunting season
rifle deer

USAF_Vet
November 12, 2012, 01:20 AM
So is the no OC law the reason you get perp walked to the door if you buy a firearm at Wal-mart? :).

HOWARD J
November 12, 2012, 10:41 AM
In Gladwin area where I go hunting
You may NOT carry any type of weapon into a bar.....
during hunting season.
A knife is a weapon.

I didn't know--I don't drink

This includes any place that sells open bottle beer or booze by the glass

This is where the criminals do their Christmas shopping.

smalls
November 12, 2012, 12:06 PM
Legally you can, Howard. The bars may ask you to leave, though.

HOWARD J
November 12, 2012, 01:18 PM
I said Gladwin---- not Macomb
Up there you will leave with the sheriff---I saw it happen

smalls
November 12, 2012, 01:39 PM
It's still legal, in any county. It's state law. And we have preemption.

HOWARD J
November 12, 2012, 01:43 PM
You can have what you want-----BUT pay attention to the sign on the outside door of the bar

smalls
November 12, 2012, 01:44 PM
What sign?

Jotun25
November 12, 2012, 01:46 PM
So I could go to the local nature preserve with my glock 21 holstered on my hip as long as its not hidden by a coat and not be breaking the law?

smalls
November 12, 2012, 01:50 PM
You mean open carry it? You can open carry anywhere besides the places we've covered in this thread , unless you have a CPL.

HOWARD J
November 12, 2012, 01:51 PM
@ smalls
Do you have a telephone????
Call the sheriff where you hunt & ask about bar carry or don't you hunt

smalls
November 12, 2012, 01:54 PM
I don't care what the sherriff says. If he arrests you, sue.

Just because he has a badge and cuffs does not mean he is right, or that he can arrest you for any ol' reason he would like.

HOWARD J
November 12, 2012, 02:03 PM
You didn't call the sheriff--- did you ???

smalls
November 12, 2012, 02:04 PM
Why would I? Like I said, he can say whatever he likes. Cops are notoriously uninformed in carry laws.

andrewstorm
November 13, 2012, 07:10 PM
In michigan antis are everywhere,even in your local gunshop

HOWARD J
November 14, 2012, 01:52 AM
During hunting season or any season I don't think it would be a very good thing to have 100/150 people armed with gun & knife drinking in a bar---the local sheriffs don't think so either. Allowing this would be very dangerous.
That is why they don't allow it.

smalls
November 14, 2012, 02:11 AM
You're not allowed to have over .02 BAC (or the one source says .08 if carrying openly). If you are over the limit, then you are breaking the law.

If you're not drinking, then you may openly carry your firearm into the bar, provided you are a CPL holder.

That is the law in Michigan. Tell your sherriff to stop making his own up.

HOWARD J
November 14, 2012, 02:15 AM
That is the law correct
You will be escorted out with permission of owner in about 30 seconds.
Have you ever been in a bar in MI during hunting season packing an exposed weapon ?? A crowded bar ??

For some reason you don't sound like a deer hunter

smalls
November 14, 2012, 02:20 AM
They are welcome to ask you to leave, and if they do, you must leave.

But what you said was:

You may NOT carry any type of weapon into a bar

Which is NOT what the law says.

HOWARD J
November 14, 2012, 02:22 AM
You are not a hunter are you
why carry when you know you will be kicked out.

Are you a member of OPEN CARRY< INC ?

smalls
November 14, 2012, 02:44 AM
I am not a hunter (which has nothing to do with carrying into a bar or not), nor am I part of any open carry organization. I do advocate open carrying, as do I advocate obeying laws and exercising rights.

Not all bars in the whole state are going to kick you out. This is the legal section, discussing laws and how they apply to firearms.

HOWARD J
November 14, 2012, 03:05 AM
Do you enjoy explaning the state police memo on open carry when some cop
stops to talk to you about your open carry---i'll bet you do
Have fun----get yourself a rifle & go hunting some year---you might even enjoy going into a bar without a gun.
Take care

andrewstorm
November 19, 2012, 11:05 AM
at our little lake in the woods our resturant/grill be lives in the rkba and everybodys welcome,small,were does it state to open carry in a bar you must have a cpl?

NavyLCDR
November 19, 2012, 11:48 AM
During hunting season or any season I don't think it would be a very good thing to have 100/150 people armed with gun & knife drinking in a bar---the local sheriffs don't think so either. Allowing this would be very dangerous.
That is why they don't allow it.

The last time I checked it wasn't up to the sheriff to decide what is "allowed" or "not allowed". The sheriff's job is to enforce the law, nothing more.

Now if we could keep this thread on the topic of what the LAW allows or doesn't allow rather than personal opinions....

were does it state to open carry in a bar you must have a cpl?

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf

28.422 License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications;
applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; nonresidents; basic pistol safety brochure;
forging application; implementation during business hours.

Sec. 2. (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or
transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.

F-111 John
November 19, 2012, 12:55 PM
That's not a CPL, NavyLCDR, that's pistol registration.

Andrewstorm, the answer was in my previous post #18 with the pertinent sections underlined.

It is a two step process to get to open carry in a bar requires a CPL.

Step 1: Possession of a firearm in any establishment licenced under the Michigan Liquor Control Act is prohibited, but does not apply to CPL holders.

Step 2: Concealed carry is prohibited by CPL holders in establishments that primarily make their income from selling liquor by the glass for consumption on the premesis. The law is silent on open carry by CPL holders, making open carry legal.

smalls
November 19, 2012, 01:43 PM
And here is the AG's translation of said exemptions:

Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.

“Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”

If you enjoyed reading about "MI law?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!