Browning A Bolt II 7mm rem mag


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scheaman88
November 10, 2012, 09:25 PM
Ok so im looking at multiple rifles right now and trying to decide what i want one of them is the 7mm rem mag.

I want to be able to reload this cartridge but also want to be able to purchase ammo farely easy for it too in those times when i just have anything loaded and just want to go shoot or any other situation that may arise.

Anyone who owns one of these or has owned one and has input both good and bad i would love to hear from you and i appreciate what you have to say.

Lastly i would like for my wife to be able to shoot the rifle i purchase but i want to go and shoot deer, elk, or any other large game that i may end up hunting down the road. this is a rifle i want to own for years to come and hopefully pass it on to my children.

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beatledog7
November 10, 2012, 10:25 PM
Sgt,

My 7mm Rem Mag is an older (1986) first edition A-Bolt Medallion. The A-Bolt is accurate, smooth to operate, and just darn pretty. I really like the 60-degree bolt lift. It makes mounting a scope nice and low much easier. Both the Browning and the 7Mag are great choices.

7Mag ammo is not rare and can be had at most Walmarts. It's reasonably priced, available from on-line outlets for a buck a round (or more, but it starts there). It is as easy to reload as any other bottleneck rifle cartridge and can shoot bullet weights from 120 to 180 grains. Its recoil is manageable as long as you don't plan to shoot 50 rounds at a time (I've shot 20 or so in a single outing with no ill effects), and you can load it light if you need to. There's nothing in the lower 48 that it can't humanely kill.

Anything bad I could say about the 7Mag would pretty much apply to the 30-06, 270, etc. The only possible down on the A-Bolt is it's a bit more expensive than a comparable Savage, Ruger, etc. But there are barely used A-Bolts for sale all the time on Gunbroker and similar sites. A well cared-for A-Bolt will still be going strong for your children to hand down to theirs.

scheaman88
November 10, 2012, 10:29 PM
Thanks beatle dog for the input i am highly considering the 7mm rem mag as my weapon of choice.

C-grunt
November 10, 2012, 10:44 PM
I've owned a few 7mm Mags and I e liked them all. Never owned a downing though. I think the 7 Mag is a great all-rounder that has moderate recoil.

Kachok
November 11, 2012, 01:34 AM
I own an A-Bolt II in 7mm-08 and have owned three 7mm Rem mags over the years. The Browning is a decent rifle, not up to par with it's Winchester 70 counterpart, but not bad either. Love the flip down mag and very short LOP but I am not thrilled with the ejector (weaker then lite beer) or the rough action. I have not spent a ton of time developing handloads for mine yet but I can tell you that it is harder to get it to group sub moa then some of my other rifles. Tikka tops my all around rifle list, affordable, smoothest action in the buisness, best trigger of any production rifle, and just plain deadly accurate with a wide variety of bullet weights.
We all know the big 7 is a great long ranged gun, but if I could have just one hunting rifle the 7mm Rem Mag would NOT be it, 30-06, 270 win, 308, 7mm-08 and 6.5x55 (if you handload) are really hard to beat at real world ranges, and are better "all around" cartrages. Despite not reaching 3400fps speeds they still kill large game as quickly as they ever did.
I would never recommend a 7mm Rem Mag to a novice shooter, their recoil can be really snappy and unpleasant.

hardluk1
November 11, 2012, 08:49 AM
I to have used a 7mm rm for close to 20 years and like it but if buying a first just one centerfire rifle today it would not be a 7mm mag. Not the best choice for a new be shooter. If your shooting mainly at a range, buy a 260, 6.5x55 followed by a 7-08 or 308 and enjoy shooting out as far as 600 to a 1000 yards The 6.5mms are better there. There 308 based rounds are still great hunting cartidges out to 350 yards or so . Unless your wife is a tough lady she may not think highly of a lighter weight 7mm mag.

7mm rm brass has a shorter reloading life than a non mag too. 4 to 6 reloads maybe. Buy a 308 based cartidge and it can hold up to 3 or 4 times as many reloads.

To day if buying a new rifle it would be a 6.5mm, 260 or 6.5x55.

Sav .250
November 11, 2012, 08:54 AM
The 7 mm Mag is a load. It does have re-coil. letting your wife shoot it is another thing.
It "could " have a negative affect on her in the long run.
Although if there is a "low re-coil" out there , that might save the day. J s/n.

scheaman88
November 11, 2012, 01:04 PM
Thank you guys for all of that input and now i have something else to fuel this discussion. How about the .300 Win Mag? I plan on reloading and have been told this one can be downloaded and uploaded for the situation of use. for example downloaded for the range day when my wife wants to shoot it so its not punishing(sp) her or uploaded for going on those big game hunts up in the mountains. what are your thoughts in this aspect of the 300 win mag?

Random Discharge
November 11, 2012, 01:38 PM
I sense you want a magnum for your first all around rifle. :D

If a magnum it is, stick with the Rem 7 Mag. There is nothing marginal about the Rem 7 Mag. Re-read Kachok's post. These are the same reasons the last thing I would recommend is stepping even further up the power scale to a 300 Win Mag. If you have a preference for more power than a 308 based cartridge offers, I recommend taking another hard look at the 270 and 30-06 before you go down the magnum road.

Flatbush Harry
November 11, 2012, 01:44 PM
In my experience, a 7mm RM has about the same recoil as a .30-06 and, while I don't own one, I think it is a fine choice. I find the .300 WM unpleasant to shoot and, hence, to practice with. I also don't have one of them, as I can't afford the kid I'd have to rent to shoot it for me. Also, in my experience, at less than 300-350 yards, a .300 WM doesn't do anything that a .308 Win or .30-06 won't do with far less recoil.

I shoot regularly (>12x/mo) and see a lot of 7RM and .300WM shooters, struggling with these rifles. Most comment on the recoil they're experiencing and I note that most have poor positions and technique. I believe many get these calibers because someone said to them that:

a. they are "flat-shooting" so that holdover issues are eliminated (uh-uh)
b. the mags will stop anything regardless of where the game is struck (uh-uh)

My go-to hunting rifles are .30-06, .308, .270 and 6.5x55 SE. With the right bullets, all will take any game in North America save for Brown Bear and Moose. If I ever go after those two, I would take my .375 H&H. BTW, with a 260gr AccuBond at 2700 fps, the .375 has virtually the same ballistics as a .30-06 with 180gr bullets...but you need to learn the relevant holdovers for both.

Net, net, buy a rifle for most of what you need. You'll enjoy it more, practice more and probably achieve greater success. Buying a .300WM for the one shot you might (but probably shouldn't) take at 450 yards on an 800 lb animal isn't good decision-making. Buying a 7mmRM or .300WM for 1,00 yard target shooting is not a bad idea, but then, you'll want to get the proper rifle for that discipline.

FH

scheaman88
November 11, 2012, 04:39 PM
All great points but i will put this out there also i am a sgt in the military and as far as shooting goes all i do is technique. I have my shooting abilities down and i know what i am capable of.

Secondly the recoil is not something i am a stranger too either. And when it comes to reletless practice to make something perfect i can endur the discomfort long enough to get it right until i cant get it wrong.

Also please dont take this as me being cocky or arrogant. I greatly appreciate all of your input and will consider all factors and weapons that are put forth.

Im looking for those larger caliber magnums because i dont make insane amounts of money that allow me to buy a rifle for every different hunting situation that there is. That being sad i want something that i know can handle the large game animals as well as be downloaded for the medium game even if it is still a little over kill.

C-grunt
November 11, 2012, 08:17 PM
All great points but i will put this out there also i am a sgt in the military and as far as shooting goes all i do is technique. I have my shooting abilities down and i know what i am capable of.

Secondly the recoil is not something i am a stranger too either. And when it comes to reletless practice to make something perfect i can endur the discomfort long enough to get it right until i cant get it wrong.

Also please dont take this as me being cocky or arrogant. I greatly appreciate all of your input and will consider all factors and weapons that are put forth.

Im looking for those larger caliber magnums because i dont make insane amounts of money that allow me to buy a rifle for every different hunting situation that there is. That being sad i want something that i know can handle the large game animals as well as be downloaded for the medium game even if it is still a little over kill.
7 RM will take any animal in North America. If you want lighter loads you can reload your own or buy the less recoil loads. Remember that the 7mm Mauser ( same bullet weights but a few hundred FPS slower) was used in Africa by Mr Bell to kill dozens of elephants.

Reloadron
November 11, 2012, 08:36 PM
Mine happens to be a Ruger 77 I have had maybe 20 years. I like the cartridge and it is, as mentioned, suitable for all North American game and a flat shooting cartridge as well.

Anyone who owns one of these or has owned one and has input both good and bad i would love to hear from you and i appreciate what you have to say.

Lastly i would like for my wife to be able to shoot the rifle i purchase but i want to go and shoot deer, elk, or any other large game that i may end up hunting down the road. this is a rifle i want to own for years to come and hopefully pass it on to my children.

While many say the recoil is on par with a 30-06 I find it to be a little more stout. Here is what I suggest you do if at all possible. Beg or borrow a 30-06 bolt gun and have your wife send a few rounds down range. Before investing in a 7mm Remington Magnum you really should see how she fares with a 30-06. It is important she be comfortable shooting the rifle and not flinching and getting beat up by the rifle. Try before you buy is a good way to go with rifles like the 7mm Rem Mag or .300 Win Mag as both are a little more stout than the 30-06 in my opinion. I only suggest the 30-06 as they are easy to find and borrow. :)

Just My Take
Ron

scheaman88
November 11, 2012, 08:52 PM
ok to the queen of battle sorry c-grunt i had to throw that in there. I plan on reloading for whichever rifle i decide to buy for the exact reason you stated i can make lighter loads for the range to have some fun with and upload for hunting.

Ron, I am hoping that i can borrow or rent a few different rifles to shoot them and see how i fare with them and make my decision on the terms of which i feel would be the most manageable.

And in the end if it turns out that my wife cant shoot it then well thats ok cause she already stole my XDM 40S&W so she cant shoot that while i shoot the big boy.

Kachok
November 12, 2012, 12:11 AM
I never understood how anyone could believe that the 30-06 kicks as hard as the 7 mag. They are not even close in my book, I can shoot 100+ rounds of 06 in several different rifles without flinching, that is a long way from being pleasant but it is not punishing either. I never could make it through a whole box of my 7mm Rem Mags, they don't push any harder but that snappy recoil stings on the bench (not so much in the field though)
I have since dropped the 7mm mags and now I shoot a 270 WSM when I get an itch for crazy speed, it is kind of surprising but the 270 has a bit less bite to it and the trajector/energy are darn near identical. Only gripe I have with the short mag is the brass is thick and hard as heck to FL resize. As good a performer as that WSM is I have only taken it hunting twice, nothing wrong with it, it won't do anything my 308 or 6.5x55 can't do at any realistic range.

scheaman88
November 12, 2012, 12:58 AM
Ok so i have done a pretty good deal of comparing on my 12 hour shifts that im working/being bored right now and I have come to the conclusion that i like the .300 Win Mag. It is the only .30 caliber rifle that is in the top ten most bought rifles and seems to be the most versatile for buying rounds in the store and for reloading. I know it still has a kick to it but there are things i can do to tame the kick for extended range time and sighting in. I however have not come down to a conclusion as to which manufacturer i would like to purchase this weapon from. i have a top six in mind and will list it here for commenting and am also as usual open to any other brand suggestions that you guys may have.

Ok so heres the list eight rifles six makers:

Weatherby Vangaurd S2

T/C Dimension

T/C Venture

T/C Icon W/ Weathershield

Remington 700 SPS

Tikka T3 Lite

Ruger M77 Hawkeye

Browning A Bolt II Long Range Hunter

These are not in any order of what i like just wrote them down as i found what i liked.

Andrew Leigh
November 12, 2012, 03:15 AM
Hi

Have shot my brothers Winchester Model 70 pre-64 in 7mm Rem Mag and the snappier recoil does make it a little more unpleasant and agree 100% with Kachok. It is a great caliber (aren't all calibers great?)

Have shot my friends Mossberg .300 Win Mag and it has less recoil than my 30-06 ........ but it has a muzzle break. They guys on the range will hate you due to the noise and the side blast.

The Tikka is light weight so will exacerbate the felt recoil.

Have not shot any of the others. Both my rifles are CZ's.

jehu
November 12, 2012, 08:44 AM
The heavier the rifle the less recoil will be felt, generaly speaking, so if you are going to be shooting mostly from a good rested position I would not get the "lite" rifles in the magnum loads. If you are walking and stalking then thats a differant story. I have a Sako Grey Wolf in 7RM and the recoil is not bad at all shooting the Federal 150gr Ballistic Tips. The Sako Grey Wolf is just short of 8lbs. + scope/ mounts.

Kachok
November 12, 2012, 09:42 AM
Here is my take on the rifles you listed.
Weatherby Vanguard
Pros: Tough as nails action with a well eared reputation for accuracy.
Cons: The stock always threw me off, too bulky, and the wby is not a light rifle,
TC Dimension
Pros: Very modular rifle, quick change caliber setup that the wife would enjoy (she WON'T like the 300 Win)
Cons: New barrels cost as much as a new Savage Rifle, that is why I never owned a TC and bought half a dozen Savages :)
TC Venture
Pros: A worthy rival to the Vanguard for budget sporter supremacy, with a better stock IMHO.
Cons: A recall issue that turned some people off, and at 7.5lbs it has to play with the big boys.
Remington SPS
Pros: They used to build a fine rifle.
Cons: They don't anymore :( The last three Remingtons I have purchased were all junk and I won't ever touch another one post 2007 when they sold their soul to CCM/FG
Tikka T3
Pros: Easily the most refined rifle you can get under $1500, fantastic rifle my all time favorite budget rifle (and I have owned a BUNCH) 6.25lbs, unreal accuracy, best trigger and smoothest action in the industry, what more could you ask for?
Cons: Recoil pad is a bit on the stiff side, and the rifle is a bit light for 300 Win Mag recoil, a heavier rifle helps soak up some of that kick.
TC Icon
Pros: A world beater sporter weight rifle designed to play with the best of the best, solid performance in every test I have seen it. (Never owned one myself)
Cons: Expensive, almost Sako money.
Ruger 77 Hawkeye.
Pros: It is the tank of all bolt action rifles, will outlast you and your grandchildren.
Cons: Heavy, and some accuracy issues.
Browning A-Bolt II LRH
Pros: Good looking accurate rifle, and you get to put those cool Browning logos on your truck :)
Cons: while the heavy barrel LRH is a highly accurate heavy barrel rifle it is also far to heavy to stalk hunt with.

If you are dead set on getting a large heavy 300 mag consider investing in a good 308/270 or some other quality mid range caliber in a smaller more handy package for woods hunting. I think you will find you leave the cannon at the house more often then not, I sure do.

del4
November 12, 2012, 09:50 AM
I figured that .308 & 30-06 would have made the top 10 over 300wm.

It looks like your mind is made up. Get the rifle you want, you will likely regret it if you don't.

I agree with the others though, there are better choices for your situation. Just take your time with your decision, the rifles you want are expensive. There are a lot of used 300,s & 7mm's for a reason.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

scheaman88
November 12, 2012, 12:03 PM
Kachok, All i can say is wow that is the absolute most informative post i have ready on any thread. I did hear about the remingtons having issues just threw it out there to see if anyone else had any of the issues. you answered my question thanks.

Now another thing since everyone says how high the recoil is how does everyone feel about the limbsaver recoild pad and a decent muzzel break? How much will they impact my recoil and will either effect my accuracy?

Kachok
November 12, 2012, 12:07 PM
Ok so i have done a pretty good deal of comparing on my 12 hour shifts that im working/being bored right now and I have come to the conclusion that i like the .300 Win Mag. It is the only .30 caliber rifle that is in the top ten most bought rifles and seems to be the most versatile for buying rounds in the store and for reloading. .
Umm what about the 308, 30-06, and 30-30? Whatever source says the 300 magnums outsell those is lying through their teeth. Nothing wrong with a 300 magnum if you are an experenced rifleman who can deal with it's bite, and have need for shots in excess of 400yd, but truth be told that kind of range is rare in the real world, over 98% of deer are shot within 200yd despite what some people would have you beleive. Big high speed magnums tend to mess up a whitetail, I like the meat so I leave the big guns to big game.

Kachok
November 12, 2012, 12:13 PM
Kachok, All i can say is wow that is the absolute most informative post i have ready on any thread. I did hear about the remingtons having issues just threw it out there to see if anyone else had any of the issues. you answered my question thanks.

Now another thing since everyone says how high the recoil is how does everyone feel about the limbsaver recoild pad and a decent muzzel break? How much will they impact my recoil and will either effect my accuracy?
Limbsavers are great, but you need more then that to make a 300 managable for your wife, though I am sure an experenced shooter like yourself could handle one. Limbsavers WILL NOT effect accuracy at all.
I don't like muzzlebreaks, I rather deal with a bruised shoulder then have my ears ringing for the next week. My hearing is already bad enough as is. Muzzlebreaks can effect accuracy by changing the hormonics of the barrel. Not "worse" per say just different.

idcurrie
November 12, 2012, 01:35 PM
Im looking for those larger caliber magnums because i dont make insane amounts of money that allow me to buy a rifle for every different hunting situation that there is. That being sad i want something that i know can handle the large game animals as well as be downloaded for the medium game even if it is still a little over kill.

Sounds to me like you want a 30'06 and just don't know it yet.

I have not been satisfied with Savage or Remington rifles.

I find the Tikka is too light.

I highly recommend the Weatherby Vanguard S2. Its weight helps mitigate recoil and I find that it actually helps make steadier offhand shots.

The design of the action is very good. I love the one piece bolt body. If you get your rifle soaked, you simply twist the rear of the bolt off and the firing pin with spring comes out for super easy cleaning.

The fit and finish is superior to any other rifle near the price point. The trigger on the s2 is excellent and it's guaranteed to shoot sub-moa.

I prefer the stainless steel version but the blued version is nice and shares the same finish as the Mark V.

You should seriously consider this rifle when making your decision.

I have a LOT of experience in the field and I really don't think that anyone needs more than a 30'06.

I would recommend reading this article:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/myth_busting_calibers.htm

Kachok
November 12, 2012, 02:00 PM
Here we go 30-06 vs 300 Win :D
30-06
Advantages: Easy to work up loads, super cheap once fired brass EVERYWHERE, acceptable recoil, and more then enough punch for anything other then 1,000lbs+ dangerous game. Works much better in shorter/lighter/handier rifles then any magnum.
300 Win Mag
Advantages: You can down load it to 30-06 power but it does not work the other way around. The biggest advantage to me is that it makes better use of 200+gr bullets for bear/moose class game.

bergmen
November 12, 2012, 02:19 PM
I have a Browning A-Bolt II Medallion in .300WSM (Wincehster Short Magnum) and a Browning X-Bolt Medallion in .308 Winchester.

I've had the A-Bolt much longer and have refined loads to provide tack-driving accuracy (I can cover three holes with a quarter at 100 yards consistently). Easy to reload for, short action, ballistics close to .300 Winchester Magnum. Bullet weights are more limited, though, with 150-180 grains being the recommended range. Heavier bullets have been loaded successfully but at the expense of powder capacity. I bought this rifle for long range deer/antelope hunting and I have a very fast and flat shooting 150 grain load that is extremely accurate and consistent (as mentioned above).

I have not had the X-bolt very long so I cannot comment on the accuracy potential, still working up loads for it. The X-Bolt has an easily removable rotary magazine that is all plastic (seems cheesy at first but it isn't). This is important in that they are very light, won't rattle in the pocket and won't rust. it is also the smoothest feeding of any magazine type that I have experienced. The X-Bolt also has the feature of being able to work the bolt with the safety on.

I love both rifles (and calibers) and would not hesitate to recommend them.

Dan

scheaman88
November 12, 2012, 02:43 PM
Kachok, again unsurpassable advice and input.

Idcurrie, I have actually looked at this article already and read through it a couple days ago. very helpful and well put together.

I have actually also looked at the chuck hawk articles comparing recoil in a very wide variety of calibers and different weight bullets for those calibers. I have been considering all the input that veeryone is giving and have been looking more now at non magnum calibers such as the 30-06, 308 win, and 270 win. these all seems like rifles i would love to own and i think i would be able to spend considerably more time out on the range practicing with one of these and working up loads when i begin reloading for them. And i also think that a limbsaver recoil pad would increase the time even more with these unlike the magnums.

I know i am jumping around a lot on you guys on which caliber rifle i want to get but i dont want to make a decision on a rifle in a week or even a month and then regret the choice i have made either because it kicks my butt up and down the range or because it doesnt have the oomph that i am looking for.

I am really greatful for all of the input that everyone is throwing my way and onestly it is helping a lot because it is giving me more information and knowlege plus it is helping me to get out there and find things out too that i probably never would have looked at or considered had i not gotten on this forum.

scheaman88
November 12, 2012, 02:50 PM
I have a Browning A-Bolt II Medallion in .300WSM (Wincehster Short Magnum) and a Browning X-Bolt Medallion in .308 Winchester.

I've had the A-Bolt much longer and have refined loads to provide tack-driving accuracy (I can cover three holes with a quarter at 100 yards consistently). Easy to reload for, short action, ballistics close to .300 Winchester Magnum. Bullet weights are more limited, though, with 150-180 grains being the recommended range. Heavier bullets have been loaded successfully but at the expense of powder capacity. I bought this rifle for long range deer/antelope hunting and I have a very fast and flat shooting 150 grain load that is extremely accurate and consistent (as mentioned above).

I have not had the X-bolt very long so I cannot comment on the accuracy potential, still working up loads for it. The X-Bolt has an easily removable rotary magazine that is all plastic (seems cheesy at first but it isn't). This is important in that they are very light, won't rattle in the pocket and won't rust. it is also the smoothest feeding of any magazine type that I have experienced. The X-Bolt also has the feature of being able to work the bolt with the safety on.

I love both rifles (and calibers) and would not hesitate to recommend them.

Dan thanks for that info i have yet to look at the X bolt but i will be taking a look at it very soon (i.e. right now). I love hearing from guys who have the rifles i am looking at and ones i have yet to look at and can compare both with unbiase opinions for each.

Kachok
November 12, 2012, 02:57 PM
While having "enough" power is very important consider this.
Hunters in Russia consider the 7.62x54 to be excessivly powerful for bear hunting! In reality it has less punch then a 30-06, closer to a 308.
Hunters in much of Europe hunt elk and moose with the seemingly puney 6.5x55, a recent survay was done and the hunters using the little Sweed had nearly identical recovery rates as those using 338 win mag!
Often hunters choose a cartrage that fits thier personalty rather then their hunting needs. A friend of mine who can hardly hit a deer at 100yds (missed two last year) keeps talking about how much he wants a 338 Lapua!
I don't know how big the game is in your neck of the woods, and I am not saying that is you, just don't fall into that trap, I did and it gets expensive and frustrating.

scheaman88
November 12, 2012, 03:19 PM
Great story and i know what your talking about it is often calledd (little man syndrom). Im not really in that catagory i just like big ass guns.

That said i am considering more and more what i want to actually spend in realistic situations on ammo. I am going to be reloading whatever caliber i decide to get but even in that aspect it can be exspensive with the larger caliber rifles. I like to shoot and the cheaper the ammo is for what i get the more i can shoot .

In my home state of Indiana we cant even use high powered rifles. the only long rifle we can use is if it is a ound that is made in a handgun also. like .44 mag and .357 these are also very decent rounds though for the deer that we encounter and the ranges at which we encounter deer in Indiana.

However i am not living in Indiana anymore since i joined the military i was stationed in texas and then went to kentucky and here in the year or less i will be moving back to texas so i will have plenty of deer to shoot at and i will be making trips up into New Mexico to see if i cant take an elk.

Kachok
November 12, 2012, 04:27 PM
Cool, I was Army and lived in Texas for many years. If you go out west you might just need a magnum, you can see for miles in any direction, and so can the big mule deer LOL. Anywhere else in the state you can hunt with a revolver, from the panhandle to the hill country Texas is a very brushy place.
Oh another thing I forgot to address. You seem to be under the imression that the 300 mags are suitable for larger animals then a 30-06. This is not as big a difference as the recoil would imply. If I am hunting something that is to big for my 308/30-06 I am not reaching for a faster .30 I am reaching for a much larger caliber, 338 WM, 9.3x64, or 375 Ruger.

idcurrie
November 12, 2012, 04:48 PM
I live in very far northern Canada. The deer here are much larger than what you'd find in the U.S.A. The elk are very large and the Moose even more so.

I shoot a 30'06 although I've tried them all. My wife uses a 270. Both do the job very, very well.

A friend of mine purchased a rifle and we went about 6 hours even further north in pursuit of a trophy Elk. The locals in one of the Restaurants we stopped at asked what we were carrying. They laughed when they heard my friend was carrying a 300 Winmag and asked "what do you need that thing for?"

Personally, I consider it a mark of an experienced and skilled hunter to carry a non-magnum caliber.

Before going for a 300wm, definitely look at some reloading manuals. You'll find that to make the same velocity as a 30'06 or 308, the 300wm has to use much more powder.

Also consider that the 300wm is the only cartridge that has a neck length which is less than the diameter of the bullet. This means that it is particularly advisable to crimp for this cartridge since bullets might get pushed back into the case while the cartridge is in the magazine under recoil. The neck simply doesn't provide enough bearing surface as other cartridges.

Also to consider, 300wm and 7mm rem mag tend to have lesser case life when reloading. Generally, the belt doesn't really do anything because hand loaders headspace off the shoulder rather than the belt. The problem with the belt is that it doesn't really allow for proper full length sizing. Sometimes a small 'bulge' will form just above the belt making it impossible to chamber the round.

Most people who reload for the 300wm will neck size their brass but even they have to have their shoulders pushed back sometimes.

All in all, it's just a huge pain in the ass to properly reload for the 300wm as compared to the 30'06, 308, 270 etc.

300wm factory ammo costs more. Reloading for 300wm costs more because your brass doesn't last as long and it requires more powder to do the same thing.

Also worth noting, from experience, any kind of cartridge holder that you buy from, say, MTM or the like will be unwieldy large in 300wm/7mmrm. Regular size cartrige holders are simply easier to find and easier to handle and work with.

scheaman88
November 12, 2012, 05:05 PM
Idcurrie, Thanks for that awesome insight and the story. I am very highly considering those non magnums now like i mentioned in one of my earlier posts such as the 308, 270 and 30-06. These seem to be much more manageable for range use and field use. I do like the big guns cause they make a big bang but i need something that is practical for going out and throwinng lead down range on a regular bases and also going out and knocking down the animal of choice.

akodo
November 17, 2012, 01:46 PM
All great points but i will put this out there also i am a sgt in the military and as far as shooting goes all i do is technique. I have my shooting abilities down and i know what i am capable of.

Secondly the recoil is not something i am a stranger too either. And when it comes to reletless practice to make something perfect i can endur the discomfort long enough to get it right until i cant get it wrong.

Also please dont take this as me being cocky or arrogant. I greatly appreciate all of your input and will consider all factors and weapons that are put forth.

Im looking for those larger caliber magnums because i dont make insane amounts of money that allow me to buy a rifle for every different hunting situation that there is. That being sad i want something that i know can handle the large game animals as well as be downloaded for the medium game even if it is still a little over kill.





With all due respect, I have heard many military men cite their shooting of the SAW and M240 as 'able to handle the recoil'

Unfortunately, that is an apple-to-oranges comparison. Please tell us what experience you have in shooting that will prepare you for the recoil of a 300 RUM, 300 Winmag, or 7mm Remmag.

Regarding the attitude of 'downloading' for medium game and target shooting...it just doesn't happen that way. People who run two loads mentally default to the performance of the more often shot one when they are in the midst of a hunting situation, in addition to the trouble of constantly re-zeroing as you switch between loads as I mentioned on your other thread.

I know where you are coming from as far as a rifle and price. The idea is to spend more now and make ONE purchase that will last a lifetime and can be used on all hunting situations.

But that's a false premise. For starters, ever heard the saying 'Jack of all trades master of none'? That's what you are setting yourself up for. You are attempting to select a gun that is capable of doing the rare 1% of hunting but in the process giving yourself a big handicap for the more common 99% of hunting.

Second if you can afford to buy one rifle now, you can probably afford to buy one more rifle 5-10 years from now. Further, if this isn't true, then you probably cannot afford the OTHER costs associated with the rare 1% of hunting you are considering when buying your gun. For instance, if a hunter wants to make a 500 yard shot, then he should realize that his ammo consumption to gain and maintain that level of skill is going to be more than the price of a decent rifle...even if that shooter also hand-loads. Most elk hunters own ATVs or horses for getting out beyond the roads and for hauling out the animal once shot. (I do NOT consider an elk hunter who just packs out the rack, or even who just packs out 50 pounds of meat leaving 500 pounds to rot to be an ethical hunter). Heck I just looked it up and a non-resident New Mexico Bull Elk license is $550 all by itself.

Third, people are allowed to sell rifles they 'outgrow'...OR set them aside to be used by a future wife, son, or daughter.

Fourth, one one side of shooting you have technique which is the same if you are shooting a 22, 223, 30-06, or a 460 weatherby. But you also have recoil management where you need to worry about developing a flinch, being able to get a fast follow-up shot, etc etc. In that way shooting is like lifting weights...you work up to the heavier stuff. Think about how useful it would be for a kid who wants to start lifting weights to put 200 pounds on the bar and press against it every day hoping that some day he will lift it vs starting at 100 and working his way up. You don't have to start by lifting 10 pounds (22 LR rifle) but it is unwise to start at 200 pounds (7mm remmag, 300 winmag).

I think you'd be much better off getting a DECENT gun in a low recoiling caliber matched with a good scope with the intent of it being your learning gun plus the gun your wife, son, or daughter will learn on if/when they want to take up hunting at your side.

In this regard, I recommend you get a Weatherby Vanguard Synthetic in 25-06 or a Marlin XS 7 in 243, Something in the $400 price range and top it off with a $150 scope. Learn with it. Then keep it for a wife/son/daughter or sell it for 75% of your initial investment. Consider that $100 to $200 'investment' loss you will take when you sell it to be an investment in rifle #2. (After all, you seem the type that if you were asking about rifle model A for $700 if people here heavily recommended rifle model B for $850 to be much superior, that you'd pay the extra $150, right?)

Or heck, get yourself a Mosin Nagant for $99.99. People say they are 'inaccurate' but even an inaccurate Mosin is in my experience capable of 5 MOA accuracy, which is plenty good for learning on.

I know i am jumping around a lot on you guys on which caliber rifle i want to get but i dont want to make a decision on a rifle in a week or even a month and then regret the choice i have made either because it kicks my butt up and down the range or because it doesnt have the oomph that i am looking for.

I am glad you made the very reasonable decision to move to a 270, 308, or 30-06. However everything I said above still holds. If you don't like the gun you can sell it and get 75% of your investment back.

Now using some information from your posts, let's be honest. It seems like you are going to be doing the vast majority of your hunting for the next 5 years in Texas, hunting for white-tail deer and similar sized game. Texas whitetails are known to be small. It's one of the few places where hunting deer with a 223 is a reasonable option especially for a beginner. Hunting whitetails in Texas, to be successful, you don't look for a ton of power you look for a flat shooting cartridge. I STRONGLY recommend a 243, 25-06, or similar round for Texas Whitetail hunting. This isn't even a 'new guy should avoid killer recoil' thing, this is simply 'the tool that seems to work best'. The fact that the 243 and 25-06 are light recoiling numbers great to learn on is a happy coincidence. Also, there is no whitetail deer on this continent that a 243 with a quality bullet can't drop. 25-06 is considered the 'minimum' for elk, so power isn't going to be a factor no matter where you end up.

When you reach the point in your life where you can really drop $2000 on a hunting trip, then you'll also be at a point in your life where you can buy a dedicated elk rifle (or dedicated whatever rifle for whatever specialty hunt you are going to do)

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