I need a history lesson! Please...


November 11, 2012, 10:22 AM
Email from my parents reads,

The derringer I sent you pictures of has a mystery....Daddy and I have done a fair bit of research online and have come up with all the following:

It is a Hy Hunter, "Frontier Model Derringer", made in Germany in the 50s or 60s. It was made in various calibers....this one is a 22 LR.

The mystery is.......the word "Frontier" has been very carefully, very gently, very thoroughly obliterated on the barrel.....not filed, not scratched, not 'acided', but it LOOKS like it has been carefully struck repeatedly with the offset printing die letter "c' in the same size as the 'font' used to imprint the weapon. The nickel plating doesn't seem to be broken from the process.

Maybe you have some research ideas that didn't occur to Daddy or me. ANY ideas or input as to why would be appreciated.

Pictures are coming. Any thoughts??? History on the gun? Why the "obliteration" of the word" The gun belonged to my great grandfather. No clue where he got it...

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November 11, 2012, 11:55 AM
Sounds like a side step to a copyright/trademark infringement upon importation.

November 11, 2012, 11:58 AM
Maybe Colt had trademarked the "Frontier" name and their lawyers got into them.

November 11, 2012, 04:18 PM
Interesting thought.

November 11, 2012, 06:18 PM
German handgun manufacturer making Derringers? Must have intended a US market, but they didn't look into copywrites? Kinda half baked business model...

But it certainly answers the boogered lettering...

November 11, 2012, 08:12 PM

November 11, 2012, 08:14 PM

November 11, 2012, 11:33 PM
hy hunter derringers were manufactured by a non-firearm manufacturer that went by the name KASCHIE (which is short for a german company who's full name i have a hard time with. these derringers were manufactured in the 1950's and 1960's. i believe in the 1970's when the original hy hunter co went out of business and a new company hawes firearms was started manufacture of the derriger was taken over for a while by sauer, but this for now is still unconfirmed.

i have learned that KASCHIE manufactured all kinds of metal goods for the german army during wwII and their main product before the war was cigarette lighters. the only thing i have found in print about KASCHIE handgun manufactoring has been a magazine article in the german langague firearms magazine VISER written in 1995. i still havn't gotten it translated.

by the way i have owned one of these derringers in 22 long rifle caliber since 1963. it was purchased used in a neat little presentation case for $19.95. i believe the finish is nickel and not chrome. my hy hunter derringer was the first handgun my daughter ever fired and is still one of the ones she lays claim to.

i looked through 4 different pricing guides and none of them listed the hy hunter/hawes derringers. i believe the centerfire models should be worth at least as much as the current davis/cobra derringers.

The above quote was in answer to someone asking a related question back in 2008 on a different forum. The user quoted is b.goforth.

Unfortunately it does't answer the why of the "Frontier" deletion.

Jim K
November 12, 2012, 02:49 PM
Just on a general note, an American trademark has no protection in a foreign country unless registered in that country. So if the word "Frontier" was trademarked in the U.S., a German company could use it if it was not registered in Germany. But when the item was imported, the trademark would have to be removed.

I don't know if it was Colt, but apparently someone trademarked that name in the U.S. for firearms, so imported guns had to have it removed. Later guns would probably not have it at all, but oblliterating the word would have allowed already-made guns to be sold.

Incidentally, trademarks, unlilke patents, do not expire as long as the trademark holder uses it and defends it. That is why Smith & Wesson continues to use color case hardened hammers and triggers on some of their gun even though the new MIM parts are already hard; the coloring of those parts is an S&W trademark. (It is also why a writer who has his character order a sandwich and a "coke" may receive a letter from Coca-Cola reminding him that "Coke" is their registered trademark and must be capitalilzed.)


November 15, 2012, 11:28 AM
If "Frontier" was ever trademarked, then it has surely expired. For USFA has marketed "Frontier Sixshooters" recently and then there's the Ruger Frontier rifle. But I don't know because there was also the Winchester Legendary Frontiersmen commemorative back in the `60's or `70's.

Jim K
November 16, 2012, 10:11 PM
My note was a general one that I thought might provide the reason for the obliteration of the marking. If the word "frontier" was copyrighted, it probably went back a ways, perhaps to Colt's "Frontier Six Shooter" marking, used on .44-40 SAAs and Model 1878s. It would have expired when the original registrant ceased using it and defending it, but I don't know when that would have been.


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