1858 pietta


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mjsdwash
November 12, 2012, 01:05 PM
Hello everyone. Right now cabelas is doing another sale, and im thinking of getting one of the pietta 1858s. I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with the durability of the pistols? Im specifically wondering if anyone has any issues with frame cracking, or mechanical wear, cylinder timing? Ive scene the older colt clones have this type of issue. Thanks.

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MCgunner
November 12, 2012, 01:27 PM
IMHO, every bit as good as Uberti. It's no Ruger ROA, but it ain't supposed to be, it's a replica. Mine's quite accurate, very strong design if not Ruger strong, lighter than the ROA (I have one of those, too) and mine has a 5.5" barrel which I LOVE! The ones on sale now, the ones I looked at anyway, are all longer barrel guns, and that's OK, but when I got my shorty, I was specifically WANTING the short barrel. It's good enough that I no longer desire a 5" fixed sight ROA, put it that way. Be nice if it were stainless, but now I'm getting REAL picky. :D

dogrunner
November 12, 2012, 01:54 PM
I purchased my first Pietta from Cabela's in the early 90's, they had a sale going, I had a few bucks that I guess I didn't care much about so I thought WTH, can't be much, a 90 buck revolver, but thought I'd give it a try............First surprise was when I opened the box..........nice looking, good blue job, good timing. Rifling was well done and the trigger not bad at all. Second surprise was when I stoked it with holy black the first time............damned thing would outshoot my S&W at about 20 yards!.........That gun is still in my safe, it still goes along on my yearly ML hunts and I hope when I'm gone that someone else appreciates it as much as I have!

As with anything else, you'll on occasion hear of some problem with the things, but that's the nature of any mechanical device....all I can add is that mine has been trouble free for years and was truly an exceptional value.

raa-7
November 12, 2012, 07:37 PM
I have one but I havent owned it long enough to really put any wear on it,tho I like to shoot it whenever I get the chance to.Like MCgunner said,,it's no Rugger OA(Rugers are Tanks) but its built strong and with quality.Having the steel frame and top strap makes for a strong revolver for sure. From what I've researched about them before I actually bought one,made me get one because at first I was a little reluctant buying one because of the prices.I mean lets face it you get what you pay for rgt? But when I read all I could about them I got one and I'm very pleased with it.It shoots more accurately than I thought it would,in fact it surprised me.I have read quite a few times about how much better these reproduction revolvers are built these days and wouldnt hesitate to get another.

Majes
November 12, 2012, 08:28 PM
I bought one in 2011 and another in 2012, they are both very tight F&F. The 2011 seemed a bit better than the 2012 but I think it's down to luck of the draw to be honest.

Ya get some real nice ones from Uberti and Pietta, then ya might get a dud. Good thing is Cabala's will work with ya if ya do get a dude.

Worth the gamble in my experience.

TomADC
November 12, 2012, 08:47 PM
If your going to buy this will save you $20.

http://www.cabelas.com/custserv/rebate.jsp?rebateCode=9RD951&WT.tsrc=EML&WT.mc_id=email-nl&eid=23332627&cmp=EP20121110&seg=Active_Subscribers_NonClub&cnt=8962

Rom828
November 12, 2012, 11:10 PM
I've got a '58 in .44 that was made in 1994 I got at a gun show for fifty bucks that is my favorite shooter. Very sturdy and accurate. My newer ones (a few years old) seem to have lighter mainsprings thus easier to cock the hammer on. A '58 is perfect to learn on, better sights, comes apart easy and you'll get to learn the internal parts when you have to clean it. The Colt clones are great too, but dealing with the cylinder wedge can be intimidating for beginners.

YumaKid
November 13, 2012, 08:21 AM
Have two, one each with 8" and 5-1/2" barrels. Shoot them exclusively.

Okay not exclusively; but the smokeless firearms spend a LOT less time sending lead downrange.

mjsdwash
November 13, 2012, 10:11 PM
so they sound pretty good then, i guess ill give it a shot, thank you for all of your replies

Gaucho Gringo
November 13, 2012, 10:12 PM
I have two of the Pietta 1858 Remingtons. The one I bought new about 8 years ago, the other I bought used about five. the one I bought new I put a Kirst conversion cylinder in it, the other I shoot as it was intended. Neither one of them has given me any problems. The one I bought new I backed off the main spring adjustment screw in the grip which contrary to popular lore works fine like it is supposed to do on my gun. Go ahead and buy one.

eddiegun
November 13, 2012, 10:33 PM
I have a Pietta 1858 NMA that I bought at Cabelas about a year and a half ago. I have fired about 800 rounds through her. No issue's. It's still hard to believe that a firearm of this quality could be purchased for $170 in 2011-2012.

mykeal
November 14, 2012, 07:50 AM
issues with frame cracking, or mechanical wear, cylinder timing? Ive scene the older colt clones have this type of issue.
Does anyone else wonder what he's talking about here?

MCgunner
November 14, 2012, 03:59 PM
Quote:
issues with frame cracking, or mechanical wear, cylinder timing? Ive scene the older colt clones have this type of issue.
Does anyone else wonder what he's talking about here?

Yeah. Never heard of steel frame guns with premature wear, maybe overloaded brassers. I had THAT problem, but I didn't know any better back then than just to stuff it full of fffg and go for it, .44 navy, too.

I must say, while the Colts point well, I do prefer the Remmies for shooting beyond point shooting ranges. The sights tend to be better regulated and they tend to better accuracy in my experience. I think they make better guns for the beginner, and yeah, I gave 170 from Cabela's for mine last year and I, too, find it hard to figure how one can get such quality for that price. It's really impressive and NO, I'm not complaining. :D I'd urge the beginner to buy a steel framed gun. I got that steel framed remmy for a brass framed price. Amazing.

double-tap leather
November 14, 2012, 11:08 PM
I've had one for several years, when I first got it I didn't know what I was doing so I loaded each cylinder with 45gr of powder (150% power) and shot it like that for awhile...:eek:...then started using pyrodex 30gr pellets. No issues whatsoever! I love it, I want to get a 5 1/2" bbl version and make an old-west cowboy rig so I can walk around the house actin' like an outlaw!lol Here's a pic of a holster I made for a friends 1858

Logan5579
November 15, 2012, 01:08 PM
I bought two back in 2005, an 8 inch and a 5 and half inch, still shoot them and no problems at all. Take care of the gun and it will take care of you if you ever need it to.

Rom828
November 15, 2012, 10:02 PM
The only down side I can think of on the Remington clones is they foul up faster than the Colts.

damoc
November 17, 2012, 11:41 PM
The only down side I can think of on the Remington clones is they foul up faster than the Colts.
i could not help but reply to this they dont foul if loaded correctly

ive got a 58 pietta and im pretty sure im into the thousands and shooting stiff loads
with no problems

mjsdwash
November 18, 2012, 02:15 PM
what i meant was cylinders coming out of timing. Or small parts breaking. A colt 51 i bought cheap tended to have the cylinder spin free after it got a little dirty. Since ive never used a 1858, im just wondering about the parts quality, and tolerance to a lot of use. I think you pretty well answered the question thou, and ive already order the gun and am just waiting for it to get to the store. $197 otd, It really looks like fun. The tulalip, wa cabelas dosent stock them thou, so i have to wait.

mitchz
November 18, 2012, 07:55 PM
The onlything I can add to the previos posts is if you can, go stainless. All of the pietta/uberti replicas are of very good quality, durability and accuracy. But the stainless versions are so much more fun to shoot because they are so much more aesy to clean at the range and at the end of the day.

Rom828
November 18, 2012, 10:22 PM
Without cleaning it 'cause it's to gummed up to shoot? I don't think so.

damoc
November 19, 2012, 11:58 PM
Without cleaning it 'cause it's to gummed up to shoot? I don't think so.
yeah its a trick that the old civil war vets had

bacon grease

if you load it correctly everytime you slide on the cyl to the cyl pin it washes it basically.

i can go hundreds of shots and many months without a cleaning (accuracy will probably suffer some) but not reliability

also dont use crisco.

Driftwood Johnson
November 22, 2012, 12:50 PM
Howdy

I will second the notion that a Remmie tends to bind up sooner than a Colt style C&B. The Remmie has no bushing at the front of the cylinder. In normal operation, fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap will tend to accumulate on the pin the cylinder rotates around. This is the main cause of binding in a C&B revolver (any revolver actually, particularly if shot with Black Powder).

Here is a photo of the barrel/cylinder area of one of my Remmies (that I bought in 1975). Yes, that is a cartridge conversion cylinder, but it does not matter, there is no bushing on the front of this cylinder either.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/cylinders/Remington1858closeup.jpg

Here is the front of both a Remmie C&B cylinder and a replacement cartridge conversion cylinder. Notice the front of the cylinders is flat.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/cylinders/Cylinders-2.jpg

What this means is that the front of the cylinder, where the pin protrudes, is directly in line with the barrel/cylinder gap. Any fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap will be blasted directly onto the pin, and this is a major contributor to fouling.

Remington realized this design deficiency and they added a bushing to the front of their 1875 cartridge model, but the 1858 model and its replicas lacks this feature.

Here is a comparison of both a Colt style C&B and a Remmie. Yes, the Colt also lacks a bushing at the front of the cylinder, but there are two features that help keep the Colt shooting longer without binding. The first is, the arbor the cylinder turns around on the Colt is a larger diameter. This helps spread the fouling out more so it does not build up quite so thick as it does on the narrower pin of the Remington. The second feature is the helical relief cuts on the Colt arbor. These cuts provide a relief where fouling can be deposited without building up enough to cause binding. And the helical design of the relief cuts helps drive any fouling off the high spots and down into the grooves. You can see that I have cut some relief grooves in the cylinder pin of this Remmie. I fill them with Bore Butter before shooting the gun. Even with this adaptation, it does not help much and I usually have to clean the face of the cylinder of the Remmie after each cylinder full. I don't have to do that with the Colt style C&B.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/cylinders/arborandpin.jpg





With all due respect, I get a bit annoyed when somebody claims their technique (wiping bacon onto the front of the cylinder and the pin) is the 'correct' technique for doing anything. It is simply a workaround for an inferior design.




To discuss this point just a bit further, notice the fronts of these cylinders, left to right an Uberti Cattleman, Ruger Vaquero, and 2nd Gen Colt Single Action Army. The bushings on the fronts of these cylinders perform the function of deflecting BP fouling away from the cylinder pin. When loaded with a bullet with sufficient Black Powder compatible bullet lube, these guns can be fired for many rounds without the need to rub anything onto the cylinder face or pin to prevent binding.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/cylinders/cylinderbushings.jpg


These next two photos illustrate the concept. This photo clearly shows the prominent bushing on the front of my S&W New Model Number Three. Notice how far removed horizontally the barrel/cylinder gap is from the front of the bushing.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/My%20New%20Model%20Number%20Three/BarrelCylinderGap02.jpg


Here is a photo of the parts, disassembled. The bushing is pressed into the body of the cylinder, and it fits over the arbor which is pressed into the barrel assembly. Notice also the helical cuts on the cylinder arbor which will trap any fouling that manages to get past the bushing. This gun can be shot for dozens of rounds, without any attention at all to the cylinder, without wiping anything on the cylinder, and without cleaning anything, because it was designed during the Black Powder era with the lessons learned from earlier guns, like the 1858 Remington.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/My%20New%20Model%20Number%20Three/CylinderandArbor.jpg



So. Having said all that, I do think the 1858 Remington design is an excellent gun for the modern Black Powder shooter. All that has to be done to keep it shooting is to remove the cylinder and wipe off the front and the cylinder pin with a damp rag every cylinder full or too. The design of the gun makes popping the cylinder out very simple and quick, which is why I like it for cartridge conversion cylinders. Much quicker and simpler to pop the cylinder out of a Remmie than a Colt style C&B.

My Remmies are also extremely accurate, easily just as accurate as my cartridge guns.

Yes, these are inexpensive guns, and there is not a whole lot of custom fitting that goes into them. The actions can wear and they can go a little bit out of time. And springs do occasionally break. But for the price, they are a great gun.

unknwn
November 23, 2012, 08:44 PM
Driftwood, I love your S&W Number 3. Such a fabulous looking piece of shooting iron.
And thanks again for your great photos and the time you take to explain the nuances of the early revolvers, thier reproductions, and everything else about BlackPowderdom that you are willing to share with us.

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