Need advice for .45ACP 1911 Purchase


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JazzDoc
November 12, 2012, 02:51 PM
About to buy a full size 1911 .45ACP. I'm down to three choices - please offer your candid opinion, pros and cons, regarding these options, and thanks in advance:

1) Ed Brown Special Forces, 5 inch

2) Kimber Gold Match II

3) Colt Gold Cup National Match


Thanks.

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cyclopsshooter
November 12, 2012, 03:00 PM
Carry or target? The Kimber and Colt are target guns with sights that may not be the best for carry. I would rank overall pistol quality 1 Ed B 2 Colt 3 Kimber

If you want to spend money get the Ed Brown. The Colt will serve you just as well for less. The Kimber probably would too.

smalls
November 12, 2012, 03:01 PM
The fit, finish, accuracy and warranty of the Ed Brown will make the other two look like BB guns.

JazzDoc
November 12, 2012, 04:47 PM
Thanks very much for the replies, guys. Appreciated greatly.

Target and personal home defense, not carry.

Simmy952
November 12, 2012, 06:15 PM
Kimber would be the last one on the list. Colts are ok but they put a lot on their name. Check out Sig Sauer's line of 1911. For what you are going to drop on a EB, you could buy 2 Sigs and still have some jingle left in your pocket. I bought 2 of the Sigs and they are a very good value for the money. Check out their features. The fit and finish on them are top notch. My first 1911 was a Les Baer. That was when I thought you had to drop lots of cash to get a good 1911. Try one or check them out and I think you will be impressed.

cyclopsshooter
November 12, 2012, 06:24 PM
Sig is just as mimtastic as Kimber

EddieNFL
November 12, 2012, 06:30 PM
1) Brown

2) Colt

13) Kimber

No, the 13 is not a typo.

BYJO4
November 12, 2012, 07:26 PM
I suggest you also consider a Les Baer PII. For accuracy and quality construction, you get alot for the money. I definitely prefer adjustable sights for range guns and won't cause any problems with home defense use. If you want a Brown, I would get the Executive Target.

jim243
November 12, 2012, 07:47 PM
Gee I get the feeling some people don't like Kimbers (LOL). Take a look at the Sig and STI http://www.stiguns.com/the-sti-eagle/

Jim

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt284/bigjim_02/IMG_1224.jpg

cyclopsshooter
November 12, 2012, 07:52 PM
:D

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/wrc376/IMG_1501.jpg

burk
November 12, 2012, 08:22 PM
Sig is just as mimtastic as Kimber
And so is Colt. I don't get the reverence toward Colt. We just got a new Special Agent in and the fit and finish wasn't much better than ATI. Kimber still makes GREAT 1911's for the money if you compare them feature for feature. The Ed Brown should be a better gun, but I've sold and owned enough Kimbers where I have no question of their reliability, QC or value. Are they the best? Nope, but I've yet to see an MIM failure with one. There are a few other 1911's I'm impressed with (Dan Wesson in particular), but you'll have a hard time beating a Kimber for the same dollars with an available gun.

tomrkba
November 12, 2012, 08:26 PM
Just buy the Ed Brown gun and get it over with.

Pilot
November 12, 2012, 08:31 PM
I bought two Colt 1911's in the last few years, and both have been flawless.

cyclopsshooter
November 12, 2012, 08:32 PM
And so is Colt. I don't get the reverence toward Colt. We just got a new Special Agent in and the fit and finish wasn't much better than ATI. Kimber still makes GREAT 1911's for the money if you compare them feature for feature.

Metallurgy, Colt only Mims the mag catch, sear, disconnector. Sig and Kimber go much further by MIMing safties, hammers, slide-stops...

Colt vs ATI... Colt uses forged steel- ATI is cast.. do your metallurgical homework before judging a book by its cover.

JazzDoc
November 12, 2012, 09:32 PM
Again - many thanks for the input and the great photos! Loads of food for thought before I drop that dime.

CZ57
November 12, 2012, 09:43 PM
JazzDoc, in that same price range you have several options with Dan Wesson which I wouldn't feel any need to spend more money with something else. ;)

burk
November 12, 2012, 10:46 PM
Metallurgy, Colt only Mims the mag catch, sear, disconnector. Sig and Kimber go much further by MIMing safties, hammers, slide-stops...

Colt vs ATI... Colt uses forged steel- ATI is cast.. do your metallurgical homework before judging a book by its cover.

But my point is no one has shown me proof of significant failure rates among MIM parts (at least those used by Kimber). For the record I've seen two Bullet Proof Wilson slide stops crack, I've yet to see a Kimber slide stop crack. While Kimber has had some issues notably the external extractor stuff they make some great guns, but people love to take pot shots at them, it just gets old. At least they are building quality guns in the US, and making their own frames. They aren't getting Frames from the Philippines or Brazil like a couple of their competitors. I think they should be applauded for maintaining quality while they keep their production in the US.

My beef with the Colt vs ATI wasn't the metallurgy it was the fit and finish. The Special agent had loads of sharp edges, sloppy fit on the safeties and beavertail and to be frank I was generally unimpressed. For a thousand dollar carry piece they should pay attention to details that make them safer. A carry gun with multiple easily snagged edges is simply not fit for the market.

mljdeckard
November 12, 2012, 10:56 PM
There's nothing wrong with a Kimber. Haters gonna hate.

lobo9er
November 12, 2012, 10:58 PM
Kimber owners how are yours holding up?

MaterDei
November 12, 2012, 11:20 PM
I'd get the Ed Brown.

Why?

Well, I've got a Kimber already. I've had it for 10 years and it's boring. It feeds everything I've ever given it and it shoots wherever I point it. I've fired thousand of rounds through it to include some very sketchy reloads and it has never flinched. Where's the fun in that?

Ed Browns are highly touted. I'd love to get one so that I can find out what it is about them that makes them so great. People say things like:

"The fit, finish, accuracy and warranty of the Ed Brown will make the other two look like BB guns.", or

"1) Brown
2) Colt
13) Kimber
No, the 13 is not a typo.", or

"Just buy the Ed Brown gun and get it over with."

Not sure where I've heard statements like this but if you look hard enough I'm sure you'll find things like these said about Ed Browns. I'm not doubting that the Ed Browns are good, I'd like to own one so that I can finally learn how crappy my Kimber is and what it is that I've been missing all these years.

Colts, too, seem nice but I'm not going to buy one. Colt owners are like Dallas Cowboys' fans, annoying. I'll let others be Colt and Glock fan boys. :p

NWcityguy2
November 12, 2012, 11:36 PM
If money were no object I'd get the Ed Brown, not a hard choice in that scenario. Not a very realistic scenario but not a very difficult on either. Mind you I'd be buying this gun knowing that it isn't going to draw, aim, pull the trigger and reload for me. I've seen a shooter or two who have become greatly frustrated when their high dollar gun is not "shooting" well for them.

If it were my money, something happened to my 1911, I needed a new one and had to choose between those 3, I'd get the Kimber. I've never been impressed with Colts finish, features or trigger for the price. I wouldn't recommend a Gold Cup either if you are planning to shoot JHPs unless you are willing to have a smith work on it.

If you are willing to look outside of the three you listed look at an STI Trojan. Unless someone wants budget or stainless 1911 I think that is one of the very best choices for the price. Odds are slim you will be able to find one locally though.

mljdeckard
November 12, 2012, 11:40 PM
I owned a Colt, there was nothing magical about it. My Kimber is the best handgun I have ever owned. Several of my close friends and family bought them after shooting mine. None have had a significant problem. I have a few more friends who bought cheaper options (like a SA Mil-spec) and they have all said they just should have bought a Kimber.

Skylerbone
November 13, 2012, 02:07 AM
Seems there's a unicorn in the horse race... Not bashing, just trying to inform:

Ed Brown, I've seen a few posts by individuals with slide stop notches peened out after fewer than 1,000 rounds. Otherwise EB makes some beautiful looking 1911s any their owners aren't afraid to tout them.

Kimber, aka MIMber are a high production 1911 that do indeed use quite a few MIM parts. While some companies like S&W will claim the parts are better and raw materials are costlier the true brilliance of MIM is its consistent size and quality (or lack thereof in some cases, again not pointing fingers). That means fewer hands needed to fit parts, fewer rejected parts, less wear on tooling and a net savings to companies. Specific to Kimber 1911s are undersized chambers leading to failures to feed. Not a forgone conclusion that every Kimber will have problems, merely that the potential is heightened by the specs. Last thing of note is with sights. I have read with amusement a half dozen or more threads involving a Kimber owner bending steel punches, mushrooming brass drifts and breaking sight pushers in attempts to remove them while fellow Kimber owners echo the same. If you want different sights have a reputable smith install them.

Colt, can't stake a plunger tube to save their lives! Some are fine on arrival, none that I've bought were. Colt is a brand often compared to other offerings in terms of "fit and finish". Simply put, they have a different philosophy. Colt works to the print and its well stated tolerances as designed by JMB. A 1991 Colt won't come with an interference fit between the barrel and bushing because it was never designed that way. Function takes precedence over form which in today's market doesn't always please the end user with "nicer" options. A Gold Cup was an worthwhile investment for target shooters 30 years ago but that's one model whose reputation has in my mind outlived its status.

If it were my money and a full custom wasn't an option I would consider a very different trio. I mentioned the unicorn, meaning the Brown because of the obvious price gap. To throw another into the mix:

Wilson Supergrade. As refined as the Brown and IMO the better made of the two. Best CS in the firearms industry.

Les Baer. A no-nonsense 1911 built for the long haul with focus on function and accuracy. Not as refined overall as the Wilson (unless you cough up for a Signature which costs more than my car) but the 1911 that says "I'm here for business".

Dan Wesson Valor. A MIM-free small production 1911 whose build quality is everything you might not expect for just a few hundred more than a Colt or Kimber.

My actual dollars would spend $1,000 on a Colt and put another $1,500 in to making it a thoroughbred. I'd pick the barrel, the sights, the safeties and slide stop. Have it dehorned, throated, weld up the rails, set the pull weight to 3 lbs., choose a frontstrap treatment and refinish it.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=163560&d=1335626816

mljdeckard
November 13, 2012, 02:23 AM
All I will say about my Kimber chamber is that it has chewed through all of my amateur reloads without a burp. My Para, on the other hand, had a shallower cut in the rifling, they wouldn't always chamber, I had to start sizing them to fit THAT chamber.

Tophernj
November 13, 2012, 05:16 AM
I would go with the Brown. My buddy has one and it is a wonderful shooter. I can't put into words what makes it "better" but it's there.

I love my Kimber. MIM or no, she's an amazingly accurate shooter that eats everything.

Colt... in my experience they pattern more than group.

Best of luck.

C

CountGlockulla
November 13, 2012, 06:42 AM
I vote Brown out of those choices

JazzDoc
November 13, 2012, 08:06 AM
Superb responses, all. Thanks once again.

Skylerbone, you really have me taking second looks now - terrific reply.

smalls
November 13, 2012, 09:54 AM
Not sure where I've heard statements like this but if you look hard enough I'm sure you'll find things like these said about Ed Browns. I'm not doubting that the Ed Browns are good, I'd like to own one so that I can finally learn how crappy my Kimber is and what it is that I've been missing all these years.

No one ever said your Kimber was crappy. What I said was that the Brown is superior.

Think of it this way: would you rather drive a Chevy, a Ford, or a Porche?

The Chevy and the Ford are both nice cars, and will get you from point A to B just fine, but there's just something about showing up to work in a Porche you can't beat.

Kyle M.
November 13, 2012, 10:03 AM
I've owned the gold cup and a kimber gold match ii. IMO the kimber was a much better gun it was fitted and finished alot nicer than my gold cup and was quite a bit more accurate. While the brown is superior to both I have shot them and unless your going to shoot it from a ransom rest for groups you won't be able to tell a difference. If I were you I would buy the gold match II and spend the rest on ammo or components if you reload. I picked mine up last summer for $1210.00 from a nearby gun shop. Oh and before you read all the kimber hate posts I will let you know I've put almost 15,000 rounds through my GMII all on 5 stock kimber mags, and I haven't had a single malfuntion yet. I also have an RIA GI that is fitted better than any colt I've seen in the past five years and it's not very good. I'm partial to Sig Sauer, and Kimber 1911's but thats just because there the ones I've had the best luck with.

WoodchuckAssassin
November 13, 2012, 10:04 AM
I've seen way to many Kimbers with rusted "stainless Steel" barrels for them to get my vote (though many people will stand by their Kimbers).

Colt is, well, Colt. They've been the gold standard for as long as people have been pulling triggers, buuuuuuut there are many companies out there that are now turning out products just as good as Colt.

My vote is Ed Brown. I have yet to EVER hear a bad word about their guns. If I was going to buy one, Id be the Ed Brown.

Just to be clear, I haven't shot any of these pistols myself, nor will I ever be able to afford one :neener:

Dudemeister
November 13, 2012, 10:11 AM
I can't say I have a lot of 1911 experience, I only own one, but I've shot a few, and if money was an object (and I'm sure it is), I don't think you can do any better for a grand than the Sig 1911, the only possible exception might be the Springfield Armory.

Someone mentioned earlier they spend $1000 for the gun, and another $1500 to tune it up. I just can't see doing that. The Sig has match grade barrel, trigger and sear, it's tight yet smooth and while I'm sure it can be tweaked further, I don't see any point in doing so, because it's better out of the box than I can ever hope to be.

Kyle M.
November 13, 2012, 10:29 AM
I can't say I have a lot of 1911 experience, I only own one, but I've shot a few, and if money was an object (and I'm sure it is), I don't think you can do any better for a grand than the Sig 1911, the only possible exception might be the Springfield Armory.

Someone mentioned earlier they spend $1000 for the gun, and another $1500 to tune it up. I just can't see doing that. The Sig has match grade barrel, trigger and sear, it's tight yet smooth and while I'm sure it can be tweaked further, I don't see any point in doing so, because it's better out of the box than I can ever hope to be.

Yes the Sigs are a very good value for the money in my experience the Sig TacOps is the best 1911 money can buy. The only thing on that gun thats not steel is the aluminum trigger. Also according to a sig rep I spoke to the only MIM parts on there 1911's are the slide stop and disconnector.

f4t9r
November 13, 2012, 10:54 AM
Brown would be the choice, The Kimber is a awesome gun and way better then people give it credit for. I have that very model you are looking at and it is fantastic. But of the 3 you have listed, I would put it 3rd, That is some great company and I have a liking for the pony

Skylerbone
November 13, 2012, 11:12 AM
I'm not gonna bash Kimber or Colt or Sig stock trigger feel, I've found a number that were reasonably crisp and light but I can promise people that there is a difference with a well tuned trigger.

A Match barrel gets its accuracy from being carefully fitted. Over cut any single dimension by a few .001 and it may as well be stamped BASIC GRADE. It isn't that everyone or even most will wring out the accuracy potential of an expertly fit 1911 but why tout features that, for the most part aren't? Testing with barrel fixtures have demonstrated the accuracy gap between Kart Match and Colt standard are minuscule. Everything comes down to the mechanic and the external dimensions of the barrel.

That additional money is more than a tune-up. It's first-rate parts, controls that are ergonomic for you, better fit to extend the life of the pistol and yes, increased accuracy.

Some examples of OEM parts. The bare finish is from initial clean up to remove sharp edges etc. the dots denote these are MIM.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=162483&d=1334017624

OEM barrel from same 1911 with lug shoulders rounding off after ~500 rounds:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=162485&d=1334017965

In contrast, many correctly fit barrels will see upwards of 200,000 rounds before replacement due to wear on the bore.

cyclopsshooter
November 13, 2012, 12:53 PM
Skylerbone is spot-on

From another: Also according to a sig rep I spoke to the only MIM parts on there 1911's are the slide stop

The slide-stop is the small part you LEAST want to be made from MIM

Skylerbone
November 13, 2012, 01:21 PM
Consider that slide stop. One measly part right? Can you spot the one in this picture that cost me $50? Not a drop in part either, but for a hard, tough, dimensionally excellent part was worth it.

http://forums.1911forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79975&d=1334016097

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=162486&d=1334018136

Kyle M.
November 13, 2012, 08:23 PM
Skylerbone is spot-on

From another:

The slide-stop is the small part you LEAST want to be made from MIM
15,000 + rounds through that sig not one malfunction yet. I could care less if the internals were made of paper if they could find a way to make it work and work well. There is no hard evidence to show that MIM is inferior and anyone who has the time to worry about what there gun is made of when it works fine has way too much free time.

cyclopsshooter
November 13, 2012, 09:22 PM
Broadly saying MIM is bad is not my intent. There is good MIM and bad, there are also good parts and bad to choose MIM for. Sure, my M&P40c has a bunch of MIM.. I'm ok with that because those parts were designed with MIM in mind.

The 1911 was designed a century ago to be made from cut steel.

What runs better with a catalyitic converter? The 351 in a 92 F-250 or one of the new engine designs used now?

A Smith revolver is generally slimmer in areas than a Ruger revolver. The Smith is forged, the Ruger is cast... yet Rugers are damn stout.. more dimensional material is used-

This can not be on a 1911- And yes, I have a lot of free-time. I went to school so I could work less for more.

Skylerbone
November 13, 2012, 11:09 PM
Kyle, allow me to elaborate if you will. To further what cyclopsshooter has pointed out there are indeed materials best suited in any application based on need. Take knives for example. Read a few postings the other day about materials use and the reasoning behind it.

One fellow asserted that "harder is better, period". Carbide is hard but brittle, not the sort of material suitable for making blades from. Tough also matters which means a certain amount of flexibility if you will to go along with hardness.

Now MIM is dimensionally uniform from sample to sample but as with any part garbage in is garbage out. Because there is shrinkage during the process the parts mold must be oversized and the mold maker must estimate the final size then compare results to expectations. Also, because this is similar to casting, there will be certain areas that will display irregularities, what we call MIM Dots where material is introduced to the mold.

MIM as noted above is not necessarily "inferior" to barstock material but it will be more porous meaning strength is compromised. The usage determines whether or not that is a factor. That is where a guy like cyclops is concerned about what's in his pistol and where.

Below is one of the slide stops I previously photographed and the thumb safety from the same 1911. This particular pistol was riding the link and was literally cutting into the pin. Measuring the slide stop along the pin also revealed a variance between .195-.200 These are the sort of internals common to off-the-shelf 1911s as was the fit of the barrel which imparted the damage.

The thumb safety clearly displays its dot (not photographed on the slide stop) on the pin, not an area on either that you'd want to sacrifice strength. Again indicative of the species and the reason some of us care to trifle over what's what.

With a Wilson (and some models include MIM parts) or a Baer or DW (neither use MIM) you're not just paying for a name or for accuracy or for a nicer trigger feel or for relieved edges. You're also paying for a pistol carefully fit with excellent parts that will work better and last longer. 15,000 rounds may be 3 lifetimes of shooting to one guy and half a season to the next.

If ever resale value enters the equation for me I have to question the validity of my purchase. IOW, I don't buy firearms to sell.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=174707&stc=1&d=1352866047

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=174708&stc=1&d=1352866047

wacki
November 15, 2012, 02:09 AM
Metallurgy, Colt only Mims the mag catch, sear, disconnector. Sig and Kimber go much further by MIMing safties, hammers, slide-stops...

Colt vs ATI... Colt uses forged steel- ATI is cast.. do your metallurgical homework before judging a book by its cover.

Do they publish this information on their website? I can't find it.

JazzDoc
November 15, 2012, 07:50 AM
Really informative discussion about MIM parts, and well illustrated with the photos, skylerbone.

By the way, after all was said and done I went with a Dan Wesson Valor which is en route to me.

tomrkba
November 15, 2012, 08:16 AM
Do they publish this information on their website? I can't find it.

Most do not.

Get on the 1911 Forum and search for Dave Severn's "shootout" threads. He reviews a variety of guns inside and out.

Skylerbone
November 15, 2012, 08:46 AM
Jazzdoc, I think you're really going to like that Valor. Some say DW used to be a bargain but are overpriced at present. I say show me any other brand 1911 with similar features selling in their price range. You can almost always cue the crickets.

Wrapping up the MIM talk, it is fairly common knowledge as to what is MIM and what is tool steel.

nortncom
November 15, 2012, 08:24 PM
I do not really understand why so many people tend to dislike Kimbers. I have a series 1 Gold Combat and it has been flawless in every aspect. The gun is exceptionally accurate as well. I am new to the 1911 scene however, so I cannot compare the Gold Combat to any other 1911's. Here is a picture.

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w377/nortncom/i081.jpg

RSR
November 15, 2012, 08:38 PM
Dan Wesson Valor/V-Bob! but of that like Ed Brown by far. Colt and Kimber don't even come close to Ed Brown quality. For the price, check out Dan Wesson. IMHO, DW makes the best production 1911. Best of luck to ya...

Pierce
November 15, 2012, 08:38 PM
My (Defender) love it, it almost aims itself. My Kimber is without fault, point shoot very boring, love it. Would love to test an Ed.
(1) Kimber
(2) Defender
or
(1) Defender
)2) Kimber

I worked up a Charles Daley a few years ago that turned into a very fine shooting gun, I actually miss it. It took a little TLC but responded flawlessly with everything I asked of it.

Colts need to get back into more meticulous deburring. Open them up and so often the hanging burrs which shouldn't be there..are. Sharp edges etc. cost cutting is obvious. If you like to tinker they provide the opportunity.

jhco
November 15, 2012, 08:44 PM
Nothing wrong with Ed Brown, but every time I hear someone speak the name I fell compelled to tell them to check out Les Baer before deciding.

CZ57
November 15, 2012, 08:55 PM
Don't mean to bash MIM, but the biggest question involving MIM seems to be how well it's executed. At this time I don't believe it is as well executed as precision casting. I prefer my pistols to not have MIM parts. Not until reports of MIM parts failing cease to exist, anyway.

Ed Brown, Les Baer and Wilson do not use MIM parts. But, at a more reasonable price you can get the excellent Dan Wesson pistols who do not use MIM parts either. Of two shooters I know, one has an Ed Brown and one has a Dan Wesson VBob. After examining and shooting the Dan Wesson, the Ed Brown owner stated that there just isn't any need to spend more for what you get with a Dan Wesson. ;)

RSR
November 15, 2012, 09:07 PM
Agreed, CZ! The DW series of pistols offers a standard of quality unmatched for the asking price. The OP should consider a DW.
I had a MIM-ber Raptor 2, great shooter, but once I took it apart the flaws were noticable, mainly being the guide rod wouldn't stay in place under the spring pressure. It just kept popping up, which makes it impossible to fit frame to slide! The plastic mainspring housing was annoying for the $$ spent, and the finish was botched in places. For supposedly coming from a "custom shop", which I knew before buying it wasn't true, it ranked low on my list as far as value is concerened.
Long story short, my LGS loves selling Kimbers, and knowing this, they had a DW Valor I liked, so I came up with $200 cash and had me a great deal on a DW V-Bob. I couldn't be happier with it!!

1858
November 15, 2012, 09:16 PM
I have the Ed Brown Special Forces "set" and they are superb in just about every way. The one improvement Ed Brown could make is to offer a salt nitride finish. As it is, my SFs are all stainless so I'm not concerned about corrosion. In the spirit of full disclosure, I did have to send the Carry model back to have the chamber deepened just a hair. It's proven to be just fine since then.

http://thr.mcmxi.org/pistols/ed_brown/special_forces/photos/eb_sf_01.jpg

http://thr.mcmxi.org/pistols/ed_brown/special_forces_light_rail/photos/eb_sf_lr_01.jpg

http://thr.mcmxi.org/pistols/ed_brown/special_forces_carry/photos/eb_sfc_02.jpg

RSR
November 15, 2012, 09:23 PM
1858, I'm seriously drooling over your railed EB. Thanks for the gun-porn.

valnar
November 15, 2012, 09:36 PM
The only one from the list I'd buy is the Ed Brown, but I'd go off that list and get a DW Valor or Fusion Firearms instead.

Sapper771
November 15, 2012, 10:11 PM
Of the three, I would stay away from the kimbers.

Yes, I have a very good reason to hate on them.

1858
November 15, 2012, 11:35 PM
The only one from the list I'd buy is the Ed Brown, but I'd go off that list and get a DW Valor or Fusion Firearms instead.

I have a Dan Wesson Valor and V-Bob as well ... the EBs are considerably better with WAY more attention to detail. Both the Valor and V-Bob had numerous issues. The only way I'd buy another DW is through Dave Severns who claims to thoroughly check each DW before he sells them. My experience is that DW quality control sucks!!

Skylerbone
November 16, 2012, 12:09 AM
It may be a moot point as I just read that DW's facility experienced a fire Wednesday which will most certainly hamper production. Severns Custom did have 1 Heritage listed in stock if the OP is quick...might even consider a Hard Hat treatment before it ships.

JazzDoc
November 16, 2012, 12:15 AM
skylerbone, what's a "hard hat" treatment? :confused:

tarosean
November 16, 2012, 12:40 AM
1) Ed Brown Special Forces, 5 inch

2) Kimber Gold Match II

3) Colt Gold Cup National Match



Have you handled any of them or are you just looking at pictures?

Skylerbone
November 16, 2012, 12:41 AM
This: https://severnscustom.com/Hard_Hat_Treatment.html

Ala Dan
November 16, 2012, 09:30 PM
Your first .45 ACP should be a BAER~!!!!!

orionengnr
November 18, 2012, 09:33 PM
The DW series of pistols offers a standard of quality unmatched for the asking price. The OP should consider a DW.
I had a MIM-ber Raptor 2, great shooter, but once I took it apart the flaws were noticable, mainly being the guide rod wouldn't stay in place under the spring pressure. It just kept popping up, which makes it impossible to fit frame to slide!
Well, that's one data point.

My DW was (and is) my biggest disappointment as far as 1911s go.
Of the 25 or so 1911s I have owned in the last 30 years or so, Kimber has provided the best value and reliability of any of the 1911s I have owned.

That includes one Guncrafter Industries .50GI, one Baer, one DW, at least three Colts, three or four Springfields, four Paras, and so on.
The only reason I still have the DW is that Dave Severns actually talked me down off the ledge (on the phone) and helped me get pointed in the right direction....it still had to go to a 1911-smith to get it fully squared away.

I won't even get started on DW's "Customer Support". I would have a hard time recommending a DW to anyone after that experience...

valnar
November 18, 2012, 10:08 PM
I bought my DW back in 2003, before the CZ days. I love it. For those who don't like their DW, when was it made?

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