Question about underslung 'Master Key' type item


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CowardlyHero
November 13, 2012, 05:16 AM
Ran across a niftly little thing called the Zip.
http://www.zipfactory.com/im/zipwhatcando0b.jpg
Little .22 pistol that takes 10/22 magazines, but anyway they show it attached to the bottom rail on a scar(would put it on a shotgun myself) and was wondering if the Zip is registered as an SBR does it matter if its attached to a non NFA host? IE full sized shotgun/rifle? Thanks

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Prince Yamato
November 13, 2012, 09:26 AM
So long as you register it as an sbr, you can attach it to a rifle.

Acera
November 16, 2012, 02:17 PM
So what advantage would this provide?

Are there battlefield targets that are resistant to 5.56mm that can be taken down better by a .22LR?

Don't see a suppressor fitting on that real easy with those prongs out there. (Like a SWAT team could use for streetlights, dogs, etc.)

How can that thing be comfortable to shoot as a stand alone pistol?

Fair warning the video on the following link makes this seem like it's going to be marketed for the video game/mall ninja crowd.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/11/02/usfa-zip-22-lr/

mljdeckard
November 16, 2012, 03:36 PM
I won't bag on him for wanting it. I could see it on say, a shotgun for which I plan on using to zap jackrabbits. However, what would likely run better might be a .22 M-4 upper, with a 18" shotgun rail-attached underneath.

Are we not allowed to have any fun at all? :D

Zoogster
November 16, 2012, 03:53 PM
I think the advantages on a light weight shotgun would be more hunting versatility. Besides a fun range toy you actually have a decent versatile hunting platform.
Something like combination guns, or drillings without the associated cost. Except with a semi-auto .22 that takes what is probably the most common magazine out there instead. For hunting you would use a low capacity magazine that didn't ridiculously stick out the botton.


If it is accurate you could have a setup that would let you hunt small game with the .22 without filling it full of pellets, while also having the shotgun for birds, fast moving things, etc.
I would take stationary things with the .22 and moving things with the shotgun. Preferring the 1 bullet .22 in the meat over a ton of pellets, but not losing the game if I needed to use the shotgun.

It would look ugly, but could be useful.

A longer barrel and an attachment like a scope ring or barrel clamp that allowed the forward portion of the barrel to be secured to the host gun could be even better. Giving better velocity and putting the heavier portion as far to the rear as possible.
In fact you could forgo the SBR requirement altogether if you just put a longer barrel on it in such a setup.

Acera
November 16, 2012, 04:16 PM
I think you guys overestimate the ability to get an accurate shot on any game when it's mounted under a shotgun. Will you mount an optic on the top of the shotgun dedicated for that .22?? How will that impede your use of the shotgun in it's normal capacity? You think you can mount it where the POIs of each are the same? I think you are way off in the fantasy world if you think that you can get the precision you would need for rabbits, squirrels, etc out of such a set up.

Also, I don't get real warm fuzzies about having to put my hand in front of the muzzle to charge the thing. From what I am reading and seeing you use those prongs out front to cycle the action.

CoRoMo
November 16, 2012, 04:57 PM
http://www.zipfactory.com/

Rail Driver
November 16, 2012, 04:57 PM
I think you guys overestimate the ability to get an accurate shot on any game when it's mounted under a shotgun. Will you mount an optic on the top of the shotgun dedicated for that .22?? How will that impede your use of the shotgun in it's normal capacity? You think you can mount it where the POIs of each are the same? I think you are way off in the fantasy world if you think that you can get the precision you would need for rabbits, squirrels, etc out of such a set up.

Also, I don't get real warm fuzzies about having to put my hand in front of the muzzle to charge the thing. From what I am reading and seeing you use those prongs out front to cycle the action.

The US Military (and various other militaries) gets pretty good accuracy with 40mm grenades out of the M203 slung under an M16/M4... There's also a folding dedicated grenade sight. POI/POA are not going to be the same, but you can't validly state that hunting accuracy isn't possible out of a rig like that - you just have to know how the distance of the sights over the bore affects the relationship between point of aim, point of impact and trajectory. The .22 and the host weapon don't need to be regulated to the same set of sights, nor do they need to be regulated to the same POI/POA for them to be precise and accurate.

I agree that putting your hand in front of the muzzle in order to charge the weapon is a significant design flaw, especially in a rimfire platform where you stand a much greater likelihood of having to clear a "dud" round that could still fire.

jmorris
November 16, 2012, 05:30 PM
I don't think you need to hit a 2" target with a grenade, and if you were to put it under a shotgun, precision is what you would want it for.

I'll take a savage 24 instead for usefull purposes.

mljdeckard
November 16, 2012, 05:33 PM
Correct. You lob the grenades.

CowardlyHero
November 17, 2012, 02:24 AM
I was thinking to use it more as a stand off device as you reload your shotgun. Wouldn't bother to use it for hunting my self but wouldn't mind it in there survival configuration.

bigfatdave
November 17, 2012, 04:10 AM
It's a $200 toy that takes cheap ammo and magazines I have at least a dozen of (probably closer to two dozen)

I'll buy one as a toy, who needs a practical purpose?

USAF_Vet
November 17, 2012, 10:52 AM
I want one. Can't mount it to mt AR or my shotgun since MI does not allow SBR or SBS. Still looks like a fun little range toy.

jmorris
November 18, 2012, 12:07 AM
I was thinking to use it more as a stand off device as you reload your shotgun. Wouldn't bother to use it for hunting my self but wouldn't mind it in there survival configuration.In that case, if a 12ga does not work to "stand off" a 22lr would be a less than ideal choice, as a back up.

MasterSergeantA
November 18, 2012, 01:52 PM
I want one. Can't mount it to mt AR or my shotgun since MI does not allow SBR or SBS. Still looks like a fun little range toy.
I agree. Can't see a reason to mount it on one of my ARs; that is what the 12" 870 on the .50 Beowulf is for. But it looks like fun and I will probably get one when they are available.

sawdeanz
November 18, 2012, 08:42 PM
I don't understand why you would have it under a rifle (unless it was a sniper rifle for close engagements) but under an SD shotgun it makes sense although I would trust the .22 round for self defense from a longer barrel more.
As a plinker it would probably excel if it had some minor redesigns to maximize it for that role.
From the video it looks like they are going to make a survival version also which is cool.

Edit: Just thought of another role, which would be concealed pdw type thing, its shape and no slide thing could make it good as a briefcase/binder gun.

Swing
November 18, 2012, 10:30 PM
I'll buy one as a toy, who needs a practical purpose?

Quite so.

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