M-1 Garand cycling issues


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Keeperfaith
November 13, 2012, 04:38 AM
I shot an M-1 Garand for the first time yesterday. It's a really beat up rifle. I didn't clean off all the gunk like I should have but regardless I figured w/ the powerful 30-06 round the gun wouldn't have much trouble functioning.

Every round would not cycle. I had to manually pull the bolt back and eject each round. A couple of rounds would get stuck in the bolt as if they were trying to be ejected.

Is there away to change the amount of gas?
Or is there perhaps other issues that may be present?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Steve

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Reloadron
November 13, 2012, 05:15 AM
Steve,

My first advice would be to thoroughly field strip and clean the rifle. That being sort of a cardinal starting point. Check the op-rod for free travel and make sure it isn't binding. You could try this simple test.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIoxbtdPXY) Known as a tilt test.
Next, you don't mention what you were shooting for ammunition?

There are plenty of possibles for a rifle Short Recoil issue but as a start I would clean the rifle completely then try again with known good ammunition suitable for a M1 Garand. Then, if problems persist start looking at the gas system and other possible causes. Make sure the gas cylinder is tight, try again and let us know how you do.

Ron

BBBBill
November 13, 2012, 05:54 PM
^^^^^ This. Also, as noted above, be very aware that not all 30-06 ammo is suitable for use in the Garand.

Orlando
November 13, 2012, 06:07 PM
Before you do ANYTHING else do a complete tear down , clean and properly GREASE the rifle.
A Garand can and will malfunction if the is preservative in the gas system.
Also a smart thing to do is replace the Op Rod spring with one from Orion 7
Otherwise you may be chasing your tail looking for a problem that doesnt exist except you dont have a clean properly lubed rifle

After doing the above then test fire the rifle, if problem still exists then post back with a detailed description of what is happening along with ammo type etc

Reloadron
November 13, 2012, 06:53 PM
To add to Orlando's post, these are the lube points. (http://www.nicolausassociates.com/PDF/M1GarandRifleGreasePoints.pdf) A good grease is Lubriplate if you can get it. Look for the metal on metal surfaces. Here is a CMP write up on the subject also. (http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/assemblyhtml/reassemblefeed2.html)

Ron

Keeperfaith
November 13, 2012, 11:55 PM
The ammo I used is hand loaded ammo. All the measurements I made were double checked. The bullet is 150 grain FMJ spire point. The brass was inspected, cleaned, trimmed, deburred and cleaned again. Then primed w/ Winchester Large Rifle primers.
The powder was 44 grains of Win 748 (the min grains of powder was 42, max is 48 I think). Im sure the ammo was dead on.

Ive loaded 40, 9 mm, 45 acp with excellent results.


Thanks for the ideas. Ill look into them. i did clean the heck out of it after I got back from the range. Honestly, I know my barrel is "fried", its super frosty and the lands and grooves are really weak... That explains my poor accuracy. But I dont think that would have anything to do w/ the cycling.

I think I would like to replace the barrel so the gun wont be a wall hanger. What do yall think? Maybe change it to .308?

The gun is pretty beat up, stock and metal. Some pitting and the parkerization is almost non existent. I'll load some pics next.
Thanks
Steve

Keeperfaith
November 14, 2012, 12:04 AM
Let me ask another question.

WHen your doing the "slide" test do I take out the all the internal parts that are removable and just leave the rod and bolt on?

Thanks

Keeperfaith
November 14, 2012, 12:18 AM
Another question:

Its a CAI import and the serial number shows it was manufactured in 1945.

Any idea where it came from (or where it was used) since it was imported by CAI?

It has a spot of blue paint on the bottom of the pistol grip, any idea why that part was painted blue?

I bought it in a pawn shop and I KNOW I paid too much for it (600).

thanks

Reloadron
November 14, 2012, 04:56 AM
My best guess for a CAI import would be Korea as they imported thousands back from Korea and that is only a guess. Yes, considering what the CMP offers up these days for just over $600 you paid a high price but that is all hindsight now so I wouldn't worry about it.

I would start as Orlando suggest with replacing the operating rod spring. One problem is that to really inspect the parts there are tools and gauges needed that the average shooter does not have. The gas cylinder for example should be gauged. Without the correct gauges or really knowing some dimensions the basic shooter is left guessing and replacing parts one by one which gets expensive. If the gas tube has a loose fit and wobbles you could be losing gas there or if the gas port in the barrel is filled with carbon that would cause problems. The list goes on and on.

Orlando is one of the most knowledgeable members on the M1 Garand so let's see what he suggest at this point.

Ron

Keeperfaith
November 14, 2012, 05:48 AM
Thanks Ron, I await Orlando's reply.

And by the way, I just ordered some grease and a new Orion 7 operating rod spring. I also already cleaned the crap out of the rifle... Maybe the barrel was so gunked up the gas hole was covered...Hopefully I got it done right. As soon as the spring and grease come in, I'll replace the spring, grease her up properly and see if she cycles correctly.

Thanks
Steve

Keeperfaith
November 14, 2012, 07:16 PM
Good news, my M-1 Garand passed the tilt test w/ no problems. The gas cylinder is tight.

Im waiting on the grease and new operating rod spring to come in, then I'll take her for another test fire.

Thx

Steve

BBBBill
November 14, 2012, 07:36 PM
Folks often suggest the Kuhnhausen books for the 1911. He wrote one on M-1s and M-14s, too. Worth having if you own one of these guns.

Reloadron
November 14, 2012, 08:02 PM
Good news, my M-1 Garand passed the tilt test w/ no problems. The gas cylinder is tight.

Im waiting on the grease and new operating rod spring to come in, then I'll take her for another test fire.

Thx

Steve
Good, so grease it up when the grease comes, put in the new spring and let's see what happens. Also, per BBBBill, the Kuhnhausen book The US .30 Caliber Service Rifles A Shop Manual is very, very good reference material. The book is a full shop manual for the M1 and M1A (M14) rifles.

Ron

Orlando
November 15, 2012, 07:39 PM
When I said to make sure it was clean I wasnt speaking of the bore
You need to dissasemble all the receiver internals and clean them ,also the inside receiver rails, op rod track etc.
You dont need any so called high tech gun grease
Go to the local auto parts store and buy a tube of wheel bearing grease. Wont cost much and last a lifetime

Being a CAI Import your probelms may be deeper. They are know for having worn out of spec parts.
Get her clean and well greased, install the Op Rod spring and fire again.
If you still have issues we can go from there

Keeperfaith
November 16, 2012, 11:58 PM
Thanks guys, the spring and grease came in today. The grease was called Lubriplate 130 (14 oz) so it should last forever. I already cleaned the gun. I'll take it Monday and we'll see what happens.

Thanks

PS: I contacted Shuff and he said he could fix it...but we'll see if this is a good fix, then I'll send it to him to rebarrel it and re-parkerize it...she needs it badly!!

Steve

Orlando
November 17, 2012, 06:50 AM
If rifle is that wore chances are gas cylinder and piston are also worn and may be causing your problems

Reloadron
November 17, 2012, 08:15 AM
If you get into parkerizing the rifle and replacing parts to get it functioning correctly consider a new stock from Boyds or like. Parts for these rifles have gone up in cost and a good source is the CMP program. Hope all works out well.

Ron

4v50 Gary
November 17, 2012, 09:19 AM
keeperfaith - you did mention the gas port. You've cleaned it, right? Even if you try just a wood toothpick to poke at the hole.

Keeperfaith
November 21, 2012, 12:22 AM
Actually I didnt even think about the gas port hole...

Uhh how do I get to it?

Take off gas screw, then front sight and slide off gas tube? Im asking here Ive not taken the gun apart further than just to clean the barrel and reciever.

And just to let yall know when I took out off the old operating rod spring I noticed the old spring is bent closer to the reciever and its not even as long as the new spring...

I still havent got to shoot it yet.

Hopefully soon,

Thanks
Steve

Reloadron
November 21, 2012, 03:26 AM
No need to remove the front sight. Using this parts diagram (http://www.chestnutridge.com/gpic.asp) you first remove #25 the gas cylinder plug. A large screwdriver will work. Next unscrew #24 the gas cylinder lock. With the screw and lock removed slide the gas tube forward with front sight attached. The gas tube is mounted on splines machined into the barrel. If it is real tight gently tap from behind using a plastic or rubber hammer. It should slide off. You will see the gas port hole at the 6 O'Clock on the barrel. Make sure that hole and the gas tube are clean.

The gas tube should have a tight fit on the barrel and should not easily wobble (partially rotate) back and forth. It should fit tight on the mentioned splines.

Ron

blackwalnut
November 22, 2012, 11:34 PM
Keeperfaith some may have mentioned this to you but make sure the small end of the operating rod fits into the little groove along side the receiver of the rifle. You would be surprised at how many so called experts dont pay attention to this detail and then the rifle doesnt cycle.

I am not a Garand freak but I have put together more than 1 Garand that wouldnt work for its owner. Try the simple stuff first. Hope its just that.

A 1945 vintage rifle has got to be forgiven for honest use and abuse as its just part of the history of this country since WWll.

Have fun with it and be safe.

Keeperfaith
November 26, 2012, 04:03 PM
Shot the Garand again today. NO DICE!!! Still won't cycle. I took the gas cover off and discovered that the gas cover slides too far down into the splines Ron mentioned. Therefore the gas cover completely covers the gas port hole in the barrel. I put the gas cover over the new (used) barrel and it doesn't completely cover the gas hole.

Now I just need to change out the barrel and I think that'll solve the problem.

I did take my other Garand to shoot (so the trip to the range wouldn't be a waste). The other Garand shot AWESOME!!!!! I got pretty good groups at 50 yards...

Thanks
Steve

Orlando
November 26, 2012, 04:11 PM
Changing the barrel wont keep the gas cylinder from covering the gas port
You are sliding the gas cylinder on to far. If the gas cylinder has rotational movement you can peen the splines on the barrel. This was a arseanl fix

carbine85
November 26, 2012, 05:35 PM
Changing the barrel wont keep the gas cylinder from covering the gas port
You are sliding the gas cylinder on to far. If the gas cylinder has rotational movement you can peen the splines on the barrel. This was a arseanl fix

^This^
This is a very common repair.

Reloadron
November 26, 2012, 05:57 PM
This explains the peening process (http://www.thecmp.org/Sales/askarmorergascylinderpeen.htm) being talked about. Should work fine so you may want to give it a try. Give that a try and see if you can't tighten things up a little.

Ron

Blue68f100
November 26, 2012, 07:56 PM
The grand take a special powder suitable for it's gas action. Look in your reload books for recommend powder or over on the reloading threads.

Keeperfaith
November 26, 2012, 08:17 PM
I used Win 748 and I had asked on the reloading portion before hand about using it for Garand loads. The guys over there said it would be perfectly fine w/ this powder.


As far as the peening goes, I'll look into it but I may not bother considering the bore is so worn one out of three shots is not even on the 3x5 target (at 50 yards).

I already bought a new used barrel that still has a shiney bore.

Now I'm not so sure that I'd have the same problem w/ the gas cover covering the hole w/ the new barrel. I slid the gas cover over the new barrel and it does not slide down as far as it does on the old barrel. I could actually still see the gas port w/ the gas cover on the new barrel. On the old barrel the gas hole was completely covered. I even measured the visible groove that is showing on the barrel from the gas cover (as it was on the barrel). The groove was only showing less than half of 1mm on the old barrel. The new one had 1mm of the groove exposed.

LMK what yall think

Steve

Reloadron
November 27, 2012, 05:08 AM
If you have a barrel and someone competent in rebarreling a M1 Garand then obviously it can't hurt to rebarrel. I have several take off barrels lying around. One problem with a used barrel is they don't always like to easily index correctly. That can be a headache. Also whoever does the work will need the correct tools to rebarrel a M1 Garand.

If you scroll down the link I left for peening you will see where they get into the gap between the forward handguards and the gas cylinder. That may be of some help to you.

Ron

Orlando
November 27, 2012, 05:50 AM
Steve
Thats why it was suggested to peen the splines on the barrel so the "Gas Cylinder" sets where it should. Its not unususl
Was trying to help you with the barrel you have. If you are going to change it anyways why bother
Hopefully you gauged the other barrel you are thinking of useing for replacement? Just beacuse its shiney doesnt mean the throat or muzzle isnt worn

Keeperfaith
November 27, 2012, 11:31 AM
Thanks guys. The barrel I bought does have a shiney bore and here are the specs given by the seller TE=5.5 and MW=2. Not a perfect brand new rifle but I'm just hoping to get decent groups. It's not even for competetion, I just want somthing that looks good, shoots good and works. I plan on changing the stock too. And of course a reparkerizing job.

Thanks

119er
November 29, 2012, 12:54 AM
My .02 is that on my rebuilt M1:
A. Had a cracked gas plug
B. Had a new barrel, spring and stock installed. The stock rubbed the op rod just forward of the cutout in the stock and the spring had to have coils clipped one at a time until it cycled reliably. Total of three removed.
Now it runs and shoots like a champ!

You may notice groups shrink after peening your splines too.

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