Why so much effort on 9mm sizer?


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MGRAY
November 14, 2012, 08:56 PM
Hi,,Been reloading 38 sp and 357 for a couple years. Just started to reload 9mm. My question is this,, Why does it take so much more effort in the resize die for the 9 then it does for 357 mag? I use a LCT and Lee die set. Thanks

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Lost Sheep
November 14, 2012, 09:17 PM
Hi,,Been reloading 38 sp and 357 for a couple years. Just started to reload 9mm. My question is this,, Why does it take so much more effort in the resize die for the 9 then it does for 357 mag? I use a LCT and Lee die set. Thanks
The .357 and .38 cases are cylindrical. The 9mm chamber (and new factory brass) is tapered slightly.

Extending those facts by logic:

When resizing 9mm with a sizing die that has the carbide ring at the mouth, you are compressing that tapered casing into a cylinder, working the lower part of the case a lot more than the upper part. It doesn't get any better once you have sized it once, either, since on each firing the case gets blown out to the chamber dimensions, which, per SAAMI specs, is tapered.

If you had a 9mm chamber made with a cylindrical shape, you would not be able to chamber factory ammunition and would have to size new brass to fit your chamber before even the first loading. However, you would find reloading YOUR brass to be as easy as 38 special after that.

I am told the reason for the taper is to ensure reliable, easy feeding in fully automatic and semi-automatic military and police weapons (used all over the world).

Lost Sheep

MGRAY
November 14, 2012, 09:37 PM
Thanks for spelling that out for me. Makes sense now. Marty

ReloaderFred
November 15, 2012, 01:45 AM
Just lightly spray your 9x19 brass with any brand case lube and they'll go through your sizing die like greased lightning. In fact, you don't even have to spray them all, just about 20% of them and run a lubed case through the die about every 7 or 8 cases. After sizing, then tumble them in plain corn cob for about 20 minutes to remove the lube. Your arm will thank you.

Hope this helps.

Fred

ArchAngelCD
November 15, 2012, 01:59 AM
I also use a light coat of One Shot on my 9mm and 45 Auto brass. It makes the sizing a lot easier, really, a lot...

Walkalong
November 15, 2012, 07:37 AM
Just lightly spray your 9x19 brass with any brand case lube and they'll go through your sizing die like greased lightning.Just be careful you don't throw your arm out the first time you try it when there is no resistance on the handle. ;)

918v
November 15, 2012, 09:57 AM
Spraying cases with lube will get lube inside the cases.

Can you see a problem?

joustin
November 15, 2012, 10:15 AM
Nope, tumble after sizing to remove the lube.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

tcj
November 15, 2012, 10:19 AM
I use the Hornady 1-shot and do not clean after resizing...no problems with over 3,000 rounds of 9mm so far.

918v
November 15, 2012, 10:31 AM
Nope, tumble after sizing to remove the lube.

So you are spray lubing 9mm for sizing on a single stage press? I dunno about your press, but mine has plenty of leverage to size 9mm w/o lube. Not lubing saves a lot of time.

Certaindeaf
November 15, 2012, 10:42 AM
^
All presses have plenty of leverage to size 9mm without lube. The lube makes it way easier.
It takes about five seconds to lube a sack full and costs probably ten to fifteen cents per thousand. No removal necessary.

918v
November 15, 2012, 11:05 AM
and people complain about bullet setback and blame it on expander plugs and bad sizers, but its probably the lube that got into the case.

rcmodel
November 15, 2012, 11:40 AM
I use spray lube on every caliber handgun case I load.

We are not talking about soaking them in lube, so contamination is not going to happen, whether you tumble them after or not.

Just a light spritz in a mixing bowl full of cases and stir therm around with your hand.

A very little goes a long way in easing sizing pressure.

rc

rbernie
November 15, 2012, 11:51 AM
I switched to Dillon sizer dies and found that they don't need nearly as much force to size 9mm as did my Lee and RCBS dies. Dunno why.

Certaindeaf
November 15, 2012, 12:41 PM
and people complain about bullet setback and blame it on expander plugs and bad sizers, but its probably the lube that got into the case.
You ever finger diddle a greased lead bullet? Take that lube off there and yer good to go! not

Uniquedot
November 15, 2012, 01:03 PM
When i lube nines i spray the lube on an old towel and wrap the cases up in it and give them a shake or two.

beatledog7
November 15, 2012, 01:13 PM
I agree with those who add a touch of spray lube to handgun cases. After tumbling the batch of brass, put it into a plastic coffee can (no more than 2/3 full), spray in a half second-burst of One-Shot or whatever spray lube you like, put on the lid, shake lightly, repeat a couple of times.

This adds just enough slickness to make resizing a breeze even with carbide dies. It does not contaminate powders or primers.

SSN Vet
November 15, 2012, 01:25 PM
I give every tenth round a quick smear with Imperial wax....

and as noted... I pull a LOT less hard on the next down stroke.

after about ten rounds they get pretty stiff again.

yeah.. the press has all the mechanical advantage needed to get the job done... but for me at least, reloading is supposed to be fun.

gamestalker
November 15, 2012, 01:51 PM
I thought all 9mm brass, old or new, has a tapered wall? I've been loading 9mm for a good 30 yrs. or so, and so far as I can tell all the brass has a tapered wall. According to my Speer #10 the 9mm was made with the tapered wall to prevent bullet set back. And as far as resistence, I don't use any lube for any handgun cartridge and it goes through the resizer just fine, and I don't have problems with set back.

GS

wanderinwalker
November 15, 2012, 05:57 PM
I'm with SSN Vet, a little bit of Imperial Sizing wax every few cases and the 9mm reloading goes a lot smoother. Heck, I load on a progressive and don't even keep track of the few cases that get lubed. All gets loaded, bucketed and then fed through the Glocks.

1KPerDay
November 15, 2012, 06:56 PM
This is the only thing I use One Shot for (since I stuck a rifle case in the die first time out). Works great for light lube of pistol brass. I don't clean it off; just load and shoot.

I don't bother to lube .45 ACP or .38 Special; just 9mm and sometimes .40 if I remember.

1SOW
November 16, 2012, 01:23 AM
Try a "plant mister" spray bottle with denatured alcohol and a squirt or two of LEE's water soluble wax-based case lube.
Spread the cases out flat. One ultra-fine spritz/50 or so cases from 'above' the cases that are laying flat. I use a coffee can lid.

No spray into the cases, no clean-up, cheap, easy and really works well for 9mm brass.

Makes a big difference on handle pull on the little single stage I use to size-deprime 9mm .

Blue68f100
November 16, 2012, 09:11 AM
If your having problem sizing 9mm you have seriously something wrong. That or you have a press having problems, might lube it. I don't lube any straight wall brass. That's why I buy Carbide/ TiNi sizing die. I have found that Hornady's TiNi coated dies require the least amount of effort sizing when compared to my RCBS dies.

Certaindeaf
November 16, 2012, 09:30 AM
^
No one here has said that they have a problem and it's odd that you infer that things are wrong.
The genesis of the thread was the observation that 9mm brass takes more force to size than some others. It seems that then, others said yep, and that if you do the spritzing action, it greatly reduces the force required.

ReloaderFred
November 16, 2012, 11:06 AM
I've got a great idea! Let's all just do it the way we want in our own shops and not try to tell anyone else how THEY should do it. Sounds fair to me. My shop, my rules, and your shop, your rules.

What could be easier?

Hope this helps.

Fred

Certaindeaf
November 16, 2012, 11:18 AM
I've got a great idea! Let's all just do it the way we want in our own shops and not try to tell anyone else how THEY should do it. Sounds fair to me. My shop, my rules, and your shop, your rules.

What could be easier?

Hope this helps.

Fred
I don't think anyone is telling anyone to do anything. A simple matter of physics is being discussed.

highlander 5
November 16, 2012, 12:08 PM
Maybe it's me but I've never noticed any difference in the amount of force neeed to resize say 38 sp and 9 mm cases. Granted all my pistol/revolver dies are carbide so I don't lube cases,somthing tells me you may have a problemm with yyour press or your dies may be out of spec.

ReloaderFred
November 16, 2012, 12:31 PM
Certaindeaf,

My comment wasn't directed at you. It was directed to those who think it's one way, or no way.

highlander 5,

It's not a matter of how things work, it's a matter of age. As you get older, tasks become harder. That's one of the hard and fast rules of life.

I've been reloading since 1963, and none of the things I did back then when I started are near as easy to perform now, but my love of the sport is greater now than it was back then.

I'll take any short cut I can to enable me to continue reloading and shooting. If that means putting some lube on 9mm cases, then I'll do it. I load somewhere around 15,000 rounds per year, and my arms and shoulders aren't what they used to be, so I need to sometimes now do what I would have never considered doing 20, 30, 40 or 50 years ago. It works for me.

Just for information, there's nothing wrong with my dies (RCBS, Redding, Lyman, Dillon and even Lee), nor my presses, which consist of two Hollywood Seniors, an RCBS Rockchucker, a Hornady LNL and a Corbin CSP-1 for swaging bullets. They are all top of the line and work smoothly, but like I mentioned above, my body is wearing out, unlike my equipment...........

Hope this helps.

Fred

Walkalong
November 16, 2012, 03:52 PM
my body is wearing out, unlike my equipment...As is mine. Young folks will learn it one day. They don't know what it is like to hurt in the morning....just because.....

Shoulders can't take what they used to, elbows and wrists can't either, and it only gets worse according to my 87 year old mom. I shot a couple of cylinders of .44 Mag last weekend. I really enjoyed it, but if I had tried to shoot a box of 50 like I used to be able to do, it wouldn't have been fun.

I am not lubing cases for carbide dies, yet, but I see that day coming. :)

Certaindeaf
November 16, 2012, 05:48 PM
Fred, I hear you. I do heavy work with my hands and a ways back was powering through a pile of 9.. the next day my right hand was like a claw. I lube my cases now.. it just makes it so darn easy after a hard day's work.

Lost Sheep
November 16, 2012, 11:18 PM
(edited for brevity) They are all top of the line and work smoothly, but like I mentioned above, my body is wearing out, unlike my equipment...........
Fred
Are you sure about that?

How often do any of us disassemble the linkages on our presses, clean and lube them, especially the bushing/channel the ram rides in? A few years' worth of grit from spent primers can make a difference and I never gave it a thought until someone on another thread suggested putting it on a maintenance schedule.

Of course, putting Zerk fitting in our elbows is not something any of us are likely to do.

Lost Sheep

Art Eatman
November 17, 2012, 12:04 AM
Page 1 was mostly useful commentary. Page 2? Er, uh, not so much. :)

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