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kingcheese
November 15, 2012, 07:31 AM
Well, my 21 birthday is coming up so i have a question, I'm looking for a handgun under 800 bucks, and I'm looking for something 9mm, 40sw, or 45acp, I'm looking for a gun that fits my fairly beefy hands, that has cheaper mags, and is a fairly easy to use platform, I've looked at sigs, glocks, berretas, and kahrs, out of them all i like the feel and size of the kahrs the best, so any suggestions on other guns or which of thoose is comparable better then the rest?

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460Kodiak
November 15, 2012, 10:25 AM
You're all over the map man. You kind of need to go to a couple of LGS's and big chain stores and try a bunch on.

You've forgotten Smith and Wesson, Ruger, Kimber, Springfield, Stoegar, FN, Magnum Research, EAA, Walther, Steyer, Colt, Para, Kel-Tec, H&K, and CZ to name a few. And yes, there is also the Taurus company :barf:. Other's will add more to the list that you should look at.

Single action, double action, SA/DA capable, striker or hammer fired, and you really need to try out all those calibers to see what you like. Start with 9mm and 45, then try .40.

You have to narrow things down a bit or you will get no relavant advice here. Oh yeah, what is the purpose and use of the gun? Those are biggies.

Beefy hands, and a Kahr feels best? That puzzles me.

beatledog7
November 15, 2012, 10:46 AM
Shoot as many as you can using the oft-described natural point of aim techniques. Consider what task(s) you want this handgun to perform and how much you can afford to spend on ammo.

We can help you more effectively if you ask better questions.

targetshooter22
November 15, 2012, 02:37 PM
Yeah, go browse and handle some guns. I made the mistake of wanting a low cost one, and have always been a Ruger fan, so I bought a P95 without much investigation. That turned out to be a really bad fit for me, and ended up selling it at a loss, and buying a CZ which fit and pointed really well. Lesson learned: see what fits your hand best, and what site picture seems to "work" for you (in my base, the Glock was alright, the Sig made me feel like I was looking at a building, and the CZ was just right - YMMV).

If you have some friends with guns in the category you want, try to get them to take you shooting. If you have a LGS and range that would let you rent, definitely do that.

Also, think about the caliber and what you like to shoot, what you can afford to shoot (price them 45's before buying one!). It didn't say, but it sounds like a gun you plan to shoot at the range a lot, so might want to think about these things.

Good luck, and good shooting. For $800 you should be able to get a good gun, some extra mags, a holster, and hopefully a few hundred rounds of ammo.

kingcheese
November 15, 2012, 04:21 PM
I didn't forget sw, keltec, or para, i don't like them, i also prefer a heavier gun, ill hit up the shops and ask some more

Furncliff
November 15, 2012, 05:25 PM
I have big hands also. The 1911 fits the best and it could be considered heavy. I have two Rock Island Armory 1911's a .45acp and a 9mm. They are not expensive are a simple platform have good triggers and are accurate. It's a good company with good customer service.

Be aware that you can change grips on just about any pistol or revolver, to find the ones that fit you the best. I've had to change grips on all my handguns. Additionally, you can buy magazine extensions for most semi auto pistols that will keep your pinky finger from floating in space.

I put Pachmayer grips on this RIA 1911.
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http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8325/8120589224_cca9f6a733.jpg

shafter
November 15, 2012, 05:40 PM
You can hardly go wrong with a 1911. I'd go with a Springfield Armory but the new Rugers and Remingtons look pretty nice too. I already have a 1911 and I'm not really looking for another autoloader but if I was it would definitely be a Glock 19 or 23.

ATBackPackin
November 15, 2012, 05:55 PM
Which Kahr? I have a Kahr CW9 and it has been perfect.................

for concealed carry. If I was not going to carry it I would definitely go with a full sized.

Have you checked out Ruger's SR9 or SR9c? The SR9c if the ergos are good for you may be a good fit. Ten round mag for carry and 17 round mag with adapter for at home. IMO its curves makes it carry thinner than it really is. Really good value.

Another maker that has fantastic ergos is CZ. Plenty of people on here carry their compact guns and I have the full sized SP-01. Great gun but I would not want to have to conceal it.

These are just shots in the dark, pun intended. Other than that I would have to agree with some of others that we really need to know more about what you want to do with this gun. Most modern guns are going to be reliable and while some mags are more expensive than others, there generally isn't a huge difference that would make you not pick a gun merely on that issue alone.

Shawn

Teachu2
November 15, 2012, 06:01 PM
If you have a range that rents guns nearby, spend the bucks and time to shoot every gunthat interests you. Holding 'em and shooting 'em are sometimes very different things.

hentown
November 15, 2012, 07:56 PM
I own 1911s and Glocks, primarily. I'd suggest that you just go find a good deal on a Glock 17. Mags are inexpensive, and the manual-of-arms is about as simple as it gets. Every part can be replaced by the consumer with no special tools, inexpensively. Glock will fix a Glock forever, free, unless you blow it up shooting reloaded ammo, then they'll fix it free or offer you a killer deal on a replacement.

elrowe
November 15, 2012, 08:08 PM
More than feel... Make sure you can deal with the trigger cycle. Kahrs are great (I own and sometimes carry one), but have a longer and heavier trigger than any of the others you mention.

Long/Heavy trigger = more muzzle movement = lower accuracy and slower rate of fire

Another major factor is your intent. Plinking/Range? Hunting? Concealed Carry? Each has different impacts on selection.

Finally, "cheap magazines"... In firearms, anything cheap now means "replace later" if you're going to use them much. Better to buy quality once.

ATBackPackin
November 15, 2012, 08:26 PM
More than feel... Make sure you can deal with the trigger cycle. Kahrs are great (I own and sometimes carry one), but have a longer and heavier trigger than any of the others you mention.

Long/Heavy trigger = more muzzle movement = lower accuracy and slower rate of fire

Another major factor is your intent. Plinking/Range? Hunting? Concealed Carry? Each has different impacts on selection.

Finally, "cheap magazines"... In firearms, anything cheap now means "replace later" if you're going to use them much. Better to buy quality once.


I will give you that Kahr triggers are a little longer compared to most striker fired guns, but heavy? Mine is not nor have I ever heard another say theirs was. Mine is right around six pounds and accuracy has never been an issue with me. For the record I could care less if Mr. Cheese buys a Kahr, but heavy trigger it is not.

Shawn

kingcheese
November 15, 2012, 10:00 PM
The kahr that i was looking at was a cw9, I've shot a g17 and a g19, the 19 was what i liked size wise, the gun i get will go to the range frequently, and probably get used for combat classes, outside of that, i just want something solid, ammo price really ain't a concern , but if there was a modern gun chambered in 7.62x25, id be seriously interested

kingcheese
November 15, 2012, 10:02 PM
Also i care more about trigger resets and smooth triggers then i do a guns rapid fire ability

RetiredUSNChief
November 15, 2012, 10:47 PM
Heh! Like 460Kodiak said, you're all over the map!

Only you can answer this question. But, in my opinion, your answer should be based on the following (in this order):

1. What it's to be used for.
2. How well it fits YOUR hand.
3. What your personal tastes are.
4. What your budge is. (Which you've already established. However, keep in mind that the cost of shooting the pistol should be factored in here, if this is important to you.)


1. What it's to be used for:

Target shooting/plinking? Hunting? Personal protection? Collectors item?

You need to answer these questions for yourself. It's hard to beat a .22 for target/plinking...the cost of .22 ammunition is dirt cheap compared to centerfire. And there are quite a variety of pistols in this caliber, too.

If you're looking for something which might later be used for personal protection/concealed carry, there are a whole host of additional calibers to choose from and entire pages could be devoted just to this. Of the many pistols out there, the ones which would probably be the most affordable to shoot and still be considered excellent for personal protection would be the ones chambered for 9mm, .357 (because you can shoot .38 in .357 revolvers), and .45 acp. And this ammunition is found all over the place, too.

If it's mainly for personal protection, then this opens you up for other, more expensive kinds kinds of ammunition. But remember...LOTS of practice is still required to obtain and maintan a decent level of proficiency.

(Remember...this is just a guide. Certainly choose any reasonable caliber based on the intended use. There are lots of perfectly good calibers out there that I didn't list above.)


2. How well it fits YOUR hand.

This is not to be underestimated. If you're not comfortable with the pistol for whatever reason (too big or too small a grip, it doesn't "fit right" in your hand, it doesn't aim naturally for you when you extend your arm, or whatever), then you won't be comfortable shooting it, it won't be any fun to shoot, you will resent it, and in generall it will be that much harder for you to learn to poperly handle it and become proficient with it.


3. What your personal tastes are.

What I like isn't necessarily what you like. For instance, Glock makes outstanding firearms. Top notch in reliability and accuracy. However, I won't own one simply because I think they are ugly as sin. You, however, may like them.

Revolver, semiautomatic, single shot, black powder...not to mention all the different brands and designs out there. Find something that appeals to YOU.


4. What your budget is.

I know you've settled on a budget for the purchase of the pistol. But there are other after-purchase costs as well, arguably the biggest being the cost of ammunition. Don't forget that.

Consider a used pistol in good condition. You may be able to buy a more desirable pistol at an affordable used price which you would otherwise be out of your budget.


SO- Get out to some of your local gun shops and physically handle some of the pistols which interest you; See how they feel in your hand...and if any of the shops have some for rent at their range, rent some and see how they handle when you shoot them. See what they sell for, and if used pistols in good condition are available at a lower cost for you.


REMEMBER:

This doesn't have to be the best pistol at everything. (There's no such thing anyway, really.) It just has to be something that YOU are happy with owning, for the purposes you intend for it.

There will be plenty of opportunity in the future for you to expand on your pistol ownership, as you grow and learn more from your previous experiences. This need not be your ONLY pistol ever.

Good luck! (And please let us in on what you finally get!)

Lawdawg45
November 16, 2012, 08:12 AM
Well, my 21 birthday is coming up so i have a question, I'm looking for a handgun under 800 bucks, and I'm looking for something 9mm, 40sw, or 45acp, I'm looking for a gun that fits my fairly beefy hands, that has cheaper mags, and is a fairly easy to use platform, I've looked at sigs, glocks, berretas, and kahrs, out of them all i like the feel and size of the kahrs the best, so any suggestions on other guns or which of thoose is comparable better then the rest?

You won't find a more simple design than a Glock, easy to field strip and interchangeable magazines. I also have bear paws and I could get all 4 fingers around a G19 (their mid sized frame).;)

LD

mbopp
November 16, 2012, 10:31 AM
In a 1911 I'd have to look hard at the Springfield Range Officer, lots of features for the money and excellent customer service.
For some reason I don't like the way a Glock fits in my hand. I find that the S&W M&P, CZ75B, FNP, or Springfield XD feel more comfortable.
But yes, you'll need to narrow down your criteria a bit.

elrowe
November 16, 2012, 10:36 AM
I will give you that Kahr triggers are a little longer compared to most striker fired guns, but heavy? Mine is not nor have I ever heard another say theirs was. Mine is right around six pounds and accuracy has never been an issue with me. For the record I could care less if Mr. Cheese buys a Kahr, but heavy trigger it is not.

Shawn
I should have qualified "heavy" better - that is not a comparison to other striker-fired guns, but to the 1911 that I typically carry and train with. Admittedly, it's a bit of an apples to walruses comparison, but applies to the Sigs and Berettas that the OP's mentions that are DA/SA also - at least after the first shot from them.

ATBackPackin
November 16, 2012, 10:36 AM
The Kahr CW9 has a very smooth trigger, but short reset it has not. If that is important I would rule Kahr out because as far as I know they all have a long reset.

You mentioned Beretta, did you look at the M9 or 92? The are solid, reliable, with smooth trigger and short reset.

kingcheese
November 16, 2012, 12:36 PM
I did look at the m9 and 92, I'm interested in concealed carry, and home defense, and i don't want anything with a mag less then 12 rounds

460Kodiak
November 16, 2012, 03:00 PM
I'm a fan of the FNX line of pistols. The FNX-9 holds something like 18 rounds with one in the chamber and is surprisingly compact. I think it would carry fairly easily. With the FNS line coming out, you may be able to pick up a FNX for a decent price. There really are a lot to choose from.

Corpral_Agarn
November 16, 2012, 05:49 PM
Me personally, I went with a Sig p226 in .40
If i lived where you do, i might have gotten it in 9mm for the extra mag capacity but for CA I can only have 10 anyway so I thought, what the hay. I got the ST and should have got the standard alloy frame. The ST weighs 42 ounces unloaded but its all i have, so it gets carried every day.
I like XD's, M&P's, CZ's and 1911's but the Sig just seemed fit me best (point-ability, controls, accuracy, reliability, etc). I also liked the idea of no safety and a 10lb first shot pull with the 4lb after. It just seems really safe until its "business time." You should be able to find one in your price range. 229's are pretty cool too and a little smaller.
Mostly what you will hear is advice to try a bunch of them to see what fits you better.
If this is your first handgun i might recommend a revolver. A lot of people over look them!

budman46
November 20, 2012, 04:46 PM
no one's first handgun should be anything over .22rf cal. they don't intimidate, cost lots to shoot, or cost too much to buy; my pick would be a ruger 22/45 5.5" bull bbl with adj. sts. for about $260 or so.

22's teach us all we need to know about shooting as far as technique is involved; the rest is recoil management.

after that, i'd look to a poly-framed 9mm...xd(m), m&p, ruger sr9, etc. least expensive to shoot, effective caliber, good values, but all less important than a good shooting beginning.

kingcheese
November 20, 2012, 09:32 PM
Ok, I'm fairly new to handguns, i own and shoot 22and 7.62x38r revolvers, I'm NOT interested in ruger, keltec, turas, or smith and wesson, i held a Sig, i think it was a 226, been a couple months since, and i didn't like it, tried my hands on a glock 26, it feels a little better to me, felt up a stoger, and a kahr, to me, i like the kahr the best with the glock in second, so between the two which is easier to get parts for?

460Kodiak
November 21, 2012, 10:42 AM
no one's first handgun should be anything over .22rf cal.

That is your opinion only, and I totally disagree with you. My first handgun was a .357. My second was a S&W 460 magnum. The first handgun I ever fired was a Ruger SR in .44 magnum.

It's not that big of a deal. I don't understand why people make this assertion all the time. .22 is a good practice round, but there is no reason whatsoever that a person has to start with a .22.

It's like saying a person needs to start out driving a smart car before they buy a four door. It makes no sense. Any way you slice it, sight picture is slight picture, and if anything starting out with a bigger caliber makes you appreciate the low recoil and cheap cost of a .22 all the more. I say look at the intended purpose, and buy a gun appropriate to fill that role. Practice with it, know it, become proficient with it, and then pick up a .22 when you need cheaper practice, and you have aquired the funds.

You are entitled to your opinion the same as I, so believe what you like, but I just get miffed when people make this statement like it is some fact that can't be argued at all.

i like the kahr the best with the glock in second, so between the two which is easier to get parts for?

If you like the Kahr the best, then go for it man. Between the two, I'd think the Glock would be easier to get parts for, but I doubt it will be too hard with the Kahr either. I could be wrong on that though. With a handgun, the way it fits in your hand is paramount.

kingcheese
November 21, 2012, 05:58 PM
And out of curiosity, what do you guys know about the stoeger cougar? As far as reliability and performance go?

460Kodiak
November 21, 2012, 07:43 PM
I owned one in .40 S&W. I sold it though, because I didn't like how snappy that cartridge felt. The gun itself was great for the price. It was very accurate, the ergos were great, and I would buy another one in 9mm or .45 in a heartbeat.

I will admit thought, the finish is not the hardest, and I wasn't real impressed with how it was wearing. But, it was a carry gun, and that will cause the finish to wear faster. For home defense or range use, it is a good value for the price you pay. I'd also recommend it for a lower cost car or boat gun.

I don't know that I would recommend it as "the last carry gun you'll ever buy" or anything. I just picked up a Springfield XDs for that role. Short mag for city, and longer mag for hiking, or Wal-mart. I also prefer stainless steel for carry. JMO.

The Stoeger is a good gun though, and if someone told me they were planning to buy one, my response would be "Cool. Those guns are a good value and good shooters." Take it as you like.

hentown
November 21, 2012, 07:56 PM
The Glock is easier to get parts for, and they're inexpensive, and you can install them yourself with no special tools or training. My daughter's first handgun was a G26. She loves it. She had shot my .22lr Woodsman a few times, before I bought her the G26. However, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a G19 or G26 o anybody as a first handgun.

About a year ago, I gave some basic firearms instruction to the ex-wife of a well-known major-league baseball player. She's not a really large person, had not fired anything but a .22 pistol when she was a child...nothing since. I started her out with a few mags through my Colt Woodsman. We rapidly moved on to my G17 and G26. She bought a G26 the next week and loves it.

budman46
November 23, 2012, 09:34 AM
kingcheese,

it sounded like you had no handgun experience at all; that's why i recommended a .22.

you might check springfield's xd(m). lots of gun for the money, 9mm ammo is relatively cheap, rugged and accurate.

kodiak,
.22's let you learn you how to shoot for less than $0.04 a round, wolf's steel-case 9mm is $0.20 a shot. after learning to shoot with a .22rf, recoil management is the only thing you need to add.

personally, i've been reloading for more than 40 years, even casting my own bullets, so i can shoot big nasties for little $$$; i prefer revolvers because the brass doesn't require searching, but i still love my .22s.

kingcheese
November 23, 2012, 12:32 PM
I also reload, Im just new to the cc world

Black Knight
November 23, 2012, 06:28 PM
You are "new" to handguns right? You should go to as many gunshops and ranges as you are able and try every thing they have in stock. You can also check out the guns your friends have. Don't get stuck on just one type or caliber. This will limit you severely. There are many good double action revolvers out there that are quite concealable and more than up to the challenge of protecting and defending its owner. At work I must carry the issued semi-auto pistol but off duty I usually carry a 357 Magnum revolver. Also a 357 Magnum revolver gives you more bang for the buck; it will also chamber and fire the 38 Special safely. Two guns for the price of one. Check them out before you decide they are not for you.

budman46
November 24, 2012, 01:20 PM
black knight said lots...

a small frame .357 gives you a lot of flexibility...from .38 wadcutters to full-house .357's in a concealable package that is simplicity itself.

one i loved was a taurus 605, ss, 2.5" ss .357.

kingcheese
November 25, 2012, 12:18 PM
Yeah, now I'm looking at a micro eagle(380acp) a g26, a cougar(stoeger make), and a mini 22mag revolver, all of witch where heavily recomended by,the owners of the 4 shops i hit up, but the mini revolver is what I'm going to look hard at, after asking about them and 3 guys pulled there's out and set them on the counter at the shop, it speaks volumes to me

460Kodiak
November 25, 2012, 01:28 PM
A ruger SP-101 or a Smith J frame is are always good options too. .357 is a great all around carry cartridge. .327 could be fun too.

You know, I don't like to sound like a groupie, but I just picked up a Springfield XDs and I have shot it. As far as balancing ease of concealment, carry ability, and fire power, it is better than anything else I've seen in .45 acp. If you prefer 9mm, the S&W Shield is supposed to be great too.

I've been carrying for about 5 years, and I've come to realize just how important carry comfort is. Having the right gun for that job is essential. If you haven't looked at those two options, I'd highly recommend that you do and give them some consideration.

I hope your narrowing things down a bit.

I always say start with purpose, then mechanics, and then form. What do I need this for? What type do I want to perform that task? What brand and build type do I prefer.

Need, Want , Preference is a good order for narrowing things down.

baghdaddy202003
November 25, 2012, 05:46 PM
I prefer the XD 9mm myself. I think the grip angle is more in line with other popular platforms (this makes it easier to shoot many pistols with little difference felt). I think the gun operates flawlessly and is very reliable. Some would steer you to the Glock, which is fine. I dont like the grip angle on it at all! It does make it easier for a newbie to pick it up and get on target easy. The aggressiveness of the angle makes you push and pull which helps with recoil. But when you pick up another pistol and fire it you will shoot low every time.

golden
November 26, 2012, 12:36 AM
Cheese,

I have owned and shot some of the guns you mentioned.

1. The KAHR CW9 was a very well made gun, but the light weight and slim grip made it something I had never experienced before. A 9m.m. that kicked too hard. It was accurate and reliable, but I found it so unpleasant to shoot, I sold it.

2. The BERETTA Cougar, now made by STOEGER (which is owned by BERETTA) was a good shooter and very reliable. My only complaint was that the police trade in gun I bought had a worn out magazine and the the grip was to long. The grip is more like the BROWNING Hi Power, than the BERETTA 92. It also holds 15 rounds. I thought that the more compact L model made more sense, as it was easier to conceal, yet still held 13 rounds. Now STOEGER has re introduced an L model in 9m.m. A shooting buddy who really likes the Cougar design has one in .40 S&W and another in .45ACP. He love them and will be picking up a 9m.m. L model when he finds one.

3. The SIG 226 is what I carried for about a year when I worked for the I&NS. It shot better than my GLOCK 19, but was noticeably heavier. The 226 is accurate, super reliable and very well made, but the grip is a bit chunky like most double stack guns.
I fell in love with the old SIG 225 because it has a single stack magazine that held only 8 rounds, but fit my hand perfectly. It has proven to be one of the most accurate handguns I own.
My wife liked it so much, she took it as her house gun. One word of warning on the SIG 225, older, police trade in models often will not feed hollow point ammo. I got around this by using COR BON Powerball for carry and full metal jacket ammo for practice.

4. Another gun that I bought and has been a complete winner for me is the WALTHER P99 AS. This is the P99 with the traditional double/single action trigger. I have also shot the P99 QA with the GLOCK like trigger and did not like it nearly as much.
The strong points are accuracy, fantastic double action trigger with a SIG like transition to single action after the first shot. The trigger is so good, I would be happy with a double action only version.
The WALTHER was the first pistol to offer interchangeable back straps on the grip. I found the medium size fit me so well, it made my GLOCK 19 feel club like and I really liked the GLOCK.

5. I have also owned and shot the SPRINGFIELD ARMORY XD. It is a fine pistol that has earned an excellent reputation. I have found it to be easy to shoot, reliable and accurate. If you like the GLOCK style of trigger, it offers a better shaped grip and the advantage of a grip safety that makes it even safer than a GLOCK. It also comes with some useful accessories in the box.

Just my experiences,

Jim

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