Glock Model 21


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Pierce
November 15, 2012, 08:58 PM
Once long ago I read that the Glock for whatever reason shouldn't be shot with cast i.c LSWC that it wasn't rifled to shoot it. Is there anything about this that you can comment on?
I have a friend who wants to buy one and he likes to cast and reload. Is there a barrel that can be used in the Glock for this type of ammo?

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p2000sk
November 15, 2012, 09:31 PM
http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=960
The standard groove and land rifling make this an excellent choice for those who wish to shoot lead, plated or jacketed bullets.
This is an aftermarket barrel with rifling different than stock. Stock Glock barrels may be
Genuine OEM Glock replacement barrel.
9/40/357/10 barrels are hexagonal profile with right hand twist
45ACP & 45 GAP are octagonal profile with right hand twist
Part number 15 on the Glock Schematic.

chris in va
November 15, 2012, 09:47 PM
I put over a thousand of my wheelweight LRN through my G21 with zero leading. As a matter of fact it had less residue than my standard rifled CZ.

The 21's barrel is more like a smooth bore shotgun with what I call 'speedbumps' thrown in. It doesn't have the leading-promoting stopsign style poly barrel like on my Kahr.

jeepnik
November 15, 2012, 09:57 PM
This myth about Glock barrels pops up from time to time. Supposedly, if you shoot cast bullets in the polygonal rifling it will become fouled with lead leading to dangerous overpressure and then a Kaboom.

First, any barrel could become lead fouled if you use too soft a lead for casting or run the bullets at higher than recommended velocities. Then again, you can foul a barrel with jacket material (usually a copper alloy).

Here's the secret. Use a hard enough alloy for you cast bullets. Don't push the velocities above recommended ranges. And here's the biggie, clean the darned thing.

That's right clean it. You see if you clean it properly, if leading or copper fouling does occur you'll know about it. Then you take the appropriate steps to remove the fouling.

Now it does say right there in the Glock manual not to use reloaded (and many reloaders do use cast bullets) ammo. Just like it says in the manuals of every other firearms manufacturer. It's simply a bit of lawyer speak to protect the manufacturer from idiots that don't follow proper reloading procedures (in this case usually folks who insist they can load a cartridge hotter than the reloading manuals recommend).

Pierce
November 15, 2012, 10:18 PM
Thanks for the detailed feedback. Good stuff

Inebriated
November 16, 2012, 12:27 AM
While jeepnik is right, I still say just get a Lone Wolf barrel and never have to think about it.

flyskater
November 16, 2012, 01:45 AM
I've prob fed 500 rounds pf wheel weights through my G29 and I see no fouling. And that's with a full power 10mm going faster than a 45

plateshooter
November 16, 2012, 07:08 AM
I don't get any more leading in my OEM G21 barrel than I do in my aftermarket barrels. It seems to me that the Glock barrel is easier to "de-lead" as the rifling has no sharp corners. For the minimal leading I do get from time to time, a couple of passes with a bronze brush, or at most a pass or two with a Chore Boy wrapped brush takes care of it. I shoot mostly my home cast reloads through my G21 and find it accurate and reliable.

jeepnik
November 16, 2012, 07:18 PM
Hey guys, we keep this up and we will debunk the kaboom theory of leading.

I personally think those kabooms that have occurred are more likely due to folks trying to load things hotter than the manuals suggest.

hentown
November 17, 2012, 08:13 AM
On-the-other-hand, a guy who's a forensic engineer, whatever that is, did a detailed analysis of firing lead through Glock barrels and documented the lead build-up in the leade and that pressures did increase substantially. I can't remember if he experimented with various hardnesses of lead and higher velocities.

ku4hx
November 17, 2012, 09:09 AM
On-the-other-hand, a guy who's a forensic engineer, whatever that is, did a detailed analysis of firing lead through Glock barrels and documented the lead build-up in the leade and that pressures did increase substantially. I can't remember if he experimented with various hardnesses of lead and higher velocities.
I'm aware of the "study" you're referring to. However, he never had his findings published in any journal I could find and he never had his results duplicated by any reputable underwriting lab I could find. It's all well and good to do a bunch of tests, but if your results can't be independently duplicated, verified and validated they're worthless. HOWEVER, if that independent verification and validation has occurred, I'll be the first to praise it ... just show me the light.

I've been casting since 1970 and I've cast conservatively speaking 10,000 boolits per year for that period. A large portion of those have passed through Glock OEM barrels beginning in 1991 with a model 20. But we need to understand, I cast a specific alloy of my design that contains Lead, Tin and Antimony. I don't shoot pure lead except in black powder guns.

I do own after market Glock barrels but they were bought for reasons not associated with cast boolits. For example, my 1991 vintage G20 and 1993 vintage G23 have the original Glock barrels with rather generous "unsupported areas". My G19 barrel and G19 magazines sleeves makes my G26 essentially another G19. There are other reasons.

If someone is uncomfortable with shooting "lead" bullets in Glock OEM barrels, then they should act accordingly.

hentown
November 17, 2012, 09:31 AM
Yep, I made a point of posting that I didn't know if the guy used lead of different hardness, etc. I don't shoot lead, anyhow, but just remembered that study the guy did. He was a member of a forum I was on.

jeepnik
November 17, 2012, 11:16 AM
There have been kabooms reported with lone wolf barrels, too. Though likely from an over charged reload, it proves that any barrel can experience kabooms if careful attention isn't paid to the details when using firearms.

jeepnik
November 17, 2012, 11:24 AM
I'm aware of the "study" you're referring to. However, he never had his findings published in any journal I could find and he never had his results duplicated by any reputable underwriting lab I could find. It's all well and good to do a bunch of tests, but if your results can't be independently duplicated, verified and validated they're worthless. HOWEVER, if that independent verification and validation has occurred, I'll be the first to praise it ... just show me the light.

I've been casting since 1970 and I've cast conservatively speaking 10,000 boolits per year for that period. A large portion of those have passed through Glock OEM barrels beginning in 1991 with a model 20. But we need to understand, I cast a specific alloy of my design that contains Lead, Tin and Antimony. I don't shoot pure lead except in black powder guns.

I do own after market Glock barrels but they were bought for reasons not associated with cast boolits. For example, my 1991 vintage G20 and 1993 vintage G23 have the original Glock barrels with rather generous "unsupported areas". My G19 barrel and G19 magazines sleeves makes my G26 essentially another G19. There are other reasons.

If someone is uncomfortable with shooting "lead" bullets in Glock OEM barrels, then they should act accordingly.
Also, he didn't take any steps to remove and leading that occured. In other words, HE DIDN'T CLEAN THE DARNED THING. In the world of destructive testing the entire idea is to run something until it fails, which is what he did. It's likely that had he cleaned it to remove leading that occured, like most responsible firearms owners do, he'd have worn the firearm out long before he experienced any significant pressure increases.

hentown
November 19, 2012, 08:00 AM
Yeah, he didn't clean the barrels. The point of the test, I suppose, was to see how many rounds could be fired before leading raised the pressure dangerously.

mljdeckard
November 19, 2012, 08:33 AM
I would worry less with a .45 than with other cartridges, it is relatively low pressure and velocity.

Sapper771
November 19, 2012, 12:33 PM
I have fired several hundred hard cast lead bullets through a G21 and a G36 without any issues. I stayed within load data and checked the barrel regularly.

GLOOB
November 19, 2012, 04:02 PM
Glock 21 is the exception. My G21 barrel works really well with cast. IME, just as good or maybe even better than conventional rifling. Very, very little fouling.

In addition to the pressure/velocity difference, there are two notable physical differences between my 9mm Glock barrels and my G21 barrel. My Glock 9mm barrels have an unusually long leade/freebore. And the mouth end of the chamber is really loose. These two features allow a significant amount of gas to blow by the bullet. (My LW 9mm barrel is cut the same way, FTR, and it fouls worse than my stock G21 barrel.)

The leade on my G21 barrel is shorter. And the chamber is tight at the mouth. (I need to crimp even jacketed bullets to get them to fit the chamber) So the jump to the rifling is shorter, and the case mouth is more effectively sealing gases from escaping until the heel of the bullet leaves the case mouth. At this point, the bullet is well into the bore, so blow-by is minimized.

shouldn't be shot with cast i.c LSWC
OTOH, he's right about this part. Semi wadcutters don't cycle in a G21. The rim of the ejecting case hits the shoulder of the next round in the mag. It's a no-go right from the start.

45_auto
November 19, 2012, 04:33 PM
Semi wadcutters don't cycle in a G21.

Never heard that before. I just bought 5,000 200g LSWC. Been shooting 230g LRN for the past 40 years. Won't get a chance to load any till after Thanksgiving, but luckily if they won't work in the Glock than I've got plenty of 1911's to run them through!

GLOOB
November 19, 2012, 04:56 PM
Keep an eye out when you test them. It can't be good for the extractor when the case catches and gets ripped out. If your Glock starts acting weird, you will want to check your extractor and extractor spring. I had numerous jams per mag. But I only shot a mag or two before I wised up and figured out what was going on. Luckily, my shooting buddy brought a 1911, and all was good.

hentown
November 20, 2012, 08:37 AM
I've never shot swc through my G21, but have heard of G30's having a problem with them. Never heard that a G21 did.

otasan56
November 20, 2012, 09:47 AM
I am going to get a G21 soon, and I will try some hard-cast lead bullets in it for sure. ;)

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