Which is the biggest "recruitment" to our ranks?


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Skribs
November 16, 2012, 05:37 PM
I'm just curious as to what people think is the biggest reason people come over to the gun-owner "dark side". A lot of the rhetoric on this site is to take someone shooting and the next time you go somewhere with that person it will be to the gun store to help them pick out their first purchase. However, in the news, it's often people who see news stories and think "I need to protect myself from that" or a victim who doesn't want to be victimized again.

So which do you think is the biggest conversion factor: the fun of a day at the range, or the healthy fear or a forcible felony and desire to protect oneself?

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jacob2745
November 16, 2012, 05:43 PM
I would say that most of us grew up shooting, but i think the majority of "new members" probably buy a gun for sd and realize how much fun it can be. Then comes the addiction

mgmorden
November 16, 2012, 05:57 PM
What I see a lot of outside of the people that grew up with it is guys that play video games. They play Call of Duty or Medal of Honor or what-not and decide that they'd like to have a real gun, so they go out and get one and take it to the range.

I actually recently ran into this with a coworker. He's never owned or even fired a real gun, but he knows I shoot and was asking about going the range. He actually had a decent knowledge of different guns and ammo (though somewhat off in some areas like power difference between different cartridges). He'd gleaned everything off of playing video games.

Nothing really wrong with that, and anything that drives interest and ownership is good.

Halal Pork
November 16, 2012, 06:00 PM
Posts 2 and 3 pretty well cover it. The only group I might add (and it's certainly not the biggest) would be people who grew familiar with firearms in the military and then get into it on their own after they're discharged.

CoRoMo
November 16, 2012, 06:02 PM
Elections certainly play a role. Right or wrong, for better or for worse, and whether it's the biggest 'recruitment factor', I don't know. It might actually create more 1st-time gun owners in a short period of time than news/tragedies do.

Earlier today I met with a lady who wants to start buying guns because of the outcome of the election. I think that getting a carry permit and becoming a gun owner was something that was 'always on the to-do list', but now that the election went the way it did, her and her husband have moved that task all the way up to 'next' on the list of priorities.

I met with her to show her my wife's pair of LCRs (.38/.22). She had asked me a few days ago to recommend a pair of handguns; one that she could carry and the other for range practice.

Even though these folks are jumping into the ranks of gun owners under these circumstances, I'm glad she reached out to find some guidance. They had just bought an AR15 and were about to go out and buy a handful of Glocks when she happen to ask me my opinion.

I know another fellow who moved here from Illinois and it was like a whale breaching the surface; he was free at last. He got a carry permit and bought all kinds of anything and everything. He went hog-wild for a period there.

radiotom
November 16, 2012, 06:15 PM
Self defense. Now an addiction.

aarondhgraham
November 16, 2012, 06:24 PM
The fun day at the range generates shooters who will hopefully buy a handgun and keep going to the range to have fun and develop skills.

The person who buys a handgun because they read about bad stuff happening will probably never practice enough to learn to use it properly. Not all of them but I would speculate the percentage to be high.

That's why I recruit as many young people as I can entice to go shooting with me. So far my record over the past 4-6 years is not bad at all.

I know for certain that 2 young ladies now own handguns, can shoot them reasonably well, and have obtained their carry permits.

At least 6-8 young men and women have gone to the range with me and keep asking to go again. Financial woes of being college kids keep most of them from buying a gun and or range membership.

You know, if each and every one of us generated just one new shooter a year,,,
We would double our ranks in that one short year.

One young man I introduced took to it so much that for his graduation I gifted him with a Ruger 22/45 that I had gathering dust in my safe.

I would bet that most of us have at least one handgun we could live without.

I'm single with a low mortgage and a professional salary,,,
I can afford to splurge on a gift every now and then.

In May next year there will be two very happy college graduates.

The young woman who liked shooting my S&W Model 18,,,
He will receive a Charter Arms Pathfinder.

The young man who liked semi's,,,
He will receive a Bersa Thunder 22 or Ruger SR-22.

Doing my part in recruiting new shooters,,,
One young person at a time.

Aarond

.

pseudonymity
November 16, 2012, 06:28 PM
I was at an Appleseed earlier this year, and there was a woman shooting next to me on a bench. She was probably in her mid sixties in age and by her actions a novice shooter. During lunch she sat with my group (my son and his friend) and she explained that she had heard some conservative type talk show host mention that now would be a good time to buy a firearm, so she did. The Appleseed was her first time actually firing it, and she did a pretty decent job of it for the most part. She had planned on attending with some friends, but they had been called away with some type of family emergency just that morning so she attended anyway. I see quite a few novice shooters at the range, but that was the first time I saw a novice that was a combination of female, 50+ and shooting alone. An encouraging sign IMO, and of course as typical for AS shoots in this area, the instructors did a fine job of keeping her safe but challenged.

I stop by the LGS once or twice a week just to browse, and I would say 1 out of 4 trips during busy hours I see a woman buying a gun, and it is typically a rimfire rifle or handgun. I see a lot of people in the LGS, there are lots of 30-something men looking at bolts in 30-06 or pump shotguns, but the buying seems to be done mostly by 20-30s males buying AR or AK platforms or 20-50s females buying handguns or rimfire rifles.

These are just local observations, so they do not mean much, but it seems that most of the purchasing I see being done is probably geared towards plinking/fun and personal defense based on the hardware that is selling. Overall I think this is good thing, not because traditional hunting or organized target shooting is bad in any way - but people buying guns for things other than "sporting purposes" helps spread the message to the public that shooting is a legitimate recreational activity.

nosmr2
November 16, 2012, 11:29 PM
A fun day at a nice range works for me.

gym
November 16, 2012, 11:53 PM
Home defense and self defense. Many think something has to eventually happen . They may not be sure what it is, but feel once it happens it will be too late to get a gun and ammo.
There could easily be a shut down of the govt if they don't get spending under control

akodo
November 17, 2012, 10:37 AM
additionally, a lot of people have their interest in firearms sparked by video games. Note this isn't the same people who think they are experts on real-world firearms BECAUSE of video games, but games that feature guns are a big factor in young males buying their first gun.

r1derbike
November 17, 2012, 11:00 AM
Our retirement community has been rocked pathetically by home invasions/break-ins from members of our degenerate subculture. Elderly people live here. They are buying weapons to try to stem the onslaught. Police have admitted huge problems in the area on newscasts, and have been quick to point-out that home invaders will be met with armed citizens, fully justified in their use of lethal force, if they feel their lives threatened. I'm hoping the new owners get some training with their new peacekeepers.

So, the crime wave here, which will deepen during the next year of economic upheaval, is at least going to be met with some resistance by homeowners. A few weeks ago, a lady appeared at the front door, and she offered to clean the carpet for free, as a market survey firm would pay her and her crew. My wife handled the case-out beautifully, but I was there with means to an end, if it went south quickly.

The knock-on-the-door crime element is alive and well, here.

ATBackPackin
November 17, 2012, 11:52 AM
I would venture to say that there are two reasons. One is that people have realized that the police for the most part cannot protect us, but mostly investigate crimes after they happen. Secondly is that owning and shooting guns has become more socially acceptable.

Shawn

beatledog7
November 17, 2012, 11:58 AM
It's SD first, shooting sports a distant second. The unfortunate part is that so many people come to the realization that they need to be able to defend themselves only after they or someone they know couldn't.

The things we learn when we're young stick with us. All children should learn firearm safety, defensive mindset, and defensive shooting kills. It should be as natural as riding a bike (but then, I've discovered that many children these days never learn to ride a bike because their parents don't want them out on the streets). If from about middle school age they were taught how to be responsible with guns (in place of some of the useless nonsense they're subjected to now), they would quite likely arm up when they're old enough, and that fact alone would serve as a deterrent to the BGs out there who currently feel confident that most of their victims are defenseless.

I've taught my daughter. She can't carry yet, but I'm sure she will when she's old enough for her CHP. Have you all taught your children?

ExTank
November 17, 2012, 12:07 PM
Within the past 5-8 years, I think the large number of vets returning from either The Rockpile or The Sandbox have boosted our numbers, especially those from traditionally gun-unfriendly regions of the country.

Imagine carrying an M9/M4/M16 around for a year+ on a deployment; then imagine getting out of the military, going "home" (wherever that is), and then being told you can't have a Beretta or Taurus, or a semi-auto version of the rifle you carried and/or used in service to your country.

On a separate note, I find interesting some of the comments up-thread about video gamers swelling our ranks, as they get off the couch and go out and get some of the guns they've "played with" in-game.

I'd never considered them as a source of new-gun ownership before, and am wondering how many game-box warriors make that kind of move.

Interesting to consider.

ExTank
November 17, 2012, 12:37 PM
ETA: duplicate post. DOH!

smalls
November 17, 2012, 03:21 PM
I'd never considered them as a source of new-gun ownership before, and am wondering how many game-box warriors make that kind of move.

Tons. I'm still relatively young, and I know plenty of people from high school who I'd never think of as gun owners, but were huge gamers. They started off with air soft and paintball, then moved up to AR's and what not. And most of these people I know don't think of guns as "tools". They're just plinking toys. Not to say they're dangerous with them, but a day at the range is just something fun to do, no different than the bowling alley or shopping mall to them.

Tamren
November 17, 2012, 03:31 PM
My Dad is gun neutral and my mom used to be a huge anti, so I never got a chance to go shooting until I was in my 20's.

Video games are what originally sparked my interest. In my case it wasn't Call of Duty, but the original Rainbow Six. I was curious about how the designers decided how to assign stats to all the different guns and started researching real life information on my own.

A few years later I met and became good friends with a regular shooter, and he agreed to take me out shooting. The addiction and career weren't far off from there :p

HDCamel
November 17, 2012, 04:10 PM
What I see a lot of outside of the people that grew up with it is guys that play video games. They play Call of Duty or Medal of Honor or what-not and decide that they'd like to have a real gun, so they go out and get one and take it to the range.

I actually recently ran into this with a coworker. He's never owned or even fired a real gun, but he knows I shoot and was asking about going the range. He actually had a decent knowledge of different guns and ammo (though somewhat off in some areas like power difference between different cartridges). He'd gleaned everything off of playing video games.

Nothing really wrong with that, and anything that drives interest and ownership is good.
I've been gaming for over 20 years now (since I was old enough to pick up a controller). I don't know if I would call it the "biggest recruiter", but it is becoming a bigger recruiter all the time.

Incidentally, for the most recent Medal of Honor game (MoH: Warfighter) Electronic Arts and Danger Close Studios actually went out of their way to get the licensing for the real brand names for the guns featured in-game. Daniel Defense, LaRue Tactical, McMillan, H&K and others are all featured. Larry Vickers even put together a custom 1911 for the game.

It's no surprise really. Gaming has really come into its own in the last 10 years or so, and it's getting more prevalent all the time. It's only natural that companies would want to use them to plug their product, especially since the "tactical" market really seems to appeal to younger, adult males with an overabundance of time and money, which is the same audience that many game companies market to.

It's just a newer type of pop culture to influence what people buy like getting an SAA because you watch westerns or a S&W Model 29 because of Dirty Harry.

catinthebat
November 17, 2012, 04:38 PM
I was shooting since I was 7.

Rob0321
November 17, 2012, 04:40 PM
Education and us gunfolk being tolerant enough to take the non-gunfolk shooting to show them what they are missing.

Ehtereon11B
November 17, 2012, 04:57 PM
I wasn't lucky enough to grow up around firearms. My parents were and still are adamant anti-gun people who do not see any reason for them. Played lots of shooter games as a kid and still do, albeit not as much. Picked up my first weapon at 17 in military school and haven't stopped since.

Video games are probably the biggest help and hindrance to firearm popularity. Kids play games and get an interest. Usually for the wrong reasons of slaughtering an entire Russian base in the Arctic circle or Japanese historical island battle. Many games do not have realistic portrayals of the weapons so when they do get hold one for the first time, they have loads of bad habits.

Nushif
November 17, 2012, 05:42 PM
I'd say games is a big one and after that a healthy bit of plinking.

While I appreciate someone buying the proverbial .38 and stuffing it in a sock drawer I really don't think that's politically useful or socially a big change. It's perfectly possible for someone to remain a staunch Anti while "owning a gun."
It's a lot harder to remain anti when you regularly have fun with a gun, aka plinking.

krupparms
November 17, 2012, 09:33 PM
Don't forget the paint ball shooter's &the softair shooter's! They are also getting into the real thing after a few games in the woods. Alot of fun &some of their stuff looks real & is pretty realistic.

krupparms
November 17, 2012, 09:38 PM
Sorry small not fast on cellphone

OcelotZ3
November 17, 2012, 10:19 PM
I was disposing of some after my father died (to produce income for my mom), but then got interested and kept a few. It ballooned from there.

PaisteMage
November 17, 2012, 10:25 PM
I always wanted to know how to shoot. I didn't have the luxury of growing up with some family member who shot. I always figured it would be good to know how to shoot in the case of needing to hunt for survival, in order to defend my own life or loved ones in a defensive scenario, and because I felt that firearms are something that all Americans should at least have a good knowledge of.

I shot a few times. A friend took me to the range and I shot a Mosin, his Ruger Sr9C, and a shotgun. I bought a defensive pistol not too long later, and the SR22 pistol for working on fundamentals as well, a few months after going to the range with him a handful of times.

Good thread.

22-rimfire
November 17, 2012, 11:10 PM
Spending too much time on the gun forums. :D That pretty much reinforces the "addiction". Buying generally starts because you had fun shooting a friends gun, self defense, or hunting.

JTHunter
November 17, 2012, 11:42 PM
Things that go "BANG!" have always intrigued me, from fireworks to firearms. I've made my own blackpowder former and reloads for the latter.
Several years ago, my mother (in her early 70's then) decided that she needed something where she lived out in the boonies. Her husband wouldn't be of much help (due to age) and she hadn't handled a gun for over 40 years.
She now has a .38 Sp. and a .22 rifle that she got from a friend of mine whose renter died and left it. The friend took the single-shot shotgun for himself for "HD" purposes.
The friend doesn't shoot much as money is too tight for him but mother is popping the muskrats, turtles, and snakes in her lake. She had me put a cheap red-dot holosight on the rifle as she doesn't need glasses for distance (yet). She's taking 50 yd. shots at these varmits with plain LRN .22 ammo and doing a good job at keeping the population in check.
Her father had tried to get his "tom-boy" daughter to learn to shoot as a kid, to no avail. He's probably doing cartwheels in Heaven now that she's a shooter herself. :D

SaxonPig
November 18, 2012, 11:54 AM
An old friend was a clerk in a gun store in Los Angeles in 1966. When the race riots started in Watts he said every white liberal who had denounced gun ownership was lined up to buy whatever guns they could get. He said six to twelve months later they came back in to sell the guns back to the store.

Fear is the great motivator with gun sales. Fear of being attacked, fear of not be able to buy later on.

gym
November 18, 2012, 07:56 PM
Fear is the most powerfull emotion period. That is the reason people who were previouslly not interested in guns become interested. After Money, and Power, comes Fear, it trumps all of the other emotions, as there is no cure for it. You can't buy it, or order it to go away. It will crush the most powerfull of men, and if allowed can cause men to do things that they never thought themselves capable of.
When left to the imgination, war, rogue nukes, invasions earthquakes etc, etc, this end of days scenario with zombies actually is causing much of this. the easiest thing a confused person can do is go buy a gun.To many it seems like the logical thing to do. Like these shows and movies that are everyware now. This is a fairlly new phenomenon, it is a self fulfilling profecy. If enough people believe something they will cause it to occur.
Having a gun just gives some people a feeling that they are now prepared for what comes, thus the recruitment to guns, not necessarily to my ranks, as I have been a gun person who carried a gun for 43 years.So it's not a fad for me, nor do I believe that a gun will help if a serious disaster occurs, "but it can't hurt". The new "jump on the gun bandwagon" willl show in a few years to be a fad, for all but the few who trully are outdoorsmen and collectors, and shooters of various discplines. Not the weekend warrior, who buys whatever is the latest trend. This is not Bowling. I see some good deals in the future once the disenchanted loose interest.
Right now it's fear that is the motivater.

Fishslayer
November 18, 2012, 08:01 PM
So which do you think is the biggest conversion factor: the fun of a day at the range, or the healthy fear or a forcible felony and desire to protect oneself?

I would say both. The past few years I've seen a big increase in the number of female shooters and lots of other n00bs at the range & gun shops. The gals aren't all dragalongs, either.

I think a lot of people purchase a gun for protection and then discover that the shooting sports are fun.

There is almost a universal reaction to firing a gun for the first time. A big ol' ear to ear grin. ;)

blarby
November 18, 2012, 08:03 PM
Given the number of times I've seen it happen, including the time it happened to my wife.

I'm going to have to go with:

the fun of a day at the range

Steel Talon
November 18, 2012, 08:12 PM
For most new shooters taking up the hobby. I'd guess it was a friend that introduced them to shooting

breakingcontact
November 19, 2012, 12:59 AM
I get concerned that many new shooters are coming to it from vidja games (Hank Hill lingo) and zombie business.

There have really been 2 traditional routes to the hobby/lifestyle. Military and hunting.

We should definitely welcome the new shooters and try and cultivate them into good stewards. Can't be snobbish and deny them joining our ranks, especially if they get on board politically.

Nushif
November 19, 2012, 01:28 AM
I get concerned that many new shooters are coming to it from vidja games (Hank Hill lingo) and zombie business.

There have really been 2 traditional routes to the hobby/lifestyle. Military and hunting.

We should definitely welcome the new shooters and try and cultivate them into good stewards. Can't be snobbish and deny them joining our ranks, especially if they get on board politically.

I'm confused by this. You're worried people are coming on board from outside of your two traditional sources but you want them to? O.o

breakingcontact
November 19, 2012, 01:40 AM
You're confused. I'm concerned (not worried).

Why am I concerned. I think many of the video gamers and zombie hunters are living out their games. That's cause for concern.

The military and hunting traditions teach respect for firearms. They are tools not toys to me.

Either way. Consider my whole post. I want the new comers to learn the respect and safe handing of firearms. They can teach me about zombies and Call of Duty.

Ragnar Danneskjold
November 19, 2012, 01:48 AM
Why am I concerned. I think many of the video gamers and zombie hunters are living out their games. That's cause for concern.

I think you're dreadfully wrong and would wager you don't personally know very many video game players.

breakingcontact
November 19, 2012, 02:44 AM
Eh. Its all good. I enjoy a video game now and again but I'm not a "gamer". More importantly consider the overall sentiment of the post(s). People are joining the gun culture from non traditional backgrounds. That's OK. Lets bring them properly onboard and be glad to add them to out ranks.

9MMare
November 19, 2012, 03:41 AM
Neither one here :-)

I grew up in a gun-neutral family (with no guns) and eventually, after buying farm property and being around more gun supportive people, decided looking into a hand gun for SD was a good idea. So I took a ladies class, rented a bunch of guns at the range, enjoyed myself, and got my CC.

Oh...and I'm a Democrat and liberal (albeit a rather conservative one) :-)

Hacker15E
November 19, 2012, 07:39 AM
I think many of the video gamers and zombie hunters are living out their games.

Considering most of the first-person shooter games primarily involve shooting people, I don't agree that 'many' of those gamers are 'living out their games'.

Plan2Live
November 19, 2012, 08:06 AM
Age - Finances - Fear - Curiousity - Fun, in that order. Because:

If you grew up around guns then most people acquire them as soon as they are old enough Age and as soon as they can afford to own them Finances. If you didnt' grow up with them or grew up around them and developed some irrational dislike of firearms (liberal indoctronation) then waking up one day and realizing how dangerous the world really is or having your own close call with danger Fear will drive you to embrace firearms. Aside from the two reasons detailed above then I would say the next factors bringing people into the fold is simply Curiousity followed by Fun once people discover just how much fun a day at the range can be.

I was at the range this weekend and thanked a dad for his actions. He had his children out shooting. The youngest was a little girl about 5 years old. Under her dad's very watchful eye she fired a .22 rifle and a .22 1911 and did a fine job with both. When not shooting she stood back and either watched her siblings or picked up brass. she seemed to particularly like the kitty litter scoop and left the range in much better shaped than she found it. ;)

RFMan
November 19, 2012, 01:05 PM
You know, I love hearing the stories about how folks got into shooting. Yes, there are a few common denominators, and that analysis is useful. But, as far as the most common method? When I thought a moment about it, I decided...that I don't care. :) That's right.

There are opportunities all around us. We can talk to people. We can take people shooting. We can have good conversations at the range with new people, and make sure they enjoy that trip. We can even just LISTEN. So...as long as we keep bringing more folks into the fold, I kind of don't care how they get there.

Nushif
November 19, 2012, 01:53 PM
I think you're dreadfully wrong and would wager you don't personally know very many video game players.

Since we can't "upvote" posts I'd say this is spot on. But about this ongoing trend of fear leading people to buy a gun, when I bought my first gun out of fear ... it wasn't pleasant, it wasn't something I wanted to do and I really didn't feel at ease with having it.

It wasn't until I shot a handgun that I enjoyed shooting. so I question whether it's valuable to have people to our community our of fear. Maybe that's why we're so unpopular supposedly? Because instead of an initial exposure of fun, we get a big ol' dose of fear in our new guys?

jtischauser
November 19, 2012, 03:09 PM
Obama is a big right now. Everyone I know that is a "gun guy" is buying a gun in fear of more anti gun legislation.

Next up is hunting.

Next up is self defense.

I wish more people shot competitions like 3 gun.

valnar
November 19, 2012, 04:17 PM
Halal Pork said:
Posts 2 and 3 pretty well cover it.

I agree with this, as I'm one of them. I think people who come into guns later in life rarely do from the "Hunting" direction, but I imagine there are some of course.

mljdeckard
November 19, 2012, 05:01 PM
I think that if all you have is a bad experience, with no further mentoring or training, the desire will go away. People who are new to guns must be shown that they do have the ability to use it correctly. So, I think that the good range day AFTER the bad experience is just as important. If you have a young woman who has a bad experience of some degree, and the only one who can help her is her fat uncle Lou who went to half of the poolice academy in 1983, and he gives her a featherweight J-frame that beats her up and tells her automatics are for sissies, then she probably won't come away from that thinking that handguns are a good option for her.

fanchisimo
November 19, 2012, 10:36 PM
I grew up in a gun neutral home, but my gun progression went from being a video gamer, joined the army, got interested in guns, got out of the army, and am slowly learning hunting and the like. Loving it. Whatever it takes to open a person's mind to the gun world is great as long as they learn the safety elements of it.

I find the idea of an anti-gunner buying a gun for self defense both hypocritical and funny because of the hypocrisy.

HDCamel
November 20, 2012, 01:34 AM
Why am I concerned. I think many of the video gamers and zombie hunters are living out their games. That's cause for concern.

As far as gamers go, all of the science pretty much says that that doesn't happen. On the whole, gamers know the difference between fantasy and reality. They may buy a particular gun because they thought it was cool in Call of Duty (one of my purchases was because of Metal Gear Solid), but chances are they were already interested anyway. Also, though recent games have shied away from it, many shooters have friendly fire which requires players to learn proper trigger (or mouse) discipline and target identification, lest they earn the wrath of their friends and/or some of the more strict admins.

As for zombies, no matter how into it someone may seem, they know it's not real. They just like playing along with it. It's kind of like professional wrestling.

Out of all the gun owners out there, the only people who really concern me are the real WROL/doomsday preppers.

9MMare
November 20, 2012, 02:23 AM
As far as gamers go, all of the science pretty much says that that doesn't happen. On the whole, gamers know the difference between fantasy and reality. They may buy a particular gun because they thought it was cool in Call of Duty (one of my purchases was because of Metal Gear Solid), but chances are they were already interested anyway. Also, though recent games have shied away from it, many shooters have friendly fire which requires players to learn proper trigger (or mouse) discipline and target identification, lest they earn the wrath of their friends and/or some of the more strict admins.

As for zombies, no matter how into it someone may seem, they know it's not real. They just like playing along with it. It's kind of like professional wrestling.

Out of all the gun owners out there, the only people who really concern me are the real WROL/doomsday preppers.

What science shows that?

And the prepper thing is odd....I'd think they'd stay home, not go out looking for trouble.

HDCamel
November 20, 2012, 03:01 AM
What science shows that?

And the prepper thing is odd....I'd think they'd stay home, not go out looking for trouble.
There have been a few books on the subject. Probably the most influential of which is Grand Theft Childhood: The Surprising Truth About Violent Video Games and What Parents Can Do.

While most agree that playing violent video games cause a minor increase psychological and physiological aggression, there's no conclusive link between games and violent behavior (like school shootings) despite constant arguments to the contrary. Also, pretty much all of the studies that DO link the two are considered by the scientific community to be flawed mostly due to things like small sample sizes, use of outdated media, and poorly defined terms and statistics.

Basically, anti-gaming rhetoric is just as asinine as anti-gun rhetoric.


On the subject of preppers, they just seem paranoid and jumpy to me. Let's also not forget that they're eagerly awaiting a SHTF scenario so that they can show off their foresight and skills. Furthermore, and let's be honest here, despite all of the "sheepdog" rhetoric, a lot of these guys would be the marauder type. As such, I sometimes get the feeling that even in a small-scale WROL, like a natural disaster, one of them might shoot at me or someone else simply for entering their turf on the grounds of "self-defense".

Despite that, I'm really not concerned about them much at all. I'm simply more concerned about them than anyone else because I'm not really concerned with anyone else.

Perhaps I should have worded the original "the only people I have any real concerns about" meaning concerns (however small or unlikely that I may face them) that I feel are realistic in a given scenario and not just imagining the worst case scenario.

9MMare
November 20, 2012, 04:02 AM
It's just my opinion HD Camel, but in both those cases, I'd say you're just believing what you want to believe. Those are some pretty broad strokes in your descriptions in both cases.

And since I'm familiar with both sides, I see the gamers as the less connected to reality and the ones just looking for an excuse to 'act out.'

But that is just 'my' perspective on it.

Ragnar Danneskjold
November 20, 2012, 08:18 AM
Let's also not forget that they're eagerly awaiting a SHTF scenario so that they can show off their foresight and skills.

That's a gross mis-characterization and highly disparaging. All of the Preppers I know do it to build self reliance and to put themselves in a better positions. Preppers are the ones with the extra food and water during a disaster, a generator during a power outage, the knowledge to grow food or repair household items without relying on a big-box store to supply the needs of their life. As a very wise man (http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/) said, prepping is for "helping you to live a better life when times get tough, or even if they don't". Prepping is just learning to be prepared for life's ups and downs. Even owning and carrying a gun is form of preparing. You're preparing to supply your own meat. You're preparing to defend your life or the lives or loved ones. Preppers just take that mindset a step further and apply it to other areas of life. We as gun owners don't want to only rely on police to protect our lives. Preppers don't want to only rely on the just-in-time supply chain of a grocery store to supply food. Prepping is being able to live life on your own terms, so that if something bad does happen, big or small, you're prepared to deal with it and keep living they life you enjoy. Stop believing the BS you see on TV. "Doomsday Preppers" is about as an accurate representation of Preppers as "Sons of Guns" is of the average gun owner. TV shows have been and always will be total unrealistic nonsense.


As far as gamers go, this isn't the 1980s or 90s. I think some of you have a very outdated idea of gamers. Video games are not toys for children or Mountain Dew fueled teenagers anymore. I'm almost 30, working on my second degree, in my second term of enlistment in the military, and well within my career, and yet I still play X-Box nearly every day. And I am not alone. Stop trying to put people into little stereotypical boxes that you can disparage and blame for problems. If you think "gamers" are one group of people with one set of ideals/actions/mindset/etc, you are clearly out of touch with reality and wish instead to see reality in the simplistic the way you want it to be.

mljdeckard
November 20, 2012, 10:11 AM
Something to remember, our idea of escapism is evolving. Our fathers and grandfathers grew up watching cowboys and indians. People getting killed all of the time. Some of them had unrealistic perceptions about guns and violence too. Some of them had a difficult time growing up.

I really think it's on the parents to make sure their kids' activities are sufficiently diversified in order to ensure they learn the difference between video games and reality. (I make a serious effort to make sure that my little vampires get some sun on their skin every day, and that they occasionally eat something green. Soon I will start taking them to Appleseed shoots.)

gym
November 20, 2012, 11:06 AM
On the video game note, most folks I know who are into guns, aren't into video games, and the ones who are like my late 30's professional couple next door, hate real guns, yet own every console from PS3,-to xbox, and "she" is a highlly ranked online player.
I gave her my AR, to hold, she had never held a real rifle. She wans not interested in it at all, she actually was in fear of it.
Yet they play black ops all the time, and Halo, call of duty etc. So it dosen't really translate.

HDCamel
November 20, 2012, 11:33 AM
It's just my opinion HD Camel, but in both those cases, I'd say you're just believing what you want to believe. Those are some pretty broad strokes in your descriptions in both cases.

And since I'm familiar with both sides, I see the gamers as the less connected to reality and the ones just looking for an excuse to 'act out.'

But that is just 'my' perspective on it.
I'm sorry if my opinion of preppers is misinformed, but the only exposure I've had to them are the guys I've met at gun shows and guys I've talked to over the internet. They've all been as I described. So it would be more accurate to say that a particular subset of preppers are the only firearms owners who concern me and still not very much at that.

The info about video games is scientific fact though. There is no conclusive link between video games and violent behavior. It's not just wishful thinking. I gave you the title of a definitive work on the subject, what more do you want?

mljdeckard
November 20, 2012, 12:09 PM
It's not that I don't think it's a good idea to be prepared for the most likely needs, at least for a few days. But I know some people who go all-out, but when they talk to me, I realize that they have never actually tested any of the gear they are buying, and if they ever actually had to live through a crisis, they have no idea where to start.

My own mother has come around a bit, but she showed me a list of items someone told her she should have, a lot of them were brands that no longer exist as she thought they did, or were never great to begin with. I also persuaded her to realize that if there is a REAL crisis, and she has resources no one else does, she will have to be ready to fight to keep them.

J-Bar
November 20, 2012, 12:15 PM
Cowboy Action Shooting has brought in quite a few new shooters, many of them spouses and children who wanted to share in the fun. The number of old west style revolvers, rifles, and shotguns available today is much greater than 15 years ago because of the popularity of this sport, and is proof that this shooting format has had a positive effect. When I joined SASS in 1998, I was member #18287. Badge numbers are now up in the 90,000 range.

Say what you will about dressing up and playing cowboy, families and friends shooting real ammo in friendly competition helps all shooting sports.

W.E.G.
November 20, 2012, 12:16 PM
And here all along I thought it was Matt Dillon (for you young 'uns - NO that's not the guy from the Bourne movies) who inspired everybody.

Hokkmike
November 20, 2012, 12:44 PM
Day at the range to be sure. And they can see we are NOT the "dark side"....

gym
November 20, 2012, 04:25 PM
I just came back from the doctor, "who carries", a Glock 19, at my recommendation a few years ago. After which I went to the pharmacy, where while waiting, I got in to a discussion that went from eyewear, oakleys, to guns with a young couple also waiting for their order. She showed me her Kimber Ultra, "Crimson Trace", in her pocketbok, almost immediatlly when we changed the topic to firearms. This was the last little girl that I would have suspected of carrying a gun. So it just goes to show, everyone is doing it when allowed.
If you build it they will come, if you allow it they will carry.

oneounceload
November 20, 2012, 04:29 PM
I would say that most of us grew up shooting,

Maybe of those who come on forums like these - however, most new gun owners see the news and are scared - whether political, racial, financial, criminal, EOTWAWKI, or whatever - they are perceiving a grave threat about to happen
Since BO's first election, the majority of guns bought have NOT been the traditional wood and steel hunting, target types but the AR and the small SD gun

There's a reason for that

RobNDenver
November 20, 2012, 07:11 PM
I'd have to say that new gun owners are headed to the light! Those that aren't in our camp are in the dark. Most new gun owners I've met are concerned about their personal safety or the safety of their families. Some are new hunters, but not many I don't think.

fanchisimo
November 21, 2012, 04:43 AM
I think hunting is on the downswing as popularity goes, but I think a few new gun owners might be attracted to it. It is a test of your shooting skills when it actually matters if you hit the target. You miss on paper, no biggie, but you miss on your hunt, might mean a long time tracking and possibly not ever getting your animal.

Resist Evil
November 21, 2012, 06:25 AM
A gun placed against my skull in a dark parking lot converted me from unarmed to armed nearly 40 yrs ago.

BrotherFrankie
November 21, 2012, 11:38 AM
well, ill add my 2 cents here.

I grew up in NYC.. yeah the place were guns are evil. (sorta joke).. mostly Bronx and brooklyn.. later the island (long if ya gotta ask)

thing is, everyone on my block/building owned a gun and or carried one. Illegally.. lets see, we had butchers, retailers, deli owners, blue collar, cops, teamsters, fireman, etc.. it was a normal Brooklyn neighborhood.

My dad was a delegate for a very large union that for the most part was run by Italians. He always said every home should have one and on the block it is just like having your wallet and keys... I got to visit him in "school" as jail it was called on the block throughout the years. LIL misunderstandings with the law my mom would say.

I admired these men when I was a kid. Their cars, their clothes...the power..

Back to OP, having a SD weapon was normal. Illegal or not. NYC is not gun friendly at all. I became the black sheep of my family by the age of thirty for announcing i was republican and was going to seminary.. Go figure.. but from a family of Italian Catholics thats like cussin yer momma out..

I raised many foster kids, and live in the south now a days. Now that the fostering has finished, i now carry legally just because i believe in what my Pops said.. "every home should have one and on the block it is just like having your wallet and keys, dont leave the house without them"

Sorry this is long.. folks do change. my first sermon was my moms funeral over 20 years ago. I am a decorated (for what thats worth) veteran and a pastor to vets, bikers, homeless and some....... gasp, regular middle class folk.. my new neighbor just asked me about Guns. then asked if i would mind taking him to the range. He said if a preacher can carry it cant be all bad. (obama sticker on his car)

appreciate the higher ground.. keep it up boys and girls, ladies and gents..

be blessed.

9MMare
November 22, 2012, 11:32 PM
I'm sorry if my opinion of preppers is misinformed, but the only exposure I've had to them are the guys I've met at gun shows and guys I've talked to over the internet. They've all been as I described. So it would be more accurate to say that a particular subset of preppers are the only firearms owners who concern me and still not very much at that.

The info about video games is scientific fact though. There is no conclusive link between video games and violent behavior. It's not just wishful thinking. I gave you the title of a definitive work on the subject, what more do you want?

I appreciated the sources, I've seen similar. And I've seen other 'sources' that said the opposite.

I do, just IMO, believe that games like that do blur the lines for boys when it comes to reality and violence.

Of course, movies and TV did that for a generation before...and I believe it happened there too. We see the evidence of BOTH in the videos we all see of convenience store robberies and bank hold ups....the guns held sideways, the exact wording from games & movies, etc etc. The shooter in the Colo theater was dressed as the Joker.

For any of us here...who can say we were 'immersed' in something fully and then could just mentally disengage completely?

ironworkerwill
January 3, 2013, 12:25 PM
I suppose im one of those "fly over country" hillbillies. I cant imagine not owning firearms. my life revolves around hunting and fishing. I enjoy nothing more than to to take my boys(13 and 11 years old) out and soak up some fellowship of older experienced outdoorsmen. It goes unsaid but we literally work to hit the woods.

nowadays the liberal mindset and general wussification of our nation has vilified hunters and gun owners.

My grandma has successfully stopped invaders just by mentioning the fact that they would shot full of .38 holes. whether she would or not who knows( most likely).
And for myself as a soldier and later as a dad, how could we defend our nation inside or out without arms. An unarmed nation is an easily divided nation, which cannot stand for long.

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