Any State Militias Not using .223 rifles>

Curious if any state militias (national guard) are issued anything other than a .223 caliber rifle? If so what are they using and why?

Curious if any state militias (national guard) are issued anything other than a .223 caliber rifle? If so what are they using and why?

Depending on the particular unit the National Guard is issued everything from dull forks to Abrams tanks and everything in between.

Short answer, no.

Long answer: there's all sorts of odd stuff stored in National Guard Armories. As far as small arms/rifles? They aren't going to start re-issuing Garands and Carbines and M-14's (suspect most of those if there were any left have gone to DMR programs.)

Pretty sure that none of them are issued .223s. Mostly likely would be 5.56mm.

The National Guard is not the same as State Guard or militia. The National Guard is a sub branch of the US military and as such uses pretty much the same gear and weapons as the front line military. Well, in theory at least.

Short answer, no.

Long answer: there's all sorts of odd stuff stored in National Guard Armories. As far as small arms/rifles? They aren't going to start re-issuing Garands and Carbines and M-14's (suspect most of those if there were any left have gone to DMR programs.)
Actually, at least one state (MS) reissued some M14s for units (specifically 155 Armored Brigade) for their deployment to Iraq in 2005. Each squad had one issued to their designated marksman.

Beyond that, although "nitpicky" none of the US military uses .223 rifles, they are 5.56mm NATO - the difference is subtle, but there nonetheless.

Among other things: "On a .223 Remington spec rifle, the leade will be 0.085”. This is the standard described by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute, Inc. (SAAMI). The leade in a 5.56 NATO spec rifle is 0.162”, or almost double the leade of the .223 rifle." This can lead to very bad things if ammo is mixed.

http://www.humanevents.com/2011/02/15/223-remington-vs-556-nato-what-you-dont-know-could-hurt-you/

In the mid-1980s, the Texas State Guard bought some 7.62x51 Holloway Arms HAC-7 rifles. I have no idea what became of them.

The National Guard is a sub branch of the US military and as such uses pretty much the same gear and weapons as the front line military. Well, in theory at least.

Well, at least what the front line guys were using 20 years ago. NG always gets hand-me-downs. One of the bases near me just finally started getting LMTVs; They had a fleet of M35 and M818-chassis trucks until about 2 years ago.

And yes, it's important to understand that NG is not militia. They are US Army.

I was in the Massachusetts State Guard from 2000-2005 before moving on to the federal service. We did not have weapons in our Table of Organization and Equipment. Since we mainly provided combat training support for the National Guard, any weapons we needed were provided by them.

Only occasionally did personally-owned weapons come into play; the only time I can remember is when one of our members got permission to bring his semi-auto M1919A4 to Camp Edwards. Obviously, this sort of thing is rare, and even when we were training on state land or private property, the Guard frowned upon personally-owned weapons for safety reasons. I never did get to use my M1 for training, but I did manage to amass a rather large stockpile of 5.56 and .30-06 blanks.

After joining the National Guard, I've seen just about anything you can imagine in our armories, though I'm too young to have seen any M1911s or M1919s. My Air Guard unit still has stock M14s, as well as several M1s, although the latter are for the Honor Guard.

OT:

Among other things: "On a .223 Remington spec rifle, the leade will be 0.085”. This is the standard described by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute, Inc. (SAAMI). The leade in a 5.56 NATO spec rifle is 0.162”, or almost double the leade of the .223 rifle." This can lead to very bad things if ammo is mixed

Maybe. Since we're talking AR/M-16 pattern rifles being issued, here's some relevant info for the discussion.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

The National Guard is not the same as State Guard or militia. The National Guard is a sub branch of the US military and as such uses pretty much the same gear and weapons as the front line military.


Making sure we are all on the same page.

-CITE-
10 USC Sec. 311 01/03/2012 (112-90)

-EXPCITE-
TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES
Subtitle A - General Military Law
PART I - ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS
CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA

-HEAD-
Sec. 311. Militia: composition and classes

-STATUTE-
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a
declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States
and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the
National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are -
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the
Naval Militia.

The National Guard is a sub branch of the US military...

ONLY when they are federalized. Otherwise, they are part of the state government and under state control.

Yeah . . . kind of. Even when not federalized, the federal government foots about 95% of the bill for National Guard units, which means the Big Army/USAF have tremendous say on how things go when 'Guard units aren't on Title 10. Like every other federal gravy train, that could include turning off the money if some state governor decided he was the new Clausewitz and wanted to reorganize and reequip his state's NG units to match his own military thinking or something.

Active Army and National Guard funding work on a trickle effect. NG units ask the Federal Government for equipment and typically get older, less cutting edge equipment compared to active military components. Since NG units have been deploying with almost the same pace as active duty, the equipment has been getting better. When NG units are not on active duty orders (Title 32) they are assets of the state government. The Federal Government asks permission to use up to 50% of a state's NG for federal (Title 10) deployment. Roughly 50% of NG of a state remain behind on Title 32 orders in case of natural disaster, which is the NG primary mission.

Since NG units have been deploying with almost the same pace as active duty, the equipment has been getting better.

It's changed a lot since pre-9/11. My last trip, just concluded, was with an NG infantry unit, and we had better individual equipment than the active-duty route clearance guys we shared a FOB with (M4s vs M16A2s, current generation PEQs versus a couple models ago on their guns, etc.). On the other hand, within 12 months prior to deployment I was having to walk junior enlisted guys through assembly/disassembly of M60 machine guns someone found somewhere for training while waiting on M240s to show up for deployment. It's been so long since anyone got initial entry training on M60 or anyone used them that even some team leaders and squad leaders had never seen one in person.

Making sure we are all on the same page.
I am dragging the thread sideways, but this citation of the US Code is the argument that one uses to argue with antigunners that the militia is now the national guard.

Read it again, if you are between 17 and 45, YOU are the militia!

Good militia needs modern weapons( weapons that appear black and evil). End of argument.

Read it again, if you are between 17 and 45, YOU are the militia!


..and if you are a private citizen who is female or a male who is 46 years of age you are NOT the militia. 1

This is why Heller was so important, it affirmed the RTKABA outside militia service.





1.Unless your state constitution defines it more broadly.

I'm a member of the 1st Squadron 278th Armored Cavalry Regiment of the TN National Guard,, our standard issue rifle is the M4 we have some M14s, M24 and DMR rifles. If you are on a Bradley your side arm is a sig M11A1 if you in any other role in the unit you get an M9

State militia??

from what i see, its the 5.56 and 7.62x51 that is used primarily

State militia??

Some states have regular* state militia or state defense forces that are not federal.
About half of all states have these forces organized and administered by their state governments.









*differentiated from the irregular armed populace type of militia.