Check out this "Model 10"


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Guillermo
November 17, 2012, 01:01 PM
"Someone" got a great deal

:D

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=317103376

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/317103000/317103376/pix713071487.jpg

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wanderinwalker
November 17, 2012, 01:09 PM
I think that deserves one of these: :eek:

(Now I want a nice .38/44 Heavy Duty too... :banghead: )

messerist
November 17, 2012, 01:11 PM
What a revolver! And for a very nice price. I'm always hunting Gunbroker for revolvers but my CFO(wife) always puts the "keebash" on my delusions of grandure!

Guillermo
November 17, 2012, 01:17 PM
Pedalbiker started a thread about a 7 shot 9mm and I suggested that the answer to his problem was a Model 10.

I was going to look up some for him on GunBroker since Buds's and J&G didn't have any on their website and came across that.

a 38/44 for 400 bucks...(sounding exactly like Ted Nugent) are you kidding me?!?!?!?

SaxonPig
November 17, 2012, 02:42 PM
Every 38 S&W from the M&Ps to Victory Models and even the HDs get tagged as a Model 10 by uninformed dealers. OR... he put the wrong photo in the auction listing.

Cocked & Locked
November 17, 2012, 03:35 PM
Good Grief! Nice "model 10" :what:

I would like to stumble across a nice 4" HD misidentified and available at that price. Never happens. :(

Walkalong
November 17, 2012, 07:59 PM
Sweet!

Are you grinning like the cat that ate the canary? :)

Guillermo
November 17, 2012, 08:08 PM
I am pretty stoked.

Told the guy that he had it misidentified.

He said he took it in pawn (probably gave the guy a hundred bucks for it) and he was happy.

He's happy, I'm happy.

Never owned a N frame before. If I don't like it I can sell it, give someone a good deal AND make a profit.

HKGuns
November 17, 2012, 08:12 PM
Ok, G....For those of us who are S&W rookies and can't tell what it is from your picture could you enlighten us please? Regardless of what it really is, it looks very nice. But hard to understand why you haven't had any N frames before.

Quoheleth
November 17, 2012, 08:15 PM
*sigh*

Nice score.

Q

Guillermo
November 17, 2012, 08:17 PM
38/44

This one is a transitional model, built just after WWII.

It is an N frame 38 Special

They were kicking up the velocity of the cartridge...think of an early .357.

38/44s are not common and pretty pricey. If this one is in as nice of shape as it looks, it could be a 650-750 dollar gun.

http://www.38-44heavyduty.com/38-44_HEAVY_DUTY_HISTORY.php

Old Fuff
November 17, 2012, 08:34 PM
This one is a transitional model, built just after WWII.

Yup, built with pre-war (long-action) parts with only the addition of the positive hammer block. They are far more rare then the K-frame .38 Military & Police (pre-model 10) in the same configuration. Watch where you go or you'll be mugged by a collector.

If any revolver can be set up with a smoother, flawless double-action trigger pull then a long-action M&P .38 this is the one, and it can be safely carried fully loaded.

Oh... This is one time where I'll agree you are good to go with all of the .38 Special Plus-P you want to shoot. :evil:

jhvaughan2
November 17, 2012, 08:51 PM
WOW!:eek:
And a transitional too? I was bidding on a miss marked one of these a couple of years ago but some other folks noticed it and it went on up. The buy it now is what made it for the purchaser.

Guillermo
November 17, 2012, 09:20 PM
Watch where you go or you'll be mugged by a collector.

I have never liked the balance of N frames so I do not know how much I will like it.

If they make the right offer I might let them have it.

This is one time where I'll agree you are good to go with all of the .38 Special Plus-P you want to shoot.

this thing was made for a LOT hotter ammo than the regular 38 ammo of the day (+P in current jargon)

Guillermo
November 17, 2012, 09:29 PM
Perhaps I am wrong but I think that Old Fuff is saying that this might not be the worst buy I ever made.

I just hope that I can stop him from cutting off the trigger guard

:what:

PabloJ
November 17, 2012, 10:45 PM
The reason these are not common is because nobody wanted to "drag" that thing around. If you're into stuff like this $400 is very good price. Personally I would rather have ubiquitous K frame .38 with RB and anorexic barrel for less money.

Guillermo
November 17, 2012, 11:13 PM
Personally I would rather have ubiquitous K frame .38 with RB and anorexic barrel for less money.

I understand the love for K Frames

3 15s, 1 14 and 2 K22s indicate that I just MIGHT have a K-frame problem...especially if you add the hand ejector 3rd change.

788Ham
November 18, 2012, 12:51 AM
G,

Take my word for it, "you'll love it!" I think you're destined to be that guy that falls in the pig yard and smells like a bouquet of roses! Will wonders never cease! Ha

You did good Guillermo, give this ol' gal a chance, mine shoots lights out, bet you'll be surprised too. The heaviest +p loads will shoot like .22's !

Guillermo
November 18, 2012, 01:11 AM
788Ham,

I would like to point out that I was doing something nice for a fellow THRer when I came across the 38/44.

And I gave the guy a chance to back out of the deal.

Not a "septic tank broke and was filled with Chanel #5 when I fell in" situation. Just good karma.

I can't wait to get the old girl into my hands.

U know I will let you know how she is. (the pics look really nice)

wlewisiii
November 18, 2012, 10:07 AM
Good base for conversion to a Fitz in .45 Colt... :evil:

Nah, seriously that's a really great buy. Glad I didn't see it because I'd have been rather depressed because I wouldn't have had the money for it. :banghead:

Have fun shooting it while I keep an eye out for another nice Model 10 pencil barrel when I have the money for it :)

Brian Williams
November 18, 2012, 11:13 AM
I did the same thing a few years ago, local had it listed as a M&P.

Iggy
November 18, 2012, 12:17 PM
That's got to be close to the deal of the year.

I know some S&W collectors including me that would be having fits over that deal.

Let me know if you decide you don't like N frames.:cool:

skidder
November 18, 2012, 01:09 PM
Not something you see everyday.
Congrats G.

A 357 in sheeps clothing :rolleyes:. I bet that would eat Elmer's 38 loads for breakfast (and maybe some of mine).:evil:

Man... that would make a great hiking revolver. The wolves, bears, lions are getting real close to Grandma's house.:fire:

CraigC
November 18, 2012, 03:03 PM
Damn, I'd have been all over that!!! :D


The reason these are not common is because nobody wanted to "drag" that thing around. If you're into stuff like this $400 is very good price. Personally I would rather have ubiquitous K frame .38 with RB and anorexic barrel for less money.
You mean like those model 27's that never sold very well at all??? Fact is, this is not "just a .38" but a .38-44HD and loaded properly, will do 90% the .357 will do with the added cool factor. They're not very common because the .357 superseded it. Pablo, you post the weirdest things. :rolleyes:

rswartsell
November 18, 2012, 05:00 PM
Damn Guillermo,

You are riding a hot streak. I oughta' have you shopping for me!

snooperman
November 18, 2012, 05:41 PM
Very nice.. Enjoy Guillermo , it is beautiful.

rcmodel
November 18, 2012, 06:03 PM
I went in the Cabala's Gun Library a couple of years ago and they had a near perfect 38/44 Outdoorsman in the case listed as a .38 M&P with some crazy low price on it!!

Stupid me, I told them what it was, and they yanked it out of the case so fast I didn't see the guys hand reach in there after it!

rc

Guillermo
November 18, 2012, 06:08 PM
I told the guy. It was the right thing to do.

But he lived up to the deal.

A pawn broker...trust me...he did just fine on the deal.

CraigC
November 18, 2012, 06:16 PM
I bought a 6" .38-44HD in very good condition, perhaps 90%, that wasn't explicitly marked as a K-frame but it was priced like it at around $280. I happily traded a well-used Redhawk .44 for it and not long thereafter traded the .38-44 for a Mundenized, pre-lock 629MG. About a $600 sixgun at the time with $200 worth of tuning, that shoots into 2"@50yds with preferred loads. Wish I could find a similar deal on a similarly nice 4" .38-44 like the one you just stole. :neener:

Guillermo
November 18, 2012, 06:32 PM
like the one you just stole.

now now...it wasn't theft.

It was a good deal.

425 (w shipping) for a gun worth...what? 750? 800?

CraigC
November 18, 2012, 06:36 PM
...it wasn't theft.
.....said the thief! :neener:

Iggy
November 18, 2012, 07:53 PM
850 and maybe another 100 for the transition model and that's a conservative guess.

Old Fuff
November 18, 2012, 08:06 PM
Following World War Two, Smith & Wesson assigned the letter "S" as a serial number prefix on they're K-frame Military & Police model. They also used the same letter on various N-frame revolvers during the same period.

Too many folks that don't know this jump to the conclusion that "S" = K-frame guns, in particular the Military & Police model.

Tis not true. :uhoh:

Jaymo
November 18, 2012, 09:03 PM
That's the bigges K frame I've ever seen. Someone scored a nice 38-44.

Guillermo
November 18, 2012, 09:33 PM
Jaymo

The 38/44 is an N frame

Basically an early model 27. (hot 38 instead of 357 like the 27)

http://www.38-44heavyduty.com/38-44_HEAVY_DUTY_HISTORY.php

Jaymo
November 18, 2012, 10:02 PM
I know. That's what I meant. That's the first N frame model 10 I've ever seen. ;)
Someone got a great deal on a great old revolver.
I'd have paid that for an old K frame in that condition. The fact that he got a very valuable old N frame for the price of a nice K frame is just icing on the cake.

Or should I say, YOU got a great deal, Guillermo. I am envious of you, but a also very happy for you. It's good for it to have gone to someone who can appreciate it.
I don't have enough thumbs to put up for you, on this deal. You should buy some lottery tickets.

Guillermo
November 18, 2012, 10:33 PM
You should buy some lottery tickets

I think I did

:)


Sorry for the confusion about the "K Frame" thing.

sometimes sarcasm does not work on the internet :(

Chevelle SS
November 18, 2012, 10:43 PM
You got scammed, that is not a Model 10. I'll take it off you hands for $100 :D

Guillermo
November 18, 2012, 10:49 PM
you should buy some lottery tickets

damn it!!!

I got scammed!!!

Jaymo
November 18, 2012, 11:06 PM
No problem, Guillermo. I'm not mad at ya. Just a little envious. Like I said, I'm happy for you.
Plus, I'm happy enough with my new SR9.

Cocked & Locked
November 19, 2012, 12:11 AM
The reason these are not common is because nobody wanted to "drag" that thing around. If you're into stuff like this $400 is very good price. Personally I would rather have ubiquitous K frame .38 with RB and anorexic barrel for less money.

You should not have a problem finding one. :scrutiny:

788Ham
November 19, 2012, 12:51 AM
You ought to go onto the S&W forum and look at one guys collection of 38-44's, I think he's got close to 30 of them, some even with the boxes!

You didn't get scammed G. , wait til you hold that honey in your hands, nice!!!

Guillermo
November 19, 2012, 01:01 AM
I know him

Peter Eick

The boy has cornered the market


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=668059

http://eickpm.com/picts/3844_hd_071512.jpg

788Ham
November 19, 2012, 01:23 AM
Not sure abut that G. , the other guy might have the other 1/2 ! Never saw this collection, whew, nice revolvers. Thanks for posting.

CraigC
November 19, 2012, 12:54 PM
Yes, that is just sick! :D

Iggy
November 19, 2012, 01:07 PM
How come we ain't got a "jealous" smiley on this here forum?

We sure need one right now.

The other feller on the S&W forum that specializes in HDs is Aspenhill. He's got some web pages about them too.

Alfonse99
November 19, 2012, 02:50 PM
That's a beauty!

Cocked & Locked
November 19, 2012, 02:56 PM
And it ain't the same thing either.

Alfonse99
November 19, 2012, 02:57 PM
Figured that out. Thanks,

AJMBLAZER
November 19, 2012, 05:14 PM
Ooooph, nice!

<------Envious.

rromeo
November 21, 2012, 10:48 PM
I almost bought one last year, for a similar price, under similar circumstances, except neither of us knew what it was. It was on a local board, and he was selling it as a Model 10 for $350. I hadn't seen photos and offered $275, thinking it was a 10. When I got pics, I didn't know what it was, but it sure wasn't a 10. After some research, the price doubled.

Malamute
November 22, 2012, 02:04 PM
Nice old shooter there!


I saw what was tagged as a model 10 in a gun/pawn shop case once. I looked at it, and commented that it wasn't a model 10. They said they were making their money, no problem, so I bought it. It was priced at $185 (in the 80's). It was a 38-44 heavy duty, 5", with special order adjustable rear sight (the one that's fitted very low and cleanly into the top strap), and a special order ivory bead front sight. I took it to another shop, owned by a friend that collected Smiths. His eyes lit up! He had a case of the "Wants"! It had a little holster wear, which he didn't tend to buy for his collection, but with the special order features, he was willing to overlook the minor wear. He traded me a new 586 in a 6" (when they were a new model), a holster, cartridge belt, and a box of shells.

I still think he got the best end of the deal, and regret trading it off.

ElToro
November 22, 2012, 03:01 PM
my first 38/44 HD was mislabled as a model 19 in a gun store. got it for $350 about 7 years ago. my outdoorsman was mislabled as a 28 in another store about the same time 7-8 years ago. poached it for $200

you never know what your gonna find but you got to keep your eye out. if it was a little old lady selling it i would advise her what it was and its worth. but a gun dealer running a store ? not my problem

nice score

Guillermo
November 23, 2012, 12:47 PM
a gun dealer running a store ? not my problem

while I understand the concept, an expert is supposed to show expertise, I would argue otherwise. If you think it is "hosing" of the old lady it is "hosing" the store too.

In this case, I committed by hitting the "buy it now" and sent him my FFL and CC#. Then we talked. He seller decided that he was making good money. After all, he took it as a model 10 and $400 is a premium.

CraigC
November 23, 2012, 01:05 PM
Well then I have no problem "hosing" most gun shops. Used to work at one, know what they pay for guns. I know they "hosed" whatever individual they bought it from so I do not feel inclined to correct their mistake and increase their profits exponentially. That said, I have developed a very good relationship with my local shop here in Savannah and thus, would not do anything to jeopardize that.

Guillermo
November 23, 2012, 01:15 PM
While I understand your position, "hosing" is "hosing".

To me...it is not about them.

Am I the guy that "hoses" people or not?

BTW, the other side of the argument is "they set the price, I agreed to it...therefore it is not "hosing' to say "I'll take it"".

I would counter that if you walked onto the sales floor of a Chevy dealer and the Z06 had a misprinted sales label, you wouldn't expect them to sell it for that.

CraigC
November 23, 2012, 02:41 PM
I would counter that if you walked onto the sales floor of a Chevy dealer and the Z06 had a misprinted sales label, you wouldn't expect them to sell it for that.
That's kinda different, it's not like the dealer hosed GM out of Z06. I wouldn't reward the dealer for hosing the little old lady they bought the gun from with even more profit. You know for a fact that they're not gonna contact the little old lady and give her more money.

Like I said, I have no problem "hosing" the hoser. I stand by what I said before and whatever moral implications result.

Guillermo
November 23, 2012, 02:50 PM
I understand

To me, the chain of possession doesn't matter.

Robbing a robber is still robbery. I can only control my actions.

Not saying u r wrong

CraigC
November 23, 2012, 03:01 PM
Robbing a robber is still robbery. I can only control my actions.
Yes but how does rewarding the robber with more loot fit in? ;)

The real victim here, if there even is one, is the person the dealer bought the gun from. But then you could also say that it pays to be an educated seller.

ElToro
November 23, 2012, 03:10 PM
you didnt call the guy up after you won the auction and volunteer to pay market price for a HD did you ?

Guillermo
November 23, 2012, 04:09 PM
It was a "buy now" price.
I committed to buy it and then told him that it was misidentified and more valuable. That he didn't have to go through w it.

He said, in essence "I got mine...enjoy"

Walkalong
November 23, 2012, 04:51 PM
It was a "professional" selling a gun at an agreed on asking price. I would have bought it with no qualms at all. Guillermo did well.

The dealer who sold the gun made money, and is by all accounts is happy. The person who sold the gun to the dealer did not do so well. They should have researched it. But hey, they might be happy as well. If they bought it new, they probably made money as well, just not what they could have if they had researched things.

Guillermo should sleep like a baby over this. No foul here.

wlewisiii
November 23, 2012, 11:20 PM
"It was a "professional" selling a gun at an agreed on asking price. I would have bought it with no qualms at all. Guillermo did well. "

This. +1000.

It's his job to know better. If I were in that spot I wouldn't even give as much as he did by talking it over with the guy.

Guillermo
November 24, 2012, 09:41 AM
golden rule

were it your gun case you would want to be told that you erred, if only not to do so again

788Ham
November 24, 2012, 01:50 PM
You still waiting on that "bundle of joy" ? You did good G, those that wait and don't pull the trigger are the ones left wanting... such as the model 10 I hope to pick up next weekend!

Guillermo
November 24, 2012, 02:23 PM
it was delivered yesterday but my FFL is a cop and works wierd hours.

Probably w pick it up Monday or Tuesday.

rswartsell
November 25, 2012, 04:21 PM
Can you post a range review? I'm on tenterhooks here.

Guillermo
November 25, 2012, 04:26 PM
I'm on tenterhooks here.

I pick it up from the FFL in the morning (he was out of town this weekend)

rswartsell
November 25, 2012, 05:18 PM
Yessir, I get that, but will you work it out and share with the less fortunate that haven't experienced 38/44 but not for lack of interest? I think we can count on you.

Guillermo
November 25, 2012, 06:28 PM
get to Austin and you can have some trigger time

I am happy to share my toys.

:D

Iggy
November 26, 2012, 01:57 PM
Guillermo,

If you are a reloader, you need to load up a dozen rounds to Elmer Keith's specs with 2400 powder and 158 or 170 grain SWCs

Then you will appreciate what a great gun that ol HD really is. Otherwise, it just feels like a .38 cal squirt gun.;)

Guillermo
November 26, 2012, 02:52 PM
Sounds like fun!

I just picked up the beast.

Good Lord!!!

Until u hold one u really don't fathom it.

Iggy
November 26, 2012, 04:22 PM
It ain't an M&P that's for sure!!!:evil:
You've got some purentee fun acomin'. Learn and enjoy:)

I have the adjustable sight version 1934 vintage Outdoorsman. It shoots like a rifle with the EK loads described above.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/Iggy25/Outdoorsman-1.jpg

Checkman
November 26, 2012, 04:51 PM
Yes indeed. Nice find. I own a pre-war (mfd. 1937) Heavy Duty with the 5" barrel. Very nice revolvers.

Cocked & Locked
November 26, 2012, 08:10 PM
yall quit :(

CraigC
November 26, 2012, 11:29 PM
I have the adjustable sight version 1934 vintage Outdoorsman. It shoots like a rifle with the EK loads described above.
Mighty fine, sir!

788Ham
November 27, 2012, 12:32 AM
How come no holster wear on that thing Iggy? Safe Queen I'm a bettin' !!

Whatta you think of my fascination in wanting one now G ? Think it'll do some heavy shooting down range? I knew you'd like it, wait til you pry some off, then you'll know what I was talking about. Enjoy !!

Guillermo
November 27, 2012, 12:57 AM
Ham,

Coolness factor is very high.

Not in love with it.

VERY heavy, great trigger.

Going to shoot it and see what I think.

And I promise, will report.

Iggy
November 27, 2012, 09:41 AM
Guillermo,
Before you make up your mind, here's some reading material on the old HD.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/blogs/categories/bill-patteson/

Here's some info on Transition models.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/blogs/1aspenhill/95-n-frame-engineering-changes-transition-38-44-heavy-duties.html

If you're still not in love after shooting some EK loads or at least some Plus P .38's, I refer you to post #22


I'd even entertain you making a small profit. Someone has to keep them from disappearing into anonymity in Peter's dark and secret stash.:D


788HAM,

There's some holster wear on the muzzle. I've got a holster for it, but I admit, it gets some pretty tender treatment.

rswartsell
November 27, 2012, 07:58 PM
Wait just a consarned minute thar Iggy, we may have a bidding war!:eek:

Guillermo
November 27, 2012, 08:20 PM
I am not saying that I don't like it...just not a "love at first sight" situation.

VERY high on the cool scale.

I have to put some rounds through "the Beast" before I make any decisions.

Iggy
November 27, 2012, 08:35 PM
Wait just a consarned minute thar Iggy, we may have a bidding war!


Wall, I'm so poor that I eat dry beans for breakfast, drink water for lunch, and they swell up and bust for supper, so you may not have much competition.;):D

Old Fuff
November 27, 2012, 11:54 PM
None of you ordinary... ah, common people stand a chance.... :neener:

'Cuz the Old Fuff is passing through Texas... :evil:

Only the Shadow knows... Beware of what lurks in the dark places... :uhoh:

rswartsell
November 27, 2012, 11:58 PM
Well, Guillermo,

If you didn't feel like a score like this one would stir up a fuss on this board, I guess you know better now. Please, do let us know how it does at the range and be advised that about half of a half of us know what you have and don't know what we are missing!;)

Guillermo
November 28, 2012, 01:58 AM
Cuz the Old Fuff is passing through Texas

If ya get through Austin let me know. I will treat you to the world's greatest beef ribs and an Austin Amber.


Besides, Stile's Switch doesn't have a bench grinder.

Old Fuff
November 28, 2012, 08:51 AM
Oh darn....

You're in the wrong place. I will be passing through El Paso going west... :(

Walkalong
November 29, 2012, 08:29 AM
VERY high on the cool scale.Yes, it has serious cool factor indeed.

rswartsell
November 29, 2012, 09:51 PM
With the Fuffster out of the running the coon-ass/Hillbilly stands a chance. Gotta admit though, the curiosity that brews strange dreams lives in the thought of a "Fitz'ed" Heavy Duty.

Just what sort of man carries THAT?

Did he have a heavy brow and jaw, elongated skull and excess body hair?:eek:

Guillermo
November 29, 2012, 10:13 PM
Did he have a heavy brow and jaw, elongated skull and excess body hair?

that is a perfect description of Old Fuff except you forgot to add that he wears hooker heels (pink camo) and stockings with the seam up the back of his leg. The open back of his dress reveals hair that he has sculpted into the shape of a raven.

http://www.thewilderness.com/storepinnacle/images/images/gunsite_raven.jpg




:neener:

788Ham
November 29, 2012, 10:45 PM
OKAY G,

Its been 2 days now, didja get out and shoot that Neanderthal buster yet? Pink heels and stockings are fine, but WE GOTS'TA KNOW SON ! Has that cool factor turned into fascination & true love yet? Be honest now, I know you like it. :what:

rswartsell
November 29, 2012, 10:54 PM
That's what my dream last night looked like!

"Even a man who is pure in heart
and says his prayers by night,
may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms
and the Autumn moon is bright."

Gotta go buy some garlic...silver for my bullet molds....where can I get a rosary?:what:

Guillermo
November 30, 2012, 12:20 AM
Ham,

U r right...I do like it.

But work has not allowed me the time to get to the range.

: (

probably Sunday

ElToro
December 1, 2012, 05:10 PM
i am not begrudging anyone for getting a deal. a pro seller is a pro seller and should know better and the seller kept his word and ate the 'loss' of not selling it for more. i just said i would not have ripped off a little old lady. since were showing pics,
here is my outdoorsman. it was mislabled a model 28. at a large local shop.
i have since traded it to my gun mentor, hes about my dads age and has no kids of his own and has given me some sweetheart deals on other guns. he had lusted after an OD more years than ive been on this earth so i let him have it for a kimber HS .22 rifle. with gold medal match 38 wadcutters this thing is sick accurate. i also gave a 5 inch HD to my dad and i have a 4 inch for myself. part of the thrill is hunting these guns down for sale and acquiring them. they are great shooter, i just shoot others more often. i have first dibs if my buddy ever wants to part with it. http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab266/tims_albums/100_0074.jpg

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