Accidentally baked my brass....


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Carbon_15
November 18, 2012, 10:17 AM
I had some wet .357 that I wanted to dry quickly before I droped them in the tumbler. Stuck em in the oven for 10 min....totally forgot about em for an hour at 325.
Are the safe to use??
Thanks

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Trent
November 18, 2012, 10:21 AM
NO.

This happened to me once.

Crimp them so they can't be re-used by another unsuspecting reloader, and recycle the stuff. (Several reloaders I know comb the recycle houses for brass...)

Source; personal experience. :)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=628446&highlight=wife+cooked+my+brass

W.E.G.
November 18, 2012, 10:28 AM
There is some debate as to how hot brass needs to get before it "goes bad."

Probably depends on a whole lot of factors that are impossible to judge.

My theory on brass is this:
If it "might" be bad, I treat it as bad.

There are many reasons not to fool around with bad brass.
In my case, I just don't have the time for it.

For future reference, DO NOT put brass in the oven.
If you are in that much hurry to get your reloading done, you made a bad decision (probably several) that led to the situation, long before you ever got to the point where you thought putting cartridge brass in the oven was necessary.

Jim Watson
November 18, 2012, 10:45 AM
325 OUGHT not to have annealed your brass throughout, but I would not take the chance.
The direct radiation from burner or element could have heated the brass hotter than that locally.

It is possible. I dry my wet tumbled black powder brass in the oven at 225 with no problems. Not at black powder pressures, anyhow.

FROGO207
November 18, 2012, 11:10 AM
I also would recycle them after smacking each one with a hammer/crush with pliers or such to render them unusable. The reasoning that got you into this situation should be reviewed as noted above. IF you insist on drying your brass in the oven make sure NOT TO overheat it. I have done this very thing in the past myself so you are not alone in this misfortune.

dprice3844444
November 18, 2012, 11:18 AM
hair dryer would have been better.some clothes dryers have a shelf that can be put in the middle to dry sneaks.that's why egg timers were invented

blarby
November 18, 2012, 11:22 AM
Changes start to occur in brass grain structure at 480 degrees fahrenheit.

Unless your stove is really badass, or in this case, just bad, you haven't done much.

If it really bothers you that you "overheated" them, heat them again for the same amount of time, and immediately dump all of them into a sink full of water.

You have now "annealed" your brass.

For those purists out there... I know this isn't annealing. It isn't hot enough, thats my point.

Please, send 'em to me.....don't destroy them.........

Take one, and expand it.

Seat a bullet in it.

Crimp it.

Remove the bullet.

Resize it.

If it endures all of these processes, you have just experienced the wonderment of modern metallurgy.

Your oven is not a foundry.

YMMV
@ Trent : Please explain what happened to you using this exact temperature. I'm very curious.

The Bushmaster
November 18, 2012, 11:25 AM
Buy a vibrater tumbler. This will solve the problem.

OilyPablo
November 18, 2012, 11:26 AM
I can't imagine 325F hurting cartridge brass. Cooled slowly or quenched quickly, the metallurgical properties didn't change at such a low temperature.

R.W.Dale
November 18, 2012, 11:48 AM
The real question is how much do you trust your ovens accuracy ? Brass is not a pie, its made of thin metal and as such can greatly exceed the ambient oven temp from absorption radiant heat from the elements. Your brass is now trash anyone claiming otherwise is simply being irresponsible with your face possibly getting blown off.

The moral of the story. Ovens are for Turkey and cookies not brass.
"Ruined brass" is dang near a tag search term for brass in the oven too long.





posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

Carbon_15
November 18, 2012, 12:10 PM
Blarby...KG Gunkoting a rifle at the time. Hence the time and temp

LightningMan
November 18, 2012, 12:26 PM
+1 on using a hair dryer, as I usually wash my Black Powder cartridges and dry them that way. The best way I know how is to dump the cases into a strainer, to let water escape, all the while shaking them and blow drying them at the same time. A good high output hair dryer can dry them in a short time. LM

918v
November 18, 2012, 12:33 PM
I wet tumble decapped brass. I shake out the water by flicking my wrist. I then dump them on a towel, roll them around, and the makes hem dry on the outside. I size them and by the time I'm done they dry on the inside.

Jasper1573
November 18, 2012, 12:58 PM
Optimal Case Temperatures for Successful Annealing
Brass is an excellent conductor of heat. A flame applied at any point on a case for a short time will cause the rest of the case to heat very quickly. There are several temperatures at which brass is affected. Also, the time the brass remains at a given temperature will have an effect. Brass which has been "work hardened" (sometimes referred to as "cold worked") is unaffected by temperatures (Fahrenheit) up to 482 degrees (F) regardless of the time it is left at this temperature. At about 495 degrees (F) some changes in grain structure begins to occur, although the brass remains about as hard as before--it would take a laboratory analysis to see the changes that take place at this temperature

I got this info from 6mmbr.com (http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html) in their article on annealing. I am no metallurgist, but I trust their information.

If in doubt...I would contact the brass manufacturer and ask their advice before trashing the brass.

Captaingyro
November 18, 2012, 01:36 PM
It's perfectly fine to dry brass in the oven. The secret is to turn the oven off prior to putting the brass in.

You only want enough heat to evaporate the water, and water boils at 212F, so you certainly don't need any more heat than that. Actually, you need a lot less. Try this:
Heat the oven to about 200F, which should only take about three minutes, then turn it off. Put the brass in, and it should be dry in about ten minutes.

Of course if you forget about it, it will just gradually return to room temp, and be waiting for you when you get around to it.

Etkini
November 18, 2012, 02:08 PM
I wouldn't see a problem in using them. I've dried brass at 325F and left it in for 30-60 minutes with no ill effects before I had a tumbler and used Dawn\water to clean my cases. I realized shortly after that I only needed to set it to 225F to let it dry, though.

I never shut the oven off either, and my brass was still going strong after doing that at least 2-3 times.

jcwit
November 18, 2012, 02:17 PM
Every time I have to question myself or say to myself, If I'm real careful I can away with doing this, its definitely not the thing to do.

Last time I thought the above I ripped, not cut but ripped, 2 fingers out of my hand.

Brass is not that expensive or that hard to get.

GLOOB
November 18, 2012, 02:28 PM
Really don't get the hysteria here. The 357 case does not contain pressure. The cylinder does. So you haven't annealed the cases, and even if you did, it still wouldn't blow up your gun. Might as well try one.

I've accidentally baked brass overnight at 275, and I'm still shooting it. 223 and semiauto pistol brass.

The WORST THING that could happen if the cases were truly annealed (which these weren't)... well, I guess the casehead might expand enough to let the primers loose and you could get gas cutting on your recoil shield. And even if you didn't take the time to notice this gradual/cumulative problem, it would be pretty obvious when you try to reload the cases and they no longer hold a primer.

If it were an autoloader with crappy casehead support, then that's another story.

leadchucker
November 18, 2012, 02:44 PM
If the brass had reached a temperature where hardness had been affected, wouldn't you be able to notice a color change in it?

GLOOB
November 18, 2012, 03:05 PM
If the brass had reached a temperature where hardness had been affected, wouldn't you be able to notice a color change in it?
Wet, untumbled brass does not come out of an overnight in the oven looking normal, I'll tell you that. Mine came out looking like crap. Dark, dull, and some cruddy stuff looking almost like rust on the pieces lying on the bottom of the pan. At first, I almost mistook this for annealing.

I took a piece out and crushed the case mouth with pliers. Did the same to a case that hadn't been through the oven. Felt the same to me. Tried to crush the web, and couldn't. Called it good.

barstoolguru
November 18, 2012, 03:35 PM
325 deg for an hour will cook a turkey but not brass. If this will damage brass all my aluminum cook wear is trash. The temp of a fired shell will reach that, reload a couple of shells and shoot them and see what happens.

918v
November 18, 2012, 03:58 PM
Changes start to occur in brass grain structure at 480 degrees fahrenheit. To properly anneal brass, the temperature needs to be at 650 degrees F. for several minutes

http://annealingmachines.com/how_to_anneal

Trent
November 18, 2012, 04:32 PM
YMMV
@ Trent : Please explain what happened to you using this exact temperature. I'm very curious.

The brass turned wicked purple with funky swirl effects, on the side facing the heating element. Brass was in there for maybe 5 minutes with the element on full blast, as my wife preheated the oven, opened it, and found the brass sitting on the shelf....

Rollis R. Karvellis
November 18, 2012, 04:36 PM
You could set the brass upright on top of the stove, or even in a window for a few hour's. Granted this is not the fastest way to do it, but the worry is all but eliminated.

Texan Scott
November 18, 2012, 04:46 PM
Captain Gyro with SCIENCE for the win! Sir, you saved me a LOT of typing LOL. :p

oldandslow
November 18, 2012, 06:43 PM
c-15 11/19/12

Should be no problems with an hour at 325 degrees, well below the annealing temperature. I once did the same thing with 100 Federal nickel plated cases. I tracked their failure rate through 12 reloading cycles- I had three case mouth cracks over the 12 cycles with 97 still reloadable. I got tired of tracking them so I stopped keeping count. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow

splattergun
November 18, 2012, 09:20 PM
325 deg for an hour will cook a turkey but not brass. If this will damage brass all my aluminum cook wear is trash. The temp of a fired shell will reach that, reload a couple of shells and shoot them and see what happens.
I would not think of eating a turkey that's been in a 325 deg oven for only an hour. :what: It takes a bit longer than that. But I agree that brass ought to be fine for a .357 to consume.

wally
November 18, 2012, 09:29 PM
The real question is how much do you trust your ovens accuracy ? Brass is not a pie

Unless your wife burns everything she puts in the oven I'd not worry about it. If you are "afraid" of the brass, send it to me!

1hobie
November 18, 2012, 09:53 PM
When in doubt, throw it out.:)

Cosmoline
November 18, 2012, 09:54 PM
Remember that firearm brass gets hot enough to turn soft in the chamber during firing. I don't think the oven will do much more than discolor it.

straight-shooter
November 18, 2012, 10:18 PM
After i wet tumble I rub the brass around in a towel. Then I put it in a mesh laundry bag. Hang it over the dryer door and close it. Run on medium heat for 35 minutes and it's dry.

eam3clm@att.net
November 19, 2012, 09:37 PM
My Speer manual actually says not to dry brass in an oven. If you are worried you might load them light for plinking ammo. I dont through my 38 special brass away until the duct tape no longer holds the case together from the case's split (just kidding)

jcwit
November 19, 2012, 09:43 PM
My Speer manual actually says not to dry brass in an oven. If you are worried you might load them light for plinking ammo.

Most of my owners manuals say not to shoot reloads! Now what do I do?

MachIVshooter
November 19, 2012, 09:53 PM
I always use the oven to dry larger batches, since I wash them in hot soapy water rather than wiping each case.

I leave them in for about 2 hours @ 160. They come out totally dry and not at all discolored from water evaporation.

blarby
November 19, 2012, 09:54 PM
Most of my owners manuals say not to shoot reloads! Now what do I do?

Well, if you must insist on continuing to abuse them so, I guess I'll have to come and take them from you.....

jcwit
November 19, 2012, 09:57 PM
I'll welcome you to Indiana, Elkhart area.

eam3clm@att.net
November 19, 2012, 10:02 PM
Im not saying that it will harm the brass, Im only passing on what the book said. If you load the cases, inspect them like normal after you shoot them. I would keep the cases grouped together in case they start to fail early.

HOWARD J
November 19, 2012, 10:24 PM
@ jcwit Welcome -----

You still shooting that rock salt ??
Just got my eyeballs finished today----2 weeks maybe I can see to shoot again-------WOW

jcwit
November 19, 2012, 10:36 PM
Rock salt?

I truly hope that your eye surgey (?) went well and you will be back in business. I'm 69 and so far no problems YET!

Best

Fishslayer
November 19, 2012, 10:39 PM
Buy a vibrater tumbler. This will solve the problem.

I wash my range pickups with Lemi Shine before tumbling to reduce lead dust and keep my media cleaner. It also seems to get the insides cleaner and greatly reduces time in the tumbler.

During the summer I use a screen in the back yard. Wintertime I set the oven as low as it will go. 125-150 f IIRC. Even at that low setting it gets pretty hot & dries quickly.

The wife's drier has the shelf somebody mentioned. Hadn't ever thought of that. I'll give it a try next time.

HOWARD J
November 19, 2012, 10:39 PM
I thought rock salt was a good welcome for unwelcome guests

jcwit
November 19, 2012, 10:53 PM
You are serious, right?

ArchAngelCD
November 20, 2012, 12:07 AM
Just a note, 325 degrees is in no way needed to dry brass. If you must, anything over 175 is overkill IMO.

Certaindeaf
November 20, 2012, 08:51 AM
sounds half baked to me

jim8115
November 20, 2012, 04:35 PM
Before I had a tumbler, i used to dry all my brass in the oven, at 250 degrees....thousands of rounds , 38,357,40,45 colt,with no problems..and yes, more than one I forgot and baked them all night


JIM

GLOOB
November 21, 2012, 11:08 PM
Just a note, 325 degrees is in no way needed to dry brass. If you must, anything over 175 is overkill IMO.
Well, if you get the temp over boiling, the drying goes along a lot faster. Why stop at 175 when you can go to 225-250, safely?

Steve A
November 22, 2012, 05:54 AM
The easiest way to dry it is in a vibratory tumbler. We clean ours with the stainless pin method and enough water is removed by seperating the pins from the cases to then put them in the tumbler with corncob and Nu-Finish and dry and finish polish at the same time.

MEHavey
November 22, 2012, 11:36 AM
It takes a looooooong time for brass to anneal in the mid 300's (if at all).

Since a 357Mag** revolver's "chamber" supports the brass in the cylinder (for the
safety factor), press ahead. Check for primer pocket looseness afterward (for the
brass factor).







** Not 357Sig

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