Tiny .22 LR Semi-Autos


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Janos Dracwlya
November 18, 2012, 10:14 AM
Just for novelty, I'm looking for a really small .22 LR semi-auto. I've looked at Astra Cubs, but they seem to only come in .22 short (and .25).

Is there any .22 LR auto out there that is around the same size as a Cub?

Thanks.

(P.S. - I already have a Beretta Mod. 21, which I like a lot)

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Onmilo
November 18, 2012, 10:41 AM
Sterling
Bauer
FTL (Copy of Bauer/Colt Vest Pocket)

charlie fox
November 18, 2012, 11:38 AM
There aren't as many out there anymore, mostly because they were unreliable. The best pocket sized. 22 now is the Beretta Model 21. Taurus makes a copy, but I'd stick with the Beretta.

kokapelli
November 18, 2012, 12:57 PM
Don't know if you can find one of these anymore but this Model 2213 S&W 22lr has always been one of my favorite pistols. It has very good three dot sights, is all metal, a nice single action trigger with a thumb safety, slide lock back on last round and the magazine release is recessed in the front of the grip.
I have it pictured next to my PM9 for size comparison.
http://ompldr.org/tZ2N0Ng (http://ompldr.org/vZ2N0Ng)

usp9
November 18, 2012, 09:48 PM
The Walther TPH is still available and is quite small, especially thin, yet reliable and accurate.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/ripley16/Pistols/Current%20Pistols/Currentpistols009.jpg

Swing
November 18, 2012, 09:49 PM
IIRC, Bernardelli made an insanely small auto back in the day.

VA27
November 18, 2012, 10:43 PM
IIRC, the Bauer was never made in LR.

The Bernardelli was made in Short and Long, but I don't think it was ever imported in LR. Iver Johnson built a licensed copy of the Bernardelli in LR, but I've never actually seen one, only pictures. A Turkish company bought up Bernardelli and at least listed the LR as the Salsmar (sp?) in LR. Again, I've only seen pix. They are, as Swing said, insanely small.

The FTL AutoNine/Wilkinson Sherry is about the size of a 1908 Colt Vest Pocket. PSA (U.S. built, licensed Browning Baby clone) once threatened to build the little feller in 22 Short, but I don't think they ever did.

The Beretta 21 is bigger than the Astra Cub, and the Smith and Wesson 2213 is even larger. You might look for a Smith and Wesson Model 61 'Escort'. It is an earlier and smaller version of the 2213. Made in 61, 61-1, 61-2 and 61-3 variations, in blue and nickle plated.

weblance
November 18, 2012, 10:51 PM
I dont know what you call TINY, but my Taurus PLY-22 has been excellent.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/weblance/CCWPics040fixedMedium.jpg

MICHAEL T
November 19, 2012, 01:23 AM
The Astra in 22 short is a great little pistol.. 22 LR wasted powder in that small of a pistol 22 short will come close in FPS . I have one in 22 short and it a fun gun to shoot Will match my 21 Berettas plinking

bannockburn
November 19, 2012, 06:17 AM
I have an Astra Cub in .22 Short and it is one neat little gun. The amount of work that went into making such a tiny semi-auto is amazing. I have seen the Bernadelli VB in .22LR and it is incredibly small, but the one I saw was priced way beyond what I would want to pay for one. I also had an FTL Auto Nine when they first came out and while very nicely made, it proved to be very unreliable and I eventually traded it in on something else.

Janos Dracwlya
November 19, 2012, 09:27 AM
Thanks.

Looks like I may just end up buying a Cub, though I was hoping to find something in a similar size in LR (cheaper ammunition).

This is just something for my personal amusement, not a defensive gun or anything like that.

I've looked at the Taurus PLY-22 and thought it amazing for it's lightness, but it is still large.

The Walther TPH is a beautiful gun, but it's more than I can really justify spending for something like this.

Onmilo
November 19, 2012, 04:57 PM
If you can justify the outlay, the Walther TPH won't let you down.
Probably the finest small ,22.,25 pistol ever produced

wally
November 19, 2012, 07:33 PM
There aren't as many out there anymore, mostly because they were unreliable. The best pocket sized. 22 now is the Beretta Model 21

Yup! That is why JMB invented the .25ACP, when even he couldn't make the little .22 lr pistols reliable.

Ledgehammer
November 20, 2012, 09:17 AM
How's the trigger pull on that ply-22?

Certaindeaf
November 20, 2012, 10:06 AM
^
I was looking at those too.. last week I handled one and the trigger seemed plenty good for a DAO. It's got a magazine safety also. ug
I may well get the Beretta.. I've got a hankering for a small fun gun and reloading for the .25 isn't really fun.

Kiln
November 20, 2012, 04:17 PM
How's the trigger pull on that ply-22?
I can't speak for the poster that question was directed at but it is definately a decent DAO trigger.

It is long and has a long reset but the trigger pull isn't very heavy so it feels nice and doesn't hinder your accuracy much (can't speak for the inherent accuracy of the gun, strictly going by the fact that it is easy to pull the trigger and keep the sites still too). Better than the trigger on my Kel Tec.

cwl1862
November 20, 2012, 11:31 PM
I have a jennings J22 thats totally reliable, and quite accurate for such a little gun. and not all that expensive either.

Certaindeaf
November 20, 2012, 11:59 PM
^
I and my friends all had those a long time ago.. they were pretty awesome. Always worked and accurate.

weblance
November 21, 2012, 01:25 AM
How's the trigger pull on that ply-22?

Its pretty decent. Its certainly lighter than my 21a in Double Action. You have to be careful though, if you stage it all the way to the end, every once in a great while, you will get a misfire with some ammo. Thats why I bought the Beretta, but each has its strong points. The Taurus is $100+ cheaper than the Beretta. Other than the trigger, they are very similar, Except the Taurus is 8+1, the Beretta is 7+1

MedWheeler
November 21, 2012, 12:46 PM
I have a jennings J22 thats totally reliable, and quite accurate for such a little gun. and not all that expensive either.

I and my friends all had those a long time ago.. they were pretty awesome. Always worked and accurate

I bought mine in 1987, and had a lot of fun with it for several years after that. Always fired and was pretty accurate. Only issue was a self-field-strip that occurred during an extended session with CCI Stingers, before I learned (well, exactly when I learned) not to use such hot ammunition in those guns. I still have mine, just haven't played much with it in many years..

Incidentally, I also own, in the way of small .22 pistols, the quite-heavy Phoenix HP22A and the Taurus PT-22. Both are very pleasant performers.

Analogkid
November 21, 2012, 01:25 PM
I have several of the Jennings j22s and a few of the newer versions of them, the Jimenez ja22

I don't shoot the Jennings 22s all that much but I run the crap out of the Jimenez guns I have in 22lr. They really like the hot high quality ammo but will run on cci blazers with a stove pipe here and there. I'm for sure one of them has went through 1500 rounds of blazer since I got it. They are up close plinking guns but if you do the standard fluff and buff keep them clean they run really well.

And they are cheap enough to get and fun to tinker with.

Kiln
November 22, 2012, 04:08 PM
Yeah I've heard good things about the Jimenez JA22 in a few places on the web. Only downside is that you've basically got to stick to expensive ammo to get them to run well.

There are guys over on the Bryco/Jennings/Jimenez forums that have ran 10,000+ rounds through them before having parts failures. That was with high velocity ammo too.

Alot of people who speak of them flying apart haven't even seen one in person let alone fired one. For instance I read several back and forth posts where one guy claimed that the slide rails of his J22 broke right off...the J22's design doesn't use slide rails. :scrutiny:

Moptop
November 22, 2012, 10:43 PM
I have a Phoenix HP-22 that I bought a couple of years ago and it has operated flawlessly for me. Mine has the 3" barrel but you can also get in a kit with a interchangable 5" barrel. Yes, it's not an expensive pistol having a zamac frame, but it is very reliable. It' also has a lifetime warranty. Can't beat it for the $139 I paid for it IMHO.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=163917&d=1336163235

Onmilo
November 24, 2012, 02:19 AM
kokapelli has it spot on if you want a cheap pocket .22
I paid $120 for this S&W 2214 and buying & fitting the wood grips was another $30 outlay.
It works reliably and is quite accurate.
Magazines are a bitch to find now but I have a bunch & full size M41 magazines work just fine if you don't mind them sticking out the bottom they gain you an extra four shots.
http://www.fototime.com/0D22540207EDB68/standard.jpg

Certaindeaf
November 24, 2012, 09:13 AM
^
That's a sawed off 422. Good gun. Here's a 4" 422. They make them in 6" also.

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.4587214863861133&pid=1.7&w=192&h=146&c=7&rs=1

jrdolall
November 24, 2012, 09:28 AM
Jennings J22 finally gave up on me about a year ago after 1,000s of rounds and I have not bothered getting it fixed. Repair would be more than a new gun.
Phoenix HP22, pretty small but also heavy, has been very reliable but I have only had it less than a year. Maybe 1,500 rounds of Blazer through it with a few stovepipes.

NeveraVictimAgain
November 24, 2012, 09:41 AM
A few years ago someone posted here that the life of a Beretta Tomcat was only 3,000 rounds. Is that true of the model 21 also?

Those of you who own a 21, has it lasted a long time? Do you have an idea of a round count?

Thank you so much!

Certaindeaf
November 24, 2012, 10:23 AM
I think it was just the .32.

CZguy
November 24, 2012, 01:22 PM
Hey Onmilo,

Are those 422 grips that you cut down? They look nice.

Onmilo
November 24, 2012, 02:57 PM
CZguy Yep & Thanks

Kiln
November 25, 2012, 12:39 AM
Jennings J22 finally gave up on me about a year ago after 1,000s of rounds and I have not bothered getting it fixed. Repair would be more than a new gun.
Phoenix HP22, pretty small but also heavy, has been very reliable but I have only had it less than a year. Maybe 1,500 rounds of Blazer through it with a few stovepipes.
Parts are still cheap and readily available at several places online. Numrich still has quite a few parts for them depending on what broke.

jrdolall
November 26, 2012, 09:46 AM
Parts are still cheap and readily available at several places online. Numrich still has quite a few parts for them depending on what broke
I know but it is one of those that is not real high on my list of priorities. It was a tackle box type of gun that I replaced with another tackle box gun. One of these days I will take it apart and fix it up for the heck of it.

Kiln
November 26, 2012, 02:56 PM
I know but it is one of those that is not real high on my list of priorities. It was a tackle box type of gun that I replaced with another tackle box gun. One of these days I will take it apart and fix it up for the heck of it.
I understand but still can't see the sense in having one broken when it can be fixed in 5 minutes with $10 worth of parts.

GEM
November 26, 2012, 04:19 PM
My Pt-22 was a horror, it went bye. Now I have a tiny NAA 22S revolver for grins. That's tiny.

CZ57
November 26, 2012, 06:47 PM
I also have the Astra Cub in .22 Short. You can't make the little pistol malfunction. I can fire and empty a magazine as fast as I can pull the trigger. Personally, I think the .22 Short functions better than .22 LR in pistols of this size class. ;)

knifestuff
November 26, 2012, 07:20 PM
IMHO, the Auto Nine 22 LR was the finest .22 LR semi-auto ever made--very ccurate and very concealable. Mine is very reliable. They can still be found from time to time.

Sushigaijin
November 26, 2012, 10:00 PM
I have an FTL auto nine .22, very cool mouse gun. All machined steel, accurate and good capacity for something that will fit in a cigarette box.

But I can't find a replacement recoil or mainspring. and without those, the old springs cause a lot of stovepipes and light strikes. I'd say get something you can get parts for.

And if anyone knows where to get new springs, let me know :evil:

Certaindeaf
November 27, 2012, 08:30 AM
^
I'd call Wolf. Being in the business, they might be able to find out the original strength and then given the old spring for specs, provide a new one.

chicharrones
November 27, 2012, 11:24 AM
A few years ago someone posted here that the life of a Beretta Tomcat was only 3,000 rounds. Is that true of the model 21 also?

Those of you who own a 21, has it lasted a long time? Do you have an idea of a round count?

I think that depends on how many jams a person has in the Bobcat. If the Bobcat is fired only a few magazines between cleaning, that will reduce jamming. If not, cartridges can get jammed in between the breech face and chamber which can lead to bad dings in the chamber. Once those dings are there, extraction jams will actually increase (in my experience).

I've replaced many parts on my Bobcat through the years and due to my ignorance of how to treat the gun (pre-internet) I beat the snot out of it in much less than 3000 rounds. It has more damaged to it than just the chamber. Other parts in the gun, since they are small, are not as strong as they would be in a full sized gun. Such as the double action sear and pins that hold parts in place within the frame and slide.

chicharrones
November 27, 2012, 11:31 AM
I've seen a few of these Norton TP-70 .22 LR pistols and wondered if they would make a fun little shooter or not.

http://www.armchairgunshow.com/ot57-pix/hcpx-03.jpg

From - http://www.armchairgunshow.com/otsJX_semi_auto_pistols.htm

CZguy
November 27, 2012, 12:26 PM
I've seen a few of these Norton TP-70 .22 LR pistols and wondered if they would make a fun little shooter or not.

They look interesting. But, I don't know anything about them.

aarondhgraham
November 28, 2012, 01:11 PM
Have you seen a S&W Escort?

It's the smallest .22 semi that I know of.

Click here please (Have you seen a S&W Escort?).

And here as well (http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/SWE/swe.html).

Aarond

.

momano
November 28, 2012, 02:19 PM
I think Ruger would hit another home run if they would build a .22 LCP

kokapelli
November 28, 2012, 02:38 PM
There is the Frommer Lilliput
http://home.comcast.net/~j3rdinf/ww2/lilliput.22.jpg

CZguy
November 28, 2012, 05:52 PM
I think Ruger would hit another home run if they would build a .22 LCP

I would like the small size, but not Ruger's DAO trigger.

This thread has some interesting small pistol's in it that I wasn't aware of.

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