LB possiable problem


PDA






Blue68f100
November 19, 2012, 03:42 PM
A friend of mine has a LB Stinger (SS) that the slide is very very hard to move when in battery. He has 2000 rounds through it now and it's still as tight as it was when new. I put the nose on a set of bathroom scales with a hole for the barrel to go through and started pushing. It took an average of 30 lbs before the slide moved and this is without the RS installed. I know this is probably not right so I started looking for the cause. I pushed the slide forward till resistance was felt this is where it stopped, 1/16" short. Even allowing the RS to drive it forward from 1/2" back it will not drive the slide all the forward, lacks about 1/64"-1/32". The bushing to barrel moves with just a tad of resistance and shows no indication of bind.

http://imageshack.us/a/img703/3657/lbfailuretogoinbattery.jpg

I had painted the slide stop pin and the bottom of the barrel lug/feet with a marker looking for contact. This is what I found, sorry for the out of focus on the slide stop pin. But it still show the contact. The contact area has been wore flat and is 0.003" below the pin's dia. OD of 0.199" . If I install a new EGW slide stop which has a OD of 0.200" the load required to move the slide jumps up to 50 lbs. with no RS.

http://imageshack.us/a/img708/6528/lbslidestop.jpg

The contact on the bottom of the barrel lug/feet.

The best I can measure the link is some where around 0.285" which seams odd but I do not have a accurate way to measure it. But would explain for the short slide lugs and binding.

http://imageshack.us/a/img201/7579/lowerbarrellugfeetconta.jpg

The pin is almost too tight to move/rotate when the slide is fully forward. This got me to wondering what was making this overly tight. So I dug out my plastic gauge out and laid it on the #1 lug (first lug to slide) and moved the slide fully forward to get a reading. What I found surprised me. The plastic gauge only went to 0.002" and it was 2 times that (flatten) so my guess is metal to metal contact. I then used my calipers to measure the depth of the lug slot in the slide it measure 0.045" at the front of the lug (closes to breach). I measured the Colt Commander I have and it measures 0.065" . Looking at the LB it looks like it was sanded down. I though I read some where 0.050" is the bare min. The lug is starting to show signs of rounding off, not good. I was unable to get a photo to show this, but the edge is no longer sharp like the others.

http://imageshack.us/a/img231/9536/lbslidelugs2.jpg

LB next to the Colt.

http://imageshack.us/a/img208/1516/lbvscolt.jpg

Looking for some guidance here. This gun is only 5 mo old (2k rounds) but it should not be having these kind of problem on $2k gun.

All feed back is welcome. Just trying to figure out what to recommend to him. If it was mine it would be going back for the fact the lug engagement is below the 0.050" min if this is a good number.

For got to say this is a 45acp...

If you enjoyed reading about "LB possiable problem" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
highlander 5
November 19, 2012, 03:58 PM
If he bought it new send it back to Les Baer first and let him fix it. They must have some kind of warrantee on the pistol. If he can't help you then I'd send it out to someone else to repair. After that I'd be leery to buy anythng from LB again.

Blue68f100
November 19, 2012, 04:06 PM
That was my recommendation to him. But from what he tells me LB is very reluctant to do anything on his guns. And is hard to convince him that there is a problem to get a RMA.

BBBBill
November 20, 2012, 11:48 AM
...I had painted the slide stop pin and the bottom of the barrel lug/feet with a marker looking for contact. This is what I found... The contact area has been wore flat and is 0.003" below the pin's dia. OD of 0.199" . If I install a new EGW slide stop which has a OD of 0.200" the load required to move the slide jumps up to 50 lbs. with no RS...

The best I can measure the link is some where around 0.285" which seams odd but I do not have a accurate way to measure it. But would explain for the short slide lugs and binding.

The pin is almost too tight to move/rotate when the slide is fully forward. This got me to wondering what was making this overly tight. So I dug out my plastic gauge out and laid it on the #1 lug (first lug to slide) and moved the slide fully forward to get a reading. What I found surprised me. The plastic gauge only went to 0.002" and it was 2 times that (flatten) so my guess is metal to metal contact. I then used my calipers to measure the depth of the lug slot in the slide it measure 0.045" at the front of the lug (closes to breach)... Looking at the LB it looks like it was sanded down. I though I read some where 0.050" is the bare min. The lug is starting to show signs of rounding off, not good. I was unable to get a photo to show this, but the edge is no longer sharp like the others.

Looks like it needs to go back to LB. A few thoughts - The slide stop looks like it was fitted "old school". That was fairly common years ago and some smiths still do that. It does a couple things. First, the major diameter is left large to better fit the frame holes. The middle is relieved to fit the barrel lugs more closely allowing for longer lasting fit and a bit more dwell time with the barrel locked to the slide. If that was their goal, it appears to me from the description that they stopped just a little too soon with their fitting.

Calipers are not a good way to measure holes. You will never get a very accurate reading. To get closer to correct, remove the link from the barrel, measure from the edge of one hole to the other using just the very tips of the caliper jaws. Then measure the holes the same way. Take half of each hole diameter and add that to the first measurement(hole to hole). That will get you closer to correct, but still not best accuracy.

The slide stop should be difficult to turn when in battery, especially with the flat on the lugs and the top surface of the slide stop. Not sure I understand how you used the Plastigage. .050" does seem shallow and would be marginal for accumulation of firing residue. To more accurately measure slide lug depth, get a small ball bearing that will fit down into the lug slot. Use the stem of your calipers to measure down to the ball bearing, the subtract the bearing diameter from your measurement. Repeat the process measuring to the top of the lug itself. The difference in those two is the lug depth. Most fols are comfortable with .043" -.048" actual lug engagement. The lug slots on the slide could be .060" and still only have .030" actual engagement if the barrel is improperly fit.

Blue68f100
November 20, 2012, 03:15 PM
BBBill, Thanks for responding.

I used calipers to measure the slide lug depth 0.045" not plastic gauge. I though I read some where in Jerry Kuhnhausen Shop Manual that the slide lugs should not be under 0.050", I later found out it's actually 0.055". I used the plastic gauge to measure the clearance between the slide and barrel #1 lug under full lock condition, <0.002". I picked up some lower range plastic gauge (0.003"-0.001") to measure the tighter clearances. But I'm guessing its metal to metal contact. You can see where they took a lug file and brushed the topped lightly, but did not remove the coating that was on it.

I will try to get a more accurate measurement of the link. The best I can tell the link is not being used to force the barrel up. There is not any noticeable rub marks on the slide stop pin when I marked the pin. All the force is being applied by the lower lug/feet against the pin.

We shot it today and noticed after 100 rounds the slide was not going into full battery, sticking out the back about 0.050" . This is by releasing the slide lock or sling shot method. Close enough to battery it would still fire. Also the firing pin was hitting so close to the primer edge it was splitting the primer along the edge. This was with Federal's SP rounds on the market now. This is definitely not good since the market is shifting that way due to the Non toxic primer.

The link had a #4 stamped on it.

Blue68f100
November 26, 2012, 04:09 PM
My friend talked to LB this morning and he basically said nothing was wrong and shoot Large Primer ammo. He acted like he did not know that they were making SP 45acp. I guess what they say about him is true.

On a good note a gunsmith that used to work for LB (owns his own custom shop now) is going to take a look at the pistol and see what can be done. Which is very kind of him.

I will never buy a LB gun after what I have seen on this one.

If you enjoyed reading about "LB possiable problem" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!