What's YOUR Most Easily Pointing Handgun?


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SharpsDressedMan
November 19, 2012, 08:56 PM
I used to have a Remington Model 51 .380, that was advertised to be "self-aiming" in old advertisements. It was truly a great point & shoot gun. I also, for some reason, can get a Beretta 92FS to almost "point" for me; more easily than a CZ75, 1911, or BHP, etc. The Beretta is a handful, but just seems to POINT well. What works for you guys?

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beeenbag
November 19, 2012, 09:06 PM
Glock 19 for me.

In all fairness, I have pulled the trigger on glocks way more than any other firearm, so it just makes sense that it would feel more natural to me.

I really like the way a BHP points too though.

LeonCarr
November 19, 2012, 09:09 PM
Glock 17

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

M2 Carbine
November 19, 2012, 09:14 PM
Off hand I can't say but several years ago when I came home with my new CZ40P and shot the first magazine load I thought this gun seems to point well for me. So I tried shooting 6 shots with my eyes closed.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/CZ40P10ydseyesclosed.jpg



The LC9 also did pretty good when I first got it.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/LC97ydseyesclosed.jpg



Even the S&W J Frame points OK for me.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/eyesclosedJFrame7yards.jpg



Glock, not so good for me.

MutinousDoug
November 19, 2012, 09:19 PM
I used to think the S&W model 19 was the best, most naturally pointing handgun I'd ever fired. Now, I can't shoot a K frame without at least a Taylor-T grip at anything beyond about 10 yds and hit a 5" bull regularly unless I'm in a well lighted pistol range.

I took up Bullseye (Conventional pistol) years ago where I shot a Ruger Mark II gov't model and a 1911-A1 for 8-9 years. Now those point (al)most naturally for me. ( still have to look at the front sight at least).

Just shot a Glock for the 1st time yesterday and although I don't "like" the trigger, I like it a lot better than the S&W double action trigger pull stack.

WoodchuckAssassin
November 19, 2012, 09:20 PM
Full size 1911. Anyone else?

MedWheeler
November 19, 2012, 09:23 PM
Hard to say for me but what did amaze me recently was how natural my Heritage Rough Rider seemed to point and shoot my first day with it. It's my first S/A revolver, and I really thought it would "point" differently since I'm so used to my bigger D/A revolvers and my other pistols.
Another that surprised me its first day at the range with "point-ability" is my Bersa Thunder 380.

beag_nut
November 19, 2012, 09:32 PM
My Ruger Mark I, circa 1972, 6" barrel. Thing points itself. So well that I became NRA Distinguished Expert.

guyfromohio
November 19, 2012, 09:47 PM
M9 for me, but (and it pains me to write it) my Gen 4 G19 is right there with it.

bigfatdave
November 19, 2012, 09:54 PM
1911, officer's size is even better than fullsize (probably a "more practice" effect)
Also guns like a 1911 in grip shape and angle (colt 1903, Tokarev, XD pistols)

Closely followed by Ruger's traditional target pistol grip (mkI-II-III, but not 22/45) ... which is strange, but that's how it feels and that's the story the targets tell me.

Beretta and Glock near the bottom of the list - they simply do not fit, and most revolvers feel too front-heavy to get a natural "point" going on with.

sirgilligan
November 19, 2012, 09:58 PM
Browning Hi-Power and CZ 85B.

Shimitup
November 19, 2012, 10:00 PM
For me Ruger Mk1 or 1911.

holdencm9
November 19, 2012, 10:38 PM
Full size 1911, followed by 92FS.

beatledog7
November 19, 2012, 10:43 PM
It's very close between a S&W 642 and a CZ-75. Two guns couldn't be any more different, but they both work for me.

TurkeyOak
November 19, 2012, 10:45 PM
Ruger 22/45.

barnbwt
November 19, 2012, 11:00 PM
Most Easily Pointing Handgun

Whatever I practice with the most--pretty sure we could all get equally used to a Howdah pistol or a Mac 10 if we held/shot with it a bunch;). For me, it's a CZ52, hillariously enough. Horribly slapping heavy trigger, and odd/long grip profile and angle, but I've plinked with it so much recently pointing it's become second nature.

(not to be a Grandma (or a judgemental jerk), but you shoot with your eyes closed?:eek: I guess I think it's okay if you triple (make that quadruple) check the range immediately before, and only shoot for a couple seconds? It's still kinda like seeing how long you can track a straight road in your car with your eyes closed before you feel the rumble strips, though...just makes me uneasy:o. I guess I'm just not confident enough in my aim return to send lead downrange unseen:o)

TCB

chris in va
November 19, 2012, 11:26 PM
My CZ P01. Instantly on target.

The worst was a Glock 21sf. My match scored plummeted with that thing.

Snag
November 19, 2012, 11:44 PM
Number one is a Blackhawk revolver, number two is a 1911.

sfed
November 19, 2012, 11:57 PM
SIG SP2022, does it pretty much all by itself.

CraigC
November 20, 2012, 12:13 AM
#1 A Colt 1860, cartridge or percussion or 1871-1872 Open Top with the Army grip frame.

#2 A Colt 1851, SAA or Ruger Single Six/Blackhawk with the XR3 grip frame.

#3 A 1911 with proper thickness, smooth grips.

#4 I do pretty well with a S&W K or N-frame with proper grips.

The steep grip angle of the Glock or Ruger MK-series does not agree with me. Even though I grew up shooting them.

M2 Carbine
November 20, 2012, 12:44 AM
(not to be a Grandma (or a judgemental jerk), but you shoot with your eyes closed? I guess I think it's okay if you triple (make that quadruple) check the range immediately before, and only shoot for a couple seconds?
My ranges (2) on my ground, so I pretty much do whatever I want.:)

Just for the heck of it I shot and passed (a practice round) of the Texas Concealed Carry qualification course with my eyes closed.
I use to say the qualification was so easy you could pass with your eyes closed. So I tried it and passed.


Actually years back I used to allow most anyone to shoot here but we (Americans) have become such irresponsible sue crazy jerks, that I'm right picky about who I allow to shoot here anymore.
Now, mostly just friends and people I'm teaching or helping with their shooting shoot here now.

Too bad to. It's a nice range going unused much of the time.
These kids find the 1911 points well for them.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Natat52yards.jpg

HDCamel
November 20, 2012, 12:48 AM
Single Action Army.
Hands down.

Dr.Rob
November 20, 2012, 01:06 AM
Luger.

Apachedriver
November 20, 2012, 01:14 AM
1911s / Ruger 22/45s / HK USPs .45

I found 1911s to be the easiest pointing and most accurate for me. Over time I found that the HK USPs and Ruger 22/45s(hence the name 22/45) match the 1911 grip angles and work just as easily for pointing. The differences in grip thickness doesn't affect me negatively.

harrygunner
November 20, 2012, 02:37 AM
1911 for first place with me. A Sig P229 is a close second.

Rexster
November 20, 2012, 05:11 AM
Several are about tied: S&W K/L/N, GP100, 1911, SAA. Most of these I learned to shoot so long ago, it is difficult to remember if they were "natural" or more learned, but I first fired an SAA-pattern sixgun in the late 1990's, actually a USFA Single Action, and it pointed very naturally for me.

I should note that the pointability of the S&W revolvers does depend upon the grip panels/stocks mounted on the grip frame. With the 1911, a flat mainspring housing makes for better pointing, though that may be more learned than natural.

Third-Generation Glocks point OK for me, whereas most previous-generation Glocks do not.

Inebriated
November 20, 2012, 05:23 AM
Glock 19

76shuvlinoff
November 20, 2012, 05:50 AM
I love my 1911 and my XD but I am always surprised by the accuracy of my little LCP at 6-7 yards considering what they put on it for sights. I would say it points pretty well for me.

kyletx1911
November 20, 2012, 06:17 AM
1911 for me

WC145
November 20, 2012, 08:06 AM
1911 and round butt S&W N frame snubbies with Pachmayr Compac grips, pick 'em up and point and the sights are lined up without even trying.

otasan56
November 20, 2012, 08:14 AM
My Glock Model 17 3rd gen 9x19.

Mp7
November 20, 2012, 08:23 AM
...

the Luger.

grip angle and nonexistant weight at the muzzle.

MaterDei
November 20, 2012, 08:32 AM
Browning Buck Mark

Madcap_Magician
November 20, 2012, 09:17 AM
S&W and Ruger double-action revolvers point very naturally for me. The Beretta 92. And really that's about it.

C0untZer0
November 20, 2012, 09:19 AM
When I first held an HK P7M8 in a Leesville LA, Walmart, the man behind the gun counter advised me to buy a Beretta 92, he told me it felt better in the hand and it was $50.00 cheaper.

I held both guns and thought just the opposite, the P7M8 felt right in my hand - even gripping the squeeze cocker.

I'm probably in the minority, but the P7M8 has always been the best naturally pointing gun for me - right from the start.

In 1987 I purchased some Israeli made 9mm unltra compact that had gotten good reviews in one of the gun magazines and turned out to be a total POS. I don't even remember the name of the gun or the company. After 2 trips to whoever was representing them and fixing their firearms in the states with the gun still experiencing almost every failure possible - jams, failure to feed, failure to go into battery, failure to extract, stove pipes, failure to fire... both I and the gun dealer gave up on the thing and he offered me a BHP in exchange. I wasn't going to get my money back so I tok the deal. I didn't really want or need a BHP - I already had the HK P7M8, and I wanted to concentrate on the P7M8 manual of arms, but the High Power grew on me and I grew to love it, and I have to say it pointed very naturally for me - not quite as nicely as the P7M8 though.

Drail
November 20, 2012, 09:49 AM
All of my 1911s. Nothing else I have ever shot even comes close to the ergonomics of the 1911.

ApacheCoTodd
November 20, 2012, 09:55 AM
1911s for familiarity.
My 1917s just 'cause.
Charter Arms Target Bulldog .44 - weirdly perfect.

M2 Carbine
November 20, 2012, 10:02 AM
It sounds like the gun manufacturers mostly do pretty well matching their guns to us shooters.

One gun that doesn't point naturally for me is the CZ52.

blindhari
November 20, 2012, 10:15 AM
At age 16 I tried out a Ruger Single Six in a mexican speed holster. I have never known why but I could not miss with that gun unless I tried to use the sights. Frustrated my friend who owned it something fierce. When I got out of the army age 22 it was hanging on the post of my bed in my old bedroom. It had my name engraved on the barrel and four bricks of ammo beside it. In the meantime my friend had gone into the Trinity Alps and was living so far back it almost took 4 wheel drive to get to it. I drank alot of cofee up there with him whenever I had the chance and we did a lot of plinking. When he died not long ago he left me all his guns, ammo, reload stuff etc.

blindhari
Absent Companions

wlewisiii
November 20, 2012, 12:20 PM
Win: K Frame
Place: N Frame
Show: Glock 19

Dain Bramage
November 20, 2012, 12:23 PM
My CZ-82. It's also my easiest gun to accurately rapid fire. It just has the perfect sewing machine stitch cycle that brings the barrel down just as I pull the trigger again. All twelve rounds into a ragged little hole.

I'll also note for curiousity's sake that my 6-1/2" .44 mag Blackhawk points more naturally than my 4-5/8" .357 Blackhawk. Sometimes balance trumps mass.

plateshooter
November 20, 2012, 12:27 PM
Model 10 S&W 4" Heavy Barrel points easiest for me.

Godsgunman
November 20, 2012, 12:31 PM
CZ Rami easily

Nushif
November 20, 2012, 12:43 PM
Glock 19 for me.

In all fairness, I have pulled the trigger on glocks way more than any other firearm, so it just makes sense that it would feel more natural to me.

CCO 1911 for me.

In all fairness I have pulled the trigger on my CCO way more than any other firearm, so it just makes sense that it would feel the most natural to me.

And I am surprised this specific format of answer isn't more common. 90% of "good grip" is practice for sure.

340PD
November 20, 2012, 12:47 PM
1911's

CraigC
November 20, 2012, 12:55 PM
90% of "good grip" is practice for sure.
I disagree. I grew up shooting Dad's old High Standard HD model, which has a very steep grip angle. Then I shot Glocks for 15yrs and could shoot them well because I practiced. It was years later that I got my first 1911. 1911's are far more natural and comfortable for me than Glocks and other pistols with steep grip angles ever were.

Nushif
November 20, 2012, 01:28 PM
I disagree. I grew up shooting Dad's old High Standard HD model, which has a very steep grip angle. Then I shot Glocks for 15yrs and could shoot them well because I practiced. It was years later that I got my first 1911. 1911's are far more natural and comfortable for me than Glocks and other pistols with steep grip angles ever were.

See, this is where in my mind cultural learning takes over. I'm from Germany and had to learn that not every gun is held like a Luger or Ruger Mk I.
It is possible you learned that the 1911 is the better grip angle through very subtle influence, and it does hold sway. To this day if I point at something I point it at a Luger/saber grip angle. Unless I hold my CCO. With which I've learned that it's pointed differently.

Not all learning happens in a classroom, lesson or somesuch, take for example the definition of food.

Ankeny
November 20, 2012, 01:55 PM
A 1911 with flat MSH, CZ-75, S&W M&P.

danweasel
November 20, 2012, 03:05 PM
XD9. Must be the 1911 ergos.

19-3Ben
November 20, 2012, 04:23 PM
Sig P232 tied with a Ruger SP101 3" with Hogue Monogrip.

exiledtoIA
November 20, 2012, 06:59 PM
1) bhp
2) 1911
3) cz52

Esoxchaser
November 20, 2012, 07:01 PM
Toss up. Beretta 92. Springfield EMP.

smalls
November 20, 2012, 07:27 PM
1911. I shoot Glock's well, too, but they naturally point a little high for me. That and they don't feel "natural" in my hand. I could get used to it if I had to, though.

Trad Archer
November 20, 2012, 08:15 PM
Colt SAA

CraigC
November 20, 2012, 08:46 PM
It is possible you learned that the 1911 is the better grip angle through very subtle influence, and it does hold sway.
How could I learn a 1911 was a better grip angle before I ever handled one???

Sorry but not everything is learned. In this case the grip/angle I learned on was not optimal but I found what was. Just like I figured out that I need a slightly thicker grip on my single actions. That wasn't learned because it goes 180 to what I've always been told by the "experts". I fully believe that some guns and grips are more comfortable and natural. If everything was learned, we'd all be shooting the same thing.

whtsmoke
November 20, 2012, 09:00 PM
1911, SR22, MKlll 6 7/8 tapered bbl target.

sappyg
November 20, 2012, 09:03 PM
For me it's a 1911 followed closely by a Ruger 22/45. Hitting is just easy with them though I don't think I will try them with my eyes closed.
I do like the way the Sig 2022 points but haven't shot it yet. I think I like it too.

Nushif
November 20, 2012, 09:18 PM
If everything was learned, we'd all be shooting the same thing.

Exactly not. Let's ask a guy in New Dheli what a proper mattress feels like, then ask a guy in Kazakstan what a real house looks like and a European what a real lugnut looks like, while asking someone in Japan how they feel about monotheistic religions.

I once read somewhere that the traditional pistol hold in Russia comes from pointing a fist at something, such as the TT-33, the traditional hold in Germany (the Luger) came from holding a saber and the traditional 1911 grip angle came oddly enough from baseball.

Now, while I don't quite buy it wholesale, grip angles in varying cultures do come from different things. Think about it.

camsdaddy
November 20, 2012, 09:19 PM
K frame smith in 3 or 4"

VINTAGE-SLOTCARS
November 20, 2012, 09:24 PM
Ruger 3 screw, saa in .45 colt with a brass super black hawk frame.

Vern Humphrey
November 20, 2012, 09:52 PM
For me, it's a tossup between my Standard Model Ruger MKII and my Colt Woodsman.

Bovice
November 20, 2012, 10:07 PM
My german P220 with the old school plain checkered grips. Oldie but a goodie.

Maia007
November 20, 2012, 10:32 PM
Remington 51
Savage 1917
Colt Woodsman MT 4 1/2"

Don357
November 20, 2012, 11:15 PM
I guess I may cheat a little, because I won't buy a handgun that dosen't "point" naturally. And I may get bashed for this, but, my little Kel-Tec P-11 seems to point more naturally for me than either my 1911 and or my TZ99, and it's not because I practice with it more either. I rarely get to shoot because my job keeps me on the go.

CraigC
November 20, 2012, 11:31 PM
Exactly not. Let's ask a guy in New Dheli what a proper mattress feels like, then ask a guy in Kazakstan what a real house looks like and a European what a real lugnut looks like, while asking someone in Japan how they feel about monotheistic religions.
So I reckon you think left-handed people just made the choice and learned it that way? Eye dominance???

Pretty thin theory you have there.

Nushif
November 20, 2012, 11:44 PM
So I reckon you think left-handed people just made the choice and learned it that way? Eye dominance???

Interesting you should say that. I learned right handedness from a teacher who thought left handedness was wicked.

GWARGHOUL
November 20, 2012, 11:47 PM
Beretta 96. Fits me like a glove, goes where I want it..

CraigC
November 20, 2012, 11:51 PM
I learned right handedness from a teacher who thought left handedness was wicked.
So did my father. Even after all that, he's still left-handed.

SN13
November 20, 2012, 11:59 PM
Whatever gun I practice with enough to make it point perfectly.

1911 guy
November 21, 2012, 12:11 AM
It'll be a different handgun for everyone, depending on hand size and shape. For me, it happens to be the 1911. This is actually the reason i chose to confine myself to one type of handgun. Why shoot something that handicaps me because of ergonomics? If someone else chooses a Glock or Sig for the same reasons, they'd be a fool to spend too much time with my own favorite.

Nushif
November 21, 2012, 12:12 AM
So did my father. Even after all that, he's still left-handed.

He must have not learned from a deutsche Lehrerin at a rural elementary school in Germany. 8) I actually had to write right handed in class at all times and well you know ... act right handed at all times. And yes, I only had one teacher.

Old Dog
November 21, 2012, 01:02 AM
1911 with an arched mainspring housing. Hands-down.

SIGs (P-226, 228 and 229) point well for me.

Even the Beretta 92FS/M9 points well for me.

In revolvers, pretty much only S&W K-frames (with the old style stocks, a Tyler T-Grip is required, otherwise -- yep, the ugly Goodyears, usually Pachmyr "Grippers" --or the superb Kim Ahrends Combat fingergroove stocks).

alienbogey
November 21, 2012, 01:57 AM
HK P7.

And I just won a steel plate shoot with it tonight. :D

sammass
November 21, 2012, 03:31 AM
Luger P08, followed by Ruger Mark series 22's. The P08 grip angle to the barrel is just like pointing my finger at the target. Most comfortable hold I have ever had. Also impacts like a finger point: X ring every time :-). My Mark II is the next best to the P08. (Truthfully, I find most guns shoot better than I aim. <chuckling> )

BullRunBear
November 21, 2012, 05:39 AM
For me, it's a tie between a Uberti 1860 Colt C&B and a 6" barrel K-38 with Pachmyer grips.

My wife voted for her Ruger Mk II bull barrel and the CZ 75b. (Since she often outshoots me, I just smile and don't argue.) ;)

Jeff

papaairbear
November 21, 2012, 07:52 AM
1. CZ 75 (hands down #1)
2. Kahr P9
3. 1911

musicman10_1
November 21, 2012, 08:02 AM
My Grandpa's GP35 (Belgium FN made Hi-Power) seems to function like my pointer finger.

bannockburn
November 21, 2012, 10:14 AM
There are a few that seem to point very naturally for me:
1) Browning Hi-Power
2) Colt Combat Commander
3) Steyr M9
4) CZ P-01
5) Ruger MK.II Model 512 (with target grips)

philbo
November 21, 2012, 10:22 AM
S&W K frame with 3" heavy barrel and round butt... Mine is a model 65

Colt SAA is a very close second

oneounceload
November 21, 2012, 10:23 AM
Walther PP, followed by my HK P7

Modoc58
November 21, 2012, 10:24 AM
Springfield armory range officer
smith & wesson k38 model 14

CraigC
November 21, 2012, 10:27 AM
He must have not learned from a deutsche Lehrerin at a rural elementary school in Germany. 8) I actually had to write right handed in class at all times and well you know ... act right handed at all times. And yes, I only had one teacher.
1. No, Georgia. You think Germany is the only place they used to force kids to conform???

2. Yes, he did. He had to write right-handed all through school but is still left-handed.

How long are we going to go back and forth on this???

Nushif
November 21, 2012, 10:45 AM
How long are we going to go back and forth on this???

As long as you stubbornly refuse to aknowledge that complex behavior and traditions are a learned behavior and humans are not born with a "gun gene" for individual ideal grippage.

Or until I get tired of arguing this.

riceboy72
November 21, 2012, 10:51 AM
Oddly, my Glock 19 Gen 2 is a natural pointer for me, followed by my S&W 642. I have others I shoot well, but these two point the most natural.

Zeeemu
November 21, 2012, 10:56 AM
That's an easy one for me, a Whitney Wolverine. Very light, with a good grip angle.

jman74
November 21, 2012, 10:59 AM
Same here. Anything with the same grip angle i.e. xD, 22/45.

CraigC
November 21, 2012, 11:32 AM
As long as you stubbornly refuse to aknowledge that complex behavior and traditions are a learned behavior and humans are not born with a "gun gene" for individual ideal grippage.
Or as long as you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that some things are simply more natural to individuals than others. Funny how well-heeled folks have been getting measured for custom guns for centuries so that they fit perfectly. So that they feel and fit more "naturally". Yet as soon as you suggest the same for a handgun, folks say "everything is learned". Well yes, you can adapt yourself and learn to use anything reasonably well but you won't find any competition sporting clays shooters using shotguns that have not been explicitly fitted to them. An easier thing to do with a rifle or shotgun because the wood stock is easily adapted. Not so easy with handguns because their designs cannot be easily altered. The solution? Find what fits YOU.

Yes, I could learn to use thin gripped SA's and I'm sure I would be able to manage. Or I could have them fitted with thicker grips that are more comfortable, correctly place my finger in the triggerguard and allow me to shoot better.

Yes, I'm sure I could learn to point-shoot with a Glock but it would take far more work than it did with the sixguns and 1911's I use. Because the Glock came first but those other guns work better for ME because they're a better fit. It has nothing to do with any cultural or learned BS. It has everything to do with the miniscule differences between human beings. Nothing is truly one-size-fits-all. I'm sorry if this concept is too abstract or profound for you to understand. We had a discussion about handgun "balance" on another forum recently and IMHO, you either get it or you don't.

Nushif
November 21, 2012, 12:15 PM
Or as long as you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that some things are simply more natural to individuals than others. Funny how well-heeled folks have been getting measured for custom guns for centuries so that they fit perfectly. So that they feel and fit more "naturally

Yes, but this term "natural" comes from something. It's not some mystical element, it is a product of learning to THAT point. Well heeled folks who have their gun fitted perfectly still come from a common frame of reference, even if it's just some notion to the effect of "this is how you hold a gun, right?"

Getting a gun fitted to specifically you merely fits the gun, but the fact that you are not holding the gun upside down and pulling the trigger with your pinky is a learned behavior. from where? God knows ... TV, standing at the range? Extrapolationg from previous life experiences, who knows.

Point is that he fact that they even know what a gun is and that it makes small things go fast is a LEARNED behavior. Getting it fitted to them is just a long walk to their line of thinking instead of a commercial producer going with a cultural, technical or organizational norm to which the user has to walk.

Furthermore the whole "you get it or you don't" is not a valid argument in any kind of rational discussion. You're arguing from faith at this point. And I'm not reading the same holy book as you.

CraigC
November 21, 2012, 12:26 PM
Furthermore the whole "you get it or you don't" is not a valid argument in any kind of rational discussion.
Typical response from those who "don't get it". There are some things some folks understand and some things they do not. No amount of explaining will make them understand. I'm not going to continue this discussion with someone who said "I'm a bit of a n00b when it comes to guns" only two years ago. Perhaps if you spent the next few years working on your point-shooting, you might finally understand.

If you can explain to me how I can come from High Standards and Glocks but still find the 1911 more natural and comfortable, we 'may' have something to discuss.

Nushif
November 21, 2012, 12:29 PM
So now you're not only arguing from faith, but also from authority?

Could there not be the tiniest chance that this discussion is about cognitive development in relations to guns, rather than a simplistic attempt at explaining why people like their guns because "dey just born wid'em?"

oneounceload
November 21, 2012, 12:46 PM
One should always adapt their gun to them, not themselves to the gun for maximum comfort and ease of use and success.

Since everyone is different, it only makes sense to make alterations to accomplish that

CraigC
November 21, 2012, 01:04 PM
So now you're not only arguing from faith, but also from authority?
Yes, I would call myself a greater authority than someone who called themselves a "noob" only 2yrs ago. Do I claim to be an "expert"? Absolutely not. Do I believe I have a greater understanding on this subject than some? Yes, I do. Some things can ONLY be gained through experience. Like I said, spend 50,000rds working on your point-shooting over the next couple years and then get back to me.


Could there not be the tiniest chance that this discussion is about cognitive development in relations to guns, rather than a simplistic attempt at explaining why people like their guns because "dey just born wid'em?"
Unfortunately for you, there's nothing simplistic about it but it's obvious that you need to spend more time shooting and less time in the classroom.


I would suggest you do some reading about Annie Oakley's shotgunning before she got fitted for a shotgun. As was just stated, you'll see far better results adapting the gun to you, rather than yourself to the gun. Which is what you call "learning".

Teachu2
November 21, 2012, 01:23 PM
What works for you guys?

Whatever I've been shooting most with. The most "natural" pointing gun I've ever shot was a High Standard derringer in .22WMRM. Shot it by laying my index finger alongside the barrels (pointing at the target) and using my middle finger on the trigger. It was, however, the absolute worst in accuracy, as well.

For accuracy, I started with N-framed S&Ws, then moved to 1911s, and now Glocks. Over my lifetime, I've put far more rounds downrange with 1911s and my muscle memory is pretty strong with them. Over the last year, I've shot a lot of Glocks, and shoot them better than most. The most natural pointing Glock I have is my G30, but I shoot my G34 more accurately.

2zulu1
November 21, 2012, 02:42 PM
For me, "pointer" means being able to put rounds on target w/o using sights and while I'm moving. Going heads up with Glock, Sig and Beretta, the Steyr M40-A1 does well, but not in the same league as 1911s. But, the ergonomics of the 1911 evolved to the Hi-Power and the BHP is the best pointer for me when I quickly need to move from point A to point B. :)

2zulu1
November 21, 2012, 02:49 PM
He must have not learned from a deutsche Lehrerin at a rural elementary school in Germany. 8) I actually had to write right handed in class at all times and well you know ... act right handed at all times. And yes, I only had one teacher.
And how does this relate to the OP's question?

Old Dog
November 21, 2012, 05:41 PM
'Pears Mr Nushif keeps trying to say that no handgun points naturally, one has to learn to point a handgun to achieve accuracy.

Which, I'd suspect (supported by almost every poster in this thread!), most of don't believe; most experienced handgunners understand that any gun has a different "natural" POA from shooter to shooter ... Hey, look at all the guys who say Glocks point great for them, contrasted with some of us who can hit for squat with Glocks even after thousands of rounds fire, while we can easily get quick accurate hits with another platform we just tried for the first time yesterday ...

History.Doc
November 21, 2012, 05:58 PM
CZ rami or 83...maybe the 75 compact...

Deputy25
November 21, 2012, 09:15 PM
Hk p7.

Ky Larry
November 21, 2012, 09:34 PM
6" Python. Can't seem to miss with it. Also, full size 1911 seems natural in my hand. CZ PCR seems to point itself.

SilentScream
November 21, 2012, 09:59 PM
For me 2 are HK's - P7 & P30.The P30 gets medium back strap & large side panels. Then it's the Ruger MKI/II/III and the German Luger.

otasan56
November 22, 2012, 07:29 AM
Great closed-eye shooting! Back on page one, that is.

Big_John1961
November 22, 2012, 04:34 PM
I'd say my Beretta PX4 full size, but my Xdm 4.5 .45 points pretty damn good too. I don't really have pointing issues with any of my handguns, but these two are the best. The Beretta, in particular, works very well for me.

wow6599
November 22, 2012, 08:42 PM
Ruger Standard (MKI?) by a country mile.

Analogkid
November 22, 2012, 08:47 PM
My Polish Tokarev.

ApacheCoTodd
November 22, 2012, 09:17 PM
I'll have to amend my previous:
1911s for familiarity.
My 1917s just 'cause.
Charter Arms Target Bulldog .44 - weirdly perfect.

And say that they all get trumped by this one which just popped up on my screen saver while in a turkey induced stupor.

Among the things that I like about these over their Colt peers is the fact that they swing like an 8 inch extension of my index finger (a really heavy extension) tops the list.

SharpsDressedMan
November 22, 2012, 10:39 PM
Thank God for differences of opinion, or this sure would be a boring forum! I can tell you that I shoot a lot of different handguns, and over the years can honestly say that you CAN adapt to a particular gun or grip, and get results. BUT, there have been guns that I just picked up, and POINTED (as some have indicated, without the use of sights, hip shooting, etc), and gotten astounding results. I remember my first 8 shots from an HK PSP{ back in the 80's). Six of the eight hit a 4x4 post at 12-15 yards. There are days on the range that my S&W Hand .45 Hand Ejector with standard grips gives me good results, as does a Hi Power, or PPk. Sometimes shooting other guns detracts from that natural pointing, and I have to relax, and let it come back. But it's that INITIAL superior performance, or ease with which some guns work for some people. Would you believe it if a guy was a die hard 1911 guy, and he just picked uip a Beretta M9 and shot it better than his 1911's? I've seen that kind of thing happen. Believe what you want, but what gun points best for YOU was the question.

biohazurd
November 22, 2012, 11:13 PM
S&W M&P 9. I basically lift my arm up and the gun does the rest.

Super J
November 23, 2012, 12:14 AM
Natural pointing pistol...

The top two pistols that were naturally pointing for me are the h&k p7 and the h&k p30. I have carried Sigs, glocks and s&w pistols and none of them pointed as naturally for me as the h&k's

AFDavis11
November 23, 2012, 05:38 PM
I think I may have always bought revolvers for reliability and autos based on "point ability". The SAA points naturally, thats a given, and my 1911 and Walther PPK/S do well also. My revolvers have to be aimed, all the way through the trigger pull. I liked the XD-9 because it was so similar to the 1911.

I'm pretty certain a long elegant Flintlock dueling pistol would point well. Maybe I should consider a really old school carry piece!

tuj
November 23, 2012, 06:46 PM
Pardini SP

otasan56
November 24, 2012, 09:34 AM
Five pages and I am one of the few choosing the Glock pistol. :rolleyes:

tubeshooter
November 24, 2012, 04:08 PM
For me it is a tie between a 4" Security Six and a 6" Ruger MK III Standard (pencil barrel).


Honorable mention goes to a 4 5/8" Blackhawk.

Lo8080
November 24, 2012, 06:39 PM
Beretta P4 storm

montanaoffroader
November 24, 2012, 09:15 PM
1851 Navy
SAA

I have learned to shoot other platforms fairly well, but old style Colts still seem the most natural to me.........

Pukindog12
November 25, 2012, 03:28 AM
Walther P99 AS in 9mm.

Serenity
November 25, 2012, 03:48 PM
My Sig p226 come right back to aim very easily and feels like it points naturally. But my S&W Model 67 feels like it points itself; it is my confidence builder. I take a break from more demanding stuff that I am working on with the 9mm and shoot a set of 38 spec. and immediately feel better about myself.

Creature
November 25, 2012, 03:59 PM
I was very impressed with the Caracal C that I recently about fondled to death. It was like I was pointing my finger.

shafter
November 25, 2012, 04:24 PM
Definitely an 1860 Army Colt.

A Smith and Wesson Model 10 is another fantastic pointer.

I never thought I'd say this but the Glock 19 points extremely well also.

hso
November 26, 2012, 12:55 AM
BHP points as if I was born with it clutched in my hand.

scotjute
November 26, 2012, 12:09 PM
Ruger SP-101 with 3" barrell.

popper
November 26, 2012, 02:59 PM
Ruger MIII, it was designed that way. PX4 second.

Brian Williams
November 26, 2012, 10:12 PM
Best round butt S&W models 10, 13 et.al.
tight grip 1911A1
open grip, Glock 19 and Colt woodsman

Zombiphobia
November 26, 2012, 10:15 PM
Colt-based.

1851 Navy revolver and Heritage Rough Rider .22 are the best-pointing handguns I own.

kbbailey
November 26, 2012, 10:25 PM
4 5/8" Blackhawk.

SleazyRider
November 26, 2012, 10:35 PM
For me, nothing comes close to the CZ82.

coalman
November 27, 2012, 01:13 AM
CZ75

777TRUTH
November 27, 2012, 04:02 AM
CZ 75B for me.

MyGreenGuns
November 27, 2012, 05:17 AM
Springfield XD9 (Original recipe, not the "m" or "s")

What finally made me buy this thing was how well I could point shoot it vs other 4" full sized 9mms. After narrowing myself down to just a few choices, my final test was to put 1 round in each gun and point shoot. The XD was the winner by a large margin.

I showed off for my friends (once) by putting blue painters tape over the rear sight and popping a few cans. Of course they didnt know that this is my MOST fired firearm.

(Did not read all replies before posting)

Lucky Derby
November 27, 2012, 07:09 AM
Browning High Power

bikerdoc
November 27, 2012, 07:44 AM
Cz 75

iblong
November 27, 2012, 08:03 AM
Of the Dozen or so I own it would be My CZ and my Kimber UCII.
Both my 75 and P-o1 will handle ever bit as good as my 1911's.

Fishman777
November 27, 2012, 08:06 AM
For me, it is my M&P 9. I prefer guns with a low bore axis.

iLikeOldgunsIlikeNewGuns
November 27, 2012, 03:05 PM
I've shot many handguns that aren't in my collection, via rentals and friends, and my personal collection consists of 13 different frames and styles not counting duplicates. That being said I still somehow have not shot a Ruger .22 of any kind yet (seriously I don't know how that's possible) and a few others that have been mentioned here.

So out of my own experience thus far, here's what points the most naturally and easily/successfully for me:

For starters, my Nambu type 14 points very naturally for me, in that I can look at something while holding the gun by my side, then close my eyes and point at the 'target,' then open my eyes to discover the sights right on point. I've never fired my Nambu however, so I guess it's an honorable mention as I can't speak for natural pointing vs POI.

So out of guns I own or have fired here they are starting with best
Believe it or not, the #1 on my list is my Beretta Tomcat .32auto. I can get very tight groups at 40 feet when using the sights, but I can seriously hit a milk jug full of water with every shot at 20-30 feet just pointing not using the sights, every time. I can barely believe it when I do it, as the gun is so small and I have very large hands, but I do it often and it just points incredibly naturally for me, like an extension of my will.

Next up would be my 1851 Navy .44 cap n ball replica. Using the sights it'll shoot a bit high for me, but when I just fire instinctively the targets get smashed with lead. I tend to tuck my pinky under the grip, and again the gun becomes an extension of my will.

Third would be my 1911s, they're just about tied with the 1851 but in a different way. Both of my 1911s have flat mainspring housings, and point very naturally for me, with or without using the sights. Strange thing is for me an arched mainspring housing actually points even better, must be my hands or something because for most folks I read here, it seems to be the opposite, but arched or flat, the 1911 fits my hand and points very naturally, again I can do the same -close eyes point at target open eyes- routine that I mentioned with the Nambu, and it works every time.

Last I'll mention my SAA's, they are very naturally pointing, but I tend to shoot just slightly high with them when I point vs using the sights. I have no doubt I'll correct this with more practice, but that's why they come in 4th on my list here :)

Valor35
November 27, 2012, 09:57 PM
1) Ruger P95
2) Browning Buckmark

Interesting, though, my wife hates how the Buckmark 'points' for her. . .

CAR
November 27, 2012, 10:42 PM
For me, it seems to be my Steyr M40-A1.

Batty67
November 28, 2012, 01:49 PM
My CZ Rami BD just fits in my hand perfectly and point-and-shoots wonderfully.

Kabal
November 28, 2012, 08:14 PM
Mine is the ProTuning CZ 75 Shadow Viper.

Other guns that I shoot well and that feel good in my hand are the regular CZ 75 Shadow, the CZ 75B and 1911s.

I've put more rounds through the HK P8 than through any other pistol. I appreciate its reliability, but I don't like its grip, and I don't shoot it very well. The same applies to the Glock 17, even with the Gen 4 backstrap.
When I got the chance to handle a Caracal, without shooting it, the grip didn't feel comfortable in my hand either.
I had reached a point where I began to doubt whether there's any polymer handgun at all that fits my hands when I handled an M&P... which, to my astonishment, felt great! I still need to shoot one, though.

Is there anyone else who feels a vast discrepancy in both ergonomics and perceived accuracy between the majority of polymer and steel frame handguns?

Certaindeaf
November 28, 2012, 10:17 PM
A 4" Browning Nomad and the Hi-Power. Both very different but they both point so well.
Here's a Nomad for those that don't know.. no pictures of mine.. and everyone knows what a Hi-Power looks/feels like.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_abaJ0xbRju4/SyY2B22deWI/AAAAAAAACJw/gtgDcYjQERo/s400/Browning+Nomad.jpg

xxjumbojimboxx
November 28, 2012, 11:30 PM
My ruger sr9c points better, for me, than anything else I own. Mind you I've got an hk usp 9, a beretta 92fs, a sig P6(closest rival in my opinion), A high power and multiple clones) and so many other nines as I collect them. When I went to qualify for my chl over here in Taylor TX I actually shot my compact 9mm better then the lifers shooting their full size 1911's. They all laughed at me at first. I shot faster, and out shot all of their full sized barrels!, haha yes. It literally feels like an extension of my arm for me. (By the way i work with some of those guys and their ex military... I'd be embarassed :) )

SharpsDressedMan
November 29, 2012, 08:19 AM
I have to think that part of the reason any particular gun works so well for someone is not only the gun, but the shape of the persons hand, how they hold it, and what they are used to. And, maybe even more and varied reasons, each variable to a greater or lesser extent per individual. In other words, nothing is going to be the same for every shooter. We do adapt to what we have in hand to an extent, but some guns may never fit some people. That is what makes this thread so interesting to me; if something doesn't work, the success that others have had with their gun is worthy of taking a look and handling THAT gun to see how it compares.

jhco50
November 30, 2012, 02:02 AM
Truthfully? My grandsons cap pistol. I don't know why but the kids cap guns always feel good and point good.

Real? Colt Replica single actions. Number one fitting is Ruger's Security-Six with the factory grips. They just fit my hand and the gun points where I look.

otasan56
November 30, 2012, 08:15 AM
I am still one of the few who have chosen a Glock pistol. :confused:

rodinal220
November 30, 2012, 09:10 AM
Colt 1851 Navy

Quickdraw Limpsalot
November 30, 2012, 10:59 AM
1911 Government, Browning Buckmark and Walther P99 for me.

Tortuga12
November 30, 2012, 11:34 AM
FEG PA-63 for me. I keep toying with the idea of moving up to a thin 9mm, but this one just puts 'em where I point so well.

antiquus
November 30, 2012, 12:18 PM
2nd the PA-63. I have a AP-9 (PA-63 in .380) that passes the 1.5 sec draw and fire into a 7" plate at 7 yards test. Those frames just point nice for me.

Also my 6" L frame points naturally, it must be the balance point because the 2" L frame points high for me.

*GunNut*
November 30, 2012, 09:35 PM
1: 1911
2: H&K USP 9mm

If somebody writes a Glock points naturally, you have never handled anything else!!!!!

csa77
December 1, 2012, 12:48 AM
Browning hi power.... Every thing else iv tried or own doesn't compare.... Xd,s glocks, 1911, j-frame, model 29, 96fs, and a 22/45. The browning gives me the best natural point of aim.

PabloJ
December 1, 2012, 12:56 PM
The only handgun I own now is not easy pointing but it goes bang every time trigger is pulled. I'm waiting for Arsenal 'Strike One' to come out. That one should point nicely.

DammitBoy
December 1, 2012, 12:59 PM
Any Ruger Blackhawk

P5 Guy
December 1, 2012, 01:07 PM
S&W 39-2 fits me like a glove.

speedway
December 1, 2012, 09:30 PM
HK p7 every time.

mwsenoj
December 1, 2012, 09:33 PM
Glock 22

Knockdownpower
December 1, 2012, 11:30 PM
The best pointing handguns for me are:

1. 1911's with upgraded grip safty
2. Glock's (sub compacts must have mag extension)
3. Colt SSA & copies (I know, not a good carry option but I still love 'em):cool:

jensb
December 2, 2012, 12:33 PM
Browning Hi Power,Luger 08,and Ruger MK1.

megaton
December 2, 2012, 12:56 PM
Springfield XD45C, I'm not sure why but with a grip extender mag plate this gun feels like it was custom made for me.

sawdeanz
December 2, 2012, 01:13 PM
I bought my CZ p-07 duty because of how well it fit, great size and ergonomics

JROC
December 2, 2012, 01:39 PM
I have no problem pointing any of my handguns. 1911 are easy to point so of course my Colt Combat Elite is no problem to point. I would say my CZ75 is the most natural pointer I own, but I have used my Glock 20SF so much that I can throw it up and acquire my target as fast, easily, and naturally with it as I can either of my other pistols.

CPshooter
December 2, 2012, 02:56 PM
HK p7 every time.
Same for me. Such a low bore axis and a natural pointing grip angle. Good weight and balance...you get the idea!

Alnamvet68
December 2, 2012, 03:27 PM
The two guns I was trained to use, and used for over 50+ years...Colt 1911's and S&W revolvers, especially the snubbies. The one handgun I hated the most, and never trusted, was the Beretta M9.

MCgunner
December 2, 2012, 03:35 PM
3 guns point shoot for me amazingly well.

Ruger KP90DC...Probably just from familiarity. I've won enough money at local shoots with the thing to buy several of 'em. It's one accurate autoloader, too.

Kel Tec P11, again probably just from familiarity. I've had it since 96, got over 11K rounds through it, lost count, but used to shoot it regularly enough to estimate. It's still my favorite daily carry.

Radom P64, just got this thing a couple of years ago, but from the first round, I knew it was natural for me. I improved it with a set of Wolf springs, necessary to hit anything in DA with, and a set of Marschal grips. The grips, well, they're not very durable for pocket carry. They'll crack if you bump in to something wrong. But, they sure make the gun more comfy to shoot and don't affect its natural pointability for me. I might take the grips off it and put the plastics back on for carry. The outside grip panel is all dinged up, kinda ruined the look it had. :D

Of course, all my revolvers are good pointers for me, fitted Hogues on the DAs. I love my SAs, too, point well, and my cap and ball Pietta Colt '51 navy is just amazing. Colonel Colt knew what he was doin' back in the day. I shoot all my revolvers a lot, saves on brass which I handload and of course, I just like the cap guns.

reddog13
December 2, 2012, 11:26 PM
S&W Mod. 64. Bought it from my uncle and then handled it to my dad when we stepped off his porch. I was on leave from the Marine Corps just before Christmas in the mid 70s. Next best, CZ 75b.

ArchAngelCD
December 3, 2012, 12:14 AM
My 4" 1948 S&W M&P.

otasan56
December 4, 2012, 08:04 AM
So there are a few Glocks to go along with my G17.

Pilot
December 4, 2012, 08:28 AM
Dr. Rob wrote:

Luger.

X2. It is ashame most newer, younger shooters don't know that, or even really care to.

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