Trim Lenght for .30 Carbine Question


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jediagh
November 20, 2012, 12:53 PM
Background/Experience

I have been reloading for close to a year now via a single stage press for my 1911 for plinking purposes only. Have not reloaded any other caliber.

Situation
I know wish to start reloading for my Auto Ordinance M1 .30 Carbine (Paratrooper version) so that I can begin to shoot the Appleseed AQT targets using the .30 carbine round instead of using my 10/22.

This weekend I used some aguila .30 carbine in my rifle and now have around 200 brass casings ready to reload. The aguila was OK but a bit smoky.

In any case these are the steps I have taken before I stopped with my question for this post.

1) Tumbled the brass to clean it. It was not that dirty (dirt) since my brass catcher got it all but did have power marks, etc. (Not shinny brass anymore).

2) Using imperial dry neck lube and imperial die wax I de-primed and resized the cases like this guy does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8p_99I0f4s

Not sure the dry neck lube is really needed but I figured I try it out. The die wax does help to make the resizing go a bit smoother. You can feel the pressure on the press when you don't use the lube.

3) Re-tumbled the brass to remove the lubes

4) Checking the case length with this tool.

http://www.lymanproducts.com/includes/img/lyman/case-prep/ga_ez.jpg

The first 6 cases I checked 3 were over the max of 1.290 (what the tool checks). So I measured via my capliers and found this:

1) 1.292
2) 1.295
3) 1.290
4) 1.288
5) 1.289
6) 1.292

5) Case Trimming

So using the LEE hand trimmer tool I trimmed the ones that were too long as well as the 1.290 (max border line one). So I trimmed #1, #2, #3 and #6
http://www.gunthorp.com/images/Lee%20case%20trimmer.jpg

I deburred the inside and outside and then using a green pan sponge did one final cleaning of the case. Took the capliers again all this brass came out to be 1.285.

So this is my question.

Is it safe to use the 1.288 and 1.289 along with these 1.285 since they are all below the 1.290 that the book says is OK provided I use the right bullet/powder setup.

My lyman reloading book says the case lenght should be 1.286 but I have no way of controlling what the lee trimmer does since it's at a set lenght. :confused:

So should I go ahead an just trim all of the brass so that it is at 1.285 and make it uniform. I am assuming the other 194 will be 1.285 or higher. Not sure if there will be any less than 1.285.

The way I figure if it's all 1.285 and with the same powder drop and bullet then it's like shooting the same ammo (data wise) over and over so the results should be similar provided there is no user error (me shooting wrong).

Does shooting 1.285 vs 1.288 really make a difference for what I am doing?

I don't need super precision from this ammo since this is just a stepping stone for when I reload/use a .308 rifle in 2 years from now. Will I really notice the difference? For appleseed targets you do not use a bench or rest. It's all you, the rifle and a sling when standing/sitting.

So am I doing everything right so far?

The expanding the cases, dropping powder, seating the bullet all looks the same as when I do .45 ACP so that should be easy and similar. All this prep work is what's new for me.

I do not plan on doing HOT loads with this ammo.
Will reload it per what the lyman books says with the following:

WIN 296 with Berry's plated bullets 110gr.
Per the winchester website starting load is 14 grains of WIN 296 with MAX of 15 gr. My idea was to do 10 rds at 14g thru 14.5 (50 rds) and see what works best. Hopefully the 14 is best (cycles the bolt) and leave it at that.

Thanks

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rcmodel
November 20, 2012, 01:23 PM
Yes it is safe.

I have never trimmed a .30 carbine case in the 50 years I have loaded them.

As long as the bolt will shut on a sized case?

Choot'em Lizabet! Choot'em!

rc

SSN Vet
November 20, 2012, 04:19 PM
I'm far from the reloading expert...

but I've come to the conclusion that .001" is an insignificant amount when it comes to length measurements....

as noted, if your reloads chamber... you're good to go.

greyling22
November 20, 2012, 05:24 PM
On my gun, I can get away with only resizing about half to 2/3 of the case. They still chamber, and I don't need lube for them. I've trimmed 30 carb with the lee trimmer. If you want to make them shorter you can sand down the pin that goes in the flash hole a bit and it will trim them shorter.

Lee Roder
November 20, 2012, 06:04 PM
Some notes on case length from somebody who knows (about halfway down but the entire post is a good read for you!)

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=2967

And ...

WIN 296 with Berry's plated bullets 110gr.
Per the winchester website starting load is 14 grains of WIN 296 with MAX of 15 gr. My idea was to do 10 rds at 14g thru 14.5 (50 rds) and see what works best. Hopefully the 14 is best (cycles the bolt) and leave it at that.

You might want to RECHECK YOUR LOAD DATA. I don't really know but I don't believe W296 is appropriate for the lower velocity plated bullets (vs full metal jacket)

Just sayin'

cfullgraf
November 20, 2012, 06:21 PM
You might want to RECHECK YOUR LOAD DATA. I don't really know but I don't believe W296 is appropriate for the lower velocity plated bullets (vs full metal jacket)


Berry rates their 30 Carbine bullets at 1950 fps. I use them with W296 in my M1 Carbine.

USSR
November 20, 2012, 06:46 PM
I shoot a lot of .30 Carbine, mostly with my own hand cast bullets. It is a very different cartridge. For example, some of the manuals list the trim-to length as 1.286", while others list it at 1.280" which is what I go by. Also, the .30 Carbine is the "growingest" brass I know of. This is due to the case being a tapered straight wall case and the fact that most reloaders use carbide dies for it. This results in the case body being reduced to the same dimensions as the case mouth and gives the loaded cartridge a "wasp waist" look. The over reduction of the case body has to go somewhere, so it results in a lengthened case. Moral of the story - plan on trimming your .30 Carbine brass.

Don

HOWARD J
November 20, 2012, 06:59 PM
I had to trim my 30 carbine brass 2-3 times in about 10 loadings.
I have asked Wilson Gage to make a true 30 carbine gage---they told me to go fly a kite.
I use the revolver in my 30 carbine pistol for a gage---if it fits the revolver it always seems to fit the carbine
Wilson makes a 30 carbine tool but it only checks length if you have it on a level table---a caliper works better

Lee Roder
November 20, 2012, 07:00 PM
Berry rates their 30 Carbine bullets at 1950 fps. I use them with W296 in my M1 Carbine.

Hmmm ... didn't know that. That's good to know, always thought plated was just fancy lead, Learn something new every day Thx

jcwit
November 20, 2012, 07:07 PM
I use a case trimer similar to what you show, works for me, anything shorter gets loaded and shot as well.

Cherokee
November 20, 2012, 07:37 PM
Been loading 30 Carbine since 1960, found they almost always need trimming after resizing. For the rifle, 1.285 is my target length wth 1.29 max; for my Ruger pistol, I have to trim to 1.280. Shorter cases are no problem for rifle or pistol.

jediagh
November 21, 2012, 10:18 AM
Thanks all.
Guess I'll continue on course then. Finished trimming 25 last night. Will hopefully do another 25 tonight then load the first 50 with the various powder weights see which works best before I reload the rest of the brass.

Now I just need to figure out a good routine for the trimming. The hand tool is OK but it is a bit slow. I also got the Lee Zip Trimmer (gift) but need to get a clamp for it. That "might" make it go faster but the bottleneck I see is having to screw/unscrew the brass from the holder for each trimming. **SIGH**

I see a tonof options here:
http://squibloads.wordpress.com/reloading/what-is-the-best-case-trimmer/
but not sure I want to spend more money for this caliber just yet.

Gonna try using the battery power drill and the zip trimmer as well to see if I like those options better.

cfullgraf
November 21, 2012, 11:30 AM
Now I just need to figure out a good routine for the trimming. The hand tool is OK but it is a bit slow. I also got the Lee Zip Trimmer (gift) but need to get a clamp for it. That "might" make it go faster but the bottleneck I see is having to screw/unscrew the brass from the holder for each trimming. **SIGH**

...


Gonna try using the battery power drill and the zip trimmer as well to see if I like those options better.

An appropriate sized open end wrench that fits across the opening in the shell holder and the back of the shell holder can make snugging and loosening the shell holder easier. Tight the first time. 9/16" or 5/8" wrench if I remember correctly. I have a set of stubby combination wrenches at my reloading station, I grab the one that fits.

Also, Sinclair International makes some die wrenches. The Redding die wrench has a part that fits the Lee shell holder quite well. The shell holder is about the same diameter as the decapping lock ring on Redding dies.

But I prefer the stubby combo wrench.

I use a battery powered screw driver with my Lee trimmer. I find it less cumbersome than using a drill motor. My screw driver has a plain hex driver end as opposed to the quick lock end. I added a couple of set screws to hold the Lee case stud in place.

jediagh
November 23, 2012, 03:23 AM
Well I just finished trimming all 163 pieces that I have.
Using the drill + Lee tools I'm able to do about 50 in 1 hr. I can probably do it faster if I don't measure each on after I trim. What I have found out is that the Lee trimmer is not always trimming them down to 1.285.

It depends on the amount of pressure I do. If I push the trimmer into the brass I can get as far down as 1.283. If I do it slowly and with a steady hand I get between 1.286 and 1.284. If I twist as I go along I seem to get the best results and a 1.286 reading most of the time.

For plinking with this carbine I'm ok with that but when I move up to .308 I'm not going to use the Lee tools. :nono: Want more precision that than.

Going to prime the cases tomorrow and then have to wait as my bullets are not here yet. :(

jcwit
November 23, 2012, 08:12 AM
I use a Forester case trimer, the original $90.00. Still get a few thousands variation depending how hard I push.

FROGO207
November 23, 2012, 08:34 AM
I use an inexpensive drill press from Harbor Freight that will open up to 1/2 inch. I chuck the Lee cutter/length gauge into it and use the drill table as the stop and hold the brass in a glove with sticky dots for safety. I can trim a huge pile as fast as can be.:D Just make sure the stop pin does not wear and make your brass shorter (happens when you use more pressure than needed). If you can afford a small drill press that is the way to go IMHO.

Fat_46
November 23, 2012, 09:09 AM
I use a Wilson trimmer with the Sinclair base and shark fin clamp for all of my trimming now. I started with the Lee trimmers, purchased a used Pacific Tool trimmer but had problems finding pilots. A few years ago I finally broke down and purchased the Wilson. I havent looked back!



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medalguy
November 23, 2012, 12:37 PM
I trim my carbine brass to 1.280 which is the bare minimum case length. I find I need to trim about every third loading to maintain the length.

OP, remember the carbine round headspaces on the cartridge mouth, not the rim or shoulder since there isn't one. If you don't trim, and the cases are too long, the bolt may not fully close on the round resulting in a bad kaboom. Trimmed too short and the cartridge can fall too far into the chamber and the firing pin may not hit the primer and fire the round. A couple of thousandths as you indicated should not be a problem, but try to keep them all as close to the listed case length as possible, and measure them every 2-3 firings.

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