Using small rifle primers for handgun loads?


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bluntarski
November 20, 2012, 02:48 PM
I have about 500 Winchester WSR Small Rifle Primers that I don't plan on using anymore for rifle loads. Does any one have an opinion on using them for hand gun loads to replace small pistol primers? I load 38 spc and .357 mag and occasionally 9 mm if the mood strikes me.

I hate to waste them, and don't really have anyone to give the primers to. It doesn't seem like that big of a difference to use them in a .357 mag load, but I want to get some other thoughts first.

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jackpot
November 20, 2012, 03:07 PM
Primer Pocket Dimensions (http://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh481/gsparesa/guns/PrimersandPrimerPocketDimensions.png) It looks like you should be able to get away with it but you may experience some light strikes due to the primer wall on rifle primers is supposedly thicker.

SHR970
November 20, 2012, 03:14 PM
Use as small pistol magnum. Fed. 200's used to be listed as SPM / SR. Hornady #4 has that in their chart and it agreed with the packaging at that time.

CCI people off an on have admitted that SPM and SR are the same...other times they deny it.

1911Tuner
November 20, 2012, 03:18 PM
The original ,357 Magnum loading was done with rifle primers, as were many of the hot-rod .38 Super loads back in the early racegun days.

Otto
November 20, 2012, 03:43 PM
Fourteen dollars worth of primers isn't worth the risk of breech face erosion.
Besides that, if your reloading manual doesn't specify rifle primers then you shouldn't use them.
Here's a guy who's lesson was learned the hard way.....http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1399747

ny32182
November 20, 2012, 03:48 PM
I'd load a sample with a light to mid-range load, and if your pistol lights them, I'd burn them up.

I've never done it personally but know several people who use SRP for every small primer application they have.

jcwit
November 20, 2012, 04:26 PM
Been using SRP in place of SPP for all my handgun reloads. Some folks claim you might have misfires because of lighter hammer/firing pin strikes. This has never been an issue for me with any of my handgun reloads. Breech face erosion has never been an issue either. Main reason I use SRP is I purchased sleeves and sleeves of them at a closeout years ago. Still have many sleeves of them. A sleeve equals 5,000 primers.

bluntarski
November 20, 2012, 04:40 PM
Is there any need to lower the powder charge at all? I have a somewhat light .357 mag load that I use for general target shooting. I can't imagine there is much of a pressure increase with these primers. Especially if some of you are saying they are basically interchangeable with small magnum pistols.

SSN Vet
November 20, 2012, 05:06 PM
I recently tested Rem 6-1/2 (small rifle) primers with 14 gr. of 2400 pushing a 158 gr. JFN in my full size frame .357 mag

The report and recoil was comprible to factory loads.

The primers were slightly flattened, just like the factory loads.

BUT.... I did have two cartridges that would not detonate after multiple taps.

Either I failed to seat them all the way or the primers are harder than small pistol primers.

This revolver has never failed to fire in the 20 years I've owned it.

So I don't think I'll use any more of them for this application.

EddieNFL
November 20, 2012, 08:37 PM
I use SR in TCs.

hentown
November 21, 2012, 11:20 AM
I use small rifle primers, exclusively,for all my 9mm reloads. After thousands of rounds, no eroded breechfaces and no light strikes. All my 9mms are shot through Glocks with standard firing pin springs.

mdemetz
November 21, 2012, 11:29 AM
I found a post where someone says the CCI400 SR and CCI550 SPM are the same primer. Claimed he confirmed it with the factory.

gamestalker
November 21, 2012, 11:48 PM
Don't do it if you don't see SAAMI approved data that supports it. I mean, why would they make different primer applications if there wasn't a specific concern, or need for them? I'm not just being anal here either. There is plenty of professional SAAMI supported documentation that states why we should only use only SAAMI approved components that are specific to the application.

GS

rfwobbly
November 23, 2012, 10:55 AM
Is there any need to lower the powder charge at all? I have a somewhat light .357 mag load that I use for general target shooting. I can't imagine there is much of a pressure increase with these primers. Especially if some of you are saying they are basically interchangeable with small magnum pistols.

You're getting mixed info in this thread, which makes some of the feedback obsolete. You're talking about replacing regular small pistol with regular small rifle primers. You did NOT say anything about magnum primers.

In my experience regular rifle primers can be used interchangeably with regular small pistol primers, provided your hammer strike is hard enough to to dent the thicker cup of the rifle primer. It seems that the only difference is that the rifle primer has a thicker cup to withstand higher pressures. Some high pressure pistol cartridges call for regular small rifle primers. You may actually be safer using rifle primers on your hotter 357 Mag loads.

coalman
November 23, 2012, 06:35 PM
I've loaded SRP, SRPM and SPPM in 9mm. They will fire. Escaping gas may cut your breechface if you run weak loads. Run them warm and you should be fine. I don't bother any longer and stick with SPP.

Cheetos
November 23, 2012, 09:28 PM
I use the Winchester WSR primers for loading 9mm and .38 special. Never had one not fire!

Hondo 60
November 23, 2012, 09:41 PM
I tried it once & it would not fire.
The round was .38 Special.
The gun was a S&W Model 10-5.

I've never noticed light strikes with this gun.

Just my 2 worth YMMV

Swampman
November 23, 2012, 10:43 PM
I've used quite a few of the Wolf small rifle primers in .357 SIG practice loads. I can't discern any difference when shooting them, although IIRC, the chrono showed a gain of about 20 fps over CCI SPP when using Power Pistol powder.
As with any component change, I dropped 10% below book max (only 5% below the load I was actually using) and worked back up.

Walkalong
November 24, 2012, 12:02 PM
During the primer shortage many people used standard small rifle primers in place of standard small pistol primers. Except for a few guns that could not reliably set them off, they worked just fine. The general consensus was to stop .1 to .3 Grs short of max depending on the calibers working pressure, powder speed, and case capacity. A chrono here can really help. There is no free lunch and if you are getting excessive velocities it comes at the price of higher pressure.

There are some instances where breech face damage has been reported, so keep an eye out for that. I have no experience with it. The only pistol caliber I am using small rifle primers for right now is hot .38 Super loads.

dragon813gt
November 24, 2012, 02:33 PM
I use SR for 357mag with H110. I didn't want to have to stock SPM for one cartridge. I have had no issues at all. But I did work up from the starting loads. IMO SR and SPM are interchangeable without adjusting the charge as long as you aren't near max charge. The burn characteristics of the SR and SPM seem to be the same with the only difference being the cup strength of the SR. I have no actual proof to back this so take it as an opinion at best.


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Fatelvis
November 24, 2012, 05:14 PM
All I ever use in my 357 Maximums (Contender and DW) is Rem 7 1/2 rifle primers. They work wonderfully.

EddieNFL
November 24, 2012, 05:19 PM
SR in handgun loads was the norm in IHMSA's heyday. Like anything else, approach with caution and pay close attention to the seemly insignificant details. The sky won't fall...unless you're looking to win a Darwin award.

billybob44
November 24, 2012, 06:04 PM
During the primer shortage many people used standard small rifle primers in place of standard small pistol primers. Except for a few guns that could not reliably set them off, they worked just fine. The general consensus was to stop .1 to .3 Grs short of max depending on the calibers working pressure, powder speed, and case capacity. A chrono here can really help. There is no free lunch and if you are getting excessive velocities it comes at the price of higher pressure.

There are some instances where breech face damage has been reported, so keep an eye out for that. I have no experience with it. The only pistol caliber I am using small rifle primers for right now is hot .38 Super loads.
^^^Great Post WA.

Late '08'-'09', during the primer shortage, the only small primers that I could find local were Remington Small Rifle (6 1/2's).
I have used these in more than several small pistol primed calibers with 100% success. As said before back down your charge 10% and work back up.
For ME they worked well..Bill.

GLOOB
November 24, 2012, 06:55 PM
There are some instances where breech face damage has been reported
I'm guessing harder cup = more pressure needed to reliably seal primer pocket?
Maybe it's best not to use them for powder puff target loads.

Walkalong
November 24, 2012, 08:53 PM
That would be my impression as well. I just don't have any experience with it.

coalman
November 24, 2012, 09:54 PM
I'm guessing harder cup = more pressure needed to reliably seal primer pocket?
Maybe it's best not to use them for powder puff target loads.

Correct. The harder cup requires higher pressure to deform the primer to seal in the primer pocket to keep gas from escaping. Weak SPR/SRPM loads in 9mm will gas cut, higher pressure loads will not. I speak from experience.

45crittergitter
December 1, 2012, 05:38 PM
Don't.

beatledog7
December 1, 2012, 05:58 PM
Shot a few .38SPL WC with the standard charge of Bullseye and Remington 6-1/2s from a 642 and a Sec Six this week. Shot fine, very accurate, no signs of overpressure, no pierced primers, no leak-back onto the breach face.

I'll try some of these in .357Mag loads next.

Route666
December 1, 2012, 07:06 PM
I use small rifle primers for my 357 mag silhouette loads. Is 357 Mag a pistol or rifle round? - You can get the cartridge in rifles or pistols. I'm just mentioning this to show that in rounds like 357 Mag it isn't really a pistol or rifle round, and small rifle and small pistol primers are very similar, with the rifle ones having a thicker cup to withstand higher pressures generated in SOME rifle cartridges they can be used for. As always though with a new component, start low and build the load back up.

DurangoKid
December 1, 2012, 09:08 PM
The SP primers are made for the ignition of 10 grs. loads or less. The RP are for ignition of larger volume loads in rifle cases. The RP is going to run a very high pressure and create a violent ignition in a handgun. These primers will cause the bullet to move out before the powder charge is ignited completely. Can you do it yes, is it a good idea? :confused:

jcwit
December 1, 2012, 10:39 PM
The SP primers are made for the ignition of 10 grs. loads or less. The RP are for ignition of larger volume loads in rifle cases. The RP is going to run a very high pressure and create a violent ignition in a handgun. These primers will cause the bullet to move out before the powder charge is ignited completely. Can you do it yes, is it a good idea?

Well I guess if you say so. However used SRP in thousands of hand gun loads with no ill effects. But I usually only load in the mid range.

Route666
December 2, 2012, 02:48 AM
Yes I agree with the practice, as jcwit is saying, even if the theory (wherever it comes from...) apparently says no don't do it. My 180GN full 357 Mag loads used to knock over 50lb of steel at 200m out of my 6" 686 seem to work find without blowing the gun up using rifle primers... The 9mm stuff I loaded worked well too, with no noticeable difference to using pistol primers. I went back to pistol primers on 9mm for more trustworthy ignition, not that any of the 9mm with rifle primers failed to go off first time.

You can really use any components together if they fit, and you start from a very minimum and safe load, and TEST and CHECK all the way to a load you're happy with. Of course combining components that there are no recipes for should be done with more equipment than the average reloader has, but that hasn't stopped PLENTY of people doing just that, and successfully, for the most part.

EDIT: I'm not saying the last part to convince anyone to try these things themselves, just that it can, and has been done, with no ill effects.

jcwit
December 2, 2012, 08:19 AM
Correct Route, many many things are told to us not t do that are perfectly OK. If one reads their owners manuals throughly most manufactures manuals state "Do not shoot reloads, it will void your warranty". Most of these warning's are lawyer motivated I believe.

kingmt
December 2, 2012, 01:18 PM
I don't have the link but read one of CCIs write ups of there primer knowledge. The related pistil primes burn rate to be a fast punch & rifle to be slow & long. Much like we at powder. I think it a 22 Hornet that after testing decided SPP were a better choice then rifle because the neck tension wasn't enough to hold the bullet in place until the power was lite enough to keep the bullet moving. They said that there pressure readings shoes that the bullet getting drove into the lande then stopping until the pressure of the powder caused the second spike.

I've used both pistol in rifle & rifle in pistol without seeing a difference.

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