Hunting Guest from Heck


November 20, 2012, 04:04 PM
This is a very long post, but well worth it; IMHO

I need some feedback from some fellow High Roaders to see if my frustration and concern is warranted or if I am being unrealistic and unforgiving. I invited a co-worker, whom I don’t know very well, to hunt on my in-law’s 200 acres. I just started this job in August and came to learn he was a hunter; or so he said. The close friend who has gone with me the past several years was out of town and I do not like solo hunting for various reasons. The hunting is excellent and when weather conditions are right you are pretty much guaranteed a deer. We have a lot of deer. The rules are guests can take a doe but only family are allowed to take a buck. Everyone we have ever invited is fine with that.

Well I thought I would invite this guy since he said he has no place to hunt but has supposedly hunted hogs, deer, turkey, geese etc. in the past. He asked me what to bring, so I told him all he needed to bring was two bags of deer corn, a bottle of scent killer (my stand is 50 yards from the feeder), and whatever food and drinks he would need except for dinner on Friday night since I was grilling burgers and had already bought everything for that meal. He could split the cost with me on dinner. I live on a tight budget. We also planned on some hog hunting at night, and I told him to bring appropriate equipment for that. He said he had hunted hogs before, so I did not bother to suggest a light for his rifle.

Something inside me told me to take separate trucks in case he needed to leave early or I wanted to stay another day. That turned out to be a very wise decision. Anyway, we get to the farm and I asked him for the corn since I needed to put some out. He said he did not get any because he did not have time. It was Sunday and I told him on Thursday. He said he was at Wal-Mart that day and saw the deer corn but did not have time to get it. :what: He said we could run to the store and get some, but the closest store with deer corn was 20 miles away. I then asked about scent killer. I had a bottle for myself but I go through it pretty quick. He said he looked in the detergent isle but could not find any and had never heard of it. I am not making this up. I politely explained what it was and where he would have found it. I asked him if he had any food that needed to be put up. He had not brought any food or drink. :uhoh: So then I asked what gun he could be using to hunt hogs at NIGHT. He said his Remington Model 770 .30-06 which he had only fired once. He had no light for it, so I let him borrow a really nice flashlight that has 144 lumens but I did not know how it would handle the recoil being taped directly to the barrel of a .30-06. My AR has an awesome green LED light that shines out to 250 yards, but I use a pressure switch to activate it which does not help him when he needs it, and the beam is not wide enough for two rifles when the hogs start spreading out.

We did not see any hogs, but we saw a skunk in one of our pastures about 200 yards out so this guy says he is going to shoot it. Fine, whatever. Well he shoulders his rifle with my high-dollar, high-powered flashlight on his barrel and squeezes the trigger. Nothing happens. He starts messing with the bolt, the safety, the box magazine and keeps squeezing the trigger. Still nothing happens. All this time, the skunk is coming straight for the light, and us, so I tell him we either need to shoot the skunk or leave because we are downwind from him in a pretty strong breeze and I really don’t want to shoot him if he gets any closer. So I start to shoot at it, and I’m so disgusted at this point that I can’t hit the broad side of a barn. Fortunately for the skunk and us, I missed four shots before quitting.:banghead:

The next morning we go deer hunting. I told him he could have the first doe since he was the guest. I would help him harvest the deer, take it back to our trailer and hang it so he could field dress it and quarter it while I went back to the stand to wait for my doe. Of course, he had not brought any knives to dress his deer with but that turned out not to matter. About 7:30 four doe come to the feeder. Three are shooters. The biggest one is a little nervous and goes into the woods and returns a few times. The other two stay the entire time. The second largest one is not nervous at all and stands broadside for several minutes if not 15, but this guy does not shoot. He was waiting for the largest one to turn broadside but it was not going to happen. I “suggested” he take the other one because she was not much smaller than the other one, but he did not. I tried to hint politely that this may be the only shot he gets. It was almost 60 degrees and they were not going to be moving much longer. Just two days earlier when I was hunting by myself it had been 34 degrees and I saw 13 doe by 8am and five of them were nice shooters. So far we had only seen four doe and one button buck, and it was 26 degrees warmer, so I knew this might the only chance for him and me. Well, he had his rifle shouldered for a long time but farted around until they all left. That was that. The funny thing is he had asked if he could harvest 2 doe the night before, which I thought was presumptuous, but he can’t even pull the trigger on one.:confused:

Later we are walking down a road where I used to have a stand and was showing him the deer trails. I saw the hind end of a deer flash about 40 yards in front of me, so we knelt down on the road in case more deer were following. A big eight point steps out in the road and sees us. He does not run but turns and walks directly towards us! He was still in rut. He probably came within 30 yards, and stared directly at us. We both had time to look through our scopes a few times and talk about him before he calmly turned and walked away in the woods the direction of the other deer. I had just taken a really nice eight point two days earlier, so I was done for the season as far as a large buck. Our county allows for two bucks per season but only one can have an inside spread greater than 13 inches. My friend suggested that I shoot the deer and use his tag. I'm sure he thought he was being kind, but that comment sealed the deal for me. Inside I wanted to explode, but I calmly said “No, I have my buck, and I will leave him for the family or for next year if he makes it.” At that point, I was done hunting and just wanted him to leave. As it turned out, he had to leave before the afternoon hunt, so we went back to the trailer and began to clean up. I washed dishes while he read my NRA hunting magazine and ate my food.:fire:

My wife thinks I over-reacted to him suggesting I shoot the buck and use his tag. She says he just may not be convicted about that yet. I think his statement speaks to an overall character flaw that reflects his overall worldview. There were so many issues with this guy that I don’t know where to begin. Not bringing what he was asked to bring, not being able to operate his weapon, not shooting a doe when he had ample opportunity, not helping clean up the mess he helped to make, suggesting I take a deer illegally, etc.

So fellow High Roaders, am I being unrealistic? As my guest, should I be expected to feed him, clean for him etc. even when he had been told ahead of time what he needed to bring. I was never intentionally rude to this guy, but I’m sure my body language let on that I was put out. I had just shot a large eight-point two days earlier, so the only reason I went on this trip was I had already invited him and wanted to honor my word. You really get to know someone when you go hunting.

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November 20, 2012, 04:13 PM
All i can say is, you're a generous guy. I wouldn't dream of inviting anyone hunting without swinging by the range with them first and seeing they know how to handle a gun (and it's zeroed!), among other prerequisites.

November 20, 2012, 05:31 PM
My first out of state hunting trip was with my dad and another guy, that 'other guy' had invited me and I said I'd like to ask my dad and he said ok, the more the merrier. Turns out that other guy was a class above 'class A butthole' and treated me like a 2nd class citizen and my dad like a 4th class citizen. Bad enough that 600 miles away my dad and I almost bought a truck to drive back simply to not have to deal with him anymore. I'd known this guy a tad over a year or so, that was in '06 and we haven't spoken a kind word since.

Since then I'm leery on who goes on a hunting trip, I give them the mountainside test....... which consists of 'if given the opportunity free a clear before God and man, would I want to throw this guy off the side of a mountain or not?'

November 20, 2012, 05:33 PM
I had a similar experience many years ago. I learned that a guy who talks a good game in town may not be able to 'walk the walk' in the bush. Since then I always make it a point to do a bit of informal shooting and maybe an overnighter somewhere before allowing a new friend to come onto my lease.

This practice has saved me a lot of grief and frustration over the years. Maybe its a bit standoffish, but suffering with loutish companions when there is no escape is a hellish experience.

Ron in Texas

November 20, 2012, 06:04 PM
You were polite. I would have told him to go home and get what he forgot or didn't have time for.
I invited a casual acquaintance for a dove shoot on my dinky little 2 acre field last month. I told him it would only accommodate 4 people and two others were invited plus us two. He showed up with his buddy and asked if I minded. I told him they would have to sit together and I didn't like hunting with people I didn't know. I explained, "NO LOW BIRDS!!!"
This buddy of his has a motor mouth and has "been everywhere and shot everything". He didn't shoot his gun at anyone but he sure pointed it at us enough. When The other guests and I limited out, I had enough and told them, "Hunt's Over." The guy I knew had 7 birds, the motor mouth had shot 3 boxes of shells and had 4 birds. I went and got the truck, loaded everything up including their stuff and told them to get in if they wanted a ride. "We want to still hunt." I said, "Nope, hunt's over - unload your guns."

I won't be inviting him again.

November 20, 2012, 07:01 PM
Sounds like I am not overreacting based on the first few replies. The ONLY reason I did not escort him to our front gate is we work together and I must have a good relationship with him at work. That being said, we will not be being spend any quality time together off the clock.

Birdhunter1; I can't imagine being at the mercy of a guy like that 600 miles from home.

November 20, 2012, 07:20 PM
Wow. People that can't follow simple directions don't need to be around me. You did the right thing though, you work with him, gotta be nice. However, start to become good at making excuses or reasons why you can't hunt every time he wants to go with you.

November 20, 2012, 07:40 PM
You might want to teach him the right way. I am a born teacher and love to show people who think they have it figured out how it should be done. It takes a lot of patience but can be rewarding if you can get through to them. This guy made you think he knew what he was doing but apparently had no clue of what was involved.
Invite him back on your terms and see if you can turn him into a hunter. My main hunting buddy started hunting at a late age (mid-40s) and got started with running dogs. He was completely clueless about still hunting and stand hunting but did no twant to admit his ignorance. It took him a couple of months to understand that it is better to ask than to make a mistake.
I got into duck hunting in Arkansas a few years ago and the guys I originally went with just assumed that I knew what I was doing because I have been hunting deer and turkey my entire life as well as some duck hunting here in Alabama. It took some doing for me to convince them that I was a novice and needed guidance with basic things like equipment and how to break ice without breaking my neck. We rarely get any ice where I live. How do you know who killed the duck when three people shoot at the same time? The guy who owns the land shot it of course.
One other option is to tell him to go away and never come back. I have done that one also.

November 20, 2012, 07:42 PM
I have never hunted with anyone that I haven't known for ages. But as a farm family member, I get lots of requests to go hunting on our family land. Most want to "come along", but since I'm the only one that hunts, and very rarely at that, it hasn't happened yet. I can say that 75-80% of the people we have let hunt on our ground unescorted, have been train wrecks. Greedy, over-reaching, un-thoughtful jerks for the most part. Most start out great, but devolve the more years they are alowed to return. Heck, we had two guys that couldn't get along on 160 acres.

November 20, 2012, 07:56 PM
You might want to teach him the right way. I am a born teacher and love to show people who think they have it figured out how it should be done.

That is a valid point which I did consider. However, some of his issues had nothing to do with hunting and spoke of just plain laziness and lack of consideration. I'll teach a 40 year-old man how to hunt but I'm not going to teach him basic manners and common courtesy. Heck, we are both educators, so I expected more out of him. Guess that is a perfect example of the danger of assuming.

November 20, 2012, 08:04 PM
Look at the bright side.

November 20, 2012, 08:11 PM
Look at the bright side.

There are several bright sides or lessons to be learned, but would you care to expound?

November 20, 2012, 08:34 PM
This is the other end of it. In 1966 another NCO and I on two weeks leave riding DT1 yamahas out of Ft Lee, Va were in the Pensylvania foothills had the local "Constable" come into the restraunt we were having lunch in. He had noticed the 22 rifles we had strapped to the bikes. After talking awhile over coffee he told us where to find a boarding house and said he would pass by later. We were wearing class A khaki uniform as everything else was dirty and we also needed a laundramat. Boarding house had a call before we got there and the worlds crankiest lady read us the riot act over being late for meals or trashy behavior. We unpacked and the Constable showed up and told us we could go out and talk to a local farmer about squirrel hunting the next day. By then it was dinnertime so we made sure we got there and were polite. Back to our room and our clothes were missing, Charlie went to check and got told that we were slobs, our clothes were stinking up the whole boarding house and they were in the wash. Nothing else was really missing so we went to bed. Next day our laundry was folded and at our door. We were in time for breakfast, said thank you and were given directions again to the farm. On getting out there the farmer told us where to find a big bottom full of trees and not to shoot his live stock. Over about 4 hours we filled a sack full of squirrels, went back, cleaned them, gave the offal to the hogs and the squirrels to the farmer. He told us to be back out by 6 am the next day and back to town we went. Lunch at the cafe and then we told the lady where we were staying we would be gone before breakfast. Next day we were there at about quarter to six and the farmer gave us breakfast got out three shotguns and we went after pheasant and quail. Worried me as we did NOT have a liscense or tags. We cleaned birds and gave to the farmer who made us promise to be there for dinner and said he would call and square it with our landlady. We hunted for the next four days and never did get tags, landlady would not take money for laundry, and the majority of the time had breakfast and dinner at the places we hunted.
Now let me add, my folks were Missouri farmers and my father taught me early the first day's kill from every one hunting belonged to the man who worked the land, you treat the land and stock as if it were your own, the last day of hunting you take the farmer a fifth of good whiskey, you take his wife a five pound box of choclates. Charlie's folks were ranchers in Tulare. I was 19 then and Charlie was 20. To this day I still do like Dad said. I have made a lot of friends that I have made and though I don't hunt all that much, outside of Safeway, I am still welcome in quite a few places where there are no hunting signs.


Art Eatman
November 20, 2012, 08:35 PM
The guy ignored all the instructions about what to bring, for starters. "Didn't have time"? Tuff stuff, make time; it's a freebie hunt!

Fumblitis with the rifle in the skunk deal? That right there says, "No mas!" I don't want to be around a fumble-fingers guy.

As for the tag, SFAIK a lot of folks don't worry about that, or they really think they're being a nice guy. I'd have said, "No," also, maybe adding a thank-you out of common courtesy. I might have quiet comments for him later, though. The "Hey, something you might think about, about tags and laws and losing hunting rights." routine.

On balance, just staying quiet was the best way to handle it. You already have figured out to not have him back.

November 20, 2012, 08:36 PM
That is a valid point which I did consider. However, some of his issues had nothing to do with hunting and spoke of just plain laziness and lack of consideration. I'll teach a 40 year-old man how to hunt but I'm not going to teach him basic manners and common courtesy. Heck, we are both educators, so I expected more out of him. Guess that is a perfect example of the danger of assuming.
I think you hit the nail on the head there. On top of that, if he thinks he is an excellent hunter, he may not be willing to take your advice and education.

On the other hand, the way he acted in general seemed like he may have been ignorant of hunting and may have no experience, but wanted to befriend and impress you. If he seems like a decent guy otherwise, I would probably invite him over for the game and a beer on occasion. If he reciprocates and the friendship progresses, you can bring up hunting again and he might be more receptive to your advice.

November 20, 2012, 08:43 PM
Nah, you didnt over react, especially if its not your place. Sounds to me like you keep yor composure, and handled it pretty well. But as stated before, its a good policy to shoot with someone before you take them hunting, at least make them "check to see if their rifle is sighted in" to see their firearm handling skills before you take them hunting.

November 20, 2012, 08:48 PM
blindhari, thanks for sharing your experience. That is how service members should be treated, and I would love the opportunity to take one hunting. I would foot the bill for the entire hunt and would not ask for a thing in return. However, I don't see any correlation to your experience and mine. The locals wanted to bless you and your buddy who were active military, and in return you were a gracious guest who was deeply moved and are paying it forward.

I was just trying to do a fellow co-worker a favor who claimed to be an experienced hunter with no place to hunt.

November 20, 2012, 08:52 PM
There are several bright sides or lessons to be learned, but would you care to expound?
He coulda done any of an infinite number of things to have made it worse. there's always that

November 20, 2012, 09:13 PM
He coulda done any of an infinite number of things to have made it worse. there's always that

You are very correct, my friend. We both made it out alive. As the Scriptures say, "Give thanks in all things."

It certainly made me more appreciative of the friend whom I normally take hunting with me.

November 20, 2012, 09:44 PM
I am a perpetual "guest" at a farm where I am fortunate enough to hunt. I was invited by, believe it or not, the owner's wife's EX-husband(they were best friends in high school - don't ask, my hands will cramp before I can write out the whole story). I made certain I did more than my "fair" share of work the first 5 years, and instituted an annual "project" where ALL of the guests(4 of us) did something to benefit the owner. We've constructed and raised the buck pole, made from 6x6 cedar and 6 winches. We've replaced the water heater. We've sided the house, painted the interior, installed a yard light, etc. all at zero cost to the owner.

He passed away last year, but his widow has told me thatr both I and my family are always welcome. In fact, I received a key this year.

People that treat a privilege as a right are not the type of people I prefer to be around.

November 20, 2012, 10:00 PM
sleepyone -
the guy is a mooch, a leech, and a loser. I'd add liar, but maybe he's just totally ignorant. I would not waste anymore time on him myself. Just common courtesy that when you receive an invite like that, you bring your host the steaks and beer. Life is too short to not enjoy hunting... now to be charitable, if - in the future - you see signs at work that he is improving, you may reconsider. If anything at all, I'd possibly do a trip to the range for some target shooting, but I'd really need to warm up to the guy a lot, first...

November 21, 2012, 01:19 AM
Helping those who don't know diddly about firearms,
I spent 2 saturdays a month going Range Officer on the left for a local range. What the range did for me was give me 2 hours on Sunday to teach Explorer Scouts to shoot rimfire at no charge for range use. What I got out of it was being able to teach without pressure. Started with a trip to the range, an hour teaching safety and two hours on the fire line with me riding herd on some times over eager Kids. All my time, all my scrounging, all the frustration was worth it. Our son and three others in his Boy Scout troop made Eagle, graduated High School and moved in to a house down by the Marina together. First rule for this Animal House was no firearms whatsoever, thier house, thier rules. They are thirty now, still friends, all married and each has decided for thier own house no firearms. They made that choice with a full grounding and relying on their experience.
Helping someone learn to hunt, to shoot is something I enjoy. There are times when it is impossible to teach because of people with preconceptions. I think it has to start with weapon familiarization, go to controlled range fire, field target shooting and then hunting under controlled conditions. Like Sheriff Andy Taylor, don't give him more than one bullet and keep an eye out that he doesn't misuse it. The guy you are talking about would have to go through these steps or I would not be around him hunting, range or work.


Art Eatman
November 21, 2012, 09:35 AM
blindhari, you're correct, but that doesn't apply to an adult co-worker who has claimed a past history of successful hunting.

November 21, 2012, 10:19 AM
Uggh...This post reminds me greatly of past mistakes I made when I was much younger by inviting unproven guys to go hunting with me.
No more.
Half of them cant shoot and the half that sort of can dont know the first thing about field dressing the animal let alone washing dishes,cooking,or how to unplug the commode they just stopped up.
No more!!

November 21, 2012, 10:28 AM
I am not Holy Joe or perfect in anyway, but I follow a few simple rules when I am a guest.
First of all, I have hunted for many years with my uncle, a few friends and my brother. We have a very specific way of doing things and what to bring, who brings what, how much, etc. So when I am a guest, I ask lots of questions before the hunt. As I am a guest, I want to conform to the host's routine. What to bring, when to show up, etc.
Example: I went on a bear hunt to Canada with a group of 3 guys that all hunt together. So I am the odd man to these three. I went over all I could think of before we left to make sure it was seemless for them having me along. They said each of us brings a case of beer for the evening around the fire, I brought two cases. They said each person brings burger or bratwurst enough for the group for two nights of dinner, I brought steaks for two nights. We take turns driving for 4 hours. I drove for 8 hours shifts so they could sleep. Some might say i was going too far out of my way, but again, I am the guest. I wanted to make sure they knew how much I appreciated being invited on their normal hunt and that I was worthy of being invited back. And I was invited back.
I can handle my gun, know my firearms safety, etc. so the hunting itself was no issue.

November 21, 2012, 06:49 PM
klcmschlesinger, you are welcome to hunt as my guest anytime! I like my steaks medium, please.

November 21, 2012, 06:56 PM
Always wanted to hunt in Texas!! Medium it is.....

November 21, 2012, 08:20 PM
Finding hunting companions that mirror one's ethics and tactics is like finding a motorcycling companion that shares the same passions and skill level. It's a tough row to hoe and when you find them you appreciate them. I quit asking folks to come along hunting unless they are family years ago. I don't get enough time anymore to enjoy the outdoors, much less waste that time being annoyed and disappointed. I realize now there's a reason those folks have no place to hunt or no one else to go with.

November 21, 2012, 08:36 PM
Finding hunting companions that mirror one's ethics and tactics is like finding a motorcycling companion that shares the same passions and skill level.

That is so true. I used to ride years ago, so I can relate to that. I had a really good friend who also had a bike. We got along great except when we rode because his bike was a Harley clone that could never keep up with my crotch rocket. I was the hare and he was the tortoise.

I have tried to invite people who don't have a place to hunt over the years when my good friend and regular hunting partner could not make it, but I think from now on I will go solo or just wait until he is available.

Double Naught Spy
November 21, 2012, 10:42 PM
My wife thinks I over-reacted to him suggesting I shoot the buck and use his tag.

I don't think your frustration is over-reacting, but suggesting that you shoot the buck and use his tag would definitely be illegal.

So not only was a bad guest, didn't follow instructions, wasn't the hunter he claimed to be, but also suggested that you go in cahoots with him on poaching.

I would never have him back.

November 21, 2012, 11:22 PM
I tend to dislike people that talk or act like they are better at something then they actually are. People that are humble about there experiences and aren't braggarts tend to be people that are not going to treat you like the guest in the OP. Good mannered people are generally good mannered about everything.

I rarely go shooting with new people anymore. Its not worth the hassle and the chance of death.

November 27, 2012, 03:17 PM
I usually wait to get to know someone before inviting them hunting, and even then, they got to do a day or two of work out on my property beforehand. Newest hunting buddy outworked me, ran a chainsaw better than me, and waited to kill a deer till I had one when season opened. He also dropped out of his stand to help me field dress, the deer. That was three years ago, and he is now the first invite every season. Not coincidentally, he is also a top notch fishing buddy.

Arkansas Paul
November 27, 2012, 03:41 PM
I invited a co-worker, whom I don’t know very well, to hunt on my in-law’s 200 acres.

There's the problem. I'm sure people will chime in that we should encourage others to hunt and to get into the shooting sports, and I agree. We can go to the range and you can shoot my guns and ammo all you want, but I'm picky about what guests I bring to deer camp. I feel that I am ultimately responsible for their actions, and that's not something I'm comfortable with.

November 27, 2012, 04:09 PM
You were very polite and even though I would have loved to have let him have it you didn't. Taking into consideration that it was in fact a co-worker there is a certain amount of consideration you will have to take, you do not really want to have awkward moments in the office. That does however mean that you should not have to feel obligated to take him again should he ask next year. There are some things fellow "Hunters" can teach one another including camp manners, and I would prefer have you teach him those manners instead of continuing to have individuals like that continue doing those types of things without ever really being confronted/ instructed. Hunting is a science IMO and if you feel there is never anything more you > (And I do not mean "You" I am using it generically)> can learn further than what is the point (Growing up half the fun was learning :)). I do not care how old the individual is or how much experience he/ she claims they have.... Doing things like that would make my head spin, but I would also like to believe that I could help them if I could.

This does explain a lot about some people and lack of preparedness and or personal responsibility/ pride. I know many people like that and sometimes I just do not think they will ever "GET IT!" :banghead:

November 27, 2012, 04:14 PM
but I'm picky about what guests I bring to deer camp.

deer camp is like bringing someone into your home and giving him access to whatever he wants, except in my case it was like bringing him into my in-laws home.

Arkansas Paul
November 27, 2012, 05:11 PM
^ Which is why you don't invite people you don't know very well. Let it be a lesson.

Double Naught Spy
November 27, 2012, 06:02 PM
You know, Paul, while I don't completely disagree with what you say, at the same time it is hard to get to know how somebody really does something if you aren't with them when they do it. So you can know them without knowing how they will be. Deer camp, or hunting in general isn't like being at home or work.

LOL, I took my BIL that I had known for more than 10 years on a pig hunt to my place. Luckily, we never saw pigs. Despite being an "experienced" hunter, he apparently didn't know squat about properly sighting in a rifle. I won't be having him back anytime soon.

November 27, 2012, 08:02 PM
Don't ever take anyone hunting that you haven't taken on a hike in fishing trip first. That's my motto, starting now.

November 28, 2012, 08:15 AM
I wanted to thank everyone for sharing their experiences and advice. It has helped me work through this experience and convinced me to take a different approach going forward. If this were my land, I might be more tolerant of bad behavior, but since it isn't, I can't afford to train or teach someone unless it is a member of my own family. What my experience taught me, and should teach everyone else reading this entire thread, is that those of us who have a place to hunt are greatly blessed and should treat the land, wildlife and landowners with the honor and respect they deserve. Nothing bad happened this time, but that may not be the case if a similar scenario were to unfold next time.

Art Eatman
November 28, 2012, 12:40 PM
Good closing comment...

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