S&W Sigma Trigger


PDA






Trent
November 23, 2012, 12:33 PM
Had some in-laws up from North Carolina over Thanksgiving, we went to the range all afternoon Wednesday. My Uncle had brought up several pieces, one of which was a new S&W Sigma.

While we were there, he handed me the firearm and said "take this and see what you think, I can't hold a group".

Ok. So I pick a clean target, line up my sights, pull the trigger.. keep pulling the trigger.. KEEP PULLING THE TRIGGER... My GOD what a long, heavy trigger pull.

Anyway I was able to put a great group together but it took a LOT of concentration and effort to overcome that hideous, nasty trigger and remain accurate..

What can be done about this? Any aftermarket parts you guys would recommend?

If you enjoyed reading about "S&W Sigma Trigger" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
fatcat4620
November 23, 2012, 12:43 PM
Remove the pig tail spring and polish the sear. Lots of info on how to do this on the web.

krupparms
November 23, 2012, 01:25 PM
Send it back to S&W . Tell them the trigger is very rough &gritty. They will smooth it up which should lighten it. Also Fatcat may be right, I have not tried that! But S&W has great CS. DEPT. The Sigma is real bargain I have owned 4 & everyone that has shot one of mine bought one. IMO a real bargain. Good luck!

smalls
November 23, 2012, 01:27 PM
S&W will get the "grittiness" out of it, while lightening it up a touch if you call them.

Anything else will void the warranty. But if you're not worried about that, search YouTube, there's plenty of tricks to lighten the pull. Do your research, I've heard some not working well, or being dangerous.

mljdeckard
November 23, 2012, 03:51 PM
I will never advise someone to start taking parts out a trigger setup.

I am a bit baffled that S&W would knowingly keep selling a gun with a lousy trigger, and yet fix it for free anytime anyone complains about it.

My Sigma was the worst handgun I have ever owned. The trigger feels like a knotted rubber band being interminably stretched over a ledge. This is a good argument for either test-firing every gun before you buy it, or listening to people when they tell you that "It's a cool-looking gun, but it's set up for police departments that don't trust their officers to carry guns with normal triggers." (Which I didn't.)

Walkalong
November 23, 2012, 05:12 PM
The newer SD9VE and SD40VE (http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_619089_-1__?Ntt=sigma&Ntk=All) guns look much like the older Sigma (http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_126603_-1__?Ntt=sigma&Ntk=All), and are the same price, but the trigger is smooth and light. Long, yes, but nice, kind of like a nice DA revolver.

My son shot his SD40VE today on our range trip while I tested a some loads before shooting some .32 Mag wadcutter loads for fun.

Onward Allusion
November 23, 2012, 05:24 PM
Nothing should be done to it. It's made that way for a reason - safety. . . If you want a lighter trigger, go with a Glock or a XDm. It sounds like you were able to master it. Shoot revolver much?

EBK
November 23, 2012, 09:46 PM
Apex Gunparts makes a spring kit for the SIGMA that will lighten and smooth out the trigger.
They claim it brings the pull down to about 7-8 pounds. The Pigtail spring someone suggested you remove is only there to increase the trigger pull weight, removing this will also make a world of difference.

They also make one for the SD series. I own A SD40 VE and put the Apex trigger kit in it and it made a huge difference.


Here is a link to the spring kit https://apextactical.com/store/product-list.php?pg1-cid21.html

ROGER4314
November 23, 2012, 10:44 PM
I have 4 Sigmas- 3 in 9mm and one is 40 S&W. I do not have a problem with the trigger pull and have 2 of them loaded as my house guns. If the trigger pull is difficult for you then PRACTICE with the pistol until it works. My trigger pulls are 10 pounds. They are long and a bit heavy but easily managed.

The Sigma is a no frills gun that is totally reliable and easily mastered if you practice. I may choose a 1911 for a bullseye gun over the Sigma but that's not surprising as Sigmas were designed for SD use.

Flash

EBK
November 23, 2012, 10:57 PM
I have 4 Sigmas- 3 in 9mm and one is 40 S&W. I do not have a problem with the trigger pull and have 2 of them loaded as my house guns. If the trigger pull is difficult for you then PRACTICE with the pistol until it works. My trigger pulls are 10 pounds. They are long and a bit heavy but easily managed.

The Sigma is a no frills gun that is totally reliable and easily mastered if you practice. I may choose a 1911 for a bullseye gun over the Sigma but that's not surprising as Sigmas were designed for SD use.

Flash
Practice does not overcome a tendon graft from your left foot to your right index (tigger) finger Such is my case. I have lost range of motion in that finger.

Some people need lighter triggers than others for legitimate reasons. If it works great for you thats good. It may not work as great for the next person. Just something you should keep in mind.

mljdeckard
November 24, 2012, 01:26 AM
Or....get a gun with a trigger you run better? I could go along with the idea of; "It's what you have, so learn to use it" if there were no other choice. But there are. MANY.

breacher
November 24, 2012, 01:26 AM
after 5k rds thru my Sigma SW9VE I could do chin-ups with just my trigger finger on the bar.

after I broke the 3rd remote to my TV while changing channels I decided to let it go.

it was 100% percent reliable though and pretty accurate if I did my part, but my part took a lot of effort compared to any of my other semi-autos. I'm much faster on a steel plate rack with any Glock, my Steyr M40, or CZ75.

I had pulled the pig-tail spring and the heavier outer spring on the dual trigger return setup I think? polished some things and got the trigger almost like a Glock with a NY trigger, which I hate. But I only paid $250. with the rebate S&W had going a few years back. OK pistol for that price but I wouldn't buy another.

Trent
November 24, 2012, 01:42 AM
Nothing should be done to it. It's made that way for a reason - safety. . . If you want a lighter trigger, go with a Glock or a XDm. It sounds like you were able to master it. Shoot revolver much?

I do shoot revolvers and the trigger did feel a lot like a long double action. (Actually, felt an awful lot like the 38 special my wife uses in length of pull, except the Sigma felt gritty and not at all smooth like my wife's gun).

My uncle (remember, this isn't MY gun I'm asking about), is a bit spoiled. His main gun is a Sig Sauer with a beautiful trigger. :)

I figured I'd ask on here and shoot him a text later with a recommendation, he'll be on his way to N.C. again tomorrow. His complaint wasn't so much the weight of the pull (he's an auto mechanic and has arms/wrists/fingers built like a tree trunk), but rather, the length of the pull.

It doesn't sound like that's solvable.

Before we were done at the range, I told him I'd look in to it, but my recommendation is "if you don't like it, sell it and get something different. No law out there that says you have to like every gun you buy, or keep them all."

Think I'll just stick by that recommendation.

Dnaltrop
November 24, 2012, 02:09 AM
The wife got sick of the grit in her trigger on her 9VE. Was so bad you could hear the grinding noise from a few feet away. S&W cleared it up very rapidly.

It's much improved (though not as much as the new triggers they're using) but now a bit light for her taste.

Not really a gun I'd pick, but she loves the little thing.

MaterDei
November 24, 2012, 07:58 AM
I bought a Sigma in the pre-Youtube and aftermarket trigger days, I'm afraid. I really wanted to like it. I paid under $300 for it. I sold it.

My father and I both bought polymer pistols on the same day. I bought the Sigma and he bought an HS2000. I'm still kicking myself for not picking up a $279 HS2000.

longknife12
November 24, 2012, 08:12 AM
When they first came out, against the advise of several LEO friends, I bought a .40. I proved them right. The most impossible trigger I ever tried. Sent it back to Smith twice, they returned it twice.Finally, sold it, never again! I'm no stranger to handguns, I have 50+ years with simi's and revolvers, including a number of years of competetion.JMO.
Dan
:eek:

Bullet Bob
November 24, 2012, 09:21 AM
I've had one sine the "VE" models came out in the 90's, it's my vehicle gun.

At least if I have to shoot someone with it, I know it won't be by accident :cool:

hardluk1
November 24, 2012, 10:00 AM
Trent, Run a forum search and that would have given you a pile of info on the sw40 and 9ve Many first returning them to fix the "gritty" trigger. Then you can follow what people have learn from videos to make it very nice for a cost not to excede 8 bucks with shipping.

One of our house guns is a sw40ve and it did smooth up and lighten a bit after 100 rounds or soo. But after a 20 minute home tune up it now has a nice 6lb 2oz 1000 roundto date reliable too. trigger pull.

The LOP on that sig is longer and pull weight is heavier on atleast the first DA pull. If he can't deal with it sell it. Some can't understand a different trigger type of trigger function. The lenght of reach on my 40ve is 2.674 with the trigger forword and a reset .18" shorter. Even my 5-3 daughter can shoot ours fine. Maybe its more of ahead game with a very different trigger design. Sigs DA/SA compared to a glock/sigma type striker trigger. I think the stock sw40ve is compairable to glock with a 10lb NY trigger!!! Think sw40ve but with a longer reach

Trent
November 24, 2012, 10:48 AM
Yeah I've read lots of bad stuff about it in the past, but never had the pleasure of firing one first hand.

Had a friend who was dead set on buying a Sigma a few months ago (coworker), we went gun shopping over lunch one day and I found him a nice used Glock 23 at a pawn shop for $400. Looked brand spanking new (even had the factory grease still on the back of the slide), and had nice aftermarket sights on it. Was at the upper end of his price range but a steal of a deal. I said "buy this, dude, or I'm going to."

He bought it. :)

ccsniper
December 13, 2012, 08:21 AM
gonna revive this to put in my .02 cents. I used to do a lot of shooting with a nagant revolver, if you complain about the sigma, then you ain't neva fired a nagant! Trigger pull is somewhere around 25 lbs. I never shot it very well, but I also could barely afford to do so. Also got a friend with a polish p64, trigger pull is worse than the nagant. Needless to say, I shoot sigma's very well.

fatcat4620
December 13, 2012, 11:27 AM
Other than ditch the pig tail and polish everything I also changed out the outer return spring with one from a click pen. The trigger feel was much like a glock factory trigger but a little heavier.

lathedog
December 13, 2012, 03:15 PM
Don't remove any springs. You will find lots of threads on the 'net advising this, and I can tell you from experience that it does not work as described. On my Sigma it resulted in the gun cycling closed onto a live round with a slack trigger - as if fired. This is known as "following" and is a failure condition, not an improvement. Beware of people on the internet with lots of advice but they probably don't even own the firearm in question; they just like to sound like an expert. I am leery of anyone that spends all day posting responses to forum posts; when do they have time to actually work on guns and shoot them?

I spent a lot of time with my Sigma disassembled, and compared to Glock and XD trigger set ups. They are all similar in concept but the heavy pull on a Sigma is designed in and would need a complete re-work to change significantly. The heavy pull is related to the distance that the trigger bar has to draw the striker back, the angles of the camming surfaces, and the strength of the mainspring that powers the striker/firing pin.

I tried to identify places to polish or smooth, but most are plastic and already quite smooth, or else thin plated parts (already pretty smooth) that looked like I could bust thru the plating with a stone in 5 or 6 strokes. I was worried about light strikes if I lightened the mainspring. In the end I left everything alone and focused on my trigger press.

I'm sure it is possible to make a new trigger kit with slightly different bearing surface angles, etc, to get a lighter pull. I do not believe that there is a way to lighten the pull with OEM parts without a negative impact to safety or functional reliability.

All the above is based on my experience with my Sigma. Maybe you have one with burrs on the parts, or dirt/grime from lots of use, etc. In either event do yourself a favor and don't remove parts in the belief that some assembler at S&W was cleverly reducing their overstock of little springs by installing them in random places in their guns just to get rid of them.

lobo9er
December 13, 2012, 03:25 PM
worst trigger i have felt. I cant believe S&W are still shipping them. They are that bad.

lobo9er
December 13, 2012, 03:36 PM
No matter what the item is, when you need to buy another product to make the item work normally best just to buy something that already works right. A good friend of mine bought one and it 'erks me S&W hasn't stepped up, its beyond where it is heavy just to be safe. Its nothing like any revolver I have shot. just a little rant and my $0.02.

fatcat4620
December 13, 2012, 05:02 PM
Don't remove any springs. You will find lots of threads on the 'net advising this, and I can tell you from experience that it does not work as described. On my Sigma it resulted in the gun cycling closed onto a live round with a slack trigger - as if fired. This is known as "following" and is a failure condition, not an improvement. Beware of people on the internet with lots of advice but they probably don't even own the firearm in question; they just like to sound like an expert. I am leery of anyone that spends all day posting responses to forum posts; when do they have time to actually work on guns and shoot them?

I spent a lot of time with my Sigma disassembled, and compared to Glock and XD trigger set ups. They are all similar in concept but the heavy pull on a Sigma is designed in and would need a complete re-work to change significantly. The heavy pull is related to the distance that the trigger bar has to draw the striker back, the angles of the camming surfaces, and the strength of the mainspring that powers the striker/firing pin.

I tried to identify places to polish or smooth, but most are plastic and already quite smooth, or else thin plated parts (already pretty smooth) that looked like I could bust thru the plating with a stone in 5 or 6 strokes. I was worried about light strikes if I lightened the mainspring. In the end I left everything alone and focused on my trigger press.

I'm sure it is possible to make a new trigger kit with slightly different bearing surface angles, etc, to get a lighter pull. I do not believe that there is a way to lighten the pull with OEM parts without a negative impact to safety or functional reliability.

All the above is based on my experience with my Sigma. Maybe you have one with burrs on the parts, or dirt/grime from lots of use, etc. In either event do yourself a favor and don't remove parts in the belief that some assembler at S&W was cleverly reducing their overstock of little springs by installing them in random places in their guns just to get rid of them.

What spring set up were you running when your sigma malfunctioned? I know if you go to light on the return spring (like only running the little one) you can get failure to reset. You may have been riding the trigger like you can with a glock right in the sweet spot.

DNS
December 13, 2012, 05:43 PM
Yes the triggers heavy on purpose.
Lots of lawsuits over the years on Glocks light triggers and lack of an external safety. Smith wanted to avoid that on their copy.

You mod the trigger and they aren't held responsible which was pretty smart on their part.

EBK
December 13, 2012, 06:47 PM
worst trigger i have felt. I cant believe S&W are still shipping them. They are that bad.
They're not shipping any more IIRC

As far as I know the SD series has replaced the SW series and is improved in many ways including a lighter trigger pull.

hentown
December 13, 2012, 07:08 PM
Lots of lawsuits over the years on Glocks light triggers and lack of an external safety. Smith wanted to avoid that on their copy.

You mod the trigger and they aren't held responsible which was pretty smart on their part.
__________________

Bet you can't cite one of those "lots of cases" regarding Glocks and their 5-6#, "light" triggers and/or "lack of external safeties. "

The Stigma trigger wasn't designed to be horrible due to any legal concerns. It was just designed to be horrible, because they didn't know any better.

Onward Allusion
December 13, 2012, 07:20 PM
Gotta love the Interweb. . . BTW, not saying that it is the way it should be... Just wanted to point out that almost anything can be brought into a lawsuit. BTW, it took all of 1 minute to find the articles.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Judge-allows-paralyzed-dad-to-sue-Glock-3732408.php

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2000/01/light-triggers-hefty-profits

http://www.wlsam.com/Article.asp?id=2118286&spid=

MrBill120
December 13, 2012, 09:11 PM
Apex Tactical makes a spring kit. I might be installing one in a friend's Sigma 9.

fatcat4620
December 13, 2012, 09:15 PM
Gotta love the Interweb. . . BTW, not saying that it is the way it should be... Just wanted to point out that almost anything can be brought into a lawsuit. BTW, it took all of 1 minute to find the articles.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Judge-allows-paralyzed-dad-to-sue-Glock-3732408.php

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2000/01/light-triggers-hefty-profits

http://www.wlsam.com/Article.asp?id=2118286&spid=

I didn't read every word but I did not see anywhere that these lawsuits were successful. I also looks like in each instance the gun fired when the trigger was pulled and I see no fault to glock as their gun performed as intended. What did notice was there are a lot of cops with poor trigger control who let their children have access to their sidearms.

smalls
December 13, 2012, 09:31 PM
Bet you can't cite one of those "lots of cases" regarding Glocks and their 5-6#, "light" triggers and/or "lack of external safeties. "

A California court just said that a cop could sue Glock because it had no external safeties. The officer's son shot himself after finding it under the seat in his car.

Hasn't gone to court yet, though.

fatcat4620
December 13, 2012, 09:49 PM
A California court just said that a cop could sue Glock because it had no external safeties. The officer's son shot himself after finding it under the seat in his car.

Hasn't gone to court yet, though.
The guy already lost the suit once. They said he can sue again..

If you enjoyed reading about "S&W Sigma Trigger" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!