Springfield V-10 Ultra Compact


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Denmark116
March 2, 2004, 10:01 PM
Anyone have any experience with the Springfield V-10 Ultra Compact?

I have a line on a very good deal on a new in box V-10, and I have been looking at getting a small 1911 style pistol... I think that the porting will help with the recoil that a hand cannon like a 3.5" .45 will have...

Additionally, they also gave a springfield ultra compact high capacity... However I cannot find any info on this and it is not in Springfield's current line-up... Anyone have any info on this?

I can get the V-10 50.00 more then I can get the mil-spec ultra compact and the high capacity is 20.00 less then the mil spec at the local gun shop (519.00)....

Please let me know....

Thanks

Denmark

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nemesis
March 2, 2004, 10:25 PM
I think that the porting will help with the recoil that a hand cannon like a 3.5" .45 will have

I don't think you'll find the mild recoil of the forty five objectionable. I have an Ultra-Compact, which is just Springfield's version of the Officers Model and has a 3.5 inch barrel. I believe that is identical to what you describe except that it lacks the porting and I am most thankful for that.

The gun is all steel and weighs about 40 ounces loaded. The recoil is negligable, even with +P loads. I cannot recommend porting, particularly for a carry gun. The noise is louder, the muzzle blast is pretty well objectionable and the vertical gas discharge could be a safety issue.

When I was searching for my PX9161L, I noted that the ported V-10 models were cheap, cheap, cheap. My guess is that they weren't moving well and the price was discounted to get them off the shelves. They don't sell them cheap enough for me to buy one.

Just my $.02.

TechBrute
March 2, 2004, 10:42 PM
Don't do it. The ultra compact 1911s have questionable reliability (not good for a carry gun) and porting is generally a bad idea for carry guns.

Denmark116
March 2, 2004, 10:53 PM
Are the V-10's really that bad??? seems to have a ton of extras and it is a sharp looking gun...

The other option is the SA ultra compact "loaded" (I think) hi-cap...

Any options on this one? I cannot find a product number on it..... :confused:

TechBrute
March 2, 2004, 10:56 PM
Still an ultra-compact. Still no.

Ankeny
March 2, 2004, 11:16 PM
I had a V-10 Ultra Compact. The operative word is "had". I bought it cheap because they wouldn't move. Mine was reliable, and easy to shoot, but the accuracy sucked. I spoke to the guys at SA and the admitted the gun would have accuracy issues because of the cut in the slide for the ports, but they figured accuracy wasn't an issue with a sawed off carry gun.

I got rid of the gun and went to a light weight commander sized pistol and I am glad I did. I have no use for a ported .45 with a 3.5 inch barrel (or any ported carry gun for that matter) and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. Of course, that's just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions, lol.

Quintin Likely
March 2, 2004, 11:55 PM
I've had the opportunity to tinker with a friend's Springer Ultra Compact (non V10 version) Even 600-700 rounds in, according to him anyways, reliability was questionable. I want to say that he sent it back to Springfield once, but my memory fails me at the moment, so I dunno. Reliability was kinda hit or miss. There were several return to battery failures. The slide would be like a 1/4" from going into battery, bump it and you're good to go. Wasn't very encouraging for a pistol that costs that much.

I'd step up to a Commander or full size Government model, but if you're really, really, really set on an Officer's sized 1911, just be advised that it may require a bit more fiddling to get it to work right. YMMV, of course.

Josey
March 3, 2004, 12:10 AM
I had one too. POJ, POS, POC and just plain no good. It had the extractor, mags, ejector and all springs replaced by Springfield, twice. I finally had to trade it/dump it at a gunshow for way less than I had invested. They were the biggest garbage that Springfield Armory has turned out. I don't buy Springfields anymore because of that poor quality hunk of Brazilian junk.

TechBrute
March 3, 2004, 12:25 AM
POJ, POS, POC and just plain no good. But how do you really feel?

corruptone
March 3, 2004, 01:39 AM
I must say that I'm kinda suprised by these responses about these particular gun. The argument that 1911's with barrels under 4" are less than reliable and not accurate, but my speciman skews that argument. I bought a SA Ultra Compact Lightweight Loaded about a year ago and after I shot it a few times I decided it was indeed a keeper and I even customized it a little bit. The recoil in mine feels no worse than my 5" 1911's and is just as accurate as some of them as well. I've put a Wilson Combat guide rod in it, did a trigger job, and then had it Tuff Gun'd by Mac's Shootin Iron. I've never used the SA supplied mags and only use either Wilson 7-rounders or CMC 7-rounders. It's one of my favorite handguns now and I would estimate that I've probably put about 300-400 rounds through it without a single failure of any kind. Now, I have heard questionable reports about the SA Micro. I would agree about it not being a good idea to have ports on a carry gun however. From your description it sounds like you are looking at CDNN offerings.

Frohickey
March 3, 2004, 02:25 AM
I would not purchase a Springfield V10 Ultra Compact for a carry piece. As others have said, the porting would be a liability for carry. Not to mention that each time you shoot, the muzzle flash would be terrible.

The recoil is actually manageable. You have to practice with any gun to become proficient, and with practice, you can manage recoil. Its when you do not practice that recoil and flinching become a problem.

About the only time I would get a ported piece would be for a 460Rowland, but that would not be Ultra Compact. It would be a long slide version :D

wardog
March 3, 2004, 02:40 AM
I had one. HAD. Never could make the thing work right. It had failures to go into battery. Pushing forward on the slide would do nothing, no matter how much pressure you put on it. When you pulled the slide back a little bit and let it go, it would go all the way forward, no problem.

It was neat looking, and a great size, just horribly unreliable. I sold it to someone who said he could fix it. After two trips to the smith and 6 months or so inbetween, I had no more patience for it.

Two gun magazines that tested it at the time also had the same problem I experienced. Gun Tests and Guns & Ammo I think.

About a year later a buddy of mine showed me his new toy. It was a V-10 Ultra Compact just like the one I had. I told him about my troubles. He said his worked great.

Denmark116
March 3, 2004, 08:32 PM
Alright I get it... I have decided against it...

I cannot really find anyone to say anything good about it.....

The search continues....

ditrina
March 10, 2009, 10:31 PM
oop's

TechBrute
March 10, 2009, 10:40 PM
Upon closer examination, you'll find:

A) No one said the gun was inaccurate based on the size.
B) Your Kimber is unrelated to the gun under discussion.
C) This thread is 5 YEARS OLD!

Carry on... nothing to see here... :)

LadyFaire
May 18, 2009, 08:24 AM
I have no idea what ANY of you are talking about when you say
1. the V-10 is not accurate - I have absolutely no problems in that area. It is a wonderful piece and just as accurate as any other (non match grade) .45 I have owned.
2. that the porting would be a 'liability' in a carry gun. Why? The porting DOES help with the recoil, and doesn't catch on anything when I need to draw - so how is it a 'liability'?
3. that the flash from the porting would be blinding or distracting in case of need to shoot. Nonsense. The first time you shoot the pistol, yes, the flash is startling. Only the first time. I have never noticed it since the first time, and I shoot inside, outside, daylight, artificial light, and 'twilight' conditions with both strong and off hand.

I think that some of you were startled by the muzzle/porting flash and decided that because of that, the pistol was 'no good'. It strips down quickly and easily, cleans up a dream, is a great concealed weapon (yes, I'm a woman, and NO not in a "purse"), accurate and easy to shoot. As for them being "cheap, cheap, cheap" - mine was a Christmas gift, so I don't 'officially' know what it cost. But I do know that my Christmas gift (pistol, 2 mags, 2 holsters, reloading dies, 500 rds brass, 500 rds semi-wad cutter bullets for reloading, and 250 rds of full metal jacket ball ammo for target practice was well over $800 - 8 years ago. If I could get another setup for the same price right this moment, I wouldn't hesitate a second!

I am thrilled with my 'bang-bang', and carry it everywhere I go, and feel naked without it. And I can assure you gentlemen, I definitely can HIT what I aim it at - no matter the conditions or time of day.

TechBrute
May 18, 2009, 10:29 AM
Tell me that you'd want to shoot your ported gun from retention:
http://corneredcat.com/Images4/S_hip.jpg
:banghead:

Now, go shoot in low-light. The vertical fireball from that thing is something to behold. You can't possibly convince me that shooting that thing in low light isn't distracting and detrimental to your night vision.

And now for my favorite part...

And I can assure you gentlemen, I definitely can HIT what I aim it at - no matter the conditions or time of day.

[Seth and Amy]REALLY??[/Seth and Amy]

And WFT is up with the Necroposting?!?!?!

David E
May 18, 2009, 12:54 PM
Firing my V-10 at the retention position pictured is no problem.

Besides, if I had to use that position, it's because the badguy is already upon me, so HE will take the ported blast, not me.

Muzzle flash depends on the load used, as not all ammo displays the same amount of flash.

TechBrute
May 18, 2009, 01:33 PM
True, about the ammo, but with about 1" of barrel before the first row of ports, the fireballs usually come in the following sizes: "Whoa!", "Holy Carp!", and Mushroom Cloud...

endebt
May 18, 2009, 04:03 PM
I have a V-10 as my primary carry gun. I have shot ii in the dark no problem. Shot at dusk no problem. I also have the full size and love it. to me it the compack shoots like a 38 sp. If you are not going to buy it let me know where it is because i have a few friends that want one. thanks.

76shuvlinoff
May 18, 2009, 10:26 PM
My first 1911 was a SA Ultracompact V10 with Hogue grips. I bought it used and neglected, she was stove piping and failing to go into battery. I put in a new recoil spring and dropped in a new Wilson extractor and honestly after that it ran like a new gun but by then I discovered the porting was just not for me.

Without hearing protection shooting it was agony, not just loud but more like red hot ice picks in the ear. I would never recommend a ported anything for a up close and personal carry weapon.

Springfield said they'd fit a non ported barrel for $150.00 but the chance to sell it came up right then and it was gone. No regrets.

Ctone03
June 7, 2009, 12:36 PM
Wow, this post is pretty old.

I still have to throw in my .02. I bought a the SA UC V10 about five years ago, and it was reliable for about the first two. Then the problems started.

I have about 5k rounds through it. It will not feed a 50 round box of 230 gr ball ammunition with at least one jam, and it will not feed three consecutive rounds of any HP ammo despite my best efforts. The main problem is that the rounds nosedive in the magazine, which I think is from the slide going too fast for the magazine spring to present the next round.
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/Jams/100_2837.jpg

I have replaced the recoil spring and guide rod with a new factory SA one. I previously tried recoil springs from Wolff. Mags are Chip McCormick or Wilson; the SA mags that came with the gun never fed from day one. I have tried Wolff extra power mag springs which didn't help. I have polished the feed ramp. I've been looking for an extra power mainspring to hopefully slow down the slide velocity, but there aren't any for the worthless ILS system. Not a half an hour ago I ordered a new mainspring housing for a Colt Officer model, which will do away with the ILS. I also ordered a 20# and 23# mainspring, of which I think the 23# is about factory weight, but I think the hammer strut may be shorter to accomodate the ILS. Time will tell.

As for recoil, the porting does take the snap out of the gun, but I will never buy nor recommend porting in any carry piece. It's not worth it. If you have to fire the gun in self defense inside your home or car, you will have very permanent hearing damage. You were wondering about flash?
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/Jams/CTonesnuclear1911.jpg

Do you really want that fireball coming out of your gun in a dark parking lot? The ammo is WWB 230 gr ball.

To recap: my UC V10 is a jam-o-matic that will not feed even half of a magazine with any HP ammo; it is about as blasty as a handgun can get; the fireball is the size of a small nuclear weapon blast.

The next option is to sell it and buy a full sized 1911, or to send it to SA and have them put a non-ported Champion slide and barrel on the thing.

I hope this helps somebody.

navyguns
July 19, 2009, 03:27 AM
I've got to argue the fact about the noise being a factor.... (1) You were obviously shooting at a firing range of some sort so you shoould always wear hearing protection (2) in a high stress situation ie: having to draw your weapon for fear of you life, you will incur audio block and tunnel vision. I know, I've been there I had to make a split second decision and shoot someone with my .357 in self defense. The only noise I heard was a slight "pop" kind of like a primer going off. I don't even rember having to pull the trigger, it was all sub consious. So please dont base a carry weapon based on how noisy it is. I always go by 1st shot stopping power, size\weight, and lastly, but more importantly, reliability.

Just my .02 :)

TechBrute
July 20, 2009, 11:22 AM
What is it about this thread that makes noobs keep bringing it back? That's the third time this year.

dancer
September 7, 2009, 01:40 AM
What is it about this thread that makes noobs keep bringing it back? That's the third time this year.
It's not really important, but I think I can answer that. A very photogenic display of a stainless steel weapon clearly identified as "V10 ULTRA COMPACT .45 ACP" is in an old post on a "Guns" thread on a Motorcycle-oriented forum. Noobs read old posts on some threads, see something they've never seen before, Google "V10 Ultra Compact" and this thread is the first return. And that's why!

sdrillsgt
December 12, 2009, 08:48 PM
I just purchased a Springfield Armory V10 and having read the threads here I find it interesting, some of the comments I wonder about.

But it's a shame that some people are rude and can not be like the bouncer in the movie Road House " Be nice"

My V10 was used LOL and had a broken barrel lug other then that it's a fine carry weapon. As far as noise if you where hearing protection when shooting indoors or outdoors when practicing then it's not a problem.
The muzzle flash that was talked about was not noticed by me at all.

I'll be firing the weapon at the next IDPA match in my area. And to the web commandos Be Nice:)

And for those who would like to know the S stands for senior I was one of the Senior Drill Sgt. in the USAR

01indianbob
January 20, 2010, 09:40 AM
Ok, I've heard a lot of 'damning' of the V10, so I am compelled to convey my thoughts as well. I am a retired lawman of 25 years service. For the last 10 years of my carreer, I carried a V10 for my backup. I qualified with it every six months with no problem at all. It was very accurate right out of the box, and the flash from the compensated barrel...WHAT FLASH! There is no flash unless you are the only person I've ever heard of that your eyes do not blink when you pull the trigger on a cannon. Everybody else got a kick out of my V10...it made it easier for them to shoot during 'low light' excercises. When I shot, my flash lit up all the targets...then everyone else shot. And, the only miss feed I ever got was 'staged' during training excercises. I've still got mine and have no intent of selling it. Oh...my duty weapon was a Para-Ordinance P14 with some extra 'bells and whistles'. My other backup was a Remington 1187P loaded with buckshot, rifled slugs and Sabot rounds. I was a cop just outside of Houston, Tx.

thomasnguyen714
March 3, 2010, 03:48 AM
I had a chance to pick up a Stainless loaded V10 Ultra Compact with 3 magazines for $350 and couldn't pass it up EVEN if it had extraction problems. The logic was as long as everything is within specs, I could narrow down the problem and fix it. I'm going to talk a little about what steps I went through.
After picking up the pistol, I proceeded to the range with a variety of ammunition to include LSWC, LRN, Ball, Hydra-Shoks, Gold Dots, and Remington HPs. It was disappointing right from the first magazine. From the first magazine, I experienced failure to extract FTE and FTF at the time when the new round was not able to enter the chamber. Most of the times however, it was just a straight FTE. I pulled the extractor and examined it very carefully but every looked fine. I retensioned the extractor and proceeded to shoot again but again the gun experienced FTEs. Wondering if maybe I missed something on the extractor, I went home to order a new extractor from Brownells. While looking through the website, I saw a few things that I thought I'd order to customize my new gun so along with the new extractor, I ordered an S&A Magwell, some Wolff springs, and a Wilson Combat two piece guide rod to get rid of the annoying stock guide rod and spring set up.
When the package finally arrived, I was pretty excited to start working on my UC V10pistol. I tensioned and fitted the new extractor and installed all of the other parts. I quickly grabbed the same assortment of ammo and headed to the range. Disappointingly again, the pistol jammed with FTEs. I headed home and started searching through the internet for all the possible reason a 1911 would have extraction issues and came upon an article about barrel links. I read how in the old days, the guys would install longer barrel links to cam the barrel up harder resulting in a tighter lock up. Wilson also came out with a guide rod set up call the Group Gripper or something like that. In that same article are other reasons why you would and would not use longer links and the effects of using longer links. Well to make it shorter, if you have a short link, the barrel would unlock sooner and vice versa, if you have a longer link, it would delay the unlock a little longer. I then realize that maybe my link was too short and the extractor was trying to extract the case while the case is expanding at the same time inside the chamber. Reading the article a little further confirmed that having a link that is too short will in fact cause extraction problems because the barrel would unlock too soon and the extractor will indeed try to extract while the case is expanding. I remembered I had a set of links that I had ordered before for another 1911. The set I had consisted of 5 links of varying sizes in increments of .003 inch. I measured the links and selected one that is the next size up from what was in the pistol.
The next day, I was at the range again with 250 rounds of the same variety of ammo. Oh, I forgot to mention that I polished the ramp since I had the pistol apart also. Anyway, I'm happy to report that the little booger digested every round with no malfunctions whatsoever! I was a little sad when I ran out of ammo as I wanted to shoot some more. It grouped beautifully from the 10 and 15 yard line. I did not test it for accuraccy at the 25 yard line because my primary concern was the reliability. The tightest group was with the 230 grain Federal Hydra-Shoks. So after all this, I guess all I'm trying to say is that if you experience FTEs, make sure you check the extractor AND the barrel link for timing. I hope this helps. I'm still really glad I didn't pass this pistol up as it turns out, a $4 link solved all of my problems.

oasis618
March 3, 2010, 04:40 AM
I think a fireball coming out of my gun in a dark parking lot would be very impressive indeed.

thomasnguyen714
March 3, 2010, 06:31 PM
As much as I love this gun now, it is but one gun in my arsenal so I don't plan to carry my V-10 around. I carry a stock Glock 27 with trijicons and a compact magazine and two spare Glock 22 mags. My G27 has not disappointed me yet and stays by my side most of the day and night

legsdiamond213
April 21, 2010, 05:00 PM
I'll Tell Ya I Got My V-10 About 8 Years Ago Or So....I Had A Novak Combat Adjustable Rear Sight And A Ambidextrous Safety Along With Extended Slide Release
Installed She's A Little Heavy At Times But I Love It Use The McCormick's 8 rd Mags Which Fit Flush...Out Of All My Pistol's This Is My All Time Concealed Carry....
Yes The Porting Keeps You Right On Target Especially Shooting 230gr
But She Love 165 To 185gr

Now As Far As The Larger Capacity I Would Like To See It

ConcealedPeace
April 29, 2010, 09:01 PM
I still own a v10, and I must say it is very picky with ammo and mine did frequently hang up until I started handloading. At first it was double feeding and stovepiping a lot. The friendly neighborhood gunsmith said the extractor wasnt engaging properly so after a little TLC with a dremel tool that problem is fixed, and I occasionally had to bump the slide (hotter loads and a stiffer spring may help with this). It started performing MUCH better when I started running only handloads with a good factory crimp and after that I really had no serious problems as long as I kept it clean. As far as accuracy, I can routinely and easily shoot milk jugs at 25 yrds free standing. Rapid fire is where it has really shined thanks to the compensator IMHO. It really helps to keep the muzzle down and flash has never been an issue for me. With a little practice a competent shooter can empty a clip in 2 seconds and put everything inside the five ring at 8 yrds. Bottom line, its like an old jaguar. It has a lot of quirks but once you iron them out you have a solid gun. If you want straight out of the box dependability get a Glock/XD(m)/HK

Denezin
September 24, 2011, 11:10 AM
Owned one until it was stolen. Shot it night or day and could nail a chest sized target within 100 yards with all 7 rounds. Reliability- Had one problem with the extractor not having enough strength to strip the round but with my warranty it was replaced and havent had a problem since.

harmon rabb
September 24, 2011, 12:10 PM
Anyone have any experience with the Springfield V-10 Ultra Compact?

I have a line on a very good deal on a new in box V-10, and I have been looking at getting a small 1911 style pistol... I think that the porting will help with the recoil that a hand cannon like a 3.5" .45 will have...

Additionally, they also gave a springfield ultra compact high capacity... However I cannot find any info on this and it is not in Springfield's current line-up... Anyone have any info on this?

I can get the V-10 50.00 more then I can get the mil-spec ultra compact and the high capacity is 20.00 less then the mil spec at the local gun shop (519.00)....

Please let me know....

Thanks

Denmark
a compact 45 is not a hand cannon. 45 is really a pretty tame cartridge in terms of recoil. a 357 j-frame... now that's a hand cannon. recoil from a compact 1911 in 45 is really not a concern, so you don't need porting, which is going to blind you should you ever fire it in the dark.

daehawc
October 1, 2011, 05:21 PM
Just picked up a used V10 from my dealer a couple months ago. It had just returned from a long list of work done to it at springfield to include the fitting of an extra non-ported barrel, spring replacement, etc. Got it on trade from a G36 and G19 that I no longer wanted.

I immediately took it home, cleaned it up, and took her to the range. Initial shoot was about 250 rounds (200 FMJ, 50 Critical defense). Not a single malfunction. My only complaint was the gun pinched me a little in the web of my hand and is a bit snappier than a full size 1911. Good gun and will be my carry gun for a while.

Noggles
December 29, 2011, 06:11 PM
most ftf issues with the V10 are the 2piece recoil spring. The springs are screaming every time you fire. They need replaced every 1k-2k depending on who you talk to. also the smaller of the 2 guide rods is threaded. either pull it apart and degrease it and tighten it up very snug or loctite it. dont go past red loctite or you wont be able to replace the recoil springs.

Have had my V10 for around 7 years now only time I had an issue was when I first bought it used and didnt know you had to replace the recoil springs as standard maint. its a machine just like your car it needs plugs oil and love your shocks dont last forever.. your milage my vary but if it is maintained you will be happy with it.

five.five-six
February 21, 2013, 02:40 AM
Upon closer examination, you'll find:

A) No one said the gun was inaccurate based on the size.
B) Your Kimber is unrelated to the gun under discussion.
C) This thread is 5 YEARS OLD!

Carry on... nothing to see here... :)

I find myself in a dificult situation. I currently have the need for a carry gun and money is real tight. I have few choices in guns I own and fewer choices in guns I can afford, which is none.

choices are:

1) springer V-10
2) Davis .380
3) the wifes's ported 6" .357 (which won't make her happy at all)

What do you think?

ChopperKen
February 21, 2013, 08:20 AM
I have a v-10 bi-tone. I don't understand the hating on it
Mine does what it should. Shoots well for a carry gun.
My 13 year old daughter shoots milk jugs with it at 25 yards.
And I have carried it for 10 years with no problems other
than some bad reloads. Yes the porting does light up the night.
But I kinda like it.

ExTank
February 21, 2013, 01:34 PM
My V-10 is also a reliable, accurate shooter. No problems with it whatsoever.

osteodoc08
February 22, 2013, 07:52 AM
Wow. Talk about a zombie thread. I didn't have the 1911 V-10 but had an XD V-10. HAD. Muzzle blast of the 40 gave me a headache. Do what you will, but ill personally stay away from ported guns. If you need ports for better controllability, perhaps that isn't the gun for you to begin with?

45Fan
February 22, 2013, 09:53 AM
The 40 is a bit snappier round, so the porting would be a bit louder with it. I have had a v-10 for 4 years or so now, and do carry it on occasion. It isnt noticeably louder than a standard Colt officers model, and thought the porting does help with follow up shots, its isnt bad without porting (even in a LW model). The Reason I picked mine up was the price, just too good to pass up. It has been reliable with factory hollowpoints, and even my reloads, once I figured out where the COAL needed to be for this gun. It isnt as accurate as my Government model, but it still prints neat 4" groups at 15 yards, so I am comfortable that in a self defense situation it will be plenty accurate for my needs.

five.five-six
February 26, 2013, 01:59 AM
Wow. Talk about a zombie thread. I didn't have the 1911 V-10 but had an XD V-10. HAD. Muzzle blast of the 40 gave me a headache. Do what you will, but ill personally stay away from ported guns. If you need ports for better controllability, perhaps that isn't the gun for you to begin with?
I don't need porting, I just got a great price on the gun. I have another 1911, but with the trigger work on it, my local LE would never sign off on that as a carry gun for my permit.

dep214
April 27, 2013, 08:20 AM
not sure what people are looking for. common sense tells one that any ported gun will be louder.being ported does not make it a bad gun.the type of gun dictates the type of shooting you will be allowed to do. if one shoots a gun for something other than it is made for you will have problems.i read every post and looked at ever problem stated. I have not had any of those problems.i have put hundreds of rounds thru my v10 and never had any of the problems stated.i am a retired deputy sheriff with 25 years of service.i will not and never did have a gun that would function poorly because my life depended on it. a micro gun is not made to shoot like a full size .that is where a person will get into problems.it really sounds like people do not know what they are shooting.shooting the correct ammo also makes a giant difference. I shoot 230 gr ammo with a a Winchester t-series bullet.people scare me that have guns and do not understand what they are doing

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