Not a single new .22LR SP101 at the Gun Show


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JohnKSa
November 25, 2012, 12:16 AM
I'm talking about the 2000+ table show at Dallas Market Hall today and tomorrow. So a big show--the biggest in TX, to my knowledge, and probably the 2nd biggest in the midsection of the country. Plenty of vendors, lots of selection and a ton of guns.

I walked the entire show and didn't see any of the new 8 shot .22LR SP101 revolvers. The one I saw at SHOT in January remains the only one I've seen in person.

So I came home with my money...less the $10 admission fee. :(

I'm surprised. I didn't expect to see a lot of them, but I would have bet on there being at least a couple there.

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Shuler13
November 25, 2012, 12:47 AM
There's one at a store in Austin .... For $695!!! It's on consignment. I hate gougers.

JohnKSa
November 25, 2012, 01:02 AM
Gouging is right. For $695, it can stay on consignment--I'm not big on paying more than MSRP.

Looks like I'm just going to have to be patient. Even the online sellers seem to be out at the moment.

TennJed
November 25, 2012, 01:05 AM
I was interested in getting one, never did see one in person. Ended up getting a 10 shot S&W 617

22-rimfire
November 25, 2012, 09:19 AM
Interesting about the Dallas Show... I haven't seen one since they were introduced. This is not typical of Ruger. Sounds more like Colt in bygone days. I have seen quite a few of the LCR-22's and the 38 spl and 357 mag LCRs.

Taurus 617 CCW
November 25, 2012, 09:45 AM
I have yet to see one in person. Online they seem to be scarce. I am wondering if they didn't ramp up production on them and went with the LCR22 instead. I have access to a couple of online wholesale websites. All of them say zero in stock and that the item is allocated, meaning if they get any in, they go to preferred dealers first.

Captcurt
November 25, 2012, 09:55 AM
I have 5 distributors that I use and can't get ANYTHING. I have yet to see a new SP and I have had the Keltec PMR-30 on my wish list for over a year. I have seen one Keltec at a GS and it was marked up $200 . If you are a small gunshop you don't get squat.

tubeshooter
November 25, 2012, 02:07 PM
I lucked into one exactly one week ago today, at the gunshow. Reasonably priced, too (at $499.95).

This was in North Carolina, by the way.


I had never seen one in person either, and then saw it twice in the past 2 months. They appear to be coming around. I'm very pleased; it has been worth the wait. Be patient if you can; I almost went ahead and bought a S&W model 63 myself out of sheer frustration a few months ago.

ClemY
November 25, 2012, 05:21 PM
I picked one up at my local toy store this week. Took it to the range right from the store. I put about 150 rds through it. It shot quite well. Trigger was heavy in double action and creepy in single action. When I got home I cleaned it and took it apart to smooth the internals and play with the springs. I put in a 12 lb hammer spring and left the original rebound spring. The trigger is quite nice. I also put Trausch grips on it. Now I need to get back to the range and see how the improvements feel.

jame
November 25, 2012, 08:14 PM
I saw 3or 4 at the last show in Des Moines. All were under $500.

PabloJ
November 25, 2012, 08:21 PM
There's one at a store in Austin .... For $695!!! It's on consignment. I hate gougers.
For that money might as well get stainless S&W with high capacity cylinder. Seven hundred is loco for this Ruger revolver.

Elmer
November 26, 2012, 03:26 AM
I have yet to see one in person. Online they seem to be scarce. I am wondering if they didn't ramp up production on them and went with the LCR22 instead. I have access to a couple of online wholesale websites. All of them say zero in stock and that the item is allocated, meaning if they get any in, they go to preferred dealers first.

I think the market for $600 .22 target revolvers is pretty soft. Ruger is likely only doing short runs of them at a time.

Vern Humphrey
November 26, 2012, 07:16 PM
Take heart. What all this means is that .22 caliber SP 101s are selling faster than the factory can make them -- which means they won't stop making them, and we can buy ours when the prices are more reasonable.

C0untZer0
November 26, 2012, 08:01 PM
I looked at the Ruger side by side with the Pathfinder and the S&W Model 63.

The Ruger had the worst lockup of all three.

I thought that even in single action the Charter Arms had the worst trigger of the three. I thought the DA trigger on the Pathfinder was unusable. But it definately had the tightest lockup.

The Smith had the best trigger.

I purchased the Model 63, and it will be a gift for my daughter. I've taken it to the range and really like the little gun.

huntsman
November 26, 2012, 08:19 PM
I picked one up at my local toy store this week. Took it to the range right from the store. I put about 150 rds through it. It shot quite well. Trigger was heavy in double action and creepy in single action. When I got home I cleaned it and took it apart to smooth the internals and play with the springs. I put in a 12 lb hammer spring and left the original rebound spring. The trigger is quite nice. I also put Trausch grips on it. Now I need to get back to the range and see how the improvements feel.
I thought those had MIM internals what can you do to improve them?

stanmo
November 26, 2012, 10:34 PM
I had my choice also, and bought the M-63. The only S&W I have with the lock :banghead:. It is such a nice shooting piece I got over it.

ApacheCoTodd
November 26, 2012, 11:03 PM
There's one at a store in Austin .... For $695!!! It's on consignment. I hate gougers.
I don't get the price haters... Looks like $689.00 is Ruger's suggested retail. http://ruger.com/products/sp101/models.html

Apachedriver
November 27, 2012, 01:07 AM
I was in San Antonio today on business and got lucky. I made a spur of the moment pitstop in Cabela's and came across an SP101 .22lr for $499.

It isn't there anymore though.:)

The grips are too small for my hands but fit my wife's hands very nicely. She was thrilled as she prefers wheel guns.

It's finish is nice and brilliant along with the solid Ruger look in it's build. The trigger is pretty strong in DA, but is easy and feels crisp in SA. Lockup is solid on it as well. We'll have to hit the range soon so she can see how it shoots.

There's one at a store in Austin .... For $695!!! It's on consignment. I hate gougers.

Have you checked McBride's? They've listed this model at $539 on their website.

ultramag44
November 27, 2012, 01:43 PM
The gun was introduced, 09/15/11 (a Thursday). That day I went into my LGS @ lunchtime and asked him to order me one. He called Davisons (his supplier) and had his salesman put one in the shipment going out that afternoon.

I had the gun the next day, 09/16/11 (Friday) @ lunchtime. I paid $639.00 + Tax

Fit & finish are perfect. Very accurate out to 100 yard Silhouette targets.

The trigger is very crisp, smooth, no creep. SA was bit heavy @ 4-1/4#, switching the trigger brought it down to 3#.

The hammer checkering was sharp! I worked the tops of the points and the edges slightly w/ an oil stone.

I swapped on Hogue larger rubber grips.

bergmen
November 27, 2012, 09:56 PM
I was interested in getting one, never did see one in person. Ended up getting a 10 shot S&W 617

I did exactly the same thing. I waited six months, nobody could get one, dropped into a gun shop in Santa Rosa while my son and I were down there loking for motorcycle gear. They had only had one SP101 and it lasted less than a day. They had a new 4" 617 there and I got it instead. I could not be more happier, it is one great .22 revolver - I love it.

Dan

JohnKSa
November 28, 2012, 12:46 AM
I don't get the price haters... Looks like $689.00 is Ruger's suggested retail. MSRP is inevitably higher than fair market. That's why you've seen several folks on this thread who've found or purchased this gun for under $500.

Asking MORE than MSRP is kind of ridiculous.Um...I Don't Understand

The gun was introduced, 09/15/11 (a Thursday). That day I went into my LGS @ lunchtime and asked him to order me one. He called Davisons (his supplier) and had his salesman put one in the shipment going out that afternoon.

I had the gun the next day, 09/16/11 (Friday) @ lunchtime. I paid $639.00 + TaxAllow me to do some 'splainin'. :D

First, I like to look at a gun before I buy it, if there's a reasonable way to manage it, and when you order a gun you're pretty well committed to buying it unless there's something really wrong with it. Second, I'm hoping to pay less than $639 + Tax. A LOT less. Take a look at some of the prices online and discussed in this thread.The hammer checkering was sharp! I worked the tops of the points and the edges slightly w/ an oil stone.Interesting. When I bought my first gun, a few decades back, it was a Ruger GP100. The hammer checkering was sharp enough to shred my thumb until I worked it over with an ignition file. Apparently some things never change!

ClemY
November 28, 2012, 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemY
I picked one up at my local toy store this week. Took it to the range right from the store. I put about 150 rds through it. It shot quite well. Trigger was heavy in double action and creepy in single action. When I got home I cleaned it and took it apart to smooth the internals and play with the springs. I put in a 12 lb hammer spring and left the original rebound spring. The trigger is quite nice. I also put Trausch grips on it. Now I need to get back to the range and see how the improvements feel.

I thought those had MIM internals what can you do to improve them?

They smooth up very nicely. They are hard and a stone works nicely to eliminate the bumps on the sear notch that are left by the manufacturing processes. It worked well on my 4" .357 101 as well.

PuddleMonkey
November 28, 2012, 06:36 AM
odd, I didn't have any issue finding mine. found the 357 too, but that's the hard one to come by around here. the 22's seem to sit awhile. I like the 22 but will probably move it locally and get a Ruger Single-Six Hunter.



http://i48.tinypic.com/o9ice1.jpg

22-rimfire
November 28, 2012, 08:45 AM
PuddleMonkey, where's "around here"?

PuddleMonkey
November 29, 2012, 05:54 AM
Washington State

Elmer
December 3, 2012, 04:12 PM
Take heart. What all this means is that .22 caliber SP 101s are selling faster than the factory can make them --

No Vern, ...maybe a little faster than they projected sales would be.

Ruger is capable of turning out guns in astonishing numbers, when they have the orders for them. I've watched them do it in person, even before they further streamlined their manufacturing.

Sales for quality .22 revolvers are a drop in the bucket, when compared to most other handguns, and that was true in the past as well. Back when I worked in a gun store, S&W and Colt .22 revolvers would languish on the shelves for months, at heavily discounted prices. (And prices that bring a tear to my eye when I think about them today). After selling a Model 17 or a Diamondback .22 that had stayed on the shelf for too long, we would often wait some time before ordering another. I'd say we probably sold the centerfire versions of the same models at a rate of 20 to 1, or higher. I'd be surprised if that isn't true today as well. The manufacturers responded to that with limited production of the slower models. That caused the guns to sometimes be in short supply, giving the illusion of them being in great demand.

While $600+ doesn't sound unreasonable to us who are gun folk, the average gun buyer can't begin to comprehend why a .22 should sell for anything close to a centerfire handgun price, much less for more. After all, the ammo is so much cheaper! Try asking one of your non-gun aficionado friends how much he thinks a .357 revolver sells for, and how much he thinks a .22 revolver sells for. I think you'll get my point. The average shooter is much more comfortable buying something like a Ruger .22 auto, for half the price of the SP101 in .22.

As far as why your local store doesn't have any particular new model gun, you might be surprised to find out that sometimes the reason is, they didn't order any when they were announced. Gun shops, especially smaller shops, are notoriously reticent about ordering guns they aren't sure will turn fast. I have several good friends in the distribution business, and they constantly complain about shops not ordering new models of guns. The shops will tell them, "we're going to wait to see what the demand is". Hence, distributors will order light on new models, not being sure they will turn them fast enough. BTW, that's the reason gun companies, (including Ruger in the past), often promote the hell out of guns before they actually start making them. To try and buildup a demand, so the distributors and dealers would actually order them. No company wants to sit on inventory.

Obviously, everything I've said in this long winded post, is not accounting for the current gun buying frenzy. That will play into many model's availability, along with company's decisions about which models to concentrate on building. In this environment especially, quality .22 revolvers are not going to be at the top of that list.

beatledog7
December 3, 2012, 04:27 PM
My LGS has one ticketed at $570. A few weeks ago one of his other stores in town also had one, but I don't know if it is still there.

tubeshooter
December 3, 2012, 05:29 PM
Funny thing is... you can run into a .22 LCR most anytime, anyplace. I see them much more frequently than the SP-101.


So I'm not sure what's going on. I know there were forcing cone issues reported on some of the earlier SP-101s, which have supposedly been addressed. That, along with the production stoppage earlier this year, would explain some of the scarcity. Not all of it, though.

Vern Humphrey
December 3, 2012, 05:33 PM
No Vern, ...maybe a little faster than they projected sales would be.
Why would they make less than they can sell?

Why if actual demand exceeded production would they not ramp up production -- if they had additional production capacity?

Count on it -- Ruger is making them as fast as they can, and the public is buying them as fast as they make them.

Shuler13
December 3, 2012, 06:05 PM
Unless the profit margin is smaller than other popular models...

Vern Humphrey
December 3, 2012, 06:14 PM
If they're selling them faster than they make them, clearly the demand would support a price increase.

Shuler13
December 3, 2012, 06:35 PM
Not necessarily. Looking at the .22lr revolver category, the competitors are the Taurus at a lower price point and the Smiths at the higher price point. At their current MSRP they stand alone. Lets say hypothetically their big profit margin pistols are the plastic pocket shooters (think lcp/lc9) which cost little to make and their popular 1911s which are in a higher price category and are selling very well. The revolver is neither plastic nor in a 1911 market so increasing the price to increase the profit margin to match the profit margin of the other two may not be easy and may very well push the price past the S&W revolvers and decrease sales.

Vern Humphrey
December 3, 2012, 07:03 PM
The Law of Supply-and-Demand tells us there is a proportional relationship between those two factors. If the demand is so high that dealers can't keep them on the shelves, raising the price would lower demand -- but since they are selling all they make, it would increase profits.

huntsman
December 3, 2012, 07:52 PM
So I'm not sure what's going on. I know there were forcing cone issues reported on some of the earlier SP-101s, which have supposedly been addressed. That, along with the production stoppage earlier this year, would explain some of the scarcity. Not all of it, though.

Why did they have issues? it's not like this is an all new line, does the new one differ that much from the model that was dropped?

Vern Humphrey
December 3, 2012, 07:57 PM
There wasn't a production stoppage. They got so far behind on orders that they stopped taking orders (on all Ruger guns) until production caught up.

Shuler13
December 3, 2012, 08:06 PM
Yes and if those were the only factors that'd be true. But if they were to maximize profits of all items they make, it may be the case that maximizing profits on this particular item may not be worth it. Retooling the factory, increases in buying of supplies or adding a work shift for a particular model each has different costs.

It could be a case where adding a shift or another line would increase the production too dramatically and flood the market or increase costs to the price point current seekers wouldn't be willing to pay.

If they took that same investment in increasing the production of the SR1911, they may be increasing the same number of units without risking flooding the market while making more profit per item.

Shuler13
December 3, 2012, 08:16 PM
If it helps illustrate my point ill use fake numbers. Lets focus on three popular models. LCP, SR1911, and the SP101-22.

Lets say they make the following each year with the indicated profit margin:
LCP:8000 (80)
SR1911: 3500 (150)
SP101:1000 (100)

An investment (extra shift and or production line) increases LCP production by 2000 or the other models by 1000.

The first two models could add the extra units without dramatically increasing market supply and therefore not exceeding demand. The third option runs the risk of exceeding demand and if you sold every unit would not generate similar profits (160,000, $150,000 vs $100,000). In thinking of risk and reward from
Rugers perspective, I'd consider the first two options and increase the MSRP of the SP101 in the meantime.

PapaG
December 3, 2012, 08:33 PM
Put in my name for one when they were announced at the shop where I work. Just came in. The proper price should be around 550.

tubeshooter
December 3, 2012, 08:45 PM
Thank you for the correction, Vern Humphrey. You are correct, and the two are not exactly the same thing.

Elmer
December 10, 2012, 04:54 AM
Why would they make less than they can sell?

Why if actual demand exceeded production would they not ramp up production -- if they had additional production capacity?

Count on it -- Ruger is making them as fast as they can, and the public is buying them as fast as they make them.

Nope. Like I said. I've watched them make guns, and I know people that work there.

Ruger could make more SP101 .22's this week, than they could sell in a year.

They are running them in smaller batches, trying to hit a balance between filling potential orders, and not stacking them up in inventory, while utilizing production to make other models. Count on it.

ultramag44
December 10, 2012, 01:47 PM
Ruger, like most other makers, doesn't produce every model that they catalog, all @ the same time. They make runs of a model, or a certain barrel length or caliber. Those guns are everywhere and priced accordingly. When their gone, their gone and the few NIB guns still floating about command higher $$ from retailers that happen to have one.

Vern Humphrey
December 10, 2012, 06:12 PM
If that's true, then the fact that people are looking for them and can't find them shows Ruger has miscalculated -- they could sell more if they'd make more.

tubeshooter
December 10, 2012, 07:26 PM
One of the shops in my area is showing as having 7 (that's right, seven) of these in their inventory now. Or at least as of the posting of that inventory list this past weekend. So they really do seem to be coming around.

It is possible that Ruger miscalculated the demand. That being said, a lot of people will talk big about wanting something on message boards and then when it's time to pull out the cash - they stand down. Especially when it comes to .22lr guns that could be perceived as somewhat expensive.


Time will tell. I will keep tabs on how long those 7 last in the shop - I'm genuinely curious.

eastbank
December 11, 2012, 06:57 AM
i bought this older model for 250.00 out the door, i don,t know if it was polished or came from the factory that way. it has been a good revolver,no problems at all and shoots better than i. eastbank.

PabloJ
December 11, 2012, 07:17 AM
I'm talking about the 2000+ table show at Dallas Market Hall today and tomorrow. So a big show--the biggest in TX, to my knowledge, and probably the 2nd biggest in the midsection of the country. Plenty of vendors, lots of selection and a ton of guns.

I walked the entire show and didn't see any of the new 8 shot .22LR SP101 revolvers. The one I saw at SHOT in January remains the only one I've seen in person.

So I came home with my money...less the $10 admission fee. :(

I'm surprised. I didn't expect to see a lot of them, but I would have bet on there being at least a couple there.
I have only seen one at LGS. The price was $525. Nicely finished and good handling .22 revolver. You need to live in "Blue State" to find one and TX is one of the Reddest out there.

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