New powder for 357 Mag and Ruger-only 45 Colt


PDA






7mmb
November 25, 2012, 06:25 PM
I finally exhausted the last of an eight pound keg of N110 I purchased years ago. N110 had been my go to powder for full power 357 and hot 45 Colt loads since I started using it over ten years ago, hence the bulk purchase. Now N110 is no longer available in bulk, is hard to find and is priced about $33 a pound. I'd love to continue using N110 but I want something I can buy in bulk and won't cost me an arm and a leg. N110 is worth more, but not that much more. So I am going to be auditioning new powders for full power 357 Magnum and Ruger-only 45 Colt, mainly behind 125gr, 158gr and 250gr XTPs. I've got H110/296, AA#9, AA4100, Enforcer and Lil' Gun on my short list. I first started loading 357 Magnum with H110 but had switched to N110 by the time I bought my chronograph. Same with AA#9, tried it but never really chronoed it or did a lot of work with it. I've heard that 4100 and Enforcer are the same powder, still waiting to hear from Western Powders if this is true. If they are it will cut down on some testing. I recently tried IMR 4227 in 357 and 45 Colt but so far am unimpressed. It looks like it could be promising in 45 Colt but max loads in 357 Magnum, while quite accurate, were also quite slow. I get the same velocities with less than half as much Universal and the Universal loads are quite accurate too. I've also used 2400 and Blue Dot in the past and didn't care for either. In back to back testing I found that Blue Dot gave higher velocities than 2400 and did it with less powder. Both were too dirty for my tastes and after hearing about Alliant pulling data for Blue Dot paired with 125gr bullets I don't care to try it again. The new Speer 357 data with 2400 and standard primers looks promising so I may look into it again. Alliant's 300-MP looks like it could be a good powder too but it is so new that data is sparse in 357 and non-existent in 45 Colt so I'm going to pass on it for now. Any others I'm leaving out? What have your experiences been with these cartridges? Remember I'm looking at powders for full power loads so if I read "Unique", "Herco", "AA#7", "W231/HP38", etc. I may lose my mind. I've already settled on Universal for mid-range loads, have worked up outstanding loads with it and bought it in bulk so please don't try to sell me on a mid-range powder. Thanks.

If you enjoyed reading about "New powder for 357 Mag and Ruger-only 45 Colt" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
murf
November 25, 2012, 06:47 PM
hs-6 and magnum primers (cci350 is what i use) for the 45lc.

bludot with the 158gn xtp should work well (standard primer). can't say re the 125xtp. i used to always use the bludot but, that was then.

you can try hs-6 with the 158gn xtp, but i haven't, so.....

luck!

murf

CZ57
November 25, 2012, 07:31 PM
It will be interesting to see what you hear from Western Powder Co. I have never heard that Enforcer = 4100 except in your post. Enforcer's burn rate is pretty close to AA#9's, Enforcer may be just a tad slower. I started using Enforcer after a good number of reports that AA#9 varied from lot to lot several years ago. I have been very pleased with it in .357 and .41 Magnum. I haven't loaded Ruger Only .45 Colt loads with it though. One thing I can tell you for sure, Enforcer comes from Belgium and I have never seen any duplication of powders between Ramshot and Accurate. ;)

Para Cassatt
November 28, 2012, 12:16 AM
Alliant Power Pro 300MP may be a fit for you and give excellent velocity & accuracy.

ArchAngelCD
November 28, 2012, 12:30 AM
It looks like you tried and don't like any of the "magnum" powders available to use today, and they are plentiful. All I can say is, if you don't want to use W296/H110 you are pretty much out of luck but with 8+ available you should be able to find something you like. You might have to buy 2 powders instead of only 1 to get what you're looking for.

weemsf
November 28, 2012, 12:38 AM
Powder Valley shows N110 for $28/lb. also, would 3N37 work for you? It is a good powder for magnum loads. Not sure how it is in the 45 Colt.

ArchAngelCD
November 28, 2012, 12:44 AM
Powder Valley shows N110 for $28/lb. also, would 3N37 work for you? It is a good powder for magnum loads. Not sure how it is in the 45 Colt.
The OP is looking to buy in 8lb jugs, not single pounds.

Para Cassatt
November 28, 2012, 01:03 AM
45 Colt data for 300MP can be found in Handloader #277.

7mmb
November 28, 2012, 03:37 PM
I got the is reply from Rob Behr at Ramshot: "Enforcer and Accurate 4100 are the same powder. I would always use magnum priming in both the .357 Magnum and hotter .45 Colt, no matter the powder choice. It is more a question of case volume. Good luck with your quest for a new powder. Take care, Rob." It looks like I have a little less testing to do.

ArchAngelCD: I have tried a few of them years ago and it's not that I didn't like them it's just that N110 is the best. The only powder I've ruled out is N110 due to its lack of availability in bulk. H110/296 is on my short list to try again. I know this is the one to beat, it's the magnum powder all others are compared to. I'm ok with one powder for 357 and another for Ruger-only 45 Colt. Powders do behave differently in different cases. Like 4227, a dud in 357 but it looks promising in 45 Colt.


Para Cassatt: I'll have to dig that issue out. Thanks. Handloader is the only gun mag I read anymore, and the only one I save. I've got nearly every issue going back to 2000.

weemsf: If I could get N110 for $28/lb from my LGS I'd probably just grab a bunch but with hazmat fees I'd likely be back up to store prices. I have tried 3N37, still have a bit left in fact, but not for full throttle 357. I've loaded N350 in 357, which is very close to 3N37's burn rate, but it doesn't quite get the velocity I'm looking for. Both are awesome in 9mm though. When that's gone I will switch to Universal, or maybe Silhouette for 9mm if Sportsman's can ever keep some on their shelves long enough.

Thanks for the replies guys!

CraigC
November 28, 2012, 05:02 PM
I would always use magnum priming in both the .357 Magnum and hotter .45 Colt, no matter the powder choice.
That's not very smart.

USSR
November 28, 2012, 06:39 PM
Quote:
I would always use magnum priming in both the .357 Magnum and hotter .45 Colt, no matter the powder choice.

That's not very smart.

Yes, you should not use magnum primers with 2400. If you did when you tried 2400, try it again with standard primers; you just might be surprised. And, don't be so concerned about a powder's dirtiness. 4227 is a powder that tends to leave little kernels after being fired, but I have found it to produce much better accuracy than most of the so-called "clean" powders. And, after all, it's all about accuracy.

Don

buck460XVR
November 28, 2012, 08:55 PM
Quote:
4227 is a powder that tends to leave little kernels after being fired, but I have found it to produce much better accuracy than most of the so-called "clean" powders. And, after all, it's all about accuracy.

Don


Same here. Altho it does not produce the velocities that H110/W296, it tends for me anyway, to be very accurate and much less sensitive to the wide temperature swings we have here during Wisconsin's hunting seasons. I don't use it much in .357 revolver ammo(other than some reduced loads), but love how it works in the .44s and the .460. It really shines in the carbines in both .357 and .44.

JLDickmon
November 28, 2012, 09:37 PM
Look and see if you can find N105

that failing, 3N38 is the next fastest and N120 the next slowest, falling between H4227 and RL7

CZ57
November 28, 2012, 11:34 PM
Thanks for the update, 7mmb. Didn't know they were the same, now we do! ;)

ArchAngelCD
November 29, 2012, 12:36 AM
I got the is reply from Rob Behr at Ramshot: "Enforcer and Accurate 4100 are the same powder. I would always use magnum priming in both the .357 Magnum and hotter .45 Colt, no matter the powder choice. It is more a question of case volume. Good luck with your quest for a new powder. Take care, Rob." It looks like I have a little less testing to do.

ArchAngelCD: I have tried a few of them years ago and it's not that I didn't like them it's just that N110 is the best. The only powder I've ruled out is N110 due to its lack of availability in bulk. H110/296 is on my short list to try again. I know this is the one to beat, it's the magnum powder all others are compared to. I'm ok with one powder for 357 and another for Ruger-only 45 Colt. Powders do behave differently in different cases. Like 4227, a dud in 357 but it looks promising in 45 Colt.


Para Cassatt: I'll have to dig that issue out. Thanks. Handloader is the only gun mag I read anymore, and the only one I save. I've got nearly every issue going back to 2000.

weemsf: If I could get N110 for $28/lb from my LGS I'd probably just grab a bunch but with hazmat fees I'd likely be back up to store prices. I have tried 3N37, still have a bit left in fact, but not for full throttle 357. I've loaded N350 in 357, which is very close to 3N37's burn rate, but it doesn't quite get the velocity I'm looking for. Both are awesome in 9mm though. When that's gone I will switch to Universal, or maybe Silhouette for 9mm if Sportsman's can ever keep some on their shelves long enough.

Thanks for the replies guys!
If you're going to try some of those powders again I suggest trying W296/H110 first and using a magnum primer. I have a feeling that will meet your requirements but remember, W296 does not play well when downloaded. According to Hodgdon no less than -3% from the Max load is recommended.

As said a bunch of times above, you should not use a magnum primers with 2400. They cause erratic velocity swings and can cause pressure spikes with 2400.

Don't forget the range report when you load up and test some rounds. If it's 1 powder you're looking for it just might be W296/H110...

7mmb
November 29, 2012, 07:04 PM
"I would always use magnum priming in both the .357 Magnum and hotter .45 Colt, no matter the powder choice. It is more a question of case volume."

The question of magnum priming, especially in 357 Magnum, has always been a bit perplexing. The SPM primer was made for the 357 Magnum but data sources are inconsistent as to when to use them. All the bullet manufacturers seem to use SPM for all their 357 loads, except Speer. In the most recent data I have of theirs they only use the CCI550 with H110/296, HS6 and the discontinued HS7. For everything else they use the CCI500. In the cartridge description they specifically state that with 2400 and N110 to use standard primers. Alliant's online data uses the CCI500 for 357 except for 300-MP with which they use the Fed100, still a non-magnum primer. In Hodgdon's latest reloading guide they use the WSPM with all Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester powders. In Accurate's online data they are using the WSPM too but in some printed older data I have they use the CCI500. Ramshot's online data shows loads with the Fed200 magnum primer. And just to throw everyone for a loop Vihtavuori recommends small rifle primers! I think the only thing I really know for sure is that H110/296 should always be used with magnum primers and 2400 should never be used with magnum primers. For all the rest it's anyone's guess.

ArchAngelCD
November 30, 2012, 01:04 AM
"I would always use magnum priming in both the .357 Magnum and hotter .45 Colt, no matter the powder choice. It is more a question of case volume."

The question of magnum priming, especially in 357 Magnum, has always been a bit perplexing. The SPM primer was made for the 357 Magnum but data sources are inconsistent as to when to use them. All the bullet manufacturers seem to use SPM for all their 357 loads, except Speer. In the most recent data I have of theirs they only use the CCI550 with H110/296, HS6 and the discontinued HS7. For everything else they use the CCI500. In the cartridge description they specifically state that with 2400 and N110 to use standard primers. Alliant's online data uses the CCI500 for 357 except for 300-MP with which they use the Fed100, still a non-magnum primer. In Hodgdon's latest reloading guide they use the WSPM with all Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester powders. In Accurate's online data they are using the WSPM too but in some printed older data I have they use the CCI500. Ramshot's online data shows loads with the Fed200 magnum primer. And just to throw everyone for a loop Vihtavuori recommends small rifle primers! I think the only thing I really know for sure is that H110/296 should always be used with magnum primers and 2400 should never be used with magnum primers. For all the rest it's anyone's guess.
Like I always say, magnum primers are a function of the powder being used, not the name on the cartridge. You only meed a magnum primer for hard to ignite ball powders like HS-6. HS-7 and W296/H110. All others are just fine with standard primers.

Now for the manuals, IMO they are being lazy using a magnum primer with all powders in a cartridge named magnum and a standard primer with all powders in "regular" cartridges. Why in the world would you not use a magnum primer with HS-6 when loaded in a .357 Magnum but not with HS-6 when loaded in a .38 Special +P? Well a reloader paying attention wouldn't but the manuals say it's OK, I think not. They claim it's because they want to "protect" the reloader who might use a magnum primer with data developed with a standard primer but I think that's a cop-out. (damn lairs!)

I agree with you when you say, "I think the only thing I really know for sure is that H110/296 should always be used with magnum primers and 2400 should never be used with magnum primers" but I would add HS-6 and HS-7 to the magnum primer list. With the newer powders like 300-MP I would have to do some tests of my own to know for sure and I did those tests with Lil'Gun and that powder seems to prefer magnum primers from what I see. (but I wouldn't put that in stone)

IMO use what you think works less and use common sense. Do not switching to a magnum primer instead of a standard primer without dropping back the charge weights and working back up like you should do when changing any component in a load recipe.

If you enjoyed reading about "New powder for 357 Mag and Ruger-only 45 Colt" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!