Info needed for Encore Rifle .460 S&W


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goathollow
November 26, 2012, 11:23 AM
First, let me say that I am for all practical purposes new to reloading. I did do some shot shell reloading with my dad about 20-30 years ago but that gives me just about enough knowlege to be dangerous.

My first foray into the reloading world is going to be with my .460 S&W. (Later I will get in to 9mm, .45acp and .45 Colt). I chose the .460 simply because I shoot it out of my TC Encore rifle with the 20" Katahdin barrel. It seems easier and safer to experiment with as a newbie.

I am looking for a good hunting load using a 240-300 (+/-) grain bullet. Currently use the Hornaday Leverevolution factory ammo with the 200 gr FTX bullet. I like the ballistics and accuracy but the the terminal performance of the bullet leaves a bit to be desired (IMO). I have failed to get pass throughs on several hogs and deer. Admittedly, the animals I have shot with that bullet have gone down very quickly but I have this thing about pass throughs. The recoil of the Hornaday factory loads is pretty intense as well.

So, I am looking for suggested hunting round recipes for a starting point. Most of my shots are under 100 yds so I am not looking for a long range round. Likewise, I hog and deer hunt with this gun so please consider that.

If I have failed to provide any information needed to make a suggestion please let me know.

If you can provide resulting ballistic data for suggested rounds please include that too.

Thanks in advance for your help!!

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goathollow
November 27, 2012, 12:09 PM
TTT

R.W.Dale
November 27, 2012, 12:51 PM
I had one of these but I never did shoot anything living with it. As I recall factory 200g loads were pushing 2800fps!! No wonder your bullets are failing.

Have you considered going to heavier hard cast bullets?

Hornady also makes a xtp mag (250g?) That's supposed to be a pretty tough bullet.




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goathollow
November 27, 2012, 03:32 PM
RW Dale: I agree with your assessment of the bullet performance but if the published data on the Hornaday .460 with the FTX bullet is correct they are leaving the muzzle at 2200 fps not 2800. Either way, it appears to me that the bullet is blowing up on impact.

To answer your question, I am indeed considering a heavier bullet. Be it a cast bullet or a jacketed bullet like the Hornaday XTP. Hornaday does not load the 240 grain (not 250) .452 XTP for the .460. They do load it for the .454 Casull. I am looking for information on a load for a heavier bullet, preferrably something that can handle the velocity of the .460, between 240 and 300 grains.

With that said, Hornaday does make a 225 grain FTX bullet; I don't know if it would hold up better than the 200 grain or not. Maybe it would with a slower velocity.

R.W.Dale
November 27, 2012, 03:40 PM
RW Dale: I agree with your assessment of the bullet performance but if the published data on the Hornaday .460 with the FTX bullet is correct they are leaving the muzzle at 2200 fps not 2800. Either way, it appears to me that the bullet is blowing up on impact.

To answer your question, I am indeed considering a heavier bullet. Be it a cast bullet or a jacketed bullet like the Hornaday XTP. Hornaday does not load the 240 grain (not 250) .452 XTP for the .460. They do load it for the .454 Casull. I am looking for information on a load for a heavier bullet, preferrably something that can handle the velocity of the .460, between 240 and 300 grains.

With that said, Hornaday does make a 225 grain FTX bullet; I don't know if it would hold up better than the 200 grain or not. Maybe it would with a slower velocity.

Have you actually Chronographed the ammunition in question from a carbine length barrel?

2200 is the factory number from an 8" test barrel. Your 20" non vented encore is beating this number by a very substantial margin.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=289187


http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?topic=204634.0

Another poster getting 2800 from a rifle length bbl



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goathollow
November 27, 2012, 03:49 PM
...

goathollow
November 27, 2012, 03:59 PM
Ahhhh, hadn't thought about the barrel length. Goes to show that if you pay attention you can learn something new everyday.

Looks like I need to invest in chrony!!

I'm still looking for some load suggestions. I did see the 30gr H110/300gr XTP. I will give that a try.

I really like your thoughts on the versitility of the .460. That is why I chose that barrel for the Encore. I haven't shot any .454 or .45LC from it yet but now you have my curiousity level up.

buck460XVR
November 27, 2012, 06:18 PM
My oldest son bought a Encore rifle with the 20" Katahdin barrel because I already reloaded for my XVR. What I found was revolver loads that shot nicely from my 10'' ported PC revolver were brutal on the shoulder when shot from the Encore. The increased barrel length and no cylinder gap I assume. Starting loads worked okay, but after two years of trying to find a accurate load for it, he sold it. But then he's a tad short of patience. Hornady makes their 240 and 300 gr XTPMags that hold together well. I too experienced the 200 grainer factory FTX bullets liking to blown up on the outside of animals, especially when shot a close range. I use the XTP mags now along with Speer's 300 gr Deep Curls for hunting and like the way they perform. I like IMR4227 loaded to just under compressed with any of the three aforementioned bullets.

goathollow
November 27, 2012, 07:11 PM
Buck460XVR:

Would you mind sharing the powder charge for the above mentioned loads. As a reloading rookie Im not certain I could get an accurate "just below compression" load.

Thanks!

buck460XVR
November 27, 2012, 07:51 PM
I'm still looking for some load suggestions. I did see the 30gr H110/300gr XTP. I will give that a try.



Please don't. That is about 4 gr under minimum in every manual I have. H110/W296 doesn't play nice when downloaded that far. I like about 37.2 of H110/W296 with a 300 gr pill. Make sure you are using the XTP-MAGs when running legitmate .460 velocities. The regular 300 gr .45 caliber XTPs designed for .45LC velocities will work for plimking but will give poor terminal performance on big game.





Buck460XVR:

Would you mind sharing the powder charge for the above mentioned loads. As a reloading rookie Im not certain I could get an accurate "just below compression" load.

Thanks!

As always start at min found in your manuals and work your way up. From my son's experience, I'd stay away from max loads with the Encore. My XVR likes 38.5 of IMR4227 with the 300 grainers. Anything much more than this is compressed.

kludge
November 28, 2012, 01:14 AM
The 250gr XTP (made for the .450 Bushmaster) will work in a single shot rifle just fine. Otherwise use less expensive 240gr or 300gr XTP-MAG bullets, and at 100 yards, that's what I would do.

At distance of 100 yards, full-snort .460 loads will be overkill in the extreme. I might try a reduced load of Accurate 5744 with the 240gr or 300gr XTP-Mag. Then work up to a max, or until you get the best groups, or your shoulder gives up.

codefour
November 28, 2012, 10:55 AM
I load for an XVR with an 8 3/8 barrel. My pet load is a 300 grain XTP mag over 40.0 grains of H110 ignited by a Large Rifle Magnum primer. It is a very accurate load too. The Hodgdon site listed starting as 38.0 and 42.5 as max with H110/296.

I have yet to try it on any game yet. Deer season in California was a bust this year.

Clark
November 28, 2012, 11:20 AM
I saw a pic of a guy who shot a deer with a 460
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7115505/Re_Who_s_been_hunting_so_far_t#Post7115505

That hurt my shoulder just thinking about it.

A 270 130 gr 2900 fps will make the deer go bang flop at 500 yards, and no pain to the shoulder.

goathollow
November 28, 2012, 03:58 PM
Clark:

I agree about the 270 but we are not allowed to deer hunt with rifle calibers here in Indiana. Straight from the regs: Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger; have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and have a maximum case length of 1.8 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearms and special antlerless seasons. Some cartridges legal for deer hunting include the .357 Magnum, .38-.40 Winchester, .41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .44-.40 Winchester, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, .500 S&W, .460 Smith & Wesson, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf.

goathollow
November 28, 2012, 04:08 PM
Codefour: Thanks for the recipe.

codefour
November 28, 2012, 04:39 PM
No problem. I started at 38.0 but the accuracy was not there. I kicked it up to 39.0. It was accurate in my XVR but I thought I could do better 40.0 seemed to do the trick.

I was Leary of going to high. The 460 is a very high pressure round. At 40.0 I did not have sticky extraction or flattened / cratered primers. I found the 460 likes a bit of pressure to work.

Clark
November 29, 2012, 01:24 AM
goathollow,

I see.
There has got to be a way around the rules.
Off the top of my head, I would buy a strong 357 mag rifle single shot, and ream it out to 357 max. Not with a SAAMI 357 max reamer, but with a cheap .380" straight fluted chucking reamer. Then I would throat it. That should be very concentric.
The bullet I would use would be a .358" 200 gr Flex tip... 1850 fps with H110 55kpsi.
I would have plenty of power at 200y and plenty of accuracy out to 300y using a range finder and and elevation knob on the scope.
I would zero at 200y and have ~ 8moa adjustment at 300y.
I have found that I can hit things up to 8moa adjustment.

goathollow
November 29, 2012, 09:25 AM
Clark:

You are far more sophisticated/experienced/knowledgeable with firearms than I am. I am not even sure I understood what you just said:eek:. Although, I THINK you just created a wildcat round to get around the Indiana regs.

With that said, wouldn't I be able to attain +/-2000-2200 fps with the .460 with a 200 gr FTX bullet. Dropping it back from the 2800 fps of the factory load to something less should make it more pleasurable to shoot and still make it an effective 100-150 yd gun. Lowering the velocity would should also make that bullet perform as designed too...correct? Keep in mind too that I hunt in hardwoods forest in southern Indiana. A 200 yd shot for me may as well be a mile...it just ain't gonna happen!

By the way, just so you know I'm not prejudiced...I own a .270. My father built it from a Mauser action about 40 years ago. It has killed several deer, an elk, an antelope and a black bear...not to mention a truck load of groundhogs (90 gr hollowpoints do a number on them). I love that rifle I just can't use it for deer hunting in Indiana.

R.W.Dale
November 29, 2012, 03:24 PM
Rather than downloading 460 below its optimal pressure envelope thus requiring changing propellant what'd not drop down a size and work up a 454 Cadillac load to fit the bill.

FWIW I sold my 460 carbine because recoil was so brutal I finally realized I wasn't having any fun shooting it.




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goathollow
November 29, 2012, 03:35 PM
Well the .454 certainly is an option. Having that, and the .45LC as options, is one of the reasons I chose to purchase the .460. What ever I shoot, i will want to do my own handloading.

This isn't a gun I would intend to shoot a lot. It is primarily for deer and hogs and I don't feel I need a lot of practice with it at that ranges at which I shoot those animals. So, the recoil is tolerable; I really don't even feel it in a hunting situation. Shooting it at the range is another thing altogether. Besides, I love the way it handles.

As noted in an earlier post, I'm fairly new at the reloading thing so changing propellants isn't a big deal for me. I like the experimentation. Besides...it gives me an excuse to build up my power inventory!!

goathollow
November 30, 2012, 09:46 AM
TTT

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