My CZ 75b and IDPA


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Thompsoncustom
November 26, 2012, 02:51 PM
I have yet to make it to a IDPA match but before I get around to it I was wondering what in my gun will keep it from being in stock service pistol division maybe it's fine?

Upgrades on the pistol now
Polish trigger job
CGW trigger Pin
Comp hammer
13lb hammer spring
recoil spring buffer
extended firing pin
reduced firing pin spring
reduced firing pin block spring
wood grips
grip tape

and I think that's it right now I would like to put a 85b combat trigger on there if there doesn't change the division as it's a part from the factory, a CGW firing pin retaining pin, and some better sights. I read the IDPA rules but they seem pretty vague so I was hoping someone could clear this up for me.

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9mmepiphany
November 26, 2012, 03:38 PM
I thought they were pretty clear, perhaps you can point out the vague portions that are causing your confusion.

The CZ75 can be shot in SSP or ESP, depending on you choice of stating condition of the action. If you compare the allowed alterations for each class, you shold be able to determine if you will qualify to shoot in SSP

Jim Watson
November 26, 2012, 04:07 PM
The CZ85 combat trigger has a trigger stop that would throw you into ESP.

The other stuff you list is apparently ok for SSP being either specifically authorized (grips and sights) or internal.



I wondered about the hammer.
If you had the distinctive Cajun hammer, it might indeed get you moved to ESP.
If it were a CZ item or an aftermarket very similar to stock, probably not.

Actually I think you will be better off practicing things like use of cover and the concealment draw (which can be done dryfire), learning the rules, and getting the new shooter orientation at www.gadpa.com than tinkering with the pistol (more.)

9mmepiphany
November 26, 2012, 04:54 PM
The hammer might also get you bumped into ESP, but I'm not sure

ny32182
November 26, 2012, 06:14 PM
If the hammer is a non-factory externally visible part, welcome to ESP.

"Looks like" a factory part is not the standard; it must be a factory available part.

If the trigger you are contemplating actually replaces the trigger/shoe itself (externally visible) with an aftermarket part, it too would by itself be a ticket to ESP.

Nothing wrong with ESP. Don't worry about the gun; go shoot, if you decide you like it, worry about getting 100% in compliance after a couple local matches. No one is likely to stress over minor details on the gun at your first match unless they are way more wound up than any club I've ever been to. That said, if you keep at it and/or enter any major "sanctioned" matches you will want to make sure you are 100% in compliance.

Thompsoncustom
November 26, 2012, 08:06 PM
here is the hammer
http://czcustom.com/CZ_SA_DA-Competition-Hammer.aspx

It's a part made from the factory but wasn't an option on my 75 I don't think.
If the hammer works than why wouldn't the trigger? It's also a part from the factory made for the CZ 85b which would be a 75 variant wouldn't it?

Both the hammer and the trigger would be factory parts now the CGW trigger pin is not and is externally visible as you can see both ends of it.

Jim Watson
November 26, 2012, 08:44 PM
Hammer is probably ok.
The 85 trigger has an overtravel stop, which is specifially allowed in ESP but not mentioned in SSP. IDPA specs are "inclusive" meaning that just because it isn't disallowed does not mean it is allowed when it is not specifically listed as allowed.

Frankly, I doubt if anybody would notice one way or the other, but that's the rule.

Thompsoncustom
November 26, 2012, 09:29 PM
Thanks Ya I was wondering what the rules were they seem to be worded harder than they should be.

I've never used a trigger with a overtravel screw anyways so if I'm missing anything I wouldn't know it.

waktasz
November 26, 2012, 10:45 PM
Basically if something isn't offered from the factory on your model gun, and you can see it, it's an illegal external modification for SSP.

1SOW
November 27, 2012, 03:23 AM
It's good-to-go in USPSA production class as it is now. With the 85 trigger with O.T. adjust, I'm not sure.
It wouldn't be OK in IPSC.
I also shoot the 75B with similar improvements.

Thompsoncustom
November 27, 2012, 06:46 AM
Since I'm in Iowa there isn't a whole lot to choose from and IDPA is my only option I could find that's within 50 miles. Thanks for the help I fell that I have a little better under standing of the rules, I also plan to go up and just watch and match and meet some of the people if I ever get some free time.

Jim Watson
November 27, 2012, 09:37 AM
When you go to "just watch," take your gun and gear.
You will be invited to shoot, and no reason not to.

If the rule book seems hazy, check out the new shooter briefing at:
http://www.gadpa.com/index.php/idpa/new-shooter-briefing/

1SOW
November 27, 2012, 11:54 PM
Jim Watson +1

If you don't have all the necessary gear, they'll either help out or make adjustments to let you shoot. You will love it.

IdahoSkies
December 1, 2012, 11:36 PM
Weigh it. My Witness 9mm makes SSP for function, but not for weight. Its 42 ozs. SSP is limited to 39 oz pistols, ESP allows up to 43 oz pistols.

But for most club level matches it wont matter, so if this is your first time, go out, shoot, have fun, worry about the details later.

Thompsoncustom
December 2, 2012, 11:43 AM
I think it's 34ish stock. Is that loaded or unloaded? I'm gonna order me some CGW sights and the firing pin retaining pin. Still haven't decided on the combat trigger as I'm not sure it's something I even need I was hoping I could use it with CZC SRTS but that's for none firing pin block guns. Just would be a nice combo I think if you could remove both the pre/post travel on a DA/SA gun but I may be dreaming.

eerw
December 9, 2012, 11:16 PM
Gun is weighed with unloaded magazine

Thompsoncustom
January 1, 2013, 05:33 PM
Alright just had a another quick question to add to this, The CZ 75 shadow with the over travel screw is legal according to CZ custom.

http://czcustom.com/cz75shadowsadablk.aspx

So now I'm confused a little again, why is this ok?

Also what about stock mags, if you cut the follower on a 16rd mag and use two small screws to tie the spring to it you can get it to hold 17rd's tho I haven't done enough testing to see it there as reliable.

Sam1911
January 1, 2013, 05:46 PM
So now I'm confused a little again, why is this ok?
Why would it NOT be?

And regarding the mags, what's the point of modding a magazine to hold 17 rounds for a sport that allows no gun to be loaded beyond 10+1?

Thompsoncustom
January 1, 2013, 05:54 PM
The 85 trigger has an overtravel stop, which is specifially allowed in ESP but not mentioned in SSP. IDPA specs are "inclusive" meaning that just because it isn't disallowed does not mean it is allowed when it is not specifically listed as allowed.

The mags is something I didn't know I'm still reading up on all the rules and haven't got out and shot at a match yet.

Well if it's allowed on the CZ 75 shadow why won't it be allowed on the CZ 75b as there are both 75 models?

Jim Watson
January 1, 2013, 08:26 PM
Without looking at everything on the market, I would guess that an aftermarket trigger stop on a CZ75B might be an external modification and the factory stop on the Shadow is internal.

Thompsoncustom
January 1, 2013, 08:43 PM
CZC site says it uses the 85c trigger which would be external

1SOW
January 2, 2013, 12:39 AM
The CZ Shadow COMES with the trigger with OT stop adj., so it's okay.
The 75B does not.

Thompsoncustom
January 2, 2013, 06:39 AM
That's what got my confused the CZ 75b doesn't come with a Comp hammer but it's ok to change that because it's from a different 75 model that has it from the factory correct? wouldn't this be the same thing?

Hk Dan
January 2, 2013, 02:48 PM
thompson custom...is that pete? there are uspsa and ispa options available in every market. where one is available, so is the other. call me if you need help, i am the contact person at wolf creek idpa.

Hk Dan
January 2, 2013, 02:49 PM
thompson custom...is that pete? there are uspsa and idpa options available in every market. where one is available, so is the other. call me if you need help, i am the contact person at wolf creek idpa.

1SOW
January 3, 2013, 04:33 AM
That's what got my confused the CZ 75b doesn't come with a Comp hammer but it's ok to change that because it's from a different 75 model that has it from the factory correct? wouldn't this be the same thing?
No. You are ALLOWED TO change sites, grips and various other items that don't change the basic design (my own words not theirs) with "like" options available for that gun. The CZ Comp hammer is ok. Angus Hobdell's CZ Custom Shop produces more than 500 and gets/lobbies for the USPSA approval
I know it's screwy, but there it is.
I wanted a trigger with (actually the same trigger modified) to have an adjustable "RESET" screw [schmeky at Cajun Gun Works makes one], but "that" is illegal for USPSA Production class. :( My gun resets shorter than stock which IS OK.. I run the standard CZ Shadow hammer in my CZ 75B and that is okay too.
IPSC allows a lot LESS exterior and interior changes than USPSA, including how light the trigger pull is---5# minimum for IPSC I believe.

Thompsoncustom
January 3, 2013, 06:32 AM
Maybe I'll order the 85c trigger and if I really like it I'll just install an over travel inside somewhere so it's legal, I have enough irons in the fire with gun right now I don't need to start another project.

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