magnification


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zamboxl
November 27, 2012, 06:09 PM
Hey guys i am getting a trs 25 for my ar, i have been looking for a 4x magnifier for it, but it seems all the magnifiers out there are 3x, what gives, is there a 4x for a red dot out there? I saw Lucid had one but not to crazy about it.

Edit: pls no eotech or aimpoint $500 magnifier don't have that much

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Sheepdog1968
November 27, 2012, 06:50 PM
For what it's worth, I have two hunting rifles. One has a 2.5x fixed; the other 4x. For all practical purposes the work just about as well for me out to ethical hunting distances.

henschman
November 27, 2012, 07:56 PM
Yeah, I don't think you will notice any difference between the two. Optical quality makes a whole lot more difference than an extra 1x.

zamboxl
November 28, 2012, 02:41 PM
ok i hear you

CraigC
November 28, 2012, 02:47 PM
Buy a 1-4x riflescope instead.

zamboxl
November 28, 2012, 10:51 PM
i want a red dot a little more flexible than a scope.

CraigC
November 29, 2012, 12:30 AM
A red dot with a separate, fixed power magnifier is more flexible than a 1-4x? How is that??? I've used both and would love to hear your reasoning behind this.

Inebriated
November 29, 2012, 12:36 AM
No, it isn't.

Look at the Leatherwood Hi-Lux or Millet 1-4x. Can't remember which, but one of them has just a red dot, and you can magnify. It's more versatile and more robust than a red dot and magnifier setup.

Look on YouTube

EDIT - speaking to OP, not Craig.

zamboxl
November 29, 2012, 01:55 AM
it is hard for me to use both eyes on a scope the tunnel view of the scope trows me off, but now that i think about it maybe it was because it was a magnified scope, i guess i'll take a look. Still leaning towards the red dot, but that might change.

edit: o almost forgot parallax free and unlimited eye relief are the two biggest reason, i can't believe i forgot that, and before you guys say o that's not important, maybe you guys are great shooters but i know i could not get off a shot nearly as fast with a scope than with a holo, red dot, or ghostring

Inebriated
November 29, 2012, 02:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvMfbYwED1k

It was a Mueller I was thinking of. 1x should be very easy and quick to pick up.

zamboxl
November 29, 2012, 02:26 AM
not parallax free and limited eye relief (3.5 vs unlimited) price wise seems line a decent deal.

henschman
November 29, 2012, 02:30 AM
Yes, red dots definitely have advantages over telescopic sights when it comes to close, fast shooting and awkward positions. A 1-4x set on 1x is NOT the same as an unmagnified red dot. Like the OP said, there will still be eye relief and parallax issues. Plus many are not really true 1x... like the Leatherwood and Millet that were mentioned.

helotaxi
November 29, 2012, 10:33 AM
As soon as you add the magnifier, you add all the other problems though as well as another level of complexity and something hanging off the side of the rifle most of the time. If you want a red dot, get a red dot. They're easily capable of getting hits out well past 300yds if you're capable of shooting that well. If you want magnification, get a scope.

CraigC
November 29, 2012, 11:26 AM
As soon as you add the magnifier, you add all the other problems though as well as another level of complexity and something hanging off the side of the rifle most of the time. If you want a red dot, get a red dot. They're easily capable of getting hits out well past 300yds if you're capable of shooting that well. If you want magnification, get a scope.
Exactly!

zamboxl
November 29, 2012, 12:34 PM
this would be for my hunting/ defense Ar that's is why i want the red dot, and magnifier set up. Yes when you ad the magnifier those other problems come in but i would not be running around with a magnifier trying to target a deer with both eyes open. I would be sitting or hiding in place taking that shot, and in that case i don't have to worry about the so called other problems.

helotaxi
November 29, 2012, 12:40 PM
But the rest of the time you're running around with the magnifier there, swung out of the way, adding weight, snagging on everything and providing no benefit. If you really want both a red dot and a magnified optic, invest in a red dot and a low powered scope and a pair of good QD mounts.

CraigC
November 29, 2012, 12:40 PM
Methinks you're trying a bit too hard NOT to learn something here.

I always shoot with both eyes open, irons, red dots or scopes.....matters not.

Low powered variables seem to work well enough for folks to mount them on African stopping rifles. There are NO issues that cannot be overcome with practice. :rolleyes:

zamboxl
November 29, 2012, 01:22 PM
helotaxi you might be on to something there, i was thinking about doing that but gave up due to funds issue but once you ad the cost of a flip mount there is no cost difference, atleast with what i was looking at.

CraigC yea i am not trying to learn anything i have shot scopes, and iron that's how i know that a holo sight gives you unmatched speed, Sure i can practice more but i work, i am about to have a kid and got a few other things going on, i am unwilling to devote more time to practicing hence why i am looking for something to make it easier. Sure i could find a way to practice more but i just don't want to simple as that. We all have priorities and shooting is just one of my hobbies as such i like doing other stuff that i don't want to give up to practice more and get better with iron and a scope as far as shooting with both eyes open and quick target acquisition go.

The AR332 and 532 where looking real appealing but the cost was prohibitive, i might have to explore that a little more with a red dot mounted on top. Any scopes like the ones mention with integrated mounts for optics you guys know about?

helotaxi
November 29, 2012, 08:40 PM
I'd do a 45 deg offset mount with a micro red dot rather than mounting it above, but I would only even do that on a rifle with a higher powered scope that I was going to use as a dedicated coyote rifle where one had the potential to sneak in on me but I primarily needed the ability to reach out and touch them. Otherwise, I'm either using a red dot alone or a low powered variable alone. Amazingly enough all of my ARs are an either/or proposition. Two have 1-4x scopes, one has a red dot. The dedicated hunting and varmint ARs have higher magnification variable scopes on them. It doesn't take much practice at all to learn to shoot a low powered scope with both eyes open and once you figure it out the "tunnel vision" basically goes away.

nastynatesfish
November 29, 2012, 08:58 PM
This is a konus M30 1-4x24. It's on my 243wssm. I love it
http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w369/tabascoman79/18D1EAC5-28AE-40E8-88E8-875385E86B1E-59668-00000FEEE77A25A0.jpg

CraigC
November 30, 2012, 01:35 AM
i am not trying to learn anything
I noticed. :rolleyes:

1858
November 30, 2012, 03:35 PM
I had a Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x on my POF and shot a 2-gun match with it and realized that it was a terrible scope to use because the targets were close, there were lots of magazine changes (10 rounds per mag) and lots of movement. I also shot a match using the TROY BUIS and preferred using the iron sights to the Mark 4. After those two matches I bought an Aimpoint M4s and it is WAY better for that type of shooting since target acquisition is considerably faster. As for "long range" accuracy, I shot a 100 yard stage with five steel poppers (4' high) where all shots had to be made offhand. It was fairly easy to drop all of the poppers in 8 ~ 10 seconds using the M4s with its 2MOA dot. I think a quality red dot scope is extremely versatile for self defense, competition and hunting. I have no plans to add a magnifier. The Mark 4 1.5-5x will go on another AR chambered in .450 Bushmaster to be used for pig hunting.

zamboxl
December 1, 2012, 03:14 PM
craig thank you so very much for your incredible helpful and completely unrelated comments i was asking about a magnifier, once it became clear you had no inclination to comment on it and that i was not interested in purchasing a scope, just don't. Yes i am not trying to learn anything else i don't have the time which is why i want a red dot, it doesn't get any easier, like i said this is a hobby nothing more and as a hobby i will do it how it pleases me simple as that.

1858

You said you use the Leopold as your dedicated hunting rifle, but have you taken the red dot hunting? if so how good is it at discerning a hog, or deer hidden in brush at a 100 yards or so?

To all those that posted about alternative scopes thanks i did check them out but they all have too short eye relief, maybe i was spoiled by my previous scout set up but hey that's life. I am going with the Vortex Sparc, the lifetime warranty is hard to beat, any one here have one of those.

1858
December 1, 2012, 04:22 PM
You said you use the Leopold as your dedicated hunting rifle, but have you taken the red dot hunting? if so how good is it at discerning a hog, or deer hidden in brush at a 100 yards or so?

No I haven't taken it hunting and obviously a 1X optic isn't going to help you see a game animal any larger or any clearer. However, the 2MOA dot in my M4s would be just fine for holding on an 8" vital area at 100 yards.

xfyrfiter
December 1, 2012, 05:41 PM
I like the Vortex Sparc,2moa red dot, good battery life and 2x mag option. For $200 it is hard to beat.

Lloyd Smale
December 2, 2012, 04:22 PM
Ive got a few aimpoints and a acog and a accupoint 1x4. the aimpoint might be a bit faster but surely not by enough to make a differnce unless your in combat. For ANY hunting situation id take an acog or a accupoint or any 1x4 scope hands down over a redot especially if you have a chance at a shot past a 100 yards.

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