Civilian version of the M14


PDA






jimmyraythomason
November 27, 2012, 05:34 PM
There is a guy on a local(Alabama) trading forum trying to sell an M14. He is referring to it as a pre-ban(?)with a G.I.receiver. It is my understanding that the M14(GI issue) was never made available to the civilian market. Is he mistaken as to what he has? Is this most likely an M1a (it has a 20 rd mag and no bayo lug). He is asking $1400-1600. I know I'm asking you to speculate a lot but something isn't adding up here.

If you enjoyed reading about "Civilian version of the M14" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
JR47
November 27, 2012, 05:55 PM
M14 rifles were considered to be Class 3 weapons. There were some altered by locking the selector, and issued to Long-Range competitors, but thjey were few, and far between. Today, such a gun in private hands would be non-registerable in the NFA Register, and the receiver would be regarded as a machine gun by BATFE.

I imagine that you're looking at an M1A, or perhaps a Chinese M14S rifle.:)

jimmyraythomason
November 27, 2012, 06:05 PM
Thanks JR47,that is what I'm thinking on the Chinese import because of the "pre-ban" stipulation. I don't know what makes him think it has a G.I. receiver.

jimmyraythomason
November 27, 2012, 06:14 PM
He has changed it to an M1a/M14. Here is the add I have a really nice M1A/M14 that I would like to sell or trade. It got a GI receiver, flash suppressor, and it's a pre-ban. My price is $1200 or will trade for a pistol plus cash.

Narwhal
November 27, 2012, 06:17 PM
There are a few NFA registered GI M14's on the market. These were sold by GI manufacturers like TRW or Winchester on the civilian market in very limited numbers. They typically sell for $15-25,000 as NFA items these days. Even if they were "converted" to semi auto they are still considered an NFA item in the eyes of the NFA due to the "once a machine gun, always a machine" philosophy.

M1A is a marketing term used by Springfield Armory Inc. to describe their semi-auto M14 type rifle.

Many other manufacturers made and sold M14 type semi auto rifles under the name "M14", and still do today. These include chinese companies Polytech & Norinco, and American companies Fulton Armory, LRB Arms, 7.62mm Firerams, Smith Enterprise Inc, and probably a few others I'm forgetting. These companies also made a few select-fire "machine gun" nfa rifles prior to 1986 as well. These typically sell in the $10-15,000 range.

Since your friend is only asking $1500 it's probably one of the semi-auto type M14 rifles from a manufacturer listed above.

MasterSergeantA
November 27, 2012, 06:19 PM
He may mean 'mil-spec' receiver, but you can always ask him who actually made it to be sure.

Dave P
November 27, 2012, 06:23 PM
Price isn't bad for an M1A.

jimmyraythomason
November 27, 2012, 06:29 PM
I just asked and he said it was a Century Arms.

USAF_Vet
November 27, 2012, 08:52 PM
Century Arms is an importer, not a manufacturer. This is probably a Polytech or a Norinco M14.

jimmyraythomason
November 27, 2012, 09:56 PM
Century Arms is an importer, not a manufacturer.True but they are also an assembler of parts kits.

Mencius
November 28, 2012, 04:16 PM
His ad said $1200. Get him down to $1k and I think it would be a decent price even if it is a Polytech or something.

1 old 0311-1
November 28, 2012, 04:51 PM
I carried a M14, REAL one in Vietnam. Great, reliable gun BUT when you turn that little switch on the right side the first 2 rounds go to point of aim and from there you are shooting at the moon.
The M1A, Springfield, TRW, Fulton, and Chinese are all great guns. The Chinese brings a bit less but are still good guns for the money.

Mencius
November 28, 2012, 05:51 PM
Funny you say that about the first two rounds. I shot a fully auto M14 at a machine gun shoot in Kentucky and found that to be true. Good time, though.

Charger442
November 28, 2012, 06:31 PM
They typically sell for $15-25,000 as NFA items these days. Even if they were "converted" to semi auto they are still considered an NFA item in the eyes of the NFA due to the "once a machine gun, always a machine" philosophy.

if they were "converted" to semi-auto, and never taken off the NFA register, then yes, they are still a Class 3 FA firearm. if it was converted to Semi and then ATF was notified through a letter as a permanent change to the guns configuration, therefore not meeting the Class 3 specifications AND it was removed from the register, then it is just a regular ol' M1A.

why anyone would actually do that, is beyond me, though.....

hso
November 28, 2012, 07:27 PM
http://m14forum.com/m14/116037-century-arms-m14-2.html

TurtlePhish
November 28, 2012, 07:45 PM
if they were "converted" to semi-auto, and never taken off the NFA register, then yes, they are still a Class 3 FA firearm. if it was converted to Semi and then ATF was notified through a letter as a permanent change to the guns configuration, therefore not meeting the Class 3 specifications AND it was removed from the register, then it is just a regular ol' M1A.


Nope. Once a machine gun, always a machine gun. Permanently changing it and sending a letter to ATF doesn't make it a legal Title 1 firearm.

The only way to make it into an ordinary M1A would be to destroy the original receiver and rebuild the rifle on a new semi receiver.

Charger442
November 28, 2012, 08:59 PM
Any support to back that up?

Edit: maybe I should clarify, it wouldn't be removed but amended in the registry. Any way it doesn't matter since this doesn't matter for this gun

TurtlePhish
November 29, 2012, 06:43 AM
Any support to back that up?

It's common knowledge, and ATF's position on the matter. They have no actual legal basis for it, but it's how they interpret cases.

Look around elsewhere on THR and the Internet- it's what ATF's always done.

4v50 Gary
November 29, 2012, 06:51 PM
Since we're talking about a civilian authorized semi-auto only copy of the M-14, this is being moved to the appropriate forum.

jimmyraythomason
November 29, 2012, 08:01 PM
Thanks gary. The only reason I posted it in the NFA forum in the first place was the referrence to it having a G.I.receiver(which I highly doubted)and wanted input from those familiar with such things.

boricua9mm
November 29, 2012, 09:53 PM
IIRC, there were some receivers that were re-welds from Hahn Machine Co.; they were "destroyed" by being cut in two and re-welding them was simple. Apparently ATF allowed them to do this because the receivers were altered by Hahn so as to be incapable of full-auto fire, or to ever be 'restored" to MG capability.

ATF later pulled the plug on this and issued very specific methods for "destroying" receivers.

All I'm saying is, it could very well be a semi-auto "GI" receiver. You just need to know what you're actually dealing with. God and the Devil are in the details.

"Once a Machinegun, always a Machinegun" is the general rule of thumb, but in the case of the M14 re-welds, it's wasn't 100% adhered to, as ATF gave Hahn written, expressed permission to re-weld and build those guns as Title I firearms.

MachIVshooter
November 30, 2012, 11:08 AM
Price isn't bad for an M1A.

Not if it were a SA. But......

I just asked and he said it was a Century Arms.

Which means it's probably a Norinco/Polytech, which I wouldn't pay more than $600 for. In fact, I passed on a Polytech not that long ago for $559.

If you enjoyed reading about "Civilian version of the M14" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!