Big loss for concealed carry in NY court today


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usmarine0352_2005
November 28, 2012, 12:36 AM
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Hopefully this gets overturned.


http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/11/27/appeals-court-upholds-n-y-concealed-carry-law/



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Appeals Court Upholds N.Y. Concealed-Carry Law

November 27, 2012, 2:50 PM

A federal appeals court has upheld a New York State law limiting concealed-carry gun ownership, rejecting arguments that the law violates the Second Amendment right to bear arms.

To get a concealed-carry permit in New York, a gun owner must show “proper cause,” defined as “a special need for self-protection distinguishable from that of the general community or of persons engaged in the same profession.”
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ilbob
November 28, 2012, 09:17 AM
this is actually a good thing. this way it can get appealed. it is just part of the process.

I expect june of 2014 will be the day we find out if we have any real 2A right in this country.

Iramo94
November 28, 2012, 02:50 PM
Remind me, Bob, what's on the schedule 6/2014?

Ehtereon11B
November 28, 2012, 04:56 PM
One of the reasons I don't miss living in NY. There are far too many loopholes, waiting periods, and fees when it comes to getting a concealed permit in NYS. I had been on a waiting list to determine my "proper need" for six months by the time I moved down to the south.

ssyoumans
November 28, 2012, 05:06 PM
The upside to NY permit was they were good for life, the downside has been that they are for specific registered firearms listed on the permit.

pseudonymity
November 28, 2012, 06:51 PM
The upside to NY permit was they were good for life, the downside has been that they are for specific registered firearms listed on the permit.

The only possible upside (and that is stretching the term) to NY licenses is that they do not have a periodic renewal fee. The license must be amended for each purchase and sale, and any purchase can be denied at any time by the licensing agent for pretty much any reason. The limits on the license regarding the uses and places you can carry are also open to change at any time by the licensing agent, including when you apply for another amendment. It is not unheard of for a person to have their unrestricted (public) carry restricted to home/range use only just because they applied for an amendment to buy or sell a firearm. A license can be revoked at any time by the licensing agent for any reason that they deem "good cause", and there are no guidelines for what is considered good cause and a long history of revocations for any number of arbitrary reasons.

The entire licensing system in NYS is at best a frustrating and expensive way of dispensing privileges which would be considered rights in most other states, and at worst is nothing more than a sham process that is in reality a blanket ban.

mbopp
November 28, 2012, 06:59 PM
Outside of NYC, it depends on what county you live in if you get an unrestricted carry permit or one restricted for "target and hunting." I'm fortunate that I live in a county that issues unrestricted permits. And yes you need to have your permit ammended when you add or dispose of a handgun.

grubbylabs
November 28, 2012, 07:00 PM
The gov knows best

xXxplosive
November 29, 2012, 09:52 AM
Excuse my ignorance.....but does this law now effect people outside of NYC with CCL's....are they grandfathered ? or does this law effect everyone residing now in NY state ?

Esoxchaser
November 29, 2012, 09:59 AM
From the article: New York Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman hailed the ruling in a statement Tuesday. “This unanimous decision is a victory for New York State law, the United States Constitution, and families across New York who are rightly concerned about the scourge of gun violence that all too often plagues our communities,” he said.

Schneiderman is an idiot. Criminals don't obey the gun laws to begin with. Disarming the law abiding citizen only makes for easier victims.

nyrifleman
November 29, 2012, 10:08 AM
Excuse my ignorance.....but does this law now effect people outside of NYC with CCL's....are they grandfathered ? or does this law effect everyone residing now in NY state ?

This has been the law in New York for close to 100 years now (Sullivan law). So this court decision was just to uphold the existing law of the land. Hopefully, the Supreme Court will overturn it.

xXxplosive
November 29, 2012, 10:46 AM
Got that............my sister-in-law has had an unrestricted CCL in Dutchess County now for over a year....how will this effect her or not....I know there was no reason to show cause when she applied.
The NY statute to show cause is much like we have here in NJ and no judge here is giving a CCL to anyone.....each time an app. is recieved it's deemed by the judge that probable cause doesn't exist.

bobbo
November 29, 2012, 12:21 PM
My NY CCW is good for life and unrestricted. My "licensing agent" is a 65-year-old woman who likes to chat about what new toys I'm putting on. The sheriff follows me to my car to see them.

In my county, "proper cause" is "I want them and I haven't blown up my house with a meth lab."

ilbob
November 29, 2012, 07:29 PM
Remind me, Bob, what's on the schedule 6/2014?
no gun case will get to the fall term this year so there will be no decision this June.

likely a gun case will be accepted next fall for a decision in June of 2014.

Gray Peterson
November 29, 2012, 09:01 PM
no gun case will get to the fall term this year so there will be no decision this June.

likely a gun case will be accepted next fall for a decision in June of 2014.

Dunno where folks are getting this impression. Try June 2013, and it's not too late to appeal in this term.

orionengnr
November 29, 2012, 09:17 PM
...and hold your breath that no current Supreme Court Justices get so much as a sniffle between now and then...

Ehtereon11B
November 29, 2012, 09:30 PM
In my county, "proper cause" is "I want them and I haven't blown up my house with a meth lab."

Lucky you. When I lived in NY I routinely transported military grade weapons between Nation Guard armories in government vehicles unarmed. Preventing the possibility of said weapons being stolen was not "just cause" in my county.

It is unlikely this will appear before SCOTUS anytime soon. Since the Heller v DC decision, they have been hesitant to seriously look at any other Second Amendment law as it applies to the states.

Zoogster
November 30, 2012, 01:36 PM
Excuse my ignorance.....but does this law now effect people outside of NYC with CCL's....are they grandfathered ? or does this law effect everyone residing now in NY state ?

It actually has an impact outside of the state too.
This is something people playing the court battle game often miss.
This was a federal court of appeals, that means the district is effected.
While the law itself only pertains to New York, it in essence has decided that the same law would be legal anywhere in that federal district.

Additionally though not as binding is other district courts will look to the decisions of another district court on the same issue in influancing the decisions they make.

If the Supreme Court were to hear it they could then apply it to the nation. Suddenly many states that may have thought it was going to far would then know for certain they could have tougher laws on the books if they chose and it would be constitutional.

Each time you put something higher in the federal courts the resulting decision has a broader reach.



This one appears to have been in the 2nd District.
That would mean it directly impacts New York, Vermont, and Connecticut.
It does not apply that law to the other two states, it merely tells them they could have such a law or similar if they wanted and according to thier district court it would be Constitutional at the Federal level.

toivo
December 1, 2012, 12:17 AM
The license must be amended for each purchase and sale, and any purchase can be denied at any time by the licensing agent for pretty much any reason. The limits on the license regarding the uses and places you can carry are also open to change at any time by the licensing agent, including when you apply for another amendment. It is not unheard of for a person to have their unrestricted (public) carry restricted to home/range use only just because they applied for an amendment to buy or sell a firearm.
I don't know what county you're describing, but please tell me so I make sure I never move there. In my county, amending a license to add or remove a firearm is strictly an administrative procedure. The judge's signature is rubber-stamped on the paperwork by the permit bureau clerk. I never even have to surrender my actual license -- only the list of registered handguns, which is a separate card. The computer spits out a new card, I pay $5, and I'm on my way. It's an annoyance, yes, but not a huge deal.

gym
December 1, 2012, 12:20 AM
The permit is only good for as long as you have a legit need for it in NYC. Once you sell your business or retire, your carry goes bye bye. I had one for 24 yrs. So I speak from experience, it was a carry permit, good 24/7 for as long as I owned the chain of stores it was predicated on, and carried cash made deposits and took money home.
I was allowed 2 guns, no restrictions. When I sold my business it had to go back to the dept. The guns were sent down to FL and I moved.

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