Bolt your safe down! Here is why...


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Owen Sparks
November 28, 2012, 01:51 AM
A 500 pound gun safe and 15 firearms was stolen intact and carried away.

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/11/thieves_break_into_springfield.html

500 pounds sounds like a lot but not to two two men with a hand truck.
Bolt it down and better yet, conceal it some way that visitors and service people will never see it. The safest safe is one nobody knows about.

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M-Cameron
November 28, 2012, 01:57 AM
and with this being MA, im sure it wont take long for the AG to drum up some charges to slap the homeowner with as punishment for allowing his firearms to be stolen.

Owen Sparks
November 28, 2012, 02:06 AM
It sounds like whoever stole it knew it was there and came prepaired.

Cesiumsponge
November 28, 2012, 02:24 AM
500lbs fully loaded, so probably 300-350lbs empty which would indicate a light-duty container....probably something like a Stack-On 14 gun container filled with guns and a few accessories or ammo. It's doubtful that a couple of bolts would really stop a pair of determined burglars like this from wrenching on the safe enough that the bolts tear through the thin sheet metal floor of the container. These things simply aren't built that tough.

300-350lbs dry for the volume of a gun safe is peanuts. I'm currently looking for a 1-1.6 cubic foot safe that's no larger than 20-22" a side. The products I'm looking at are in the 500-800lb range.

mljdeckard
November 28, 2012, 08:35 AM
I concur with #4. The bolts were probably a minor inconvenience.

I agree and I do normally, but right now I'm renting, I can't damage the wall where my lock-box is.

Ky Larry
November 28, 2012, 09:26 AM
If a pro wants what you have, you won't stop them. The best thing you can do is make them have to work so hard that they'll look for easier targets.

roadchoad
November 28, 2012, 10:24 AM
A stack-on 8 gun is very light, I can't imagine a 14 gun to be much more than 100 pounds.

As for renting, what will cost the most? A. Some drywall mud and paint. B. Security deposit. C. Replacing all your firearms

Seems obvious to me.

aarondhgraham
November 28, 2012, 10:58 AM
The 14 gun cabinet only weighs 85 pounds (http://www.stack-on.com/categories/security-cabinets-gun-cabinets/products/67).

Aarond

Batty67
November 28, 2012, 11:17 AM
My 24-gun TS Winchester weighed a tad over 500 lbs unloaded. Loaded I expect it is closer to 600 lbs now. My brother and 6'+ adult sized nephew and I moved it with a rented Uhaul appliance handtruck and it was back-breaking work for 3 adults with a proper handtruck and only 1 set of semi-significant steps. Also took maybe 30 minutes taking it around to the back of the house.

I've not yet bolted it down. But really, it would take 2 STRONG guys a lot of time to haul it away and as I've noted elsewhere--I have a loud dog and retired neighbors. I might get around to bolting it down someday, but I just can't seem to find the time.

627PCFan
November 28, 2012, 12:03 PM
Lead

Start storing your ammo stockpiles in there ;)

Teachu2
November 28, 2012, 02:50 PM
My 24-gun TS Winchester weighed a tad over 500 lbs unloaded. Loaded I expect it is closer to 600 lbs now. My brother and 6'+ adult sized nephew and I moved it with a rented Uhaul appliance handtruck and it was back-breaking work for 3 adults with a proper handtruck and only 1 set of semi-significant steps. Also took maybe 30 minutes taking it around to the back of the house.

I've not yet bolted it down. But really, it would take 2 STRONG guys a lot of time to haul it away and as I've noted elsewhere--I have a loud dog and retired neighbors. I might get around to bolting it down someday, but I just can't seem to find the time.

Theives don't care about scratches, dings, battered walls, etc. That safe can go OUT a whole lot quicker than it went IN.

ConcealedCarryMommy
November 28, 2012, 03:12 PM
As someone that lives in MA and owns guns this article made me nauseated. My biggest fear is not that I ever have to use my guns in self defense it is that I haven't secured our weapons into our house well enough. We have safes, the guns aren't all in one place. We have good locks, we use them. We have dogs that like to bite. I sincerely hope that this man doesn't get charged.

Skribs
November 28, 2012, 03:57 PM
My gun safe is there to prevent quick-access from an intruder, not to prevent theft. I am under no illusions that my weapons are ever safe from theft; I can only do a decent job.

beatledog7
November 28, 2012, 04:06 PM
A knowledgeable and sufficiently equipped team of BGs with lots of time can get into any safe, car, house, bank, etc.

And on a side note, if someone breaks into my house and steals my guns, I bear no responsibility for what he does with them. Zero, nada, zip.

Apachedriver
November 28, 2012, 04:06 PM
I'm with Skribs on this. For me, a gun safe is to prevent me from walking in on someone pointing my own gun at me or my family. Secondary is to prevent theft. But that's just another layer in the blanket.

Skribs
November 28, 2012, 04:14 PM
And on a side note, if someone breaks into my house and steals my guns, I bear no responsibility for what he does with them. Zero, nada, zip.

I agree with this. If the BGs could ONLY get guns by stealing them I might feel a bit worried about putting them in the hands of BGs, but with how easy it is to buy one (black market, FTF transfer, or simply buy in stores if you have no criminal history) I'm not too worried about my personal stake in their crime.

My guns are insured.

Husker_Fan
November 28, 2012, 04:18 PM
Skribs is right. You can make things more secure than they otherwise would be, but you can't make them perfectly secure. The purpose of safes, locks, and alarm systems aren't to prevent a robbery but to make it more difficult. Hopefully the robber moves on to an easier target.

My gun "safe" is a Remington branded safe made by Liberty. Not a true safe according to the pros here. It is bolted to a cement slab. The poured foundation runs along the back and one side and the basement storage shelves are built around the other side and top. It's by no means a perfect set up, but it would take long enough to get into that a burglar would hopefully give up and move on.

Skribs
November 28, 2012, 04:21 PM
You lucky people with your cement slabs. I'm on a third-floor condo, and part of my safe selection criteria was something me and my friend (who are not that strong) could take up the stairs.

valnar
November 28, 2012, 04:35 PM
This makes me sick to my stomach. Like a lot of people here, I take pride in my collection. I'd rather someone steal my car. (But then, I'm not a "car" guy)

Any idea of how common this is? Are there stats for this particular kind of crime, or do they chock it up to burglary?

Ehtereon11B
November 28, 2012, 04:39 PM
My safe has an empty weight of 608 pounds and probably 1000-1100 pounds loaded. That is enough to deter most criminals. I still plan on bolting it to the floor regardless of the weight.

Clark
November 28, 2012, 04:51 PM
I know someone who had the flimsy sheet metal gun safe to keep his little kids out.

The whole safe was stolen. Later that week the 44 mag revolver showed up at the nearest pawn shop dropped off by his next door neighbor's teen ager.

All the guns but one were recovered.

------------------------------------

I know a guy who sold a house to another guy I know. The first guy's heavy safe was taken out of the basement when I arrived to help put the second guy's one in.

We could barely pry one end of the safe up off the ground. How were we going to get it down the stairs?

Then I had an idea, "We could put the 4WD truck and camper in the front yard, tie a rope to it, and slowly drive forward, lowering the safe down the stairs."

My next big idea will be that we should leave big safes in basements and have locksmiths change the combinations.

Shadow 7D
November 28, 2012, 04:56 PM
there are a number of professional locksmiths that specialize in vaults and safes on this board

they move
REAL SAFES (as in 4-6 inches of SOLID [or composite] steel)
with a small crew, and one has stated that any safe not bolted down can be removed in a few minutes by those who know what they are doing.

On the other hand, he also posted pictures where a person was ripped off by the buglers using a chainsaw to cut holes, run chain, connect it to a tractor and pull the safe out of the house, through the wall.....

Teachu2
November 28, 2012, 04:57 PM
You lucky people with your cement slabs. I'm on a third-floor condo, and part of my safe selection criteria was something me and my friend (who are not that strong) could take up the stairs.
You can conceal it a bit in a closet. and use hollow-wall anchors to secure it to the floor. Also lag bolt it to the wall studs. Then put several hundred pounds of lead in the bottom of it.

I have a total of five RSCs at home. The two most obvious ones are bolted to the slab, the wall, and each other. One is tax records and heirlooms, the other is ammo. My biggest one is concealed, and I recently added a Barska Biometric Rifle "safe" in the master bedroom closet, well hidden. The fifth one is in my workshop, mostly for my metal-cutting tools.

My backyard is equipped with loud dogs, the house and detached workshop have alarms with radio backups, and the Sheriff's response time is under seven minutes. All I have to do is slow the burglars down enough - but I also carry insurance.

Certaindeaf
November 28, 2012, 05:25 PM
there are a number of professional locksmiths that specialize in vaults and safes on this board

they move
REAL SAFES (as in 4-6 inches of SOLID [or composite] steel)
with a small crew, and one has stated that any safe not bolted down can be removed in a few minutes by those who know what they are doing.

On the other hand, he also posted pictures where a person was ripped off by the buglers using a chainsaw to cut holes, run chain, connect it to a tractor and pull the safe out of the house, through the wall.....
I used to move and remodel jewelry stores (but not the safes!) when I was around twenty.. a long time ago. At one store, the owner said we could have the safe.. about a cubic yard in size. It wasn't bolted down. It stayed there because my friend and I, the owners of the remodeling company, hadn't a real clue how to move it though we tried a bit. We were too rushed to even sell it as it sat.

Clark
November 28, 2012, 08:29 PM
A guy gave me an old bank safe that was on a steel work bench with steel wheels.

He rolled it into my driveway.

It as so heavy, I could never figure out how to get it up off the bench safely.

The guy had a locksmith change the combinations and told me what it was. When I opened the door and looked at the lock, I could not understand how it worked. So many turns and multiple turns. My son tried to explain it to me, but by then I was out of enthusiasm.

So I towed the bench back to the other guy's drive way with my vehicle.

I would rather see 10 cubic yards of steer manure dumped in my driveway than see that safe again.

Rum Smuggler
November 28, 2012, 11:07 PM
One big mistake I see is gun safes in garages. Everytime the door goes up the world sees that you have a safe.
At minimum cover it or put it in a cabinet.
Then get a hammer drill, if on slab, and put 4 fat red heads (anchor bolts) through the bottom in each corner.
If you are tight to the wall figure out the stud layout and put 6 or more (safe size dependent) lags through the back of the safe into the wall studs.
Be aware, if the safe is fireproof the walls are filled with a damp powder that will play hell on your humidity and corrosion levels.
So seal up any holes with some caulking before running the lags through.
I also store all my ammo in the bottom to add weight.
I also save all my loose quarters and bag them and throw them in as well. Kind of a mini savings plan.
Lock up all your tools and prybars and sledge hammers as most junkies come with very little tools and will use yours to get the job done.
With a safe bolted to the floor they can't pry from below. And if it is heavy and loaded with guns AND dead weight it will be really tough to break even small anchor bolts.
Even a 1000lb safe can easily be moved with 3 guys and a dolly. Then they tip it into a van and off they go. So bolt it and hide it.
If the owner wants to move a heavy safe, the first thing to do is to open it and take off the door. More than half the weight is in the door. In my younger days I did some professional moving in San Francisco (hills and stairs!) and we did safes and 100's of pianos. 1/2 of my coworkers had records and drug habits, so be aware. And be smart.
Do not plan to get around to it, or think you are not able to protect your guns.
Make a fake panel in your closet if a safe is too much. Or lay them between rafters in the attic.
But protect your guns. And protect us from criminals getting your guns. I can see having one gun at the ready or two, but not 14 long guns and 5 hand guns falling into the wrong hands.
It is just being responsibile.
Criminals are industrious little pukes and we owe it to our children to hand down all our guns. They won't be able to replace them 30 years from now.

erikk8829
November 29, 2012, 08:39 AM
My Fort Knox Guardian weighs a tad under 1300 empty but two guys delivered it with no problems It is now bolted to a cement slab

Batty67
November 29, 2012, 09:18 AM
True, but then they'd have to get the safe UP 6 steps. Getting it down 6 steps was hard enough for 3 people. Could my 600 lb safe be taken whole out of my house? Absolutely, but it would take at least 2 strong guys with a proper hand cart and at least 15 minutes of backbreaking work. And there still is my dog, close-by retired neighbors in my surbaban neighborhood. Etc.

As my kids are 13 and 12, keeping my firearms away from my kids (and their friends) is no longer an issue. I see my non-bolted safe as a theft deterrant, not a theft eliminator. It should prevent non-determined thieves from accessing my guns, and that will suffice in most home robberies.

heeler
November 29, 2012, 10:13 AM
Pity.
The poor guy.
And yes I have been on that scene three times,losing guns twice.

Not sure why it is thought that the people who steal your guns are mostly people that know you or are related to you as that has not been my case at all and judging by the amount of residential burglaries that are at epidemic levels here in Houston,these are not people that even remotely know you pretty much more times than not.
Luckily my home has a concrete slab and my Amsec BF weighs 1250 pounds empty,but I still had it anchored with four half inch diameter four inch long Red Head concrete anchors.
I truely hope I dont ever go through this horrible scenario ever again!

ridgerunner1965
November 29, 2012, 07:35 PM
there was a video on youtube a few years ago showing 2 guys breaking into a gun safe with 2 ordinary crowbars.not a stack- on cheapy but a very heavy gun safe. they tipped it over on its back and in less than 2 minutes had the door open.i had just paid 1100 buks for a safe just like it and it made me want to puke. it looked like it helped them to have it on its back but im not sure they couldn't of done it standing up also.

4v50 Gary
November 29, 2012, 07:40 PM
Bolt it down.
Camouflage or conceal it.
Alarms.
Dogs.
Fence/gate.

Can you see security is layered like an onion (or like Shrek)?

303tom
November 29, 2012, 08:17 PM
To steal mine, you would have to steal a room out of the center of my house, thats after fighting off the dog...........

Certaindeaf
November 29, 2012, 08:59 PM
I heard that in Vietnam they stick a garden hose into the house and gas the occupants and then take up house there.

JohnKSa
November 29, 2012, 09:05 PM
The guns will likely be sold on through underground gun markets and end up “getting into the hands of the wrong people,” he said.They're already in the hands of the wrong people. I know what he's saying, but his quote makes it sound like the burglars are really ok, it's just that they'll pass them along to "the wrong people".

StrutStopper
November 30, 2012, 10:19 PM
I think my safe weighs like 500 lbs empty. It isn't bolted down, but it is in the basement. My wuss dog won't go in the basement but someone would have to bring the thing up a flight of stairs and then face the dog to get out. Of course, they might take the time to break into the safe downstairs and remove the guns thru the window while my dogs are going crazy upstairs... Eventually I'll bolt the thing down to make it harder to move. The waterproof guarantee only holds if I bolt it down and use rubber washers anyway...

Owen Sparks
November 30, 2012, 10:36 PM
Moderate precautions are all you need if no one knows that you have a safe. Potential thieves will not come prepared with a hand truck or a cutting torch if they don't know that you have a safe. The main thing is to keep it concealed from all visitors and service people and keep your mouth shut. The safest safe is the one nobody knows about.

EddieNFL
December 1, 2012, 08:55 AM
Lead

Start storing your ammo stockpiles in there ;)
So where do I put my guns...and the rest of my ammo? :eek:

22-rimfire
December 1, 2012, 12:56 PM
Gun safes just buy time, just like fire proof safes and other storage containers. A determined thief will still steal your firearms and any other valuables contained in a gun safe. The safe does tend to centralize valuables however.

I went to one house once that was vacant at the time and there was a gun safe out front on the drive way cut open. Suprised somebody didn't take it for scrap. :)

Redlg155
December 1, 2012, 01:26 PM
layers of security are always your best bet. The number of layers depends on the value of what you are protecting. Even the military uses electronic monitoring to protect individual unit Arms rooms.

If I can afford several thousands of dollars worth of weapons and a expensive gun safe, then I can afford electronic monotoring and probably the most effective deterrant, a dog.

Heck, I used to have a Siamese Cat that would just as well eat your eyeballs than be petted. He made a great guardian.

CB900F
December 1, 2012, 06:46 PM
Fella's;

Just a couple of general comments on the views expressed earlier in this thread. And I am one of the professional safe guys who frequent this forum.

One: Don't store your ammo in your safe. A. You're using valuable space for relatively cheap goods. Use a cheap sheet metal/plastic locker instead.
B. If the interior of the safe reaches the ignition point of even one round of ammo, it usually sets all of it off. Then there's a cloud of incandescent gas in the safe. Goodby contents. I've seen the results firsthand, and it's not pretty.

Two: Bolting is good. The whole idea is to make it easier for the thief to bother your neighbor rather than you. If it's not bolted down, you'd be surprised at what two people who know how to move safes, can move.

Three: The video mentioned is: "Security On Sale" And it's on youtube I do believe. Anybody who has or is contemplating getting a "safe" should view it. The pity of it is these days there's no law in the land that states what may or may not be sold & called a safe. I could scotch tape my business cards together & put a pin across the corner & sell it to you as a "safe" if you wished to buy it.

I sell safes, not tin cans. Downside is, they cost more money, but not as much more as you might think.

900F

Reloadron
December 1, 2012, 08:28 PM
When I decided it was time for a gun safe I started doing some homework. After doing some homework I ended up going to The Cleveland Safe Company. (http://www.clevelandsafe.com/) Conveniently located for my shopping pleasure. :)

The merit here was I got to shop and compare safes in a very large showroom will all kinds of safes and vault entries. You name it and they pretty much had it. They also stocked a large selection of gun safes which was pretty cool. Crawling around on these things was a big plus for me.

My gun room as I am building it up was originally like an old front porch area of the house with no basement and sitting on a 6" concrete pad. That area is now part of the house and included an entry point. It is now heated and air conditioned. I arranged for delivery on a safe weighing in at well over 1,000 pounds. I removed the original door to get the thing into the house as well as most of the door framing and with some effort and their cool tools and things designed to move safes we got it in. They planted it where I wanted it and I lagged it down. The only way it is going anywhere is if someone removed a section of the front of the house. The house entries to that area are about a 12" to 18" drop.

The safe contains our important documents as well as my wife's jewelery collection. The only ammunition in there is a few loaded magazines and guns. Ammunition is cheap and expendable, I can get some cheap stack-on safes if I want a safe for ammunition.

One of the forum members here has posted pictures of his safe's contents after a fire and it was ugly! While my safe has a high fire rating and we have a good fire department his post got me thinking. This spring I have plans for major continuation of house renovations. I don't see it as difficult or really very expensive to plumb in a simple fire sprinkler system. The existing outside entry door is going to be removed making it more difficult to do much of anything with the safe.

Overall I figure it this way. There are considerable investments between her jewelery and my guns in that safe plus other valuables.Skimping on a safe would be a foolish move. While safes have a pretty high markup in some cases the distributor I dealt with was willing to come down on the pricing. The delivery and setup of this beast was essential also. No way in hell was I with a small army going to plant this thing.

Just My Take......
Ron

GLOOB
December 1, 2012, 08:31 PM
How about having a decoy safe? I would love for a 500+ lb safe loaded with scrap metal to be lugged away by some very disappointed thieves. Wouldn't take much to set the trap. Hang a holster on the handle. Hide the real valuables.

22-rimfire
December 1, 2012, 09:23 PM
Not actually a bad idea if you can afford to do such things GLOOB.

Shadow 7D
December 1, 2012, 09:49 PM
you can usually find cheaper firesafe and GSA filing cabinet, I bought some older safes etc 3 of them, for less than 75 dollars, they are NOT proper safes, nor large enough to be a 'gunsafe' but they are purty lil safes, and will, some day, make dandy decoys
right now, one of the (a GSA locking filing drawers with included security door - the Mosler lock was gutted, I mean the lock is there but the bolt and associated is missing)
it's an inexpensive insert, but the outside looks like a safe...
got them off of craigs list/local lists.

Reminds me, CB want the dial and lock pack?

jrdolall
December 1, 2012, 11:14 PM
Knowledgeable, determined thiefs can steal about any safe. Any thief with a crowbar can break into the $300 safes at Walmart. It requires advanced knowledge and multiple perps to steal a "quality" safe that is bolted down.

My safes are to keep kids and casual thiefs out of my guns. I do bolt them down but have few illusions.

ridgerunner1965
December 2, 2012, 01:01 AM
lots of guys keep touting ther dogs as a deterrance to burglary.excuse me? wrap your left arm in a white towle, when dog grabs it, stab him in lungs with hunting knife. now 2 or more dogs cud be a problem.but one is a 20 second delay.on the plus side if yu are home yu will have a good warning.

Arp32
December 2, 2012, 01:25 AM
Ridgerunner, it all depends on the dog. I've got a sweetheart Akita and a temperamental German Shepherd. You cant tell by looking, most folks are terrified of the Akita and go to pet the happy looking Shepherd. Unfortunately the shepherd has bitten people before, and not once did he know he was supposed to go for the forearm like on TV. Twice he broke skin in the abdomen through clothing. The last time he bit, it was a trainer who does work for the border patrol and some local police agencies. You'd think if anyone would have known how to deflect an angry dog, it would have been that kind of dog trainer.

Even if you're used to playing with your own dog, doesn't mean another one will fight the same way. Im a dog guy and am used to big dogs, but I wouldn't take my chances against any aggressive breed over 70 pounds or so.

Redlg155
December 2, 2012, 10:12 AM
I would think one would stand out wearing a red man suit for dog protection.

Reloadron
December 2, 2012, 11:20 AM
Yeah, as to the dogs thing. We have two and there has never been a time when there were less than two. They bark at sounds outside and all of those wonderful things that dogs like to do. They may or may not serve as a deterrent to a break in. They may convince a potential thief that he may fare better a few doors down in a home sans dogs. I sure as hell would not depend on them as a major deterrent.

While a good well thought out gun safe is a big plus it is also not a single solution to home security. A quality safe combined with a good and reliable home security system is a big plus. The list of making things secure goes on limited only by location and budget. A good safe being only a single component of a larger system.

Looking at my situation as every situation is different I feel comfortable with what my wife and I have as it works for us. That is what becomes important, I do not see it as just a safe but look at the much larger picture.

Ron

Girodin
December 3, 2012, 06:55 AM
I recently helped a friend move some weight lifting machines around their gym. Three of use were able to move a piece of a machine that was taller than any gun safe I've seen and had about 1000 Lbs of weights plus the rest of the metal machine. With a crappy hand truck it really wasn't even that hard. I'd figure my gun safe weighs at least 800+ LBS loaded, so I'm sure someone could move it if ( it were not bolted and) they had a hand truck and a few a guys. After all it got into the house in the first place.

Any security measures can be defeated. However, an alarm and a hard to move safe will probably thwart a lot of burglars (who in my professional experience tend to be drug addicts looking for a means to pay for their habit).

My guns are insured.

An insurance check would do very little to comfort me from losing my grandfather's hunting rifle, my father's deer rifle, the first guns my Dad gave me when I was young, and various other family heirlooms. I'm not super sentimental about most stuff however I'd be pissed to lose those guns, and I could easily afford to buy equivalent (make, year, model) guns of all of them tomorrow.

Girodin
December 3, 2012, 07:19 AM
To steal mine, you would have to steal a room out of the center of my house, thats after fighting off the dog...........

I have had dogs. I love dogs. I can tell many stories about what a powerful deterrent a big dog can be. However, dogs can actually be dealt with in number of ways.

wrap your left arm in a white towle, when dog grabs it, stab him in lungs with hunting knife.

I take it you are not too familiar with dogs. Considering a large powerful breed of dog (GSD, Rottie, Dobe, etc) can easily break bones when it bits that towel might be of fairly limited value. And as has been mentioned what is to guarantee the dog goes for your arm? Not all trained dogs are trained to target an arm. As to untrained dogs, I've seen in a number of cases of dog bites and many were not to the hand or arm. Even if you tried to offer up the arm as a target its no guarantee that's what the dog will hit or that it wont redirect very quickly. Untrained dogs tend to chain bite and redirect, if they bite. I think many folks would be surprised by the speed, agility, and power of a some dogs. If the thing hit your head or neck, or knocked you down while snapping your arm you may never to a chance to stab. I'd much rather just spray the thing in the face with hornet spray (a tactic that's been used by farm invaders in S. Africa), bear mace or the like. I've seen a taser used with very good effect on an attacking rottweiler.

Of course none of this means they are not a deterrent they are. Even a very friendly dog that would just want to play with the burglar can be a powerful visual deterrent. They may be a measure that can be defeated, but many random burglars would just as soon look for yard where they don't have to deal with this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vTF6OBQ-CrI/TWQblQDZhUI/AAAAAAAAAas/EkL0x_zMjt4/s1600/doberman.jpg


As others have said, layering security, maximizes your chances but even then is not fool proof. Securing and concealing a safe does seem like a worthwhile additional layer, at least to me.

vito
December 3, 2012, 10:00 AM
I don't own any long guns and was interested in a smaller, handgun and ammo appropriate safe that is heavy and strong enough to deter burglars. I'd appreciate any links to companies that have such a safe.

Reloadron
December 3, 2012, 07:03 PM
I don't own any long guns and was interested in a smaller, handgun and ammo appropriate safe that is heavy and strong enough to deter burglars. I'd appreciate any links to companies that have such a safe.
If you never plan to own any long guns and only plan to secure handguns or documents or whatever then I would look for something along these lines. (http://www.clevelandsafe.com/money-chests.asp) The link being just an example. Just keep in mind that any HSC (Home Security Container) of this type needs well secured. Large ones can easily be carried away weighing in at less than 300 pounds. Again, the link is just a basic example.

Ron

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