[gfanikf]

I'm at my wits ends trying to decrimp LC 3006. I have the RCBS Pocket Swager Combo, but it seems to not work on a Lee Turret or Hand Press. I've rammed them through and I swear it looks like nothing changed. Now something that kind of worked was putting the brass upside down in a drill bit and using a chamfer, buts inconsistent (perhaps I'm not running it long enough), and I have to wonder if putting the brass in the drill bit could cause any case damage.


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[cbmax]

Hi,

I used to re-cut the primer pocket with my RCBS trim mate tool, but this became far too slow and cumbersome. I now use a Dillon Swager. Set it to properly bottom out and away you go. No fuss, no muss!

CB

[MtnCreek]

I've rammed them through and I swear it looks like nothing changed.
Have you measured the difference or tried to seat a primer? Properly swaged pocket doesn't look much different from a pocket with the crimp still there.

[gfanikf]

Have you measured the difference or tried to seat a primer? Properly swaged pocket doesn't look much different from a pocket with the crimp still there.

Really? I though t the crimp ring should be gone? I haven't gone to measuring them as I didn't thing anything was working.

Hi,

I used to re-cut the primer pocket with my RCBS trim mate tool, but this became far too slow and cumbersome. I now use a Dillon Swager. Set it to properly bottom out and away you go. No fuss, no muss!

CB

I keep feeling like I should just get the Dillon and be done with it, but its not cheap.

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[MtnCreek]

The crimp ring will still be there. Only the little 'crimp' or small amount of brass that extruded in toward the primer is removed. I like to see a very slight radious at the opening for the pocket. I've never used the RCBS swager, but I'm sure it will work if properly set up.

[Blue68f100]

The RCBS swager works fine if adj right. Like they have already said the outer ring is still there, but the inside of the pocket has been opened up at the top.

[gfanikf]

The crimp ring will still be there. Only the little 'crimp' or small amount of brass that extruded in toward the primer is removed. I like to see a very slight radious at the opening for the pocket. I've never used the RCBS swager, but I'm sure it will work if properly set up.







The RCBS swager works fine if adj right. Like they have already said the outer ring is still there, but the inside of the pocket has been opened up at the top.

Well that explains things. Could anyone post some before and after pictures? It would be a very helpful reference for me.

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[USSR]

I keep feeling like I should just get the Dillon and be done with it, but its not cheap.

Do yourself a favor and get the Dillon Super Swage 600. One of the wisest investments I've made.

Don

[gfanikf]

Do yourself a favor and get the Dillon Super Swage 600. One of the wisest investments I've made.

Don
If I can offload my RCBS dies, I think I might just do that, especially since I can make it pretty much automatic using this guide.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/309270_.html

Only issue is you have to mount it, but I assume C Clamps will work the magic they always seem to be able to do.

[moxie]

It doesn't look any different before and after.

If you lose patience with that tool, as I did, get a RCBS bench mounted swager. Works great and much faster and easier. Dillon has a similar tool for about $25 more.

I now use the swaging spud to measure primer pockets of range brass to see if they need to be swaged. So not a total loss.

[MtnCreek]

Only issue is you have to mount it, but I assume C Clamps will work the magic they always seem to be able to do.

Clamps may get in the way of its operation. Mine is secured to the bench with 3 wood screws.

[jmorris]

Best way I have found is stage 3 on a 1050.

[moxie]

C-clamps might work, but screws or bolts are the real solution. You have to give the handle a pretty good crank.

[USSR]

Mine is secured to the bench with 3 wood screws.


+1.

Don

[gfanikf]

C-clamps might work, but screws or bolts are the real solution. You have to give the handle a pretty good crank.
For the moment I only have a workbench that I can't drill holes into (it's borrowed from my dad...who despite not using it for a decade gave strict instructions)...still it It does have holes in it that might allow for mounting.

[MtnCreek]

Clamps and Screws then. Screw the swager onto a board and cut the screws off flush on the underside so they won't hurt the table. Clamp the board to the table with a peice of cardboard between the two.

[mtrmn]

The RCBS is expanding the crimp out of the brass-you'll understand better when you prime the brass. The crimp ring will remain.

BUT-the CH4D swager/primer combo will do it much faster and easier, and it's much cheaper than Dillon or RCBS's upgraded swagers. I would wager faster than Dillon as well because you only have like 1 inch of press movement and it can be done as fast as you can swap out brass in your shell holder. I went through 100 rds in less than 3 minutes.

http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/priming/419000

I know I'll get all kinds of arguments from a lot of Dillon fans, but they need to realize I'm a Dillon fan as well. Try it--it's cheap, high quality, made in USA, and best of all FAST. Makes a big difference when you have thousands of rounds to swage.

[Guilty]

I bought the dillon swager and am very happy with the product. I swaged 1300 rounds of 5.56 as quick as I could load the brass, pull the handle, remove and repeat. I believe in the buy once, cry once method and the dillon lives up to it's reputation for quality and ease of use.

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm at my wits ends trying to decrimp LC 3006. I have the RCBS Pocket Swager Combo, but it seems to not work on a Lee Turret or Hand Press. I've rammed them through and I swear it looks like nothing changed.
I use an RCBS Swage Combo and it works very well BUT, the instructions clearly state: "Note: Not for use on Progressive Press." That should include a turret press but they didn't write it that way.

I own a Lee Classic Turret press and an RCBS Rockchucker and I have to mount the Swager on the RCBS press for it to work properly without making any modifications. On a good note, once you have it set up it's very fast!

Might I suggest buying a very inexpensive single stage press like the one offered by Lee. Like This One (https://fsreloading.com/lee-reloader-press-90045.html). It won't be a waste of money because you can also use it as a decapping station with a universal decapping die and a friend also uses one for neck sizing only.

[gfanikf]

I use an RCBS Swage Combo and it works very well BUT, the instructions clearly state: "Note: Not for use on Progressive Press." That should include a turret press but they didn't write it that way.

I own a Lee Classic Turret press and an RCBS Rockchucker and I have to mount the Swager on the RCBS press for it to work properly without making any modifications. On a good note, once you have it set up it's very fast!

Might I suggest buying a very inexpensive single stage press like the one offered by Lee. Like This One (https://fsreloading.com/lee-reloader-press-90045.html). It won't be a waste of money because you can also use it as a decapping station with a universal decapping die and a friend also uses one for neck sizing only.
I should mention I removed the middle part of the Turret press to make it function like a single stage press (or try to). I think I might just sell the turret (since the removal I did wasn't more than taking out the middle spindle) since I'm not planning on reloading any pistol calibers and at the moment there is no reason for me to need a turret one. Then again the Single Stage Turret mod seems to be work otherwise.

[ArchAngelCD]

You can use the Swager on the turret press if you remove the black plastic chuck that holds the auto-index rod in place. It's only one small nut and bolt and you won't need the auto-index since you said you're not loading handgun rounds now. That would save you a lot of money and the press itself is strong enough to load rifle ammo.

[gfanikf]

You can use the Swager on the turret press if you remove the black plastic chuck that holds the auto-index rod in place. It's only one small nut and bolt and you won't need the auto-index since you said you're not loading handgun rounds now. That would save you a lot of money and the press itself is strong enough to load rifle ammo.
I tried that at one point, but I since I was expecting the entire ring to be gone, and when it wasn't, I gave up on it. I think I might try that again tonight first.

That said if anyone has a comparison between the two tips and how to measure and verify it's different. I have a feeling all my methods I tried actually did work in retrospect since you could see the red primer sealant larger disappear (indicating something was removed). I also suspect issues with brass getting stuck was due to the die not being lubed and the brass needing another lube.

[beatledog7]

When you swage a crimp, the visual appearance of the ring or the staking remains. Those marks are never going to go away. The key is that the opening of the primer pocket, through which the primer must go, was shrunk by the crimping but is reopened by the swaging. The fact that there is a visual remnant of the crimp is of no consequence.

[gfanikf]

When you swage a crimp, the visual appearance of the ring or the staking remains. Those marks are never going to go away. The key is that the opening of the primer pocket, through which the primer must go, was shrunk by the crimping but is reopened by the swaging. The fact that there is a visual remnant of the crimp is of no consequence.
I guess I can try taking a before and after picture and measures with deprimed and resized round before and after I attempted to swage it. I just don't want to think I've done it right and then find all the primers are pain to get in, which indicates I didn't do it right.

[JustSomeGuyinCA]

I guess I can try taking a before and after picture and measures with deprimed and resized round before and after I attempted to swage it. I just don't want to think I've done it right and then find all the primers are pain to get in, which indicates I didn't do it right.
Pictures won't help in determining if you have swaged the primer pocket correctly. The easiest way is to try seating a primer. If you haven't removed enough of the crimp, you will have difficulty in seating the primer. If you have over-swaged, the primer will seat with too little resistance. Its a "feel" operation.

[gfanikf]

Pictures won't help in determining if you have swaged the primer pocket correctly. The easiest way is to try seating a primer. If you haven't removed enough of the crimp, you will have difficulty in seating the primer. If you have over-swaged, the primer will seat with too little resistance. Its a "feel" operation.
Well, that alone tells me I did the crimped ones wrong last time. The first time I did some priming was on non crimped brass (and even though there is a post I made when I didn't push hard enough the first time I primed floating around lol) there was a marked difference in the two experiences. I might also try using the Lee Ram Prime for once, but the Lee XR, when not having annoying issues with primers loading, is pretty easy. I've been told thought you get a better feel when using a non ram primer FWIW.

[moxie]

Yup! Go with Lee Autoprime.

[poco loco]

have you actually tried seating a primer in your swaged brass?

That will answer all your questions on it, there should be firm pressure required but it should not be hard to prime, use the hand primer rather than the press mount as the press has so much leverage anything feels easy, even crushing one sideways....

I use an ancient Herters swaging die that is probably older than I am and it works like a champ. I can not see the difference as my eyes are not calibrated to the nearest thousandth but the feel tells the story....Plus you only have to do it once in the life of the cartridge and I load soft and only bolt guns so mine last a long time, as such, I can not justify the cost of the Dillon product though I am sure it is a good product.
Just not something I need.

Also you could just get the cheap hand reamer, takes a second or 2 per piece, I just swage so the pockets last a little longer. I do use the reamer to chamfer the edge on the rare occasion I get a case without a slight chamfer.

Then again, I am the definition of Cheap Celt.

[eam3clm@att.net]

I have the lee press linked in post 19. My Rcbs swager does not work well with that press. There is not enough clearance between the ram and the vertical section of the press. The part that removes the case from the swager rubs the press frame and also pushes the swager out some.

[EddieNFL]

If I can offload my RCBS dies, I think I might just do that, especially since I can make it pretty much automatic using this guide.

I gave mine away after using a Super Swage.

[ArchAngelCD]

That said if anyone has a comparison between the two tips and how to measure and verify it's different. I have a feeling all my methods I tried actually did work in retrospect since you could see the red primer sealant larger disappear (indicating something was removed). I also suspect issues with brass getting stuck was due to the die not being lubed and the brass needing another lube.
First off, no lube is necessary and no lube should be used when using the Swager. It's just not necessary.

If you want to see and easy way to adjust the Swager take a look at this Youtube video. It's a pretty good video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdkA7vDeaes

[alsaqr]

i use a case chamfering tool in the drill press. Takes about four seconds to remove the crimp.

[mtrmn]

I have the lee press linked in post 19. My Rcbs swager does not work well with that press. There is not enough clearance between the ram and the vertical section of the press. The part that removes the case from the swager rubs the press frame and also pushes the swager out some.
The CH4D linked in post 17 will work with this press and all the swaging etc takes place ON TOP of the press. NOT below where the die screws in. You have plenty room to swap out brass in your shell holder which snaps into THE TOP of the die. The swager stem snaps into the ram where the shellholder would normally be. Only requires about an inch or two of press handle movement-NOT a full stroke, which boosts productivity tenfold. Once you get the tool adjusted just right, you can go through a LOT of rounds very quickly. When it comes to this tedious work, faster is better, and the brass will be easy to prime. This tool also gives you the ability to prime on the press, which I have always found much easier.

[traderpats]

Just so you know IF you do go with the Dillon Super Swage you hardly feel any resistance during the swaging process. The amount of material actually swaged appears to be miniscule and that is all that is needed to properly remove the crimp. I had to use one of those magnifying lights to actually see any change in the primer pocket. Just a tiny bit of material is moved and that was right at the opening of the pocket for the most part.

Barely touch the brass with the swage rod and try seating a primer. It should go in snugly, adjust from there either way if need be ...

[RainDodger]

I used the Dillon swager for years and years, and hassled with swaging mixed brass that had different base thicknesses.

Now I use a powered (Hornady case prep machine) reamer that takes seconds, is easy to use, and leaves a perfect, radiused (and clean) primer pocket. Works great.... and you don't have to have an expensive powered machine to use a reamer. They work by hand just as well.

As always, just my choice. :)

[choppinlow]

I have the RCBS and when done right I can see the primer pocket swagged open a bit. As mentioned, the "ring" mark remains, but the pocket has a visible slight bevel as you would expect. Perhaps you do not have it set up properly? I noticed someone said you do not need lube, and while it is not necessary I think it does make it easier (and does not cause a problem). You are swaging brass and reforming it to some extent, similar to sizing, and I think the lube can be beneficial. Just my 2 cents.

[Searcher4851]

There is very little brass actually being "formed" in the swaging process, and I've never even considered using lube. In fact, I'm more interested in keeping stuff OUT of the primer pocket. The CH4D swager is reasonably priced, fast, effective, and bypasses the problem with different brands of brass having different base thicknesses. JMHO

[RainDodger]

When I did use the Dillon swager, there was no need for any lube, at least for me. Never heard of using lube when swaging primer pockets.

Now my Dillon swager just sits though. Like I said, I gave up swaging for reaming.

[hentown]

I hate to state the obvious, but why wouldn't you just try seating a primer? Wouldn't that kind of answer your questions and not require the posting of pics, etc.?? :evil:

[kingmt]

The other post about the CH4D is the same as I would say. I'd like to add is pay the $2 or so for a extra ram so you don't have to change that tiny screw if you get the team prime with it. Seems look everything was $35 shipped.

[Swampman]

I have the RCBS swager, but I really never liked it and preferred just using a Wilson case chamfer tool. I recently borrowed a friends Dillon and love it, just be aware that you'll have to sort your brass to use it since it has to be adjusted for a particular web thickness.

No matter what method you use to remove the crimp, you really need to actually prime a few of the newly swaged or cut cases as you process them. It's the only way to tell if you're doing it correctly.

[SSN Vet]

if I'm doing a bunch, I chuck a case chamfer tool in the drill press (5/8" dia. chuck) and hold the brass in my hand with a rubber dish washing glove (for grip).

I bump the primer pocket into the chamfer tool (spinning at the DPs lowest speed) with a calibrated "umph" and immediately let off as soon as a see a shaving start to peel (which happens very quickly).

[GLOOB]

Yup. Don't worry about getting it exactly the right depth. Just hit 'em with the chamfer and move on. The fact that the cutting swath gets wider the deeper you go makes the cutting somewhat self-limiting.

Then keep a chamfer tool chucked up in a hand drill next to the press while you're priming. If a primer doesn't start easily, you can fix it right there. Maybe a crimped pocket slipped through, you need to open up a decrimped pocket a little more, or if even a non-crimped pocket is being a little stubborn, it doesn't matter. If the primer doesn't start easily, take it out and hit it with the chamfer.

[straight-shooter]

A couple weeks ago I picked up the RCBS Bench mounted swager. Similar to the Dillon Super 600. The RCBS is just as convenient and got the job done in a short fashion. The primers seat perfectly with a good amount of resistance and proper feel using a hand primer. Thumbs up for the RCBS.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/319662/rcbs-bench-mounted-primer-pocket-swager

There's a rebate available for $10 off

[highlander 5]

I've a Dillon 600 bolted to a x12 that I can clamp to my bench if needed. Tried the RCBS swage tool thatattaches to the press and never had good luck with it.

[Ken70]

The swagging proponents just can't deal with being able to do the job without sorting headstamps, adjusting for each of those, and paying close to $100 or more for the "tool". A $5 reamer just is too simple, direct, inexpensive, for them. Typically Windex and Simple Green drinkers.....What color is CH4D equipment? I need that info to tweak them.:neener:

[1SOW]

I've tried three methods of removing 9mm WCC brass crimps with mixed results.

I use a drill press with a post in a vice to hold the case. The depth of cut is controlled by the D.P. stop. 5 seconds each case. SOME WCC cases are thicker from the bottom of the flash hole to the opening in the case. A little finesse has to be used to not remove too much brass on these.

1. Tried just chamferring: 3-4% light strikes (100 rds). Second hit fired them. Went to bigger chamfer, same results.
2. Used a wire sized drill to remove crimp: 2% Light hits (hundred rds)
3. Just bought and started using the Hornady "Reamer" bit in my drill press. For the first time, seating the primers now feels and looks exactly the same as with standard WIN cases. I use a turret press and can feel the difference when seating the soft Federal primers.

I expect the next 100rd test to be 100% successful. I'll test next week.
These are really superior cases if the primer seating problem is fixed.

[EddieNFL]

A couple weeks ago I picked up the RCBS Bench mounted swager. Similar to the Dillon Super 600.

Just googled it. Got to be miles ahead of their die set.

Typically Windex and Simple Green drinkers.....

I like that analogy. Windex has been around as long as I can remember, is very popular and works great. Don't know much about simple green, but it's a great cleaner.


What color is CH4D equipment?

The die set is unfinished steel, but their presses are black. I would go with a Michael Jordan comparison - fast, strong, champion...

[BBDartCA]

Might I suggest buying a very inexpensive single stage press like the one offered by Lee. Like This One (https://fsreloading.com/lee-reloader-press-90045.html).

When using the RCBS system with that Lee press, there is not enough clearance at the bottom of the press for the cup that used to remove the brass from the mandrel. It still works but its clumsy and slows the process. I find the RCBS to not remove enough of the sawge on 30-06, 308 brass - I still have to kiss the brass with the Lyman hand swage cutter to avoid excessive force or damage when priming. But on crimped primers like you see with HXP, it works great.

[mtrmn]

The swagging proponents just can't deal with being able to do the job without sorting headstamps, adjusting for each of those, and paying close to $100 or more for the "tool". A $5 reamer just is too simple, direct, inexpensive, for them. Typically Windex and Simple Green drinkers.....What color is CH4D equipment? I need that info to tweak them.:neener:
CH4D is black, IMO should be Caterpillar yellow-heavy duty and gets the job done. No problems with different headstamps, costs about 40 bucks or so with shipping. Does a fine job of priming on the press as well. I swage literally thousands of rounds, so I need something that gets it done in the least amount of time and effort-so far this is it.

I've accumulated a lot of different colored equipment over the last 31 yrs of reloading, some I use and some just sits off to the side because I found something better or I realized it was really unnecessary for my purposes.
When I find something that stands out from everything else I try to inform others so as to be a help to fellow reloaders. You have the right to decide for yourself (at least for now) what you like best in your situation.

[kingmt]

I don't sort brass. I adjust it to just clear the crimp but not bottom out. I time myself at 1K an hour.

[gfanikf]

Well it seems for me the best thing was using the drill bit and the Lee Chamfer. They all fit in perfectly. Ironically one that wasn't before had a high primer that would go in, so for lack of any other option I deprimed a live primer. Worked good enough....I have no desire to normally do it.

So I'm going to most like stick with case in the drill bit and using the chamfer, since I can easily sit outside and do a bunch of them.

Oh I got a bullet puller finally...it sucks the Frankford Arsenal one is going back to Amazon. Ironically I did get two pulls on one hit...and everything else nothing.

[mtrmn]

On the impact bullet pullers--you need to hit something really solid like a concrete floor or a steel vise/anvil. A wood workbench apparently will have enough give in it to require several hits per bullet pulled. I stuff a piece of paper towel down in the puller to cushion the bullet as it comes flying out of the case--especially with cast or soft nose bullets. If I have very many to pull I break out the collet-type puller.

[Swampman]

I'm not much of a Kool-Aid drinker (I prefer beer myself), but I've tried numerous methods of removing primer crimps. If you want to cut 'em out, use the Hornady (the Lyman tool truly sucks), or a quality case chamfer tool (be careful so that you don't remove too much).
If you prefer swaging them, the Dillon is great and gives you primer pockets with the easy seating that you would expect from virgin, uncrimped commercial brass.
My personal choice would be the Dillon, especially since I didn't have to actually pay for it.
The Hornady system works very well however, and in my opinion, will result in fewer cases lost to having "overprocessed" primer pockets than you'll get with a case chamfer tool.
I've never tried the CH4D tool, but it sounds good (eventually I'm gonna have to return this Dillon...).

[dgod]

Buy a Swager from Midway, $20-@25, fits in your press, works GREAT, comes with large and small Swagger pins and works on both Pistol and Rifle brass. You have to use it only once on a piece of brass, then it is ready for your next step, Tumble or Prime. Next time, deprime, reprime, load. No more Boxed Primers.

Dan

[dgod]

I have the RCBS Swagger, it works great, just don't forget to take the handle all the way down, and then all the way up, to eject.

[blarby]

#3 phillips.

Twist, twist, twist, done.

[dgod]

I have the RCBS Swagger, comes with Large and Small parts, works great, the results are not readily apparent, but will become obvious when you prime them.

Dan

[howlnmad]

With a cpuntersink bit chucked up in my drillpress. No muss, no fuss.