Most accurate rimfire


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alman
November 28, 2012, 12:29 PM
What does everybody think ? $300.00 budget for a rimfire rifle (just the rifle) . What is the most accurate size rimfire cartridge(.22 , 22mag , 17 hmr etc..) for 100 yd bench shooting ?

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chad1043
November 28, 2012, 12:38 PM
I'm gonna vote Savage in 17 HMR... I don't own an 17, I do own a 22 mag. But for bench shooting I think the 17 would do better.

Picher
November 28, 2012, 12:42 PM
I agree with Alman that the 17 HMR is the most accurate at 100 yards and that the Savage is a very accurate rifle.

However, if you intend to compete, be sure that the caliber qualifies. Many matches are for only .22 LR.

alman
November 28, 2012, 12:48 PM
I had a Savage 93G in 22 mag , loved it & the price it came for . It was the most accurate rimfire I have had personal experience with . I never shot a 17 . I agree , you cant go wrong with an accutrigger .

josiewales
November 28, 2012, 12:48 PM
Take a look at Henry h001 series lever action. Very accurate gun.
I own one in .22 and am very pleased with it.

alman
November 28, 2012, 12:49 PM
Not competition , just want a really accurate fun gun .

greyling22
November 28, 2012, 12:59 PM
I've never shot the .17's or the 22mag, but with some decent match ammo, 22lr has potential.

I shot a 10 shot 1" group at 100yds with a 22lr cz452 using wolf mt target ammo last time I was out. put 5 rounds into a ragged hole at 50. federal auto match will put 10 inside 1" at 50. And it has nice lines and a fabulous trigger with just a little work. ($20 yodave kit and done) And I am not a great shot.

CraigC
November 28, 2012, 01:16 PM
At 50yds a good .22LR will give a good .17 a run for the money. At 100yds, the .17 will beat it every time. The .22LR's accuracy just begins to unravel at around 75yds. A half-MOA at 50yds rifle quickly becomes a 3/4-1MOA rifle at 100yds. `Tis the nature of the beast. However, most view the .17HMR as strictly a field round. It is highly accurate but I really don't see the point in buying one for paper punching only. Frankly, it's quite boring. The .22LR is much more of a challenge and offers a lot more opportunities for tuning, trying different loads and experimentation. Shooting half MOA with a .17 is no big deal. Shooting MOA with a .22LR is an accomplishment.

3twelves
November 28, 2012, 02:40 PM
.17 can be very accurate.

BCRider
November 28, 2012, 03:09 PM
.17 is also a LOT more expensive than .22LR. So for a budget minded solution I'd be looking at the Savage in .22LR as well. If they are primarily for target shooting the paper won't care.

We're using the single shot peep sight Savages in my club's Jr .22 program. I'm amazed at how good these rifles can be. Price aside they are a good shooter. And when you toss in the fact that they are generally priced less than the equivalent competition you've got a budget winner in my books.

If the lowly .22LR is more affected by wind and other conditions then what of it? It becomes good practice for reading and compensating for wind and in general becoming a better shooter.

heavydluxe
November 28, 2012, 03:14 PM
For bench shooting, trying to stack round right on top of one another - .17HMR.

FWIW, though, my range has bolt-action, .22LR Savages (MkIIFVTs). While they aren't *as* accurate out to 100yrds, the difference if you're using a fast .22lr round might not be substantial enough to justify the difference in cost.

Your call, but just sayin'. This past weekend my son was breaking clays with his Marlin .22lr at 100yrds. I'm sure he missed some he 'should' have hit because of the round's performance, but it was plenty fun (and cheap!).

But, if your application is *strict* accuracy, buy the .17HMR and feel no remorse. :)

Good luck with the new tool, either way.

firesky101
November 28, 2012, 05:04 PM
http://www.anschuetz-sport.com/

There ya go, I have an anschutz pistol that is more accurate than any rifle I have ever shot. From a rest it will group five in under a half inch at 100yds. They make rifles too, I just can't afford any of the super accurate ones.

mastiffhound
November 28, 2012, 05:16 PM
Most accurate rimfire I have shot is my 50-some year old stevens buckmark in .22lr. At 50 yards I can put 5 rounds of blazer .22lr in under a penny. I have shot so good with it that I actually started shooting pennies for fun. The barrel is heavier than most barrels on newer .22's. Not bad for a $60 rifle. I am sure I could do under an inch at 100 yards. Look at some older rimfires, they will surprise you. They are made like everything else from many years ago, with pride and longevity in mind.

DM~
November 28, 2012, 06:42 PM
When you look at the absolute BEST accuracy in a rimfire bench rest competiton, 22LR is the most accurate, even at 100 yards.

When you look at what "production" rimfire rifle that wins more matches than any other, it's easily the Anschutz!

The most accurate rimfire "for the least money spent" is Savage... Then you start working on it to make it the most accurate it can be!

DM

MCgunner
November 28, 2012, 07:01 PM
My 51 year old Remington 512 shoots 1.5" at 100 yards with federal bulk. It gets SCARY accurate with RWS Target, but I've never shot the stuff at 100 yards. Time of flight probably best measured with a calender. It will shoot one hole at 25 yards and nearly so at 50.

I've only shot Winchester dynapoint and CCI maximag in my 597 magnum, but with those, it shoots 1.5" at 100 yards. That's plenty good 'nuf for anything I'm gonna do with it.

CraigC
November 28, 2012, 07:04 PM
When you look at the absolute BEST accuracy in a rimfire bench rest competiton, 22LR is the most accurate, even at 100 yards.
I've never seen or heard of a .22LR that costs $400 and shoots half-MOA at 100yds. Some even better.

Nobody said anything about high level benchrest competition or Anschutz rifles.

Mick_W
November 28, 2012, 07:07 PM
Walmart stocks a bull barrel marlin for $200 in .17hmr. No sights on it though.

pseudonymity
November 28, 2012, 07:35 PM
I've never seen or heard of a .22LR that costs $400 and shoots half-MOA at 100yds. Some even better.

Nobody said anything about high level benchrest competition or Anschutz rifles.

.5 MOA at 100yds for 22LR is pretty impressive, but I can regularly get .8-1.2 MOA 5 shot groups out of my Savage. That is a $200 used rifle, with a no-name bipod in front, a sock filled with cat litter in the rear, a $25 used eBay scope and CCI SV ammo ($25/brick at Dicks sporting goods). I have no idea if it would do .5MOA, but I am pretty sure that with a decent quality front and rear rest and better ammo it could do better than the .8 MOA it does now.

No $300 rifle is going to be competitive against better rifles in benchrest, but the one advantage of 22LR is that you can buy cheap ammo when you want to just plink, and better ammo when you want to get more serious. Your ammo selection with .17 is much more limited.

CraigC
November 28, 2012, 08:01 PM
A lot of BS gets thrown around when the discussion is how accurately a .22LR shoots at 100yds. For a bit of perspective and note the rifle used.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/22lr-rimfire-ammo-comparison-test/

mainecoon
November 28, 2012, 08:05 PM
Also keep in mind cleaning the 17HMR is a pain compared to the 22.

Kachok
November 28, 2012, 08:07 PM
If I were to bet on any rimfire it would have to be the Savage 17HMR with 17gr TNT HPs mine shot bug holes over and over and over again. One hole groups is awful small with a .17 cal! I miss that gun :(

bamajoey
November 28, 2012, 08:18 PM
"Firesky101 said,
There ya go, I have an anschutz pistol that is more accurate than any rifle I have ever shot. From a rest it will group five in under a half inch at 100yds They make rifles too, I just can't afford any of the super accurate ones."

Is that 22lr? If it is I would really like to see your setup.:)

firesky101
November 28, 2012, 11:01 PM
Yeah it is a .22lr scary accurate. I will try to get some pictures up, but it resides in my dads safe for the moment. I live in the city, and he has a bit of varmint problems and really likes the handiness of the pistol. Best group I have ever done without the home made ransom rest was around 1.2" at 100yds just shooting off bags.

ColtPythonElite
November 28, 2012, 11:15 PM
I would get a CZ 452 Training rifle in .22lr while they are still available new...They won't hold a candle to some of the claims made in this thread. However, they will easily shoot well under 1" ten shot groups at 50 yards using bulk ammo and will usually shoot groups about half that size using better target ammo.

alman
November 28, 2012, 11:34 PM
Lots of good input & opinions here . I would agree a Savage 17HMR is an option . Anything CZ would also work although they can get pricier than $300in a hurry . I own 3 rimfires currently . Marlin/Glenfield 60 for semi auto fun & not to shabby as far as accuracy goes . Marlin 883SS in 22mag , also accurate to a point & a Marlin XT22VR . Not sure im going to achieve the accuracy Id like with the XT but I'm not done "tweeking" it . Just thought I'd get some opinions . Would really like a rimfire that will outshoot me . I think if I shop smart I can get where I'd like within my budget .
AL

cfullgraf
November 28, 2012, 11:45 PM
alman,

If you live near one of the CMP stores, go look at the "rusty" Kimber 82G's. Surplus, unused, target 22 RF rifles for $425. Granted a bit higher than your budget.

Most of the "rusty" Kimbers have virtually no rust and what they have cleans up nicely. But I would not trust the luck of the draw these days. You really need to inspect the rifle first.

The "rust" on mine was more like some kind of red dust.

Mine came with target sights and a scope could be mounted without drilling and tapping.

murf
November 28, 2012, 11:47 PM
dried out grease can look like "red dust". hope you got lucky on that one, cfullgraf.

murf

alman
November 29, 2012, 12:00 AM
Chuck ,
Ill check it out .
Thanks ,
Al

Sako Shooter
November 29, 2012, 12:07 AM
I would get a CZ 452 Training rifle in .22lr while they are still available new...They won't hold a candle to some of the claims made in this thread. However, they will easily shoot well under 1" ten shot groups at 50 yards using bulk ammo and will usually shoot groups about half that size using better target ammo.
Yeah, that.

cfullgraf
November 29, 2012, 12:08 AM
dried out grease can look like "red dust". hope you got lucky on that one, cfullgraf.

murf

Mine cleaned up nicely, no "rust" after cleaning. It just had a couple of knife scratches in the stock as indicated in the description on the CMP sales site.

I did buy mine at the south CMP store.

One big problem with going to the CMP stores is it is very difficult to leave with only one rifle.

kingcheese
November 29, 2012, 12:42 AM
I use a 17, my friend use a 22mag, my setup is a mossberg 817 with a barska 4-16x40 on it, my friend uses a savage 93, 3-9x30 nikon prostaff, at a 100 yards my rifle shoots a tighter group, only because the five bullets i put through one hole makes a smaller hole then his five bullets through one hole


i recommended he get the 22mag, its a little more powerful, you get a wider variety of ammo, and it bucks the wind better, when the say a mouse farting can throw off a 17 shot, they ain't joking

single stack
November 29, 2012, 09:12 AM
Thank you CraigC for the published accuracy data.

Of course I have a Cooey single shot .22 that drives
Brads, not tacks at 100 yards.

Captcurt
November 29, 2012, 09:45 AM
Have to pick Savage if we stay under $300. If I got an extra $100 for Christmas I would go for a CZ 452. I have owned three and all of them shot as good as my 52 Winchester.

As for caliber I have to go with 22lr. When you compare ammo cost it is easy to see that you can shoot 2 or 3 times as many 22lr's as the others.

aka108
November 29, 2012, 10:18 AM
You want good accuracy at 100 yards then the 17HMR would be the best choice. They will shoot little bitty groups at that distance. I've been very impressed with the Marlin that I own. I really enjoy shooting 22 rf at 50 yards. The 22 long rifle at 50 is about as accurate as you can get and a lot less expensive than the 17. At 100 yards the accuracy of the 22 is way off from the 17. The 22 mag, I own one and don't care for it, is pretty accurate at 50 yards but goes seriously lacking in that category at 100 yds. I know I will catch some flack here but I thing the 22 mag is worthless.

DM~
November 29, 2012, 10:47 AM
I've never seen or heard of a .22LR that costs $400 and shoots half-MOA at 100yds. Some even better.

Nobody said anything about high level benchrest competition or Anschutz rifles.

And no one said i couldn't use those as a "benchmark" to compare to.

Knowing what is ALREADY working gives you something to compare to, the choises you are considering.

It always helps me when considering something new, it doesn't mean i have to buy the best, but i AT LEAST like to see what the best is like, and compare my choise to it. And, in this case, for a production gun, Anschutz is at the top.

DM

CraigC
November 29, 2012, 11:15 AM
Your post was misleading and irrelevant. Because the .17HMR and .22Mag are not used in benchrest competition. So how any banter about Anschutz rifles and $3000 benchrest guns is relevant to a discussion about which $300 rimfire to buy, I have no idea. If you read my link, you would see that it took a $3000 Swiss target rifle shooting expensive match ammo (much more expensive than .17's) to match the accuracy possible with a $350 Savage or CZ .17HMR.


When you look at the absolute BEST accuracy in a rimfire bench rest competition, 22LR is the most accurate, even at 100 yards.
How many benchrest competitions are shot with the .17's???

Ken451
November 29, 2012, 12:03 PM
If one wants to try both the 17HMR and the 22LR, the CZ-455 comes in a two barrel combo for both calibers :-)




-

pseudonymity
November 29, 2012, 07:20 PM
Lots of discussion about .17 vs .22lr here, but for a $300 rifle I think it could end up a toss up, but it depends on the particular rifle.

.17HRM - all rifles and ammo in this combo are likely to be pretty accurate, but selections of both rifles and ammo are a bit limited

.22LR - rifles in the $300 range may be anything from mediocre to outstanding with respect to accuracy. The problem is that two rifles of the same brand and model may not shoot the same, it is a bit of luck at that price, even with match ammo. One thing is usually true though - almost all .22LR rifles shoot better with better quality ammo.

All $1K+ .22LR rifles shoot well, but some $300 .22LRs come surprisingly close, but you do not know if the one you buy is a shooter until you get some time to run different brands of ammo through it.

DM~
November 29, 2012, 10:31 PM
How many benchrest competitions are shot with the .17's???

And that's my point! They shoot what is most accurate!

Do i really have to "splain" everything to you?? :banghead:

OK, have at it, i'm done splaining here... lol

DM

CraigC
November 30, 2012, 01:34 AM
And that's my point! They shoot what is most accurate!
Let's see, smart guy, if a $350 Savage shoots half MOA at 100yds and it takes a $3000 custom target rifle to shoot that well in a .22LR, what do you think that means??? The .22LR does NOT shoot more accurately than the .17 at 100yds and it is silly beyond words to believe so. They don't shoot .17's in benchrest because it would be unfair for them to compete against .22LR's. Not the other way around.

DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN EVERYTHING TO YOU??? HAVE YOU EVER SHOT THE .22LR AT 100YDS???

Pete D.
November 30, 2012, 08:15 AM
We are talking about two related but different things here. Accuracy of $300 rim fire rifles and accuracy of two types of rim fire ammo, the .17 and the .22.
Easy to get sidetracked since the efectiveness of each one is dependent on the choice of the other.
.5 MOA at 100yds for 22LR is pretty impressive
Yes, it is....it is for any gun and ammo combo.
A few years ago, at a small bore prone match in PA, I had the privilege of shooting next to, and scoring the targets of, a young man who was shooting for the US Naval Academy. It was a 2400 match.....a game of Xs. One of his targets, shot with aperture sights, no scope, prone, no bench, was a ten shot group a half inch in diameter. Literally one ragged hole.
He is not the only shooter who can do this.

Pete

Cee Zee
November 30, 2012, 05:32 PM
When you look at what "production" rimfire rifle that wins more matches than any other, it's easily the Anschutz!

Actually for true bench rest shooting you rarely see an Anschutz win. People use 40X's, Hall's, Turbo's, Suhl's, and a few other brands in bench rest shooting. If you check out the equipment lists for the ARA nationals you are lucky to see more than 2 Anschutz actions in the top 100.

There are plenty of things an Anschutz can do if you get the right one. For local matches they are likely to be right at the top of the field. But on a national level look for something else.

BTW they are certainly far more than the OP's listed $300. We're talking about 5 times that much for a really good one. For $300 get a Savage in whatever caliber you decide on. CZ's can't be bought in that price range either unless you get really, really lucky and find some new old stock somewhere. I knew where to find some about 2 years ago but they are long gone now. I could have bought a 452 for under $300 back then. Now they're at least $400. And my CZ won't shoot as accurate as my Savage.

Mr. T
November 30, 2012, 06:34 PM
I have had excellent results with a Remington 597 in .22 LR. I almost went with the .22 Win Mag and I'm glad I didn't because they ended up have problems with that caliber in that model. The .22 LR has been great. I took it to a competition at the Rod and Gun club I belong to and for kicks took it up against rifles costing $3,000 to $5,000. Some of the expensive guns were shooting 18 to 20 out of 20; my gun cost $169 and came with a fixed power scope. I ended up shooting 17 to 19 out of 20 with my little Remington. I have to swear by that gun! We were shooting metal silouettes at ranges of 25, 50, 75, and 100 yards, with 5 targets at each different range.

Cee Zee
November 30, 2012, 08:48 PM
The difference in accuracy between rifles is usually not that great Mr. T. My Marlin 60 has shot very tight groups at 100 yards. It doesn't do that every time but it does it often. But it is NOT as accurate as my Savage MkIIBTV or my CZ 453. The difference is in the consistency. It's true that a lot of semi-auto rimfires will shoot tight groups. But if we talk about "most accurate" then we have to talk about the bolt action rifles because they will shoot the best groups time after time even though it's only a slight improvement over other rifles. It takes a decent shooter to get the accuracy out of a gun too. 9 times out of 10 the difference between two people shooting is the result of the people making mistakes and not the rifles having problems.

hillbillyprick
November 30, 2012, 09:01 PM
Personaly,, I would choose ruger, marlin, anshutz, remington.... but I would never trust another savage,,, had a savage bolt pistol, in .223,,,, brand new from the box, and had nothing but problems,,, mostly a bad trigger mech. almost shot my dad with out even touching the trigger,,, a few times it would fire as soon as the bolt closed. I took it back to the gun smith, whom I purchased the gun from, he tested it, and determaned the trigger mechanism was faulty, but after my experiance I chose a different option,,, I wound up with a taurus 686 in .357, with a 6in. barrel, boss compensated...... except for the grips, it was the best pistol I've ever owned.

chad1043
November 30, 2012, 09:08 PM
^^^ That is one of the first bad things I have ever read about Savage. Never had much knowledge about their pistols. Sorry to hear about your bad luck.

alman
November 30, 2012, 09:37 PM
Seems like I have it narrowed down to a Savage MkII heavy barrel in one of many configurations available . I also concur with CAPCURT , if Santa drops a couple extra bucks in the kitty I would go with one of the CZ offerings . As I stated earlier in the thread I have 3 rimfire as is & am happy with all of them . .17 HMR seems attractive untill you get to the part where ammo is just as expensive as feeding an AR . The 883SS in .22HMR fills that niche already . I'm of the opinion the more rimfires the better . Always fun to buy , tune , restore , shoot & trade it for the next one . Some become fixtures that are "untouchable" . I know for some reason I have trouble with the Marlins , when I get my hands on a nice specimen I tend to keep them .
Again , thanks for all the input ,
Al

mr.t7024
November 30, 2012, 10:05 PM
I can not add anything to what has been said. The advice given is excellent.:) Cliff

Ar180shooter
December 1, 2012, 01:48 AM
Well, I'll throw in my $.02. If you don't already have an accurate .22lr bolt action, definitely get one before you get a .17 HMR. If only for ammo that costs 1/4 that of .17. You'll get way more trigger time on the .22 per dollar than the .17, and spending around $8/box on .22lr (around the same as a regular box of .17) will get you some nice match ammo that will shoot well under an inch at 100 with a Savage rimfire. With my Savage Mark II BTVS, I can consistently get 3/4" 100 yard groups with Eley Club ammunition.

CraigC
December 1, 2012, 01:59 AM
...I would never trust another savage,,, had a savage bolt pistol, in .223,,,, brand new from the box, and had nothing but problems...
One has to understand than one guy with one problem gun is statistically insignificant. Experiences folks have with Savage and their rimfire boltguns in particular, is nothing less than stellar for the dollars spent. I have two and would not hesitate in the least to buy another. I've had three dozen Rugers of various types over the years and only one that had to be sent back. Should I judge all Rugers by that one problem gun? No.

ttheel
December 1, 2012, 02:07 PM
I dont know which gun is the "most" accurate out there. I can tell you that my CZ 452 American is very accurate. It groups exceptionally . One day on my back porch I cut an inch thick tree sapling down with it at about 40 yards. It took a few shots but very few. I purchased the gun a few years ago after researching for weeks. I think I paid like $379 for it.

xfyrfiter
December 1, 2012, 03:46 PM
I have a CZ 13 , 2 Ruger 10/22s , Marlin bolt action, all are capable of one hole 25 round groups at 25 yds but all open up a bit at 50 and a bit more at 100 but still moa or less dependant on ammo and wind. So in essence all are very good or better accuracy wise. People expect so much out of so little. Most high dollar cf rifles are only guaranteed 1moa with match grade $2/round ammo.The 17 is very good but not very good at 100 in the wind and not allowed in most matches.

Halal Pork
December 1, 2012, 07:14 PM
If one wants to try both the 17HMR and the 22LR, the CZ-455 comes in a two barrel combo for both calibers :-)




-
I almost bought one of these combos before I reviewed the barrel swap procedure and realized I'd rather just leave a 455 set up for one caliber. Took the wind out of my sails.

CB900F
December 1, 2012, 08:44 PM
Alman;

If it simply doesn't have to be a new gun, I'm sure you can find a used CZ in your budget range. I do a lot of rimfire shooting at extended ranges, thousands & thousands of rounds. At one time I owned a Savage 93, now I don't. However, I currently have the use of several CZ's.

900F

WALKERs210
December 1, 2012, 09:01 PM
Many fine choices in .17 and .22 cal. One I have is a Marlin .17 M2 caliber that will shoot almost perfect dead shot each time. It is me that has the problem just getting old and between eyes and shaking hands just happy to hit the target. I just picked up a NIB Marlin XT Series .17HMR that I am expecting excellent results from, comes drilled and rail mounted, along with a very nicely finished BULL barrel, one 4rd mag and one 7rd mag. Selling point for me is the adjustable trigger, I have set mine at 3lbs and the trigger has not noticeable creep, it is smooth and crisp. As I said I am expecting better results shooting from my bench rest. Price on it was $249.-- out the door, the gun dealer I bought it from said Wally World might have them cheaper but that was not the issue, if I have any problem with it I can go back to the dealer rather than dealing with all the red tape and crap from Wally World.

Bolshevik Muppet
December 1, 2012, 09:04 PM
Go pick up a 10/22. With a few minor modifications that have nothing to do with the action, you can have it outshooting a Volquartsen and your competitors shooting $2K+ rigs scratching their heads.

Roadking Rider
December 1, 2012, 09:10 PM
I have a Ruger 10/22 and a 1952 Marlin bolt action DL81. If I was to buy another 22 in the $300 price range it would be the Henry H001. Those little lever actions are beautiful, and the smoothness of there action is second to none.

WALKERs210
December 1, 2012, 09:58 PM
Henry H001
Don't know how I forgot to mention the Henry, especially since I have one sitting in gun cabinet behind me.

CraigC
December 1, 2012, 10:52 PM
With a few minor modifications that have nothing to do with the action, you can have it outshooting a Volquartsen and your competitors shooting $2K+ rigs scratching their heads.
I'm a big proponent of the 10/22 but that's more than a bit of a stretch.

alman
December 1, 2012, 11:06 PM
CB ,
I would agree a used CZ 452 , 455 or even a trainer would be at the top of my list . Unfortunatly I see no used CZs in my neck of the woods and a gunbroker purchases sight unseen seems risky to me .
Walker ,
I have a new XT22VR heavy barrel getting ready to live in a Boyds RVT stock . Im not sure it will be a tack driver but it sure is pretty . Did I mention I have a soft spot for marlins ? :D

Rider , Walker & others that mentioned the Henry1001 ,
Great , fun little gun but not for this application .

For those who mentioned the 10/22 ,
Fun little .22s & great platform to "tinker" with . However its been my experience a Marlin 60 will out shoot a 10/22 right out of the box . Money must be spent on the already pricier Ruger just to keep up with 60 .
Anshutz ?
I wish .
Love this thread & everybodys opinions . Could go on forever on this subject because just about everybody owns a least one rimfire rifle .
Al

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