7x57 mauser vs 243 for son


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gadawg31
November 29, 2012, 11:07 AM
Hello everyone,
I have a question about a potential gun purchase. A friend of mine has a old military 7mm mauser (7x57mm) and is getting rid of it. He states it would be great of my son to use for hunting. (My son is 10, so trying to keep the recoil down). He also has a bolt action 243 rifle and I am torn between the two. If the recoil is comparible to the 243, me personally would rather get the mauser, just because he would have some military history as well as a good hunting rifle. What does everyone think about the two rifles? Which one would you recommend for my kid? Thanks.

JD

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joed
November 29, 2012, 11:13 AM
Go with the .243 and don't look back. For one it has less recoil and is a modern firearm. The military mauser would make a better tomato stake in my opinion.

helotaxi
November 29, 2012, 11:14 AM
The 7mm will have more recoil but neither should be that bad. 7x57 ammo isn't nearly as common as .243 so that might be worth considering if you don't reload or have a source of 7x57 ammo.

CraigC
November 29, 2012, 11:22 AM
IMHO, a ten year old should be hunting rabbits and squirrels.

Bwana John
November 29, 2012, 11:28 AM
7mm x 57mm Mauser is one of the finest hunting cartridges available.

However, if the rifle does not mount a modern optic, or have have a good trigger, or a comfortable stock which fits you will be handicapping your boy.

And, please don't "Bubba" a historic military rifle. :cuss:

Also, many 7mm Mauser rifles are M-93/95, if you wish to use full house reloads a M-98 is preferable.

Most 7mm Mauser ammo available in the US is downloaded because of it being chambered is older rifles like the Remington Rolling Block.

I suggest a modern rifle like a M-700, M-70, or M-77 chambered for 7mm Mauser :cool:

shaggy430
November 29, 2012, 11:33 AM
IMHO, a ten year old should be hunting rabbits and squirrels.

I killed my first deer when I was 9, with a .243. Killed 2 more when I was 10. A child's maturity is the deciding factor, not age.

morcey2
November 29, 2012, 11:34 AM
Either one would work, depending on the area and type of hunting.

Caveat: Check the bore on both of them. The mauser could have anything from a pristine, never-been-fired bore to a sewer pipe. Military mausers also generally have very long throats and this can cause some accuracy issues with off the shelf ammunition. It also depends on the configuration of the mauser. If it's still in full military dress, it will probably be too heavy for a 10-year-old, and the sights will need some work to get it hitting at POA for useful hunting distances. If it has a scope mounted or has aftermarket sights, that would definitely be better.

The 7x57 is my favorite all around cartridge at the moment so I'm somewhat biased, but I would pick the 243, unless the condition of the mauser is significantly better than the 243. If he'll let you shoot them both to decide, that would be even better.

Matt

Owen Sparks
November 29, 2012, 11:34 AM
Go with the lighter of the two. Also, fit is important. Be sure that the stock is not too long.

j1
November 29, 2012, 11:37 AM
Easy, get the 243 for him and the 7 mm for you. After shooting it you and he will soon know how he likes the 7 mm.:)

MarshallDodge
November 29, 2012, 11:38 AM
.243 for all the reasons listed.

RPRNY
November 29, 2012, 11:56 AM
Go with the lighter of the two. Also, fit is important. Be sure that the stock is not too long.

Wisdom.

Boxhead
November 29, 2012, 11:57 AM
What are you assuming the 243 is?

viking499
November 29, 2012, 11:59 AM
Between the 2, I would go 243.

But you could substitute the 7x57 with a 7mm-08. Basically the short action version of a 7x57.

Arkansas Paul
November 29, 2012, 12:01 PM
The military mauser would make a better tomato stake in my opinion.

This group was shot with a military Mauser and my handloads. And it's the original military barrel too. Never saw a tomato stake do that.

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac223/prgann/1019111325.jpg

That being said, I agree with the .243 choice in your instance. It's prolly ready to go, where you would have to have the Mauser drilled and tapped, the bolt turned down, and likely a different stock to be comfortable for a 10 year old. I LOVE Mausers, but they are generally project guns that require time and effort, not to mention a few dollars if you can't do the work yourself.

gadawg31
November 29, 2012, 12:18 PM
WOW, thanks for all the great inputs. I really like your idea j1. 243 for him and mauser for me. I think the boss lady will really go for that. LOL! After consideration and all your inputs, I think the 243 is the better choice. As for your comment "CraigC", it doesn't even warrant a negative response. My 10yr old son has been shooting since he was 5 and can ring the 6" bell at 200yds with my dads M1 garand and that is with open sites. Thanks guys for all the input. I may make this a xmas present. I'll try and remember to post some pics of the rifle. Take care and Happy Shooting.

JD

RPRNY
November 29, 2012, 12:25 PM
FWIW, I don't think CraigC's comment was offered in a spirit of negativity or to denigrate the boy's shooting abilities.

The best was to learn to hunt is to start on squirrels and rabbits. They're small, so shot precision is emphasized. They are very mobile, so quick set up and sighting is important. And, generally speaking, he can shoot a ton of squirrels whereas he may only get one deer per season. When he's nailed 20 squirrels and 10 rabbits, he'll be less prone to buck fever and better prepared to drop a dream buck with his awesome new .243 rifle.

gadawg31
November 29, 2012, 12:28 PM
RPRNY, I can see that view. However; I think a blanket statement without knowledge of the situation would tend to make anyone's comment sound offensive. I will definately not lose any sleep over this, and that is why I gave a little of my sons shooting background. Take care.

JD

courtgreene
November 29, 2012, 12:32 PM
you could just let him use the garand if he's already good with it.

CraigC
November 29, 2012, 12:38 PM
I don't know why everybody is so quick to get offended.


FWIW, I don't think CraigC's comment was offered in a spirit of negativity or to denigrate the boy's shooting abilities.

The best was to learn to hunt is to start on squirrels and rabbits. They're small, so shot precision is emphasized. They are very mobile, so quick set up and sighting is important. And, generally speaking, he can shoot a ton of squirrels whereas he may only get one deer per season. When he's nailed 20 squirrels and 10 rabbits, he'll be less prone to buck fever and better prepared to drop a dream buck with his awesome new .243 rifle.
Exactly! There is a natural progression in everything. It has nothing to do with machismo or your son's maturity as a young man and everything to do with learning the craft. He'll learn more in one afternoon of squirrel hunting than he will a season of deer hunting.

gadawg31
November 29, 2012, 02:54 PM
CraigC, Never once said I was offended. Those were assumptions made, based on what I said. Anywho, my point was don't make blanket statements unless you know that someone has zero hunting experience. Hense, my statement of ...shooting since he was five... I guess for some, I should have stated shooting and hunting, but neither here nor there, he is very much ready for the next level. Thanks for the advise/opinion and no hard feelings. JD

wlewisiii
November 29, 2012, 03:50 PM
Having read the thread, I'd advise you to get the Mauser. Two things though - I think the 7x57 is probably the best hunting round ever made. If it's a 98 action and can be loaded appropriately, it's wonderful for any North American Hunting. Two, I have utterly no problem with modifying a rifle. If it needs a new stock, put it in one. If it needs a better trigger, Timney makes decent one inexpensivily. Add an SK mount if you don't want to drill and tap. If you're worried that you're depriving the world of yet another of 1/2 a billion mausers, save the old parts in your safe and you can go back to the original someday if you wish.

In the meantime, your son can have a good hunting rifle and that's worth more in the real world. IMHO & all that.

Float Pilot
November 29, 2012, 06:06 PM
When I was 12 or so, my first center-fire rifle was a M-98 chambered for 7x57mm Mauser.

BUT, it was full military and was not exactly a tack driver since the chamber was oversized. I had to obtain other rifles to learn proper long range marksmanship. Eventually the M-98 was re-built around the action as a taregt rifle....It became a tack-driver with a Douglas Barrel, and I still own it 43 years later.

Where do you live and what type of game is the primary critter?

R.W.Dale
November 29, 2012, 06:17 PM
IMHO, a ten year old should be hunting rabbits and squirrels.

As I recall your similar commentary was deleted when offered unsolicited in my thread about 7-08 loads for my son.

Suggestions about how others should raise their children are always rude no matter what the spirit they're offered in.


Back to the op. This is more a question of commercial hunting rifle vs milsurp. For most 10yo's a Mauser will be to long and cumbersome for them to use effectively




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

Abel
November 29, 2012, 07:28 PM
A 7x57 is perfect, but I would rather own one in a modern rifle. If the 243 is the modern rifle, go that route.

I killed my first deer when I was ten. It is a terrific memory that I recall as often as once a week, at least.

ridgerunner1965
November 29, 2012, 07:49 PM
as much as I like the 7mm id go with the 243 also.my son killed his first several deer with a 243 starting at about age 8.i also have killed maybe 25 deer with same gun.never found it lacking.he switched to his gpas browning bbr 06 when he was about 11 or 12.he was a tall big kid for his age and very determined to shoot it well and always has.

303tom
November 29, 2012, 08:23 PM
Go for the .243 Winchester.............

JShirley
November 29, 2012, 08:34 PM
The 7x57mm is a terrific cartridge without a lot of recoil. If the kid can handle an '06, he can handle the '06's smaller, weaker father. However, it's true that the Mauser won't have good sights unless it's already been modified.

At 10, I'd been hunting small game for at least 4 years, and I used a H&R 20 gauge that kicked worse than any .243 ever made. :rolleyes: Any .243 would have been a welcome relief to my shoulder, and I was absolutely safe. Personally, I think a 7.62x39mm in a real hunting rifle, not an AK pattern, would be an even better choice, but if he can hit a paper-plate sized target at 200 yards with an M1, I'd just borrow that, if that's an option.

John

tahoe2
November 29, 2012, 09:59 PM
My boy, who is now 15 yrs and 140 lbs, went from a 22lr to a model 1893 Spanish carbine in 7x57 @ 12 yrs old and 100 lbs.
I must confess that I handloaded his ammo to 30-30 class, 160 grn bullets @ 2400 fps.
The stock was bubba'd when we got it, and fit him very well.
The military sights are actually very decent for a military rifle, much better than my German 98.
He still has the rifle (and loves it), but now it wears a Boyd's Laminate sporter stock and a Bold trigger,
he can manage 2"-3" @ 100 yds (young eyes) from a kneeling or seated shooting position, which is plenty good around here.
Most shots here are less than a hundred yards.
I do load full power loads now (for an old mauser @ 44,000 cup) 160grn @ 2700fps and he shoots them just fine,
I find his rifle a pure joy to shoot, and he doesn't want it scoped,
we also have a Savage Model 99 in .300 Savage with a scope if he needs a scoped rifle.

Trent
November 29, 2012, 11:43 PM
7mm for a 10 year old might be a bit harsh. Toss a rubber butt pad on there if his arms are long enough. Get some downloaded ammo (10% under max) to start him out so he don't develop any bad "flinch" habits early. :)

I've been working my boy up through calibers for the last 5 years, he's 15 now and can handle a 12 gauge with 00 buck and a 45 ACP semiauto handgun comfortably.

lefteyedom
November 30, 2012, 12:19 AM
Mauser!!

I would go for the 7X57 Mauser for a few reasons.

If it is a "bubbed" military rifle, the process of refinishing, and upgrading it, is next to restoring an old car the greatest father son activity ever. (ok maybe building a boat).

When a young person puts time in to a project they naturally developed a sense of pride in both the project and themselves. A rifle that a young person has pride in will be treated better and safer than one that is simply given to them.

That rifle will become his heirloom. No one pawns the rifle that they built with their father and shot their first deer with. Your grand kids could very well hold that rifle and hear stores about sanding the stock and rubbing a gallon of oil into the stock.

The 7X57 Mauser really is about a perfect caliber, anything you have ever read about a 7-08 applies to the 7X57. 139 grain bullet going 2600 fps will cleanly kill any deer and yes elk. The recoil in a properly fitted rifle is very manageable.

He is ten now, by spring he will be 10 1/2 or 11, perfect age to start learn how to shoot a deer rifle. Till then a good 22 rifle is the perfect tool to learn the basic skills and safety with.


For the record I am currently building a 7X57 on an old "bubba-ed" 98 Mauser it will have a 20" barrel and a 2X7 scope on it.

When I was 10 years old and top the scales at 135lbs and 5 foot. My after school walking in the Mississippi woods was, Savage 311, 12 gauge double barrel that I had refinished the stock under the watchful eye of my old man. (for the record I do not suggest that double barrel 12 with 30" barrels as an ideal weapon for a 10 year old)

CraigC
November 30, 2012, 01:31 AM
Suggestions about how others should raise their children are always rude no matter what the spirit they're offered in.
Relax, I'm not telling you or anybody else how to raise their children. Nor did I spit on your dog or say anything bad about your momma. Personally, I don't think children should be hunting big game but you and everybody else is fully free to disregard my comments. Doesn't have a damn thing to do with how your raise your children, so stop trying so hard to be offended. It has to do with the natural progression of things. Same reason you don't hand a 10yr old a full bore .500S&W or teach a 15yr old to drive in a Corvette. Lots of folks think differently and that is fine. You are obviously free to do as you wish with your own children. It was only a suggestion and you are welcome to ignore it.

Kachok
November 30, 2012, 03:23 AM
The 7x57 is the better deer cartrage without a doubt, but a 243 is a grade A deer thumper if you are very mindful of shot angles and distance. I started deer hunting with a 243 as a child, but now I would much rather have a good 7x57.

Andrew Leigh
November 30, 2012, 05:34 AM
I would go for a 7X57, get some reloading gear and develop loads for your son, as he gets bigger the loads can increase and he can grow into the full potential of the rifle.

Bought a rifle for the grandbuddies recently but was not faced with a choice of two, I did however opt for the 6.5X55mm Swede which they could grow into. I like the classic calibres.

meanmrmustard
November 30, 2012, 06:53 AM
He'll learn more in one afternoon of squirrel hunting than he will a season of deer hunting.
Subjective. This is not Dr. Phil, but kinda glad my dad was MY DAD.

OP: My boys use .223 for deer, and they're 8 and 6. .243 or 7/08 sounds bout right.

bannockburn
November 30, 2012, 08:08 AM
I would probably also go with the .243; just seems like a good fit for 10 year old. I always kind of felt that the "natural" order of things, as far as rifle calibers go, would be .22LR, .223, .243, and then something like a .30-06 or .308 (or larger), for whatever kind of hunting you might want to do later on.

TexasPatriot.308
November 30, 2012, 08:21 AM
the old reliable 7mm Mauser can do just about anything in North America and can be loaded for little recoil and he can grow into it, customize it etc. as for the comment about a 10 year old hunting, I grew up hunting out in the oilfields of my area, started with a .22, killed my first deer at 7 with a Model 94 30-30. at 59 years young, still hunting, and had a 6 year old grandchild in the stand with us this past weeekend. shooting and hunting will be his choice to make.

gadawg31
November 30, 2012, 09:01 AM
Great info and advise ya'll. I picked up the mauser anyway, but may take some or your advise and handload some progressive rounds. This will test the waters and see what he likes. I found a pretty good deal on the mossberg 100ATR, for around $269.00 and my sons papa has let me borrow his 7mm08. I am not sold on the 7mm08, but I may be able to load some rounds for him to shoot. The jury is still out on that one. Either way, I think I have a few options now and I have a ton of info/advise to digest fron the forum. That is why I love coming in here. Take care.

JD

sansone
November 30, 2012, 09:02 AM
your son will be much happier shooting the .243

T.R.
November 30, 2012, 09:26 AM
My Grandad started me out with a Winchester 30-30 at age 13. I toppled several deer with this old timer. Recoil is noticeable but not painful at all. Its a very good rifle cartridge for distances of approx 150 yards or less with common factory ammo.

Dad bought a Remington .243 back in 1968 for my brother and me to share because we needed longer reach for antelope hunting. We lived near Powell, Wyoming at the time. This rifle is still in the family. It has toppled several dozen 'lopes and mulies. Recoil is a little less than 30-30 in my opinion but still noticeable.

If it were me, I'd pass on the 7mm military rifle because they tend to be heavy and have awkward safeties. Jusy my2 cents.

Good hunting to you.

TR

jimmyraythomason
November 30, 2012, 11:10 AM
your son will be much happier shooting the .243 I doubt that. Like most boys(and some girls)he will be thrilled with ANY gun you get him.

MachIVshooter
November 30, 2012, 12:00 PM
What is the intended game? The 7x57 has an edge for larger animals.

All else being equal, I'd definitely go with the 7x57. But it sounds like the packages are very different, so this must be considered. While I'd prefer the 7x57 cartridge over the .243 every day and twice on Sunday, if the 7mm is an old bubba'd military rifle and the .243 is a modern sporter, the .243 may be a better choice for your boy.

In short, I'd say the rifles themselves are the bigger deciding factor.

jimmyraythomason
November 30, 2012, 12:21 PM
if the 7mm is an old bubba'd military rifle He's my old bubba'ed military 7x57mm. It is a Chaing-Kai-Shek M-98 action(originally in 8x57)with a "new' unissued Latin contract 20" barrel. stock is a reworked Charles Daly from CDNN for $39. Scope is a Weaver Buck Commander 3.2.5x10x40 in Leupold rings and base. Trigger is a Bold Optima w/thumb safety set at 2lbs. Set-up is 1moa with both 139grn and 175grn factory ammo. It's size and heft is very much like an older Remington Model 7. Pictured also with a Stevens 200/Savage model 10 for comparison.

theotherwaldo
November 30, 2012, 02:26 PM
Both, of course. Let him shoot both and then make his own decision. Then you keep the other one.

RPRNY
November 30, 2012, 06:51 PM
Wait, jimmyray, are you the OP's friend and that's the 7mm in question? Or you're just showing off your sweet 7x57?

Because if the former, I think the OP should get the .243 and I should get the 7x57....;)

Looks like Bubba had his chit together when he built that one. :D

Trent
November 30, 2012, 06:58 PM
Whoa .. "bubbasmith dun gud", there.

jimmyraythomason
November 30, 2012, 07:07 PM
Thank you.I built that using a 1935 Chaing-kai-Shek receiver and a new unissued Latin contract barrel. Reworked bolt,added an FN bolt sleeve and Bold trigger set at 2 lbs. Reworked a Charles Daly synthetic stock(fully bedded with acra-glass). Brownell's hot bluing. Scope is a Weaver Buck Commander 3.2.5X10X40. The Savage beside it was converted from a .223 Remington to first .243 win and then to .308 win. In my personal experience,I find the 7x57 to be a much sweeter shooting round than the .243 win. Not that there is ANYTHING wrong with the little .243.

NCsmitty
November 30, 2012, 09:51 PM
Only one way to solve this is to get them both, as others have mentioned. They should provide a great learning experience for the young man and dad.


NCsmitty

berettashotgun
November 30, 2012, 09:57 PM
It is really hard to beat the 243 for smaller/younger shooters. Or older/fatter ones.......like myself.
I am looking for a 700 SS 243, but DICK'S doesn't have the one I want in stock.
I started my boys out on a 243 loaded with 75gr h.p. hornady; never had to chase anything. Something I learned about short barrels and the 243 - tends to have a lot of excessive crack with certain powders. Easy for a youngster to get a noise/blast flinch bad habit from those kind of rounds.
A 243 shoots pretty M.O.D. ( minute-of-deer) with a 4x scope out to 270yds.
What is not to like.

gadawg31
December 2, 2012, 08:34 PM
I'm going to get both. As several has suggested, can't go wrong with either one and we can both have a nice project to work on. A gunsmith friend of mine was able to get me a mossberg 100ATR at cost, so all in all I think I did pretty good. Again, thanks for all the info/advise and we will see how it works out next weekend. If anyone has any light 270 loads that would be willing to share, I'm all ears. I would like to try him out on my 270, once he is broken in on the 243, but several have advised lightening the load a bit. I can definately understand, but I think he would love my 270 and eventually he can take it over if he likes. Thanks.

JD

joneb
December 2, 2012, 11:44 PM
Another vote for the 6.5x55 Swede he can shoot it now and not grow out of it later.

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