Muzzle brake effectiveness.


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jerrard
November 30, 2012, 04:06 PM
I wish to buy a AR platform 308 20in barrel, probably Armalite or DPMS. I see many with and without muzzle breaks. Does a muzzle break really have much effectiveness on a 20in heavy barrel in 308.

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Revoliver
November 30, 2012, 04:54 PM
Yes and no. While I'm sure a muzzle brake on a 20" heavy barrel .308 does reduce felt recoil, it can also dramatically increase both felt and heard muzzle blast to both you and anyone around you.

I have a 20" heavy barrel .308 (Ruger Hawkeye Tactical) and honestly see no need to have a muzzle break on it to reduce what little recoil there is after the weight of the rifle, scope, bipod, ammo (over 10lbs. at this point) and the recoil pad take the oomph out out it.

I do admit that everyone's level of tolerance is different however.

Personally I would look at it this way, if it comes with a muzzle brake, and you don't like it, then at least you still have a threaded barrel to hang whatever else you want off of it, either a flash hider, a suppressor, both a flash hider with a suppressor on it (same with a muzzle break depending on types for everything involved) or even just a thread protector.

Unless you'd rather have a completely 'clean' barrel.

Hit_Factor
November 30, 2012, 05:34 PM
I have a compensator on several competition guns and they definitely help with faster followup shots.

I have fired a Glock 23c and while the recoil impulse is different, the extra concussion wasn't worth it.

I must admit that the difference between a muzzle break and compensator is not some thing i can explain.

stubbicatt
November 30, 2012, 06:35 PM
I put a Cooley Compensator on my Heavy Metal rifle and while it *may* have ameliorated recoil impulse, it definitely kept the muzzle deflection down to a barely perceptible shift, making fast followup shots much easier.

YMMV.

chrome_austex
November 30, 2012, 06:55 PM
I love the brake on my 308 Remington bolt gun. It does significantly reduce the recoil, maybe 40-50%. My range is usually close to empty, so noise (which isn't much worse from the shooter's position) is less of an issue.

helotaxi
November 30, 2012, 07:12 PM
My 20" .308 bolt gun with a Cooley brake is much less obnoxious than the 16" .223 Evolution barreled AR that I have with the brake machined into the end. That AR is abusive WRT noise. The .308 really isn't that bad.

Most of the muzzle devices that I've seen on AR10s are flash hiders, not brakes or comps.

MilsurpShooter
November 30, 2012, 10:19 PM
Savage 110ba in .338 Lapua. I had that thing in a death grip not knowing what to expect. Kicks less then my 8mm Mauser and Mosin Nagant it seems.

rcmodel
November 30, 2012, 10:23 PM
Well, I would certainly hope it kicks less.

It weighs almost 16 pounds without a scope or bipod on it!

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110BA

With that kind of weight, it should barely kick at all, if you don't throw your back out getting it to the range.

rc

MilsurpShooter
December 1, 2012, 02:54 PM
lol RC, understandable, what I was trying to say was after long range sessions resulting in black and blues from my Mauser and nagant, shooting that thing was a shock considering the numbers of the cartridge.

floorit76
December 1, 2012, 03:02 PM
Check out the Big Chubby by Rat Worx and Curt Werries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toKNFmCj12U

45crittergitter
December 1, 2012, 03:55 PM
Note that it's muzzle BRAKE (as in slow down), not BREAK (as in broken). Personally I've had no desire for one due to the extra noise and cost, at least until you get into the elephant calibers and I don't have one on those either. Opinions vary.

Kachok
December 1, 2012, 03:58 PM
308s just don't kick hard enough to justify those darn noise makers. I rather deal with a little recoil then a bunch of muzzle blast, that is why most production rifles come without them.

buckhorn_cortez
December 1, 2012, 06:39 PM
I take a blood thinner, and without the muzzle brake on my .308, the shooting sessions would be short. The brake reduces the recoil to about equal to my 6mm. I also have one on my AR15 and find that the follow up shots are much faster as the muzzle rise is nearly zero.

stubbicatt
December 2, 2012, 10:39 AM
Some that intrigue me are the Surefire brakes that double as a mounting point for a sound suppressor.

longdayjake
December 2, 2012, 01:48 PM
Muzzle brakes are awesome. Unless you only shoot your gun on a bench next to other people. Then they are just annoying. But what they do for the shooter is awesome. Ear protection is a must though. But it should be anyway.

Revoliver
December 2, 2012, 03:49 PM
Some that intrigue me are the Surefire brakes that double as a mounting point for a sound suppressor.

There are Surefire flash hiders that offer the same capability as well, along with AAC's 18 and 51 T flash hiders and Smith's Vortex flash hider (with their own respective company's silencers).

Using either a muzzle brake or a flash hider as the mounting point for a silencer will allow the muzzle brake or flash hider to act as an additional initial baffle that will help increase the life of the silencer's actual baffles.

gary0529
December 2, 2012, 06:16 PM
Have the factory installed brake on my Armalite AR-30 338 LM and it brings it down to what I perceive a 30-06 level.
Not at all punishing.
Now, what it does to anyone or anything nearby is a different story.
I use double ear protection-foam plugs and electronic muffs. I have enough hearing loss without adding to it exponentially.
Unless you have mitigating factors like an orthopedic shoulder problem or as previously stated, are on an anti-coagulant and bruise like a ripe peach, I don't see the need for a MB on a 308.
Just my $.02
Gary

tryshoot
December 2, 2012, 08:20 PM
I want more brakes on more of my guns. My .300 wtby mag is reduced greatly. I want one on my .243. I would not have one at a range. Noise is no diff to shooter. If around stand right behind shooter. If off to side much it will rattle ribs.

chris in va
December 2, 2012, 10:28 PM
A brake made a huge difference with my friend's FAL. Rather enjoyable shooting it prone now.

HKGuns
December 2, 2012, 11:31 PM
308s just don't kick hard enough to justify those darn noise makers.

^^This on a .308 unless you have a medical condition as described above.^^

.338 Win Mag is about as small as I'd go for a muzzle break.

floorit76
December 3, 2012, 12:02 AM
To some, a brake has nothing to do with recoil per say. But muzzle jump, and the ease of keeping the crosshairs on target for a follow up shot.

Revoliver
December 3, 2012, 04:03 AM
To some, a brake has nothing to do with recoil per say. But muzzle jump, and the ease of keeping the crosshairs on target for a follow up shot.

To many, muzzle jump caused by recoil is simply referred to as, recoil.

floorit76
December 3, 2012, 10:45 AM
I prefer to be able to see the bullet impact through the scope. If you do not, that is your buisness.

Revoliver
December 3, 2012, 04:14 PM
Some people are completely able to see the bullet impact through their scope, if you are not, that is your business.

Justin
December 3, 2012, 05:42 PM
In cases where shooters are concerned with speed, target transitions and split times a good compensator can be a fundamentally useful feature in a rifle.

I fail to understand the folks who, though they may not be able to justify the addition of a compensator to their rifle, are unable to understand that there are times when they can and do make a demonstrable difference.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk. Hence all the misspellings and goofy word choices.

floorit76
December 3, 2012, 05:57 PM
Object to my definition of recoil if you like. But the attitude that "You don't need a muzzle brake because I don't need a muzzle brake" is just silly. Perhaps you would like to share your secret of recoil control? Are you hulk sized? I'm not, I'm 5'5". Do you shoot low power loads? I don't, I don't even reload. Are you a grand master wizzard shooter? I'm not, just a country boy. However, I have been shooting since I was quite young, and completed a course in long range shooting. Everyone there that shot profesionally had a muzzle brake. So why is it that the best trained people there were useing them? They sure weren't the "tacticool" crowd. They were the type that wouldn't want to hump the extra weight if it wasn't paying off somehow. Why do they need it, and you don't?

Revoliver
December 3, 2012, 07:54 PM
I think you should read my very first reply to this thread. I never once posted that noone should use a muzzle break because I do not.I actualy posted exactly the opposite.

floorit76
December 3, 2012, 08:14 PM
I have re-read all your posts in this thread several times. You took issue with my seperating recoil and muzzle flip. My 308 doesn't "kick" back into my shoulder hard at all, but it does lift itself off the bipod, and land several degrees off the target. Watch the video I posted, that rifle recoils straight to the rear, with no jump, and stays on target.

CApighunter
December 3, 2012, 08:41 PM
My biggest issue with muzzle brakes is the blast for other shooters. Right before deer season I made a last minute trip to the range to check the zero on my .30-06. The only bench that was open was next to these young guys with full sleeve tatts, that had a high dollar AR-15 with a brake that looked like it belonged on a .50 BMG. Each time they fired I could feel the concussive blast (this is a .223...) and it was blowing some targets I set on the bench onto the ground. It was very difficult to get an accurate shot while being hit with the muzzle blast every second or two. I had to shoot while they were changing mags to get a decent grouping. Muzzle breaks on anything smaller than a .300 Win Mag seem pointless to me. On a .223 it seems just ridiculous. For a heavy, semi automatic .308 I would say it's totally unnecesary. The recoil will not be bad at all, and I highly doubt you will need to make that quick follow up shot on paper. A good alternative would be an A2 style flash hider, as they protect the threads and don't give off a concussive muzzleblast.
CApighunter

greghvac
December 3, 2012, 08:57 PM
i like my brake,if you don't like it then move

Revoliver
December 3, 2012, 09:28 PM
I have re-read all your posts in this thread several times. You took issue with my seperating recoil and muzzle flip. My 308 doesn't "kick" back into my shoulder hard at all, but it does lift itself off the bipod, and land several degrees off the target. Watch the video I posted, that rifle recoils straight to the rear, with no jump, and stays on target.

I took issue with your seperation of recoil and muzzle jump to avoid anyone else's posts that do not differentiate from being dismissed. I and everyone I know considers muzzle jump to be a given biproduct of recoil, and as I posted, I'm sure there are many others that do the same.

As to your video, but more specifically your own personal circumstances, if you are unable to comfortably control the recoil of your .308 or any other rifle you own to your liking, and feel that a muzzle brake will offer the solution you are looking for, then by all means, go ahead and get one.

Other people like to add more weight to the rifle to tame recoil, and others still do not have an issue to begin with with their .308s or other rifles.

As I posted before, I do admit that everyone's level of tolerance is different.

floorit76
December 3, 2012, 09:41 PM
Tolerance, denotes pain or discomfort. I have neither.

powder
December 3, 2012, 09:44 PM
It depends; there are now several makes/models for every whim... not an answer but, it is what it is...?

Revoliver
December 4, 2012, 02:23 AM
Tolerance, denotes pain or discomfort. I have neither.

http://i.word.com/idictionary/tolerance
3*:*the allowable deviation from a standard

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=tolerance
2.a.*Leeway for variation from a standard

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tolerance?s=t&ld=1120
2.*a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward opinions and practices that differ from one's own.

Girodin
December 4, 2012, 07:00 AM
Using either a muzzle brake or a flash hider as the mounting point for a silencer will allow the muzzle brake or flash hider to act as an additional initial baffle that will help increase the life of the silencer's actual baffles.

A brake, yes. A flash hider, not so much. This is why some cans are rated for full auto if used with a brake mount but not if one is using a flash hider mount. Look at a brake and look at a flash hider. A brake has chambers in essence act as additional baffles and take the initial blast. A flash hider is just open from the muzzle until the first baffle of the can. There is nothing really taking the blast.

A Brake mount
http://www.adcofirearms.com/detailpics/bMB556K.jpg

Flash hider mounts

http://www.themiscreant.com/images/guns/flash.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0HigYD1NK2p_EcFCr9XaBxLiahChCYeiNeJ1FQ0q2Py1OWGcT

Girodin
December 4, 2012, 07:09 AM
Muzzle breaks on anything smaller than a .300 Win Mag seem pointless to me. On a .223 it seems just ridiculous. For a heavy, semi automatic .308 I would say it's totally unnecesary.

People that make statements like this clearly have a pretty limited understanding guns and various kinds of shooting. There are a number of good reasons and notable advantages to be had from good brakes and comps on even semi auto 5.56 guns, to say nothing of 308s.

It baffles me that rather than try to learn why others do what they do, so many people simply assume that everyone else's needs, desires, and aims must be the same as their own and are dismisses or worst towards things they haven't even taken the time to educate themselves about. Just because you don't see a benefit to a brake on your 308 (or even 300 win mag) deer rifle doesn't mean it might not be crucial equipment on someone else's 5.56 3 gun carbine.

My grandpa used to always say, "What you're not up on, you're down on." That is showing its self to be very true in this thread.

Lloyd Smale
December 4, 2012, 07:17 AM
Im not a fan of breaks. Im deaf enough allready. Only one i have left is a 7stw that came with one when i bought it used. they do help though if your recoil sensitive. I bought a used model 7 stainless 308 from the buddys gunshop. Someone had a break installed on it for there wife. Recoil was so mild i thought i had made a mistake loading the ammo. About felt like shooting my heavy barreled 22250. But it was LOUD. So i had another friend cut it off and recrown it. I dont have a problem with heavy recoil so they dont do much for me but its probably a good deal for someone who is disabled or for a wife or young kid.

stubbicatt
December 4, 2012, 11:36 AM
My grandpa used to always say, "What you're not up on, you're down on." That is showing its self to be very true in this thread.

Thank you! That's so true!

Justin
December 4, 2012, 03:42 PM
It baffles me that rather than try to learn why others do what they do, so many people simply assume that everyone else's needs, desires, and aims must be the same as their own and are dismisses or worst towards things they haven't even taken the time to educate themselves about. Just because you don't see a benefit to a brake on your 308 (or even 300 win mag) deer rifle doesn't mean it might not be crucial equipment on someone else's 5.56 3 gun carbine.

When it comes to discussions of recoil reduction and/or control, there always seems to be a contingent of people who engage in unabashed willy-waving, and that if you use a comp, especially on a gun like an AR15, it is implied that you're somehow not manly.

For those who can only put recoil into the categories of "hurts" and "doesn't hurt", all explanations about split times, accurate, rapid-fire shooting, high-round counts, and faster target transitions are just going to fall on deaf ears.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. I've shot compensated and uncompensated guns side-by-side and have seen a noticeable difference even when shooting .223 rifles, and even with .22 LR handguns.

Some of the best competitive shooters in the world, including Jerry Miculek and Taran Butler shoot guns with compensators, and seem to think that they help.

Between my own personal experience, and seeing comps used by any number of respectable world-class shooters, I think it's fairly clear that they are an improvement. If someone else wants to deny reality, I suppose that's their prerogative.

Kingcreek
December 4, 2012, 03:49 PM
I put one on a M1a Bush Rifle 18" barrel. After shooting it a couple times, I took it off and tossed it in a box under the bench. Little less recoil- lot more noise.

navajo
December 4, 2012, 07:30 PM
Had an AR 10 heavy barreled carbine with a break, that thing was LOUD, Sold it. The carbine I own now has a flash hider. Reasonable noise but its still a short barreled .308 and pretty loud.
The heavy barreled 20: rifle has a flash hider. don't notice the report nearly as much. Or the recoil. It aslo has a heavy scope.

Speaking Armalite, zero experience with the clones.

Put a Czech break on a CZ 58 and what little muzzle flip there was dissapeared.
Much more noise though.

readyeddy
December 4, 2012, 07:47 PM
Well, I guess if you're a CQB kind of person or if you must reduce recoil for medical reasons, then it's a good idea. But if you just poke holes in paper at the local range and are not recoil sensitive, then it's just making a lot of unnecessary noise.

45crittergitter
December 19, 2012, 06:06 PM
Are you hulk sized?

Although I'm an engineer, I've never figured out why a person's size should make any practical difference with regard to recoil tolerance, assuming the proper gun fit and technique, although I do have some conflicting theories.

Me, I'm 51 years old with a bit of arthritis, about 5'8", about 140#, and shoot a ~9# .416 Rem. Mag. without a brake. But if you want one on your .22 Short, go right ahead!

stubbicatt
December 21, 2012, 10:10 AM
LOL! The willy wavers are out in force!

+1 Justin.

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