Once again. Rifle scope is NOT a bino!


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Kingcreek
November 30, 2012, 04:24 PM
My gawd, I thought everyone had got the word by now. Apparently not.
Last night I was sitting on an east facing hillside overlooking a ravine and timber edge, waiting for the deer destined to fill tag #2 when I heard brush and branches breaking 150 yards away. Hm, really big deer maybe? Not this time, an orange clad hunter bulls through the brush and into the clear and looks across at me as I sit quietly in some grass about mid chest high.
I watch him to see what he would do next and sure enough, he shoulders his rifle and looks at me through the scope. Now I am obviously an orange sporting human. Maybe he wanted to see if he recognized me, I dunno, but my rifle was across my lap. I was far enough below the rim that the setting sun would not have blinded me to him.
I didn't move until he lowered his rifle, but then I got up and walked straight to him. I even left my rifle behind, I'm not sure why. He stayed put as I walked up to him and I see he is probably about 15 years old. Too young for an a$$ kicking from me.
I said to him, "I am going to give you the benefit of doubt that nobody ever told you different, but if you ever point a rifle at me again, for any reason, I'm going to assume it is a hostile act and I'm going to react accordingly. In other words, its not going to end well for you. You want to get a good look at something, you carry a pair of binoculars."
A rifle scope is for AIMING. Binocs and spotting scopes are for VIEWING.
I didn't really think this stuff happened anymore but I was wrong. I never asked him who he was and he mumbled an apology of some kind as I walked back to retrieve my rifle and head home. There was less than 30 minutes of shooting time left anyway but I was so mad I just wanted to get out of there before I did something that would get me in trouble.
I hope and pray that nobody on this forum does this.

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CraigC
November 30, 2012, 04:30 PM
I agree 100%! It should be rather obvious but some people, including several on this forum, are completely lost in this regard. It's stupid beyond words but some folks just don't get it. Luckily, I get to hunt on my own property and if someone is looking at me through their riflescope, I get to send them packing. Still unnerving.

bob barker
November 30, 2012, 04:32 PM
Wow, I haven't been hunting in a while. Shocked this could happen.

Texan Scott
November 30, 2012, 04:35 PM
Same reason I've never mounted a flashlight to any of my pistols... I don't want to have have to POINT a gun at someone to find out if I SHOULD be. 'Course, I don't scope my rifles, either....

CraigC
November 30, 2012, 04:37 PM
Same reason I've never mounted a flashlight to any of my pistols...
If I get up in the middle of the night with my pistol, I KNOW that anyone I find in the house needs a pistol pointed at them. ;)

Cosmoline
November 30, 2012, 04:42 PM
It's a completely different issue. The gun-mounted light *IS* a safety device to ensure the shadowy form isn't the drunk neighbor. It permits you to follow the core rule of knowing your target and what is behind it. And it has the benefit of enhancing your ability to hit the target at night. It is of course not to be used as a general purpose flashlight.

22-rimfire
November 30, 2012, 04:46 PM
This has happened to me. I think it has happened to many hunters who hunt on public land or land that people feel is open to their use without permission. I applaud your restraint. I hope he learned a very important lesson....

Scopes are for sighting... binoculars are for looking.....

rondog
November 30, 2012, 04:52 PM
Wow, that would have been tough to resist looking back at him through MY scope. See how he likes them apples.

Kingcreek
November 30, 2012, 07:57 PM
Never was I tempted to return the favor of scoping him. He is somebody's kid but if you're gonna send your kid out with a rifle, for god sakes make sure he knows the do's and dont's.

H&Hhunter
November 30, 2012, 08:01 PM
You want to get a good look at something, you carry a pair of binoculars."
A rifle scope is for AIMING. Binocs and spotting scopes are for VIEWING.

This a HUGE deal I've seen guys who should know better do it. DO NOT USE YOUR RIFLE SCOPE FOR SPOTTING,GLASSING OR VIEWING. It's stupid at best and down right deadly dangerous at worst.

jrdolall
December 1, 2012, 10:50 PM
I still have friends who see a deer and check it out with their scope rather than wih binos. Just plain dumb.

snakeman
December 1, 2012, 11:08 PM
Yep good bino's are a must.

paintballdude902
December 2, 2012, 03:56 AM
yup, the game warden made damn sure he told us that during my hunters education class when i was 15. he told us to "think about the idea of someone 200yds away staring at you through a rifle scope....now how does that make you feel? it makes me feel like im about to get shot and ive got every right to shoot back or even shoot first"

i carry 2 pairs of binos, a large pair stay in the truck for when im going to hunt bean or corn fields the small ones go in my pack.

but i will say that when i see a deer or a bear i still use my riflescope to judge if its a shooter or not. but thats a time when just a few seconds could mean a missed shot. when im glassing fields or checking out a noise in the woods its 100% binos

buck460XVR
December 2, 2012, 09:58 AM
I still have friends who see a deer and check it out with their scope rather than wih binos. Just plain dumb.


Is it? Why? If you scope has the same magnification as a pair of binos and is just as clear, why is it more intelligent to make the extra effort and movement to look thru binos first before raising your gun.....other than being a TV celebrity trying to sell his sponsor's binos. A scope mounted on a rifle is a stable platform for viewing and as long as your finger is off the trigger and the safety is on, looking at a deer thru it is no more dangerous as carrying the rifle around in the woods. While scoping a human is stupid and illegal in many states(here it is a felony to do it to a warden or LEO), using your scope to judge a deer before shooting it, in many cases makes more sense. Such as when still hunting and the deer is looking at you and extra movement may make the difference between a shot or no shot. Already having the rifle on the deer means all one has to do is flip off the safety and put their finger on the trigger to shoot. Try puttin your binos down and outta the way and raise your rifle on a deer layin' 40 yards away in it's bed starrin' you down sometime. Yes, out west and in areas where you are looking at deer at hundreds or thousands of yards that have no idea you are there and the amount of movement made has no effect whatsoever on the outcome of your hunt, I say go for the binos. But sneak huntin' thru thick cover and you see a shape at 50 yards that looks outta place......you better be lookin' thru your scope when you spot those horns, otherwise you have missed an opportunity. Callin' folks just plain dumb for a practice that can be safe and effective in methods of hunting you have no clue about is just that.....plain dumb.

j1
December 2, 2012, 10:03 AM
Amen brother. A good friend of mine uses his scope to check things out and thinks that I am foolish for carrying binoculars. He is a good hunter and a good shot and a smart man. However this one action scares me more than a little.

mavracer
December 2, 2012, 10:27 AM
It's a completely different issue. The gun-mounted light *IS* a safety device to ensure the shadowy form isn't the drunk neighbor. It permits you to follow the core rule of knowing your target and what is behind it.
I don't see any difference, it's still a violation of rules 2 and 4 weather you point the pistol at the shadowy form in your house or point your rifle at the shadowy form in the woods.
A handheld flashlight should be used to ID.
I still have friends who see a deer and check it out with their scope rather than wih binos. Just plain dumb.
Gotta agree with Buck. If your friend has already ID the target as a deer what is dumb about pointing the gun at it?

ZeroJunk
December 2, 2012, 10:35 AM
I think a hunter who can't tell a deer from a man at any reasonable shooting distance without binoculars scares me more.

Taurus 617 CCW
December 2, 2012, 10:40 AM
Yes the binos get heavy around the neck but they weigh less than the rifle. It drives me nuts too when I see some glassing a hillside with their rifle. I like to find a stump that overlooks a draw, prop myself up in front of it, and slowly glass everything (with binos). You see a lot more when you are still and quiet.

CraigC
December 2, 2012, 10:41 AM
Well, judging what you KNOW is a deer with your riflescope and carelessly spotting in every direction looking for deer with your rifle are two very different things.

Boxhead
December 2, 2012, 11:17 AM
One has zero business hunting big or small fur bearing game without a pair of binoculars, plain and simple. If one chooses to he/she does not know *** they are doing and should be home watching television.

22-rimfire
December 2, 2012, 12:01 PM
There is a big difference between scoping a deer or other game animal with your rifle scope after you have identified the animal, as opposed to simply using the rifle and scope to enhance your eye sight to search edges of fields, the woods to identify some odd coloration/angle/reflection, or in other words identify things that just might be the deer or game animal you are hunting for. The second are binocular activities.

Art Eatman
December 2, 2012, 12:36 PM
I agree with 22-rimfire. Binoculars are for looking over the countryside in an effort to identify game--or spot hunters and hikers. If you have already figured out that the deer is a deer and not a person, I see no reason not to look at it through the scope.

If I'm sitting and glassing and see a buck, I'll continue with the binoculars to judge his shootability. Then get the rifle up and shoot him if he's decent.

If I'm just sitting and looking and see a little piddly-diddly buck, I'll use the binoculars to see if his daddy or grand-daddy goosed him out into the open.

If I'm just sitting and looking and Mr. Big sticks his head up, forget about binoculars.

If it's just "something in the brush", that's when the binoculars are important and the riflescope is not.

jrdolall
December 2, 2012, 12:52 PM
I generally sit in areas with limited visibility where seeing another hunter is unlikely. My land, and good neighbors make my normal hunting environment a pretty safe area. With that said I usually sit in a deer stand with my gun propped nearby for easy access and my binos in my hand. If THE ONE steps out then I know it without ever lifting my binos and I go for my gun. I do not check out a deer through my scope even if I know for a fact it is a deer. Personally I don't pick up my rifle until I am pretty darned sure I intend to shoot the animal. This practice has cost me a couple of nice bucks over the years as I was not ready when they moved through. In virtually every case there is absolutely no doubt that I am going to shoot a deer or just watch the deer. Binos are better for doing that than is a rifle scope.
I understand that looking through a scope at an animal is completely safe as long as you don't touch the trigger but it works best for me the way I do it. To each his own but I see no reason to point a gun at something I don't plan to shoot.

ZeroJunk
December 2, 2012, 01:07 PM
One has zero business hunting big or small fur bearing game without a pair of binoculars, plain and simple. If one chooses to he/she does not know *** they are doing and should be home watching television.
Depends on where you are. It would be a little silly to be looking all around with binoculars when the furthest you can see in any direction is 50 or 60 yards.

H&Hhunter
December 2, 2012, 01:18 PM
Yes the binos get heavy around the neck but they weigh less than the rifle.

Wow that was an easy fix....:)

http://www.cabelas.com/optics-harnesses-cabelas-pro-binocular-harness-1.shtml

CraigC
December 2, 2012, 02:12 PM
Depends on where you are. It would be a little silly to be looking all around with binoculars when the furthest you can see in any direction is 50 or 60 yards.
No it doesn't. Where I hunt on my property, I can't see any more than about 100yds in any direction, usually 50-75yds. I have binoculars around my neck every time and I use them. Of course, I'm not hunting with a scoped rifle either but that wouldn't alter my practices.

ZeroJunk
December 2, 2012, 02:27 PM
No it doesn't. Where I hunt on my property, I can't see any more than about 100yds in any direction, usually 50-75yds. I have binoculars around my neck every time and I use them. Of course, I'm not hunting with a scoped rifle either but that wouldn't alter my practices.
I deer hunt just about every day. Very few days go by that I don't see deer. One day last week I saw close to twenty, didn't really count. I didn't use binoculars or look at any of them through the scope. If the rack doesn't jump out at me I really have no interest, although I will kill a couple of doe for meat before it's over with.

I was on a guided hunt a couple of weeks ago and the "guide" couldn't even see a couple of mule deer after I pointed out where they were. Nothing worth shooting and he finally saw them when they bounced away.

Do I miss one every now and then ? Sure. I don't care.

H&Hhunter
December 2, 2012, 02:38 PM
I think a hunter who can't tell a deer from a man at any reasonable shooting distance without binoculars scares me more.

ZJ,

That's not the issue. The issue is that people glass an area with a rifle scope then find a man in their scope or those idiots who see a man with their naked eye then use their rifle scope to have a closer look.

Same with close range glassing I use binos to pick out game at closer ranges in thick cover all the time. I can't tell you how many times I've put glass on a chunk of brush at close range to see that leg or an ear mixed into the brush that there is no possible way to see with a naked eye. Proper glassing is not only about seeing an animal with your naked eye then glassing it to judge it's trophy quality. Proper glassing involves looking a large area over to find animals in the first place.

I use binos and a spotting scope and will glass a good spot for hours at a time. And you'll be amazed how often you'll finally see that critter you've been looking for that was bedded or moved into the area after hours of seeing nothing.

ZeroJunk
December 2, 2012, 03:59 PM
ZJ,

That's not the issue. The issue is that people glass an area with a rifle scope then find a man in their scope or those idiots who see a man with their naked eye then use their rifle scope to have a closer look.

Same with close range glassing I use binos to pick out game at closer ranges in thick cover all the time. I can't tell you how many times I've put glass on a chunk of brush at close range to see that leg or an ear mixed into the brush that there is no possible way to see with a naked eye. Proper glassing is not only about seeing an animal with your naked eye then glassing it to judge it's trophy quality. Proper glassing involves looking a large area over to find animals in the first place.

I use binos and a spotting scope and will glass a good spot for hours at a time. And you'll be amazed how often you'll finally see that critter you've been looking for that was bedded or moved into the area after hours of seeing nothing.
I don't have a problem with any of your thinking. I just don't use them or my scope to look around. Never have. In fact it is quite rare when I raise my scope to even look at a deer that I don't shoot. When I do I know it is a deer, a buck in particular, and a pretty good one.

I'm sure it is a good tool, particularly in the west.

wankerjake
December 2, 2012, 04:10 PM
To the OP, I think walking over to him and educating him sternly was the exact right move. Hope it made an impression and he learned something valuable.

Same with close range glassing I use binos to pick out game at closer ranges in thick cover all the time. I can't tell you how many times I've put glass on a chunk of brush at close range to see that leg or an ear mixed into the brush that there is no possible way to see with a naked eye. Proper glassing is not only about seeing an animal with your naked eye then glassing it to judge it's trophy quality. Proper glassing involves looking a large area over to find animals in the first place.

I use binos and a spotting scope and will glass a good spot for hours at a time. And you'll be amazed how often you'll finally see that critter you've been looking for that was bedded or moved into the area after hours of seeing nothing.

Good post on glassing. Some people know how to do it, and some don't. Some don't even care to learn, or the "weight" of binoculars is a deal breaker for them. And that's fine, as long as you aren't looking at me thru a scope I could care less.

I have pretty crappy eyesight and red/green colorblindness. Looking thru glass helps me A LOT at finding animals. There are a whole lot of times I've made good use of glass in thick vegetation, picked up just an ear flicker or the inside of a leg. Take the glass down and you would never know an animal was there, even inside 100 yards. If I'm hunting big game, I'm carrying binos. More often than not, I'm seeing them thru binoculars first. I didn't know that binoculars were actually worthless in those situations until I read about it in hunting forums.

ZeroJunk
December 2, 2012, 04:14 PM
I didn't know that binoculars were actually worthless in those situations until I read about it in hunting forums.

LOL, I didn't know you had to have them to hunt until hunting forums. These dead heads I have hanging on the wall didn't either.

wankerjake
December 2, 2012, 04:38 PM
LOL, I didn't know you had to have them to hunt until hunting forums. These dead heads I have hanging on the wall didn't either.

Hey now, I didn't say you had to have them. I said they HELP ME, and they are a very useful tool for those who know how to use them.

There's more than one way to kill a buck, so to speak. Fair enough?

MachIVshooter
December 2, 2012, 04:40 PM
I agree with 22-rimfire. Binoculars are for looking over the countryside in an effort to identify game--or spot hunters and hikers. If you have already figured out that the deer is a deer and not a person, I see no reason not to look at it through the scope.

+1.

I carry a quality but relatively small and low-powered set of binoculars. Easy to identify species at long distances, but tough to count points on a rack at 400 yards with small objective 8x binocs.

Once the animal is identified as a potential target, I will use the clearer image and higher magnification of my Leupold VX-III 4.5-14x to determine if I'm going to shoot or not. If the critter is worth taking, then I'm already on target.

That said, I would NEVER look at another hunter through a mounted scope. Good way to get shot at.

Ankeny
December 2, 2012, 05:04 PM
One has zero business hunting big or small fur bearing game without a pair of binoculars, plain and simple. If one chooses to he/she does not know *** they are doing and should be home watching television. Really? I called coyotes for years without packing binos. Didn't need them for the situation at hand. In fact, they were counter productive.

FWIW, I have seen many opportunities lost on some decent bucks by folks who were looking through their binos instead of their rifle scope...

ZeroJunk
December 2, 2012, 05:38 PM
Hey now, I didn't say you had to have them. I said they HELP ME, and they are a very useful tool for those who know how to use them.

There's more than one way to kill a buck, so to speak. Fair enough?
Fair enough. I would actually like to have a good pair, but have never been able to quite make myself spend several hundred or a thousand dollars.

Pat4x4
December 2, 2012, 06:51 PM
There is a big difference between scoping a deer or other game animal with your rifle scope after you have identified the animal, as opposed to simply using the rifle and scope to enhance your eye sight to search edges of fields, the woods to identify some odd coloration/angle/reflection, or in other words identify things that just might be the deer or game animal you are hunting for. The second are binocular activities.
this sums it up real well.. Spotting a group of dear to count points is one thing.. But hell yes use your bino's for general spotting

22-rimfire
December 2, 2012, 08:04 PM
Fair enough. I would actually like to have a good pair, but have never been able to quite make myself spend several hundred or a thousand dollars.

There have been threads on this topic. My choice for woods use are Leupold Yosemite 6x30 and for more general use Nikon Monarch 8x42. I like the Leupolds, but if I were scanning edges of fields and so forth I would prefer the Nikons. ($100-$120 & $300 respectively). A lot of folks like the Vortex binos where cost is critical. Obviously there are better binoculars and you pay for them. I can't afford ones like that, but if I used them all the time, I might try to afford them.

Kingcreek
December 2, 2012, 08:50 PM
Thanks for the replies and support. I was thinking about grabbing his rifle and modifying against a tree until I saw it was a kid. I was P.O'd but not to that point. Maybe he really didn't know any better and to his credit he did apologize.
I have no problem scoping game if you're sure that's what it is but I was wearing orange hat and vest on a hillside of dead grass and I was only 150 yards from where he came out, not far enough to leave any doubt.
I had a pair of Steiner 8x30 autofocus that I dearly loved until it slipped a prism and lost focus on one side. Now I carry my 6x leupold range finder but I've got to get another pair of binos or get my old ones fixed before next season. I'm thinking about combo range finding binos.

bad_aim_billy
December 5, 2012, 09:45 PM
Meh, never carried binos. I hunt the backcountry where seeing another hunter is exceedingly rare. So I scope anything that looks promising without a second thought during general rifle season. If you're not wearing visible blaze orange like the law requires, you deserve to get scoped. Period.

Pat4x4
December 5, 2012, 10:24 PM
Meh, never carried binos. I hunt the backcountry where seeing another hunter is exceedingly rare. So I scope anything that looks promising without a second thought during general rifle season. If you're not wearing visible blaze orange like the law requires, you deserve to get scoped. Period.
That is in my book really careless and asking for disaster .. And a lot of states like mine you are not required to wear orange..

H&Hhunter
December 5, 2012, 11:40 PM
If you're not wearing visible blaze orange like the law requires, you deserve to get scoped. Period.

And this ^^^^ladies and gentlemen is so wrong, it is criminal negligence and felony menacing all wrapped into one nice little ignorant package.


Mr. Billy,

What if the helpless soles you are scoping are a mother and a small child out for hike that have NO IDEA there is even a hunting season on! You should seriously consider taking up another hobby.

wankerjake
December 6, 2012, 10:17 AM
If you're not wearing visible blaze orange like the law requires, you deserve to get scoped. Period.

Unreal. You really ought to think about why scoping people without regard may not be appropriate. If that really is your standard of practice, you have no business out in the woods with a rifle. Period.

grampster
December 6, 2012, 11:25 AM
Quote:
"If you're not wearing visible blaze orange like the law requires, you deserve to get scoped. Period. "

Oh my goodness. I hope you are trying to be funny here. If so, you are not funny at all. If you are serious, I'd like to know where you hunt because I never, ever wish to be in the field wherever you are, sir. Your comments is so wrong on so many levels.

I was hunting deer one time when a fellow came galloping through the woods on a horse just after daylight on opening day. He had no idea about deer season. The look on his face was delightful to see though when he saw a two hundred pound pumpkin ensconced up under a bushy pyramidal evergreen with a rifle in his lap. After I advised him, he headed out of the woods.

Sav .250
December 6, 2012, 01:28 PM
I`m sure that situation happens far to often. Some you see (like you) and some you don`t. So much for hunting safety!!!!

Robert
December 6, 2012, 02:03 PM
Enough. Be civil or find somewhere else to argue but you will not call each other names in open forum.

Walkalong
December 6, 2012, 02:21 PM
I deleted some posts insulting people. No need for that. There is some good info in the thread.

IMHO, using a scope to survey an area is not only not as safe as using binoculars, but potentially very unsafe.

That said, there is no need to insult anyone who disagrees with your opinion on thqat. Just post your opinion for the readers and they can judge for themselves.

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