Tried to zero my rifle at 50 feet and this was the result


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BehindTheIronCurtain
November 30, 2012, 11:24 PM
Hey guys, below you will see a picture of a target I shot at slightly under 50 feet at my range. No vice rest, just a little notch on the range table I rested the muzzle I the rest was done freestyle.

I will be hunting deer with this rifle, it is a cheap savage axis in 30 06.

I realize 50 feet isn't much, but the other range is 100 feet and very far away.

The target will show the closest shot to the bullseye is about 2 inches from the bullseye and the furthest is about 3 1/2 off, probably less as I estimated using my thumb to measure.

You will also notice the group is tight, so I assume I will have all shots landing there. Adjusting my windage and elevation was tough considering I didn't have a stable rest.

Is this good enough? Or do I have to get it dead on target?

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ColtPythonElite
November 30, 2012, 11:25 PM
Not near close enough for 50 feet.

351 WINCHESTER
November 30, 2012, 11:35 PM
At 50 yards you will miss the target completely. Go ahead an make those adjustments and fire another shot. Keep adjusting until you are dead center.

wyohome
November 30, 2012, 11:47 PM
I would get it much closer than that before taking a chance of making a bad hit on an animal. Is there somewhere you can shoot it at your hunting area?

BehindTheIronCurtain
November 30, 2012, 11:47 PM
Mosin 50 feet iron sights

allank
December 1, 2012, 12:13 AM
I just re-sighted my deer rifle to get bulls-eye at 50 and 100 yrds. I don't want any sighting errors to add up to a bad shot on the day.

gunner69
December 1, 2012, 12:17 AM
Can't you find a 100 yard range near where you live? You should have that '06 sighted in to shoot about 2" high at 100 yards and directly above the bullseye. Shoot it sand bagged in off a bench to leave "You" out of the picture. That Savage should be able to put all rounds in a cluster around 1" for sure.

BehindTheIronCurtain
December 1, 2012, 12:23 AM
Will head to the 100 foot range on Monday for sure and take my rest with me. Again, this is 100 FEET. hope that will be enough, there aren't many options here in ny.

Andrew Leigh
December 1, 2012, 12:58 AM
It is not good practice to rest the muzzle on any hard surface, it will cause the barrel to jump and lift. When zeroing the rifle it will print a group in spot A and then when hunting out of hand will print in spot B. I suggest you get your hand or bean bag or the likes under the forearm of the rifle and zero the rifle.

The point of zeroing a rifle is to get it shooting exactly where you want. Doing the exercise at less than 50 yards in my opinion is a waste, you really would like to be at 100 yards. 50 ft simply does not tell you enough. You also need to decide at what maximum range you will be shooting and then use that to guide you on the zero point. If you take gunner69's advice to be 2" high at 100 yds then at 200 yds you will be spot on. This means that for all shots into the boiler room that you will not need to compensate with any holdover out to 200m

I would also hate to dissapoint you but that is not a tight group. If you were to extropolate out to 100 yards that group which you say is 1.5" at 50 ft would amount to 7.5" at 100 yards. Conversely at 50 ft your group should be 0.25" to equate to 1.5" at 100yds. Your rifle should be capable of shooting a group of around 1.5" at 100 yds.

Good luck

1911 guy
December 1, 2012, 01:46 AM
Agreed with Andrew. Support the rifle under the forend, not at the muzzle. That's also not nearly close to being sighted in. Rough estimate on just the windage, you're looking at being over a FOOT off center. And goodness knows where your elevation is, considering height of scope over bore trigs out the angle between bore alignment and scope alignment, which then has to be adjusted to account for bullet drop. I'm almost willing to bet you've got another six to eight inches of correction to make there, too.

I did read your post correctly that you shot at 50 feet, not 50 yards, right? Honestly, with any halfway decent rifle, any ammo but combloc surplus and a scope that isn't broken, I'd expect one jagged hole at 50 feet.

Hate to rain on your parade, but you'd be farr better off finding a real range where you can sight that rifle in for a useable distance. gunner69 isn't far off when he suggests one to two inches high at 100 yards.

Davek1977
December 1, 2012, 04:50 AM
Any errors at 50 feet will be magnified as the distance increases. Considering you are already considerably off, theres no way you can humanely hunt deer with gun that you aren't sure as to where its shooting. Not the answer you want, but 50 ft....even 100 ft....isnt enough to adequately sight in a rifle for hunting.

jmr40
December 1, 2012, 05:43 AM
At 50 feet your shots need to be 1-1.5" LOW to be anywhere near the bullseye at around 100 yards. Hitting that high at only 50 ' will probably mean you are more than a foot high at 100 yards, and maybe a foot to the right.

1911Tuner
December 1, 2012, 07:33 AM
Use a good sandbag rest under the forend and zero at 25 yards. Assuming 1.5 inches between bore and scope centerlines, that will establish a useful maximum point-blank range zero from breath-sniffin' distance out to about 275 yards or maybe a bit further, depending on bullet weight, velocity, and ballistic coefficient.

With this, the bullet will intersect the line of sight twice...once at 25 yards and again at 250...and the bullet won't impact more than 3 inches or so above or below the line of sight out to the MPBR with a center hold.

Windage presents a different problem unless your scope and bore are mechanically zeroed...where the bore axis and the scope axis are in agreement.

If the scope requires more than a half-minute adjustment to achieve windage zero, there is an angle of departure that will multiply as the distance goes beyond the zero range. Scope mounts with a rear mechanical windage adjustment allow you to correct for this. Solid mounts...like the Ruger direct ring mounting system...don't.

Zoogster
December 1, 2012, 07:40 AM
50 feet is a sixth of 100 yards. So it would be at least six times worse at 100 yards. So you will be a foot off.
Add in some margin of error in shooting with adrenaline and it will be even worse.

MCgunner
December 1, 2012, 08:14 AM
Prefer my sight in 2.25" high at 100, dead zerio at 250, near PBR of 274 yards IIRC. But, that's just me. Bring it down and left.

Blue68f100
December 1, 2012, 09:16 AM
Find your self a bore sighter and use it. It will get you closer that what your doing. Once it on then shoot at the distance you are going to be shooting at. But at 50' it should be one ragged hole below the POA. But you must use the forearm for support as previously said.

22-rimfire
December 1, 2012, 10:46 AM
I sight in center fire rifles 1" or 2" high at 100 yds. Then I shoot at 50 yds to check where I'm hitting, and 150 or 200 yds if that particular distance is available. Pretty much know what to expect at those ranges, but it helps me remember. I would not be comfortable at all taking a center fire rifle hunting that was sighted in at 50 FEET. I wouldn't even feel confident with a handgun for hunting unless I shot it at least 50 YARDS.

I will admit that I have shot a deer at 30 feet. But I did it from the hip. :) That is something I practiced a lot with 22 rifles for the fun of it years ago. I don't recommend that one for everyone.

MCgunner
December 1, 2012, 11:29 AM
I find that when I'm 2.25" high at 100, I'm just below the bull at 25 yards. I don't bother with bore sighters, just pull the bolt snd look through the barrel to bore sight, shoot and coarse sight in at 25, then fine sight in at 100 and I'm done. :D

Never, EVER, use the barrel on the rest. Those clamp on the barrel bipods are hilarious.

Patocazador
December 1, 2012, 11:42 AM
50 FEET is a little less than 17 yards. To be accurate enough for deer you need at least an error of 3 moa (minutes of angle) or less. If you do the math, you'll find that 100 YARDS is almost six (6) times farther. Measure the distance of your group from the aiming point and multiply by 6 and that will give you your answer.
If you wanted to kill me at 100 yards, I'd be as safe as if I were home in bed. ;)

mavracer
December 1, 2012, 12:16 PM
No the gun isn't close enough to hunt with and by asking it would seem that your understanding of external ballistics and trajectory should be worked on too, long before you take off after deer.

drsfmd
December 1, 2012, 02:00 PM
Will head to the 100 foot range on Monday for sure and take my rest with me. Again, this is 100 FEET. hope that will be enough, there aren't many options here in ny.

There are literally hundreds of gun clubs in NY. What county are you in? Maybe someone can suggest a club you can join or would be willing to take you as their guest.

Hunterdad
December 1, 2012, 02:31 PM
I'm in Syracuse. If you're close, I'm a member at 2 different clubs and could take you out and get it dialed in. One range goes to a shade under 100 and the other goes out to 300.

Meta
December 1, 2012, 06:22 PM
Getting your rifle properly zeroed at an appropriate distance is mandatory, getting your shooting ability up to snuff before venturing out to shoot at live animals is highly recommended. With two inch groups at 50 feet supported with a rifle, you're looking at BEST a 12 inch group at 100 yards under identical controlled conditions. You won't likely find controlled conditions in the field and that group size will likely increase dramatically. If that's the case, I'd not be shooting at deer much past 50 yards under any circumstances. Two inches from a controlled support is adequate shooting for 100 yards with a rifle. Two inch groups at 50 feet is pistol territory, unsupported. Practice, practice, practice.

jrdolall
December 1, 2012, 10:32 PM
Anything under 50 yards is close to useless as far as patterning your rifle. 100 yards is recommended.

gunner69
December 2, 2012, 12:55 AM
You need a 100 yard range, period! 50 or 100 feet...... that dog won't hunt. I know you Yankees have got to have a 100 yard (minimum) range up there in New York. Otherwise, you are in a heap of do do! Good Luck If you were near Alabama I could take you out in my back yard range to site it in.:neener:

cottswald
December 2, 2012, 09:37 PM
It is not good practice to rest the muzzle on any hard surface, it will cause the barrel to jump and lift. When zeroing the rifle it will print a group in spot A and then when hunting out of hand will print in spot B. I suggest you get your hand or bean bag or the likes under the forearm of the rifle and zero the rifle.

The point of zeroing a rifle is to get it shooting exactly where you want. Doing the exercise at less than 50 yards in my opinion is a waste, you really would like to be at 100 yards. 50 ft simply does not tell you enough. You also need to decide at what maximum range you will be shooting and then use that to guide you on the zero point. If you take gunner69's advice to be 2" high at 100 yds then at 200 yds you will be spot on. This means that for all shots into the boiler room that you will not need to compensate with any holdover out to 200m

I would also hate to dissapoint you but that is not a tight group. If you were to extropolate out to 100 yards that group which you say is 1.5" at 50 ft would amount to 7.5" at 100 yards. Conversely at 50 ft your group should be 0.25" to equate to 1.5" at 100yds. Your rifle should be capable of shooting a group of around 1.5" at 100 yds.

Good luck
No the gun isn't close enough to hunt with and by asking it would seem that your understanding of external ballistics and trajectory should be worked on too, long before you take off after deer.
IronCurtain, take special note of these. -- Unless you're kidding, and even then it's not a very good joke.

hsiehjohn
December 2, 2012, 10:25 PM
Do you have a scope on that rifle? If not, you should get one. If you do, you need a better one.

ngnrd
December 2, 2012, 11:15 PM
Assuming there are iron sights on the rifle, there's no need for a scope at 50 feet. And there's no need to shoot farther than 50 feet if the shooter can't keep the holes touching at that range. Save your scope money and use it for more ammo and range time. Once you are proficient at 50 or 100 feet, then think about getting a scope. Although it shouldn't really be necessary for shots under 100 yards.

If there's already a scope mounted, you might want to check that there's not a problem with either the scope or the mounts.

Andrew Leigh
December 3, 2012, 06:21 AM
To the OP,

we are trying to help you out here bud. How far have you got with the rifle and setting it in?

788Ham
December 3, 2012, 01:56 PM
"...... the other range is 100 ft. and very far away." 100 ft. is too far for you to shoot? Then you'd best stay out of the woods pal! What you've shot in that group is pretty good, but definitely needs some adj. to the LFT to center the shots. When you can get your '06 bullets to group like that @ 100 YARDS, you've got something then. More range time !

bodam
December 3, 2012, 04:31 PM
Can't he just take the bolt out and look down the barrel to get it close? That's what I did with my Axis to get started, and it was close at 50 YARDS not feet

sixgunner455
December 3, 2012, 11:59 PM
He probably could, if he knows how or knows that he needs to.

Learning is done step by step. Man asked a question, he's got some answers. Now, he can learn if he'll apply them.

Sav .250
December 4, 2012, 12:36 PM
Sighting in a rifle is paramount. The out come rests on it being done properly.
Don`t want to be harsh on you but doing it "Micky Mouse" doesn`t wash.

Put another way,are you sure you know what your doing? J s/n.

Miata Mike
December 6, 2012, 11:39 PM
Does this rifle have a scope? I had my Savage with Nikon just mounted bore sighted at Sheels. I was lucky to have 2 big targets up at 50 yards because I missed one and hit the other. I had to move like 75 clicks windage to be on bullseye. Saved a lot of ammo...

I never said a word to my salesman at Sheels, but figure I could have done about as well with just looking down the bore with the bolt out. It is now doing 3 round groups that are nice with my hand loads.

Dial the windage to the left quite a bit and try again.

788Ham
December 7, 2012, 12:27 AM
Miata,

You have that much movement in your scope, to move it 75 clicks? Don't you have more lateral movement in your scope base? On my scope base, I can move one screw on each side to adjust the big movement, then use scope dial to fine tune it.

Miata Mike
December 7, 2012, 05:59 PM
Miata,

You have that much movement in your scope, to move it 75 clicks? Don't you have more lateral movement in your scope base? On my scope base, I can move one screw on each side to adjust the big movement, then use scope dial to fine tune it.

I did have that much movement on that Nikon. I was limited on the scope mounts for my Savage 110 and that Nikon scope. I can take a look at it some day, but doubt if I would attempt to center things better. I know Leupold mounts would have centered good with a screwdriver, and I would have done that for sure at the time.

jrdolall
December 9, 2012, 08:32 AM
I have had to rely on sighting my rifle at a very short distance, 20-25 yards, many years ago because I missed a deer that morning and it was the only place we could sight the gun in mid day because people were hunting. I remember we put up a piece of plywood and shot it to find out how far off the scope was and then we dialed it in to a target. We felt good when three shots were touching. The next day we fired it on a 100 yard range and it was slightly off, maybe 1/2", so it can be done. I think it took us most of a box of shells but this was in the early 80s so I can't recall for sure.

cal74
December 9, 2012, 12:14 PM
You'll quickly run out of scope adjustment at that close of a distance


I prefer about an 1-1 1/2 inches high at a hundred yards, but site the rifle in for the distances you're expected to be shooting and get an idea of where it'll be at for a long shot.

No sense in sighting in a gun for a 200-300 yard shot if you'll never shoot past a 100.

d2wing
December 12, 2012, 10:24 PM
In the Army we sighted in at 25 m, and 40 m. Later we shot at 100 m and they were right on. The targets had different aiming points to adjust for distance.

jrdolall
December 13, 2012, 07:29 AM
If you are dead on, and I mean hitting a dot the size of a pencil head, at 25 yards then you will be adequate at 100 yards. There will be some small differences based on ballistics. If you are 3/4" off at 25 yards or spraying at 25 yards then you will probably be way off at 100 yards.
The OP might not even be on paper at 100 yards. I believe in using a gun vise of some sort for sighting in to make sure there is no user error(or as little as possible). I am not good enough to shoot with perfect accuracy from just a rest.

Sport45
December 13, 2012, 08:14 AM
Is the OP maybe confusing feet and yards? 50 feet sounds like an indoor range and I'd be surprised if .30-06 are allowed at many indoor pistol ranges.

The group is respectable for having the muzzle supported at 50 yards. Rest the gun on the stock near the action and it should close up considerably. I'd go for about 1/2 inch high at 50 (assuming a scope mounted 1.5" or so above the bore). If it's open sights I'd go for dead on at 50 and then see where it hits at 100 yards.

roadchoad
December 13, 2012, 12:59 PM
"...... the other range is 100 ft. and very far away." 100 ft. is too far for you to shoot? Then you'd best stay out of the woods pal! What you've shot in that group is pretty good, but definitely needs some adj. to the LFT to center the shots. When you can get your '06 bullets to group like that @ 100 YARDS, you've got something then. More range time !

I believe he means the range itself is far away from him, as in travel distance...

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