With all of the fear mongering going on


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gym
December 1, 2012, 12:33 AM
What is the legal outlook on how and if our rights will be infringed upon.
I get a dozen emails a day, they all claim something else, what is the real outlook for the country and do we really have something to worry about.
Please only answer if you know that what you say is true, not something you heard. Are we in for an actual confiscation, or is it just panic talking. It would also help if you stated your source. I just don't see how such a thing could be enforced, if it were true.
I realize this may be a controversial subject, but it's about time we put it up front and got some educated answers instead of lists of guns and heresay about what some blog or article said. what are the facts.

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Warp
December 1, 2012, 12:48 AM
What is the legal outlook on how and if our rights will be infringed upon.
I get a dozen emails a day, they all claim something else, what is the real outlook for the country and do we really have something to worry about.
Please only answer if you know that what you say is true, not something you heard. Are we in for an actual confiscation, or is it just panic talking. It would also help if you stated your source. I just don't see how such a thing could be enforced, if it were true.
I realize this may be a controversial subject, but it's about time we put it up front and got some educated answers instead of lists of guns and heresay about what some blog or article said. what are the facts.

No.

hso
December 1, 2012, 12:50 AM
Please only answer if you know that what you say is true

what is the real outlook for the country and do we really have something to worry about

These are incompatible since no one can see into the future and give a factually accurate response.

What is true is that there are many people still dedicated to seeing the individual right to keep and bear arms removed and they will not rest. As such we must be vigilant, continue to work to win the culture and legal struggles to convince more people that firearms owners are not deranged, and be ready to act against the antis. Other than that, no one can predict the future.

Try reading this and make up your own mind about how far we've come and how likely we're to loose ground.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/12/the-case-for-more-guns-and-more-gun-control/309161/2/?single_page=true

Hugo
December 1, 2012, 02:37 AM
More elections are in just under 2 years and many people don't want to lose by landslide as the firearms owners say "You're Fired!!!". We will see some attempts but mostly "Sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Keep calm and carry on.

mljdeckard
December 1, 2012, 02:51 AM
The danger is not in legislation, they don't have the votes. The danger is in re-writing BATFE regulations and DOJ prosecution guidelines, which can be done with the stroke of a pen. And foremost, federal court nominations. They will have influence for DECADES.

EddieNFL
December 1, 2012, 08:58 AM
What is true is that there are many people still dedicated to seeing the individual right to keep and bear arms removed and they will not rest.

And some make a living doing so. I get daily emails preaching doom and gloom (not just 2nd issues) if I don't donate to the cause. You have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Mousegun
December 1, 2012, 09:27 AM
The only thing that conserns me just a bit is the lean and the whisper.

"After the election i'll have more flexibility"

Caliper_RWVA
December 1, 2012, 11:01 AM
The only thing that conserns me just a bit is the lean and the whisper.

"After the election i'll have more flexibility"

That's the only thing?

OP: The most powerful tool we have at our disposal is the pen. Follow the NRA's legislative updates, or the activism board here and write your legislators. A representative democracy works by the politicians constituients telling their representatives their opinion. Sure, some of the people you won't change their opinion, but by reminding them that they have constituients who know and defend their rights, we can make the politicians think twice before voting to restrict our rights.

The thing is, the anti-gun crowd probably knows that they aren't going to get an outright ban in place, but they will still try all those little "reasonable" bills that just chip around the edges. Little things that make it just a bit more of a pain to buy or own a gun or a pain to find a place to shoot. Things like that are just as bad because they raise an obstruction to new shooters becoming involved or discourage existing shooters. After some time (years down the line) what this does is reduce popular support for gun rights until we become a minority and eventually a ban can be passed because not enough people care anymore. Right now we seem to be on an upswing with a lot of new shooters (and especiallly women) discovering the shooting sports. That doesn't mean we can rest on our laurels though. Just be vigilant and keep writing letters!

Trent
December 1, 2012, 11:14 AM
Worrying about our firearms rights over the next 2-4 years is awfully shortsighted.

I'm worried about firearms rights for my future grand kids. :)

(Among a host of other things)

beatledog7
December 1, 2012, 12:21 PM
My concerns center around three things:

1) What cases a one-notch more anti-leaning SCOTUS will decide to hear and how they will rule. You can bet that what were once close victories for 2A will be in jeopardy if another activist, antigun justice gets appointed and approved.

2) What radical global government measures (e.g., the UN Small Arms Treaty) our president will push for and how successful he will be.

The key to avoiding these two train wrecks lies with the US Senate. Our charge must be to make sure our Senators know that if they fail to steadfastly and solidly reject any such appointment/treaty, they will be fired.

3) Non-legislative, non-judicial overreach into 2A by various bureaucrats.

Our Chief Executive has no qualms about achieving stricter gun control and infringement of our RKBA via agency regulations, fees, etc.

Pay close attention to the kinds of things that slip quietly out of DC late on Fridays and right before national holidays. Pay special attention to what else is going on in DC whenever there is a news story that can be spun to make our president's opponents look bad, when a sensational story is dominating air time, or a heart-rending tale of woe tops the news. These are opportunities for government to pull a fast one while we're looking the other way.

vito
December 1, 2012, 12:38 PM
I just read the article in the Atlantic that hso provided the link to. Well balanced and realistic, and especially meaningful when you realize that the Atlantic has not been a conservative, pro-2nd Amendment magazine, but has a reputation as a liberal oriented periodical. One objection I have to what is in the article is the author's use of the phrase "gun show loophole", which ignores the requirement for conducting the mandated background check by licensed dealers regardless of where the sale is to take place, and ignores the reality that fixing this so-called loophole would mean that private transactions would be subject to this onerous if not impossible to accomplish requirement by non-dealers. Overall I am not overly concerned that my 2nd Amendment rights will be taken away; my main focus right now is that I live in the only state where there is no legal provision for any concealed carry.

we are not amused
December 1, 2012, 01:54 PM
The danger is not in legislation, they don't have the votes. The danger is in re-writing BATFE regulations and DOJ prosecution guidelines, which can be done with the stroke of a pen. And foremost, federal court nominations. They will have influence for DECADES.

I think you hit it on the head, you and Beatledog7.

I don't see any new restrictive laws being passed, but anything that can be regulated further will be and extremely anti-gun judges will be appointed. Our best bet is to contact our Senators and express our concern and to urge the non-confirmation of anti-gun judges.

TAKtical
December 1, 2012, 02:14 PM
I dont think that there is anything new in the works. Im going to keep doing what Ive been doing for years, educating, writing letters and leading by example. If everyone wants to give themselves an ulcer worrying non stop about the future, let them. It seems like most of the fear mongering group believes that there is nothing we can do to prevent the upcoming disarming of america so I encourage them to make a decision about whether they will just hand them over or not.

Jorg Nysgerrig
December 1, 2012, 02:39 PM
This thread isn't for rampant speculation, even under the guise of satire. If your post disappeared, that's why.

DammitBoy
December 1, 2012, 02:42 PM
The danger is not in legislation, they don't have the votes. The danger is in re-writing BATFE regulations and DOJ prosecution guidelines, which can be done with the stroke of a pen. And foremost, federal court nominations. They will have influence for DECADES.

This +1

Hawaii just enacted an AWB. Which state is next with a similar law?

Jorg Nysgerrig
December 1, 2012, 03:05 PM
Hawaii just enacted an AWB. Which state is next with a similar law?
Is this something new? Hawaii has long banned "assault pistols" and magazines over 10 rounds.

Ignition Override
December 1, 2012, 03:05 PM
hso:
That article in the Atlantic, which you linked, is excellent.
Thanks very much.

cstuard
December 2, 2012, 05:50 PM
I have to admit that I didn't have the stamina to get through the entire "Atlantic" article but do have a Q from the first third. IS there a "gun show loophole"? I live in Md. and have bought pistols from stores both in the store and through them at a gun show. In both cases, they did a backround check and i had to wait 10 days to pick up my gun. No "loophole" at all. Is this different in other states?

Warp
December 2, 2012, 05:53 PM
IS there a "gun show loophole"?

No.

Certain people/groups like to call it a loophole in order to lead people to a specific conclusion.

There is no "gun show loophole"

firesky101
December 2, 2012, 06:24 PM
No.

Certain people/groups like to call it a loophole in order to lead people to a specific conclusion.

There is no "gun show loophole"
exactly. Depending on your state it is either legal to cash and carry at a gunshow (or any other private sale), or not legal. There is no loophole. For instance in CA, I can legally cash and carry antiques, and C&R long guns (as defined by CA not BATFE). Everything else needs a transfer.

DammitBoy
December 2, 2012, 06:35 PM
I do have a Q from the first third. IS there a "gun show loophole"?

No, the first half of that article was filled with plenty of non-facts and left-wing hyperbole.

Warp
December 2, 2012, 06:55 PM
To explain: What the antis refer to as the "gun show loophole" is the fact that the law is not different at a gun show than it is anywhere and everywhere else.

If you are in a state that allows face to face firearms sales between private parties (anybody who is not a federally licensed firearms dealer) without transferring the firearm through an FFL, that is true whether or not you are at a gun show. In many/most states, the requirement for a background check and a form 4473 applies to FFLs...and private citizens can buy/sell firearms amongst themselves.

The antis don't like this. They like whatever makes it more time consuming/difficult/expensive, and saying that I cannot sell a gun to my buddy without going through a dealer makes it more difficult/bothersome/expensive.

Ky Larry
December 2, 2012, 07:31 PM
gym, we gun owners always have something to worry about. I can't read the future but the past is crystal clear. The Anti's will never stop trying to disarm the common citizen. They will use any method and/or tell any lie to achive there agenda.

Our elected representatives are a group of geeks, morons, side show freaks, perverts, and village idiots. They have no honor, sense of shame, or personal morals. They have one, and only one aim in life. That is to get reelected. We must constantly remind them that we, the people, have the power to pull their snouts out of the public trough. That is the only way we can ensure our rights under the Second Amendment.

d2wing
December 2, 2012, 09:39 PM
The "heck no we won't go, make love to any thing crowd" is in charge now. The government is growing brick by brick, dollar by dollar, freedom is shrinking one regulation at a time. You watch and you be the judge.

Ignition Override
December 3, 2012, 12:26 AM
d2wing/Ky Larry put much of our national "leadership" in a superb nutshell.
No pun intended.

gym
December 3, 2012, 01:32 AM
Why don't we the members and mods write up a well detailed document explaining the facts and statistics, what we have accomplished as far as lowering crime rates and saving lives. Perhaps an online petition, that we could then send to all Senators and Congressmen. Maybe , just maybe, we could wake up the millions of Silent gun owners and let their feelings be known to these scum of the earth politicians.
Obviously keeping quiet is not accomplishing anything, and the dozens of online polls other than the few legit organizations, some who ask for money are not all reputable. I propose a well written letter with evidence presented, and the consequences of many legislators losing their base if they vote against our 2A rights.
I believe as mentioned that this "lame duck" president fully intends to sneak something through into law under the guise of some mumbo jumbo. and we wake up one day and have 30 days to hand in our semi auto hand and long guns. If any members are interested in drafting such a letter and "mods" also. as they as a rule are more in touch with what to say and how to say it. It would at least show that we care.
Numbers talk, no one responds to a few people writing a letter, but if we got 25,000, or more, signatures, it would possibly show that this is not going down as easy as they may think, and there will be consequences for those legislators who believe otherwise.
If anyone feels they can be of service, I would be willing to devote what time I have, to making the common man a bit more learned about gun laws and the danger of more Government interference in our constitutional rights. It's been too quiet, and something is going to occur soon it got pushed to the side with neither of these guys wanting to alienate any more voters, but now the clouds are overhead once again.
God forbid we get another psyco on a rampage, I dread the thought. The Fiscal Cliff is upon us in a couple weeks and that can bring about ugly things. I don't want to get too far off course, it is about our guns, but please if you are interested or have a good idea, I am at your service in any way I can. PM or email works better than prolonging this thread.
I just don't see gun enthusiasts handing over their collection to Govt agencys?
Not when Guns have been such a large part of most of our lives.Weather it's tomorrow or two years from now, it can't be allowed to remain in question. Just my 2 cents, "adjusted for inflation"

Warp
December 3, 2012, 01:35 AM
I believe as mentioned that this "lame duck" president fully intends to sneak something through into law under the guise of some mumbo jumbo. and we wake up one day and have 30 days to hand in our semi auto hand and long guns.

Not a chance.

Ehtereon11B
December 3, 2012, 01:59 AM
Why don't we the members and mods write up a well detailed document explaining the facts and statistics, what we have accomplished as far as lowering crime rates and saving lives. Perhaps an online petition, that we could then send to all Senators and Congressmen. Maybe , just maybe, we could wake up the millions of Silent gun owners and let their feelings be known to these scum of the earth politicians.

Prestigious research organizations and universities have tried showing the statistics to politicians since at least the 90's. A semi-anonymous forum won't budge the die hard ones.

BSA1
December 3, 2012, 09:25 AM
gym,

It sounds like you are becoming a motivated gun owner. Thank you!

In regards to your suggestion to a on-line petition as pointed out by Ehtereon11B that has done many times.

There is a saying that all politics are local. It is more effective if you, your friends, fellow gun club members write individual letters to your Congressmen. Most politicians want to get reelected and will pay attention to what the voters in their district are thinking. Email makes letter writing easy these days.

“I believe as mentioned that this "lame duck" president fully intends to sneak something through into law under the guise of some mumbo jumbo. and we wake up one day and have 30 days to hand in our semi auto hand and long guns.”

Knowledge is power. That is why tyrants and dictators prevent the masses from becoming educated. The more you know and better understand how our political system works the more dangerous you are to those who political agenda is different than yours. I would like to suggest you take a U.S. Government course at a local Community College to get a better understanding of how the system works.

“Numbers talk, no one responds to a few people writing a letter, but if we got 25,000, or more, signatures, it would possibly show that this is not going down as easy as they may think, and there will be consequences for those legislators who believe otherwise.”

You are right. Numbers DO talk. Are you a member of the NRA?

Skribs
December 3, 2012, 01:40 PM
Actually the article in the Atlantic still talks about reducing "gun violence", which tells me the author still somewhat connects the tool to the act.

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