Laser for an AR


December 1, 2012, 01:37 AM
I am planning on getting either generation 2 or 3 night vision for one of my AR15s. I was also considering getting a laser. I would really appreciate any suggestions, i.e. is it worth it? which one would fit night vision the best? etc.

Thanks for any help in advance!

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December 1, 2012, 02:44 AM
what type of night vision pvs14, 22, 27?

December 1, 2012, 04:31 PM
PVS 14, I think.

December 2, 2012, 06:13 PM
Green will be brightest with NV amplification AFAIK, but be careful; It could end up being too bright, especially if the beam reflects back into your NVRS. It will hit you with much more intensity than if it reflected back to your naked eye.

December 2, 2012, 06:39 PM
Any suggestions as to what brand to buy, that won't break the bank?

December 2, 2012, 11:41 PM
budjet and nightvision dont go together

December 2, 2012, 11:42 PM
The night vision is taken care of, I was referring to the laser as to not break the bank.

December 3, 2012, 02:24 AM
budjet [SIC] and nightvision dont go together

Depends on your needs. I've been more than happy with an ATN Mk 390 Paladin Gen 1+ for pig hunting and predator control. Even on a dark night, with the illuminator I can postively ID a coyote versus a similar sized dog to 150+ yards. On a bright night, and especially with a light backdrop, this scope is usable well beyond 200 yards. The images are clear and sharp.

The only downside to the Paladin is weight; It's a pig of a scope at >3 pounds.

Now, a military sniper trying to ID a target by facial features? Yeah, he needs more magnification and better light amplification. I probably could not positively identify a person's face beyond 50 or 60 yards with the Paladin.

December 3, 2012, 10:34 PM
keep in mind you can use a regular day laser with NV and still see it at a much further distance. you only need the expensive IR lasers if you think it is important that you see without being seen.

December 5, 2012, 07:31 PM
LDI Laser Devices makes great lasers for civilians and are made in the USA. They are actually the same power output as a PEQ15 on low. The high setting on a PEQ15 is not practical for civilians. It is designed for pointing out mountains and far away targets.

ITAL / OTAL are IR Lasers (only)
CQBL-1 has a visible red laser and an IR Laser
DBAL-I2 several options available as far as housing color and laser option (red or green and IR)
DBAL-D2 Visible Laser, IR Laser & IR Illuminator

If you are going to purchase a generation 2 NVG then you will need to invest in a good IR Illuminator. (you did not ask about night vision but... we recommend investing in a good system from ITT or L3. The money you spend out weighs the performance you receive)

Beware - green lasers start to fail in 30 degree temperature

Hopefully this helps steer you in the right direction. It can be a very confusing topic. If you have additional questions please ask as are avid users of IR Lasers.

December 6, 2012, 10:29 AM
With Gen 4 aviation NVGs we could see a $15 laser pointer beam and a spot from it on a mountainside 5 miles away. Red will be much brighter than green through night vision since that is the light frequency that they are most sensitive to. The green lasers are best for unaided and bright light since that is the frequency of light that the eye is the most sensitive to.

December 6, 2012, 06:10 PM
Gen 3 night vision would not require an illuminator?

December 6, 2012, 07:39 PM
Skinnygrey - with night vision you can purchase different qualities in tubes and you receive different performance levels. It is not just Generation 2 or Generation 3 - unfortunately there is alot of grey area people are unaware of. For instance if you wanted to tow a trail and looked to purchased a 150 horse power engine or a 450 horse power engine - one will tow better.

For generation 3 night vision and high specifications the result is you can have no moon, overcast and no street light nearby / city is off in a distant and you will not need an ir illuminator to navigate. Yes alot of people are fans of the illuminator because it is like having a flashlight for your night vision but you can get by with out it.

For tube comparisons:
Companies use the term "hand select" or "P+ systems" for higher end systems. Typically these are from ITT and are known as Pinnacle. L3 also has high end systems. When purchasing a PVS-14 you receive a data sheet and for "hand select" or "P+ systems" this means your signal to noise would be 25+ and they honestly should be in the 27 to 30 range. Signal to noise is how well your night vision will perform in low light conditions.

Resolution or Lp / mm should be 64 or 72. A measurement of 64 means in real world terms having 20/20 vision.

FOM (Figure of Merit)
Image Intensification tube specification designation, calculated on line pair per mm x signal to noise.

When comparing data sheets you want to look at resolution and signal to noise. Higher ratings will increase your FOM. Also you can have high ratings but have alot of spots or pepper specks in your system. A system that is "image clean" will not have pepper specks or spots.

The PVS-14 has a built in IR Illuminator which works great for around your feet.

Since 2006 there have been no real changes in night vision. Autogating was the last major break through. I hope that helped clarify. Might have been overkill.

December 6, 2012, 08:04 PM
Many thanks!

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