I have heard that a 45 cartridge with 35 gr of bp and a 250 gr bullet is more powerful than the cowboy loads like ultramax and black hills. I have an R&D conversion for my 58 Remmy. Reason I ask is this a safe load to run through my gun. since ive heard its more powerful than "cowboy" loads, cause 35 gr of bp to me is a cowboy load.
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December 1, 2012, 08:50 PM
Any non-extreme black powder load should be safe for a steel-framed Remington repro with a conversion cylinder. However, heavy bullet .45 loads at anything over blooper velocity will produce significant recoil. If you are used to shooting a Ruger Vaquero, or other solid, substantial gun, the lightweight Remington with full-house BP loads will seem like a whole new animal.
Will full house .45 BP loads driving a 250, mine tend to batter the knuckle behind the trigger guard and muzzle flip is pronounced. Compared to a standard 24 grain round-ball load, recoil is snappy, to put it mildly. The modern repros are not made for heavy loads, and such will eventually shake things loose.
To prevent battering you or the gun needlessly, try a moderate load like a normal C&B charge of powder, a 180gr LRNFP, and filler like Cream of Wheat to bring the load to full volume. My Remingtons seem to shoot much more accurately with light bullets. I have also loaded .45 cases with a C&B charge of powder, filler, and a .454 roundball, essentially duplicating in a cartridge what I load in the C&B cylinder. Depending on the powder, BP or substitute, you can include a pre-lubed felt wad in place of some or all of the Cream of Wheat.
Note that BP cartridges require full-volume loads, never leaving any open space in the case. This also applies to BP substitures.
December 1, 2012, 09:17 PM
^ What Burt said.^ The original 45 Colt load (40grs of BP in a balloon-head case) was the king of the hill in cartridge handguns for 62 years, until the 1935 introduction of the .357 magnum. It wasn't a popgun.
December 1, 2012, 10:32 PM
Ok thanks guys for helping me out. On the other part if the question, is 35 or 40 gr charge more powerful than ultramax or black hills? Has anyone shot and compared through a chrony?
December 1, 2012, 11:35 PM
would it be "nicer" to load 35gr of FFg than FFFg?
December 2, 2012, 01:44 AM
1873 SAA with 35 grains of Goex FFFG 230 grain round nose bullet.
Similar in power to a cowboy load smokeless.
Sometimes all you have to do is go to the manufacturer's website and you will find out everything you need to know.
Ultramax lists two 45 Colt Cowboy loads. 250 grains at 730 fps and 200 grains at 650 fps.
Black Hills lists one. 250 grains at 725 fps.
For many years, the standard factory 45 Colt load was a 250 grain bullet moving at 800 fps.
I chronographed my Black Powder loads a bunch of years ago. 250 grain bullet moving a little over 700 fps out of a 7 1/2" Ruger.
None of these loads is exactly a pipsqueek load. As has been stated, the 45 Colt load I mentioned was the most powerful factory pistol load available until the advent of the 357 Magnum in 1935.
Don't confuse the commercial Cowboy loads with some of the home brew stuff brewed up to tame the 45 Colt down to the same recoil level as a wimpy 38 Special load. 165 grains at 650 fps or so.
Lastly, as far as safety is concerned, bullet weight and velocity is not the entire story. Pressure is the story, and depending on the powder used, pressure can vary widely even if bullet weight and velocity are similar. ALL smokeless powders have a much steeper and sharper peak pressure spike than Black Powder. This means that some surprisingly light loads may still have a peak pressure spike higher than the old BP loads.
Lastly, I have two 1858 Remmies with R&D conversion cylinders. Even though I fire full charges of Black Powder with 250 grain bullets in my Colts, the same load is uncomfortable in my Remmies with their conversion cylinders. This is because the grip shape of the Remmies is different than the Colts. I decided long ago to shoot 45 Schofields in my Remmies, with a 200 grain bullet and about 28 grains of FFg. Much more pleasant.
December 2, 2012, 05:43 PM
I like to use Schoffield cases to reload for my remmie , just because I reload my 45 Colts cases in 35 grains of 2F. I use them in rifle and rugers and uberti's
The Schoffields I load 25 or 30 grains and a 200 grain bullet if I have them and don't need a filler or felt wad.
just my humble way..
December 2, 2012, 07:41 PM
Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt firing factory Goex Black Powder Load