Intresting observation about 25-06


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Kachok
December 1, 2012, 09:30 PM
I spend alot of time talking caliber and cartrage of choice with deer hunters and I made an interesting observation about the 25-06 I have yet to meet a hunter who has hunted with it in the past that does not currently use one. Plenty of people who used to hunt with 30-06, 270, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Mags and darn near any other cartrage you can think of but 25-06 fanatics seem to be hooked for life. Technicaly speaking the 25-06 is ballisticly inferior to it's 280 cousin and others but people who use it swear by them. I have also noticed that 25-06 users are many times as likely to be handlaoders vs the more popular 270 and 30-06. Has anyone else noticed this?
BTW in the interest of full disclosure I have never owned or even shot a quarter bore rifle, but they do fascinate me.

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TexasPatriot.308
December 1, 2012, 09:46 PM
I got one too, hardly use it, but my .257 Roberts Ruger M77 is one of my favorites...a helluva caliber for an old fart like me.

MCgunner
December 1, 2012, 10:12 PM
I've owned my .257 Roberts since my grandpa gave it to me at age 16. I don't use that old gun enough, always got some new toy or twist I wanna do, but that old gun is more deadly than ever now that I discovered H4831. :D Grandpa used to use IMR4350 in it and I always just followed his wisdom until about 25 years ago when I read an article in "American Rifleman" and tried H4831. Velocity improved a smidge, but accuracy got even better. :D

I won a 25-06 in a gun show door prize drawing, a Remington 700 BDL. Beautiful gun, but I'd been pining for a Remington M7 and traded it right after picking it up for a stainless M7 in .308 Winchester. Now, I really like that gun and caliber, but that BDL sure was purdy. :D I just couldn't see getting it, though, as I already had a quarter bore that is a great performer and given my sentiment for the gun, shot my first deer with it at age 11, well, THAT gun will be passed on after I'm gone. It's killed a couple dozen deer for me. It shoots where I look. :D

Quarter bores are overlooked, but they're great deer/antelope guns, can knock 'em down WAY out there. Just that, well, so can the .270...:D But, they are quite easy on the shoulder, but then, so is the .270......

blackwalnut
December 1, 2012, 11:25 PM
Have fun with 25-06. It can do alot. I have never shot one or used one on game but i do know what a .243 WCF and a 6.5 x55 will do on deer. And since the .25 is in the middle with good velocity and plenty of good bullets out there it should be a winner...

In the title I mention the Roberts or .257 Roberts. I never had one but a couple of friends had them and loved them. One got passed around the family to every new hunter and the other sold. The one that was sold was deemed inferior to its replacement even though it was a favorite. Lots of deer and ground hogs fell to those rifles.

Have fun and be safe.

rayatphonix
December 2, 2012, 05:52 AM
I've taken 3 bucks this year with my 25-06. It's a pleasure to shoot due to the mild recoil. I'll never sell the gun and the only time I use something else is when it's likely I'll have a shot over 200 yards.

MCgunner
December 2, 2012, 08:13 AM
Range is not a problem with the quarterbores on deer. My grandpa took a nice buck with the Roberts paced out 390 yards. He shot a 117 grain Sierra flat based spitzer. I shoot the 100 grain game king, better BC.

DurangoKid
December 2, 2012, 08:20 AM
The 25-06 is my favorite take along rifle. It is a great Antelope and Mule deer rifle. The old 25 can hammer coyotes and Grey Wolves at 500 yds. My old Sako 25-06 lives in my truck and rides along in miles of back country.;)

Steve H
December 2, 2012, 08:40 AM
My two favorite deer rifles. I reload for both

Remington Sendero 25-06 light end is a 75 gr. bullet over 51 grs of 4064. Top end is 120 grainers it loves the original Barnes "X" 115 gr bullet.

Remington Mountain Rifle in 280. I'm commfy with it from dogs up to Elk.

jrdolall
December 2, 2012, 10:46 AM
I know of very few people who use the 25-06 as their primary hunting rifle here in Alabama. One of my neighbors keeps one in his ranch truck 24-7 because he can reach out and touch a coyote at long distances. It is a sweet shooting gun and I am on the lookout for a good deal on one as I have never owned one.
30-06 is still far and away the preferred rifle around here. I would say probably 80% of the hunters use a 30-06 with 270 and 243 being next in line. The occasional 30-30 for younger hunters, a few 308s with the ex-military crowd and that's about it. I personally hunt with all of the above from time to time but I go back to the 30-06 every year because that is what I grew up with.

I don't know of anyone who has dropped the 30-06 because of inferior ballistics or any reason other than the recoil as they get older. Of course most of these people are hunting white tailed deer in the hardwood bottoms and pines of Alabama so there are not a lot of 250 yard shots in this area. None of my good friends reload so I can't speak to that.

MCgunner
December 2, 2012, 11:01 AM
Lots of 'em in Texas for shooting down long senderos. Still a popular round here.

Kachok
December 2, 2012, 11:12 AM
jrdolall I live in Daphne AL, all but two of my co-workers hunt with 270 win, the two exceptions hunt with 25-06 and 30-06. I am the REAL odd bird with my 6.5x55, they never heard of such round these parts LOL To date I have met two people here that even know what that is and one of them runs a gun store :D
Went to Basspro a while back wanting to order some brass (yeah right) and the guy behind the gun counter asked me if that was some kind of 270 :banghead:

MCgunner
December 2, 2012, 11:16 AM
Dueling banjos? :D

jrdolall
December 2, 2012, 11:48 AM
I have a Swede that is a great gun and I am really getting to like the rifle. I don't hink I know anyone that has a clue what a 6.5x55 is. Now we can discourse on the merits of OO buck and OOO buck all day long or the advantage of 165 grain 30-06 vs 180 grain but don't bring up them thar furin guns. I probably have 2-3 friends that can tell you what caliber an AK 47 uses. 357 magnum and 38 special are still the preferred handguns round these parts.

PS. None of us play the banjo though I tried a few years back. Geetars are pretty common and one of the womenfolk plays a mean fiddle. She CALLS it a violin but we all know what it really is.

jrdolall
December 2, 2012, 11:53 AM
Went to Basspro a while back wanting to order some brass (yeah right) and the guy behind the gun counter asked me if that was some kind of 270
__________________

By this time next year I will have at least 100 6.5 casings as I try to save all my brass and I don't reload. If you want them I can get them to you when I have enough. I have not shot it enough to date but I plan to work it into my normal rotation so I will start shooting a box or so every month once deer season is over. I live just north of Eufaula.

critter
December 2, 2012, 01:09 PM
I have a 25-06 made on a M98 action with a Shilin barrel (26") It is scary accurate, very easy on the shoulder and is a good 'killing machine'. What's not to like!

Works on deer & varmnits both. No experience on other game.

beatledog7
December 2, 2012, 02:31 PM
I did a lot of research on quarter bores when I sought to bridge my .223 to 7Mag gap, and I very nearly bought a 25-06. The reasons I went for a .257 Bob instead were purely non-ballistic: I liked the idea of shooting at least one comparatively rare cartridge (everything else I have is ubiquitous), and in the end I wanted my quarter bore in a short action.

Any of the .257 cartridges would have covered the 80-ish to 120-ish bullet weights, perhaps the 25-06 best in pure ballistics terms. I still might buy one some day, but I'm pleased as punch with the Bob.

MCgunner
December 2, 2012, 02:48 PM
357 magnum and 38 special are still the preferred handguns round these parts.

Hmm, well THERE'S some common ground....:D

Any of the .257 cartridges would have covered the 80-ish to 120-ish bullet weights, perhaps the 25-06 best in pure ballistics terms. I sill might buy one some day, but I'm pleased as punch with the Bob.

I get 3150 fps from my 100 grain load, 3050 from a 117 Interlock. The .25 naught six can better that by a few hundred FPS handloaded, but it's pretty close to factory .25-06 ballistics. OH, edit, BTW, my rifle has a 24" barrel which helps. I think it's plenty enough, put it that way, and it's 1/2 MOA accurate with the 100 grain Game King and deadly on deer sized game with that bullet. I've got the exterior ballistics documented in my reloading notes, but it's all in storage right now or I'd impress you with some down range numbers. :D It IS a shooter, but it's sort of a reloaders caliber, which is fine by me. I like exclusivity. :D Like you, my other guns are ubiquitous...which for our hillbilly friends means "common". http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-018.gif Mine are 7 mag and .308 and I do load for 7.62x39 if I want to, though the ammo is so cheap, why bother? Hard to believe folks in Alabama haven't heard of THAT one. I mean, it's EVERYwhere and cheap! But, I guess it is a commie round for commie guns, probably not approved by the John Birch Society....http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-018.gif

T.R.
December 2, 2012, 03:53 PM
It's easy to get excited about the 25-06:

- less recoil than .308

- shoots flatter than 7mm MAG

TR

MCgunner
December 2, 2012, 03:58 PM
- shoots flatter than 7mm MAG

I could contest that one. 7mm bullets are generally a good bit higher in BC and THAT spells flatter shooting. I have the numbers, somewhere in a box in Corpus in one of five storage buildings. :D My 150 game king loads in 7 mag have a BC of .535 and come out of the barrel at 3200 fps. I don't know that there is a .25 caliber bullet who's BC breaks .400. I think the 100 grain game king, IIRC, is around .385 or something.

.25-06 shoots flat enough, though, I'll grant you that. :D I'm just nit pickin' there.

MachIVshooter
December 2, 2012, 04:21 PM
I have yet to meet a hunter who has hunted with it in the past that does not currently use one

It has enough oomph for any game in the lower 48, shoots very flat, and is easy on the shoulder, which is conducive to accuracy.

The very first gun I bought on my 18th birthday was a 700 BDL .25-06, which I topped with a Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14x. It has taken a lot of game animals, and though I've carried other rifles at times, it has always accompanied me on big game hunts. I have an 8mm Rem Mag that I'll carry if strictly in pursuit of Bull elk, but very often, I have a deer tag and a cow tag, so the .25-06 is more appropriate. I don't need the .323" 200 gr. bullet at 3,150 FPS for a mule deer or 400 lb cow elk. Bottom line, I shoot the .25-06 better without having to think about it. Get in a wonky position with my 8 mag, and I may be doctoring my eyebrow before gutting the animal.

I don't know that there is a .25 caliber bullet who's BC breaks .400.

Most of the 115+ boat tails are in the .400s. 117 gr. Gamking is my preferred bullet in the .25-06, .428 adjusted BC @ 3,100 FPS. I run them closer to 3,200. The Berger VLD 115 is .466 unadjusted.

No, it won't beat out the 7mm Rem Mag for trajectory or energy, but it also won't beat up your shoulder like the 7 will. That's the beauty of it. Take a guy with a .25-06 and a guy with a 7 mag, most likely only one can enjoy shooting a couple boxes off the bench in a sporting weight rifle.

Steel Talon
December 2, 2012, 04:32 PM
25-06 is my caliber of choice. I've hunted with it since 1970. Its fast flat and with proper bullet choice it hits like blue lightening. Some mmodels can be a bit finicky when developing a load for it but once done there is no reason to stray from that recipe.

My bullet choice is the 115grain nosler Partition.

MCgunner
December 2, 2012, 05:03 PM
No, it won't beat out the 7mm Rem Mag for trajectory or energy, but it also won't beat up your shoulder like the 7 will. That's the beauty of it. Take a guy with a .25-06 and a guy with a 7 mag, most likely only one can enjoy shooting a couple boxes off the bench in a sporting weight rifle.

I like the .25-06, mind you, but just for the sake of argument because I like to argue...:D...I don't find the 7 that punishing in my Savage 110. It's certainly no worse than a .30-06 that so many people think is the end all. I do use a past shoulder pad for benching it just so I won't be sore later, but it's no .338 on the shooters end, might not be for girls......:D J/K

I do have a sweet spot for the .25s. They're all anyone needs for deer and probably one of the best choices for pronghorn, not that I've ever hunted pronghorn. Not too many in coastal Texas.

JimKirk
December 2, 2012, 09:18 PM
25/06 since 1969 ... I have own two different rifles in it ... a Winchester Model 70 and currently a Browning A-Bolt ...

I blame the GA DNR for my first 25/06 ... .25 caliber was the largest caliber legal for small game in GA at that time ... wild hogs were considered small game! The second one was because a thief took the first one. I have other deer/hog guns, but the 25/06 is my favorite. Yes I am a reloader, since 1965, I bought my own reloading setup in early 1970.

303tom
December 3, 2012, 08:07 PM
I love the Quarter Bore...............

Ankeny
December 3, 2012, 08:27 PM
I guess that means we haven't met. :)

Kachok
December 3, 2012, 11:37 PM
[QUOTEI have yet to meet a hunter who has hunted with it in the past that does not currently use one.
I guess that means we haven't met. :)
Since we have an ex-quarterbore user I would like to ask what was it that you did not like about it? Everyone that I have met who uses them won't hunt with anything else for deer/pronghorn sized game.

Kachok
December 3, 2012, 11:50 PM
BTW the only reason I have yet to own a 25-06 is that I have yet to find one in a rifle I like with a 24"+ barrel. Sadly Tikka and Savage have the shorter 22" tubes and nobody around here has carried a Venture, Model 70, or Vanguard in it, thought about an X-Bolt but they are major $$$$ in my neck of the woods and I am less then blown away by my A-Bolt II. Sticky action, less then stellar trigger, slow firing pin, lackluster recoil pad, and 2 MOA accuracy with factory ammo. Hopefully I can get it to groups with handloads, because I really like the fit and finish of the rifle.

sixgunner455
December 3, 2012, 11:57 PM
ER Shaw will build you one on a Savage action, whatever length barrel you want. You'll have to wait a year or so to get it delivered, though. My buddy specced out a rifle on their website this week. We were both pleasantly surprised at the very reasonable quote they sent him.

Kachok
December 4, 2012, 12:10 AM
Yeah I have priced their barrels before, they seem to be really good for the money, but I would have to have a doner rifle to break down and every time I get a Savage they shoot so darn good I have a hard time changing anything. I bought my latest a 110 30-06 with every intention of installing an ER Shaw barrel, and then I made the tragic mistake of taking it to the range first LOL
My hunting buddy uses it all season long because it out shoots any of his high dollar guns :)
Would you tear down a rifle that shot 1" with factory hunting ammo and cloverleafs with handloads?

H&Hhunter
December 4, 2012, 12:28 AM
Quarter bores are cool. I just wish they'd make a few more slippery bullets with some sectional density in .257 cal. Which is why I moved from the .257 cal (6.3mm) to a 6.5 and a 6.8. I am re barreling a rifle right now into a 6.5-06 which is basically a 25-06 with a bit better bullet choice.

I have several buddies who are tried and true .25-06 guys and they do some impressive work with them no doubt. Those little quarter bore rounds are just so sweet to shoot!

Kachok
December 4, 2012, 12:34 AM
6.5-06 is an interesting choice, never shot one but on paper it shoots flatter, further and with less wind drift then the 25-06, 270, and 280. Impressive stuff I often wounder why it is still not a commercial cartrage, 120gr Ballistic Tips at 3200fps makes for a convening argument for hunters. Throw in 140gr VLDs at around 3k and you are set for world class long ranged shooting. Similar downrange performance to the 280 AI

sixgunner455
December 4, 2012, 04:23 AM
No, you're right, I would not tear down a rifle that shot like that. What I would do if I couldn't get what I wanted in a factory rifle is spec out a custom rifle for ER Shaw to build for me on a new Savage action. They have a rifle builder page on their website.

Sorry if I didn't make that clear, but that was what I was talking about.

kmrcstintn
December 4, 2012, 12:12 PM
I have a Savage 111G in .25-06 that I planned to become a varmint gun, but the guys I used to hunt with really never got the idea up-n-running; I stocked up on a particular round that the rifle loves...Winchester Super-X 90gr Positive Expansion Point and still have 7 or 8 boxes of it

the original scope was a Simmons Master Series ProHunter 6-21 x 44 (recategorized in the '44 Magnum' series), but I never fully warmed up to it (still have it in storage); new scope is a Redfield Revolution 4-12 x 40 since I was gonna repurpose the gun for deer & occasional varmint work closer to where I would be hunting;

right now it is resting in the cabinet waiting for warmer weather and trips to the range

mdauben
December 4, 2012, 05:16 PM
I've taken 3 bucks this year with my 25-06. It's a pleasure to shoot due to the mild recoil. I'll never sell the gun and the only time I use something else is when it's likely I'll have a shot over 200 yards.
Don't sell the .25-06 short, with most 100-115gr bullets its still got plenty of umph for deer out to 400 yards or more if you can do your job.

Steel Talon
December 6, 2012, 02:31 PM
Don't sell the .25-06 short, with most 100-115gr bullets its still got plenty of umph for deer out to 400 yards or more if you can do your job.

Absolutely correct! I use exclusively 115gr. Nos partitions and have made some hellacious long distance kill shots.

MCgunner
December 6, 2012, 02:48 PM
6.5x06 sounds interesting. It'd be easy to get brass for, at least. I've always thought the .264 Winchester Magnum deserved more following. 6.5x06 makes a little more sense to own, though, due to the beltless cartridge and ease of obtaining brass. Interesting.

H&Hhunter
December 6, 2012, 07:24 PM
6.5x06 makes a little more sense to own, though, due to the beltless cartridge and ease of obtaining brass. Interesting.

The easiest way to make 6.5-06 brass is to simply make one pass through the 6.5x06 sizing die with 25-06 brass. Don't use .270 brass as .270 win has a different shoulder and neck dimension than an 06. You can also take 06 brass and neck it down in the same way but I like to neck up and not down. I find it tends to workout better overall.

The 6.5-06 will push a 140 gr bullet right at 3000 FPS + or- depending on your barrel, length, smoothness, twist, ETC ETC. It's a really cool little cartridge although I'm not sure it really "gives" you anything over a .270 except cool factor and the need to be different. And I'm all about that !;)

WYcoyote
December 6, 2012, 08:12 PM
This buck is not a fan of the 25-06.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1275/13541916/24237949/404686126.jpg

Kachok
December 6, 2012, 08:34 PM
The 6.5-06 will push a 140 gr bullet right at 3000 FPS + or- depending on your barrel, length, smoothness, twist, ETC ETC. It's a really cool little cartridge although I'm not sure it really "gives" you anything over a .270 except cool factor and the need to be different. And I'm all about that !;)
140gr 6.5mm walks all over 150gr 277 cal bullets for ballistics, I did a detailed comparison of all the 06 offspring with their most efficient bullets at max load speeds (per Nosler) and the 6.5-06 emerged as the clear winner at long range (unless you count the 280 AI in which case it is close) with it's blistering fast 120gr bullets and ultra slick 140s.

Clipper
December 6, 2012, 10:31 PM
I've owned both the .25WSSM (same diff as the '06), and the Bob, and much prefer the Roberts. Max range around here is about 200 yards, and the bob will do anything Michigan has to offer at those ranges.

JohnB
December 7, 2012, 09:33 PM
In 1971 the USAF transferred me from my home in Alabama to Montana. I found out really quick that my Marlin 336C in .35 Remington was not a plains and prairie gun. I put a Remington 700 BDL .25-06 on layaway and had it paid out in just a few months. Then I bought an RCBS Rockchucker and started reloading and shooting prairie dogs and jack rabbits. I had that rifle dialed in by hunting season. I settled on 115 Nosler Partitions for deer and have not looked back. I have made over 50 one-shot kills with that rifle and load. Only two ran and both were less than 40 yards. I still load the same load in the Rockchucker and still grab that rife when I go deer hunting. Even though I have been back in Alabama since 1976 and have other rifles and supposedly better brush busting calibers the .25-06 is still the only one that makes it to the woods.

H&Hhunter
December 9, 2012, 05:24 PM
140gr 6.5mm walks all over 150gr 277 cal bullets for ballistics,

Please define "walks all over" in real world field use and hunting terms?:)

Larry Ashcraft
December 9, 2012, 07:21 PM
I've taken 3 bucks this year with my 25-06. It's a pleasure to shoot due to the mild recoil. I'll never sell the gun and the only time I use something else is when it's likely I'll have a shot over 200 yards.
Long shots are where the 25-06 shines. I've shot a couple of coyotes, one at 500, the other over 550. and it effectively gutted them right on the spot. There was also that pronghorn buck at 305 stepped off yards, DRT.

26" Douglas Air-Gauged barrel on a 1903 Springfield, 100 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip at 3300 fps.

Kachok
December 10, 2012, 11:30 AM
Please define "walks all over" in real world field use and hunting terms?:)
Much higher BC bullets to retain energy and reduce wind deflection on those 300+yd shots. Inside 300 where most people hunt you might never know the difference, but having lived way out in West Texas I can vouch for the importance of good ballistics in certain cases. Big ol mulies don't let you get too close when you don't have any cover.

H&Hhunter
December 10, 2012, 08:00 PM
Much higher BC bullets to retain energy and reduce wind deflection on those 300+yd shots. Inside 300 where most people hunt you might never know the difference, but having lived way out in West Texas I can vouch for the importance of good ballistics in certain cases. Big ol mulies don't let you get too close when you don't have any cover.

I understand all that. But what I'm getting at is that a good .277 (6.8MM) bullet in a proper weight SD and BC and velocity ain't that far off a good 6.5 MM at similar velocity. I'd say there is definitely an advantage with a good slippery 6.5 bullet I'm just not sure that it's all that much more than a slight advantage instead of "walking all over" it. I am a 6.5 fan as well don't get me wrong...:)

Have you seen the new line Accubond Long Range up for 2013? They are making a 150 gr .277 bullet with a BC of .625 this year. I'd say that's getting up there with the best of the 6.5 bullets. Check it out..

http://www.eastmans.com/forum/showthread.php/3755-New-Nosler-Accubond-Long-Range!

WYcoyote
December 10, 2012, 08:20 PM
I'm a 6.5 fan also but I agree that the .277 isn't that big of a difference for long range shooting and there are some bullets to choose from that really makes this a case of frog hair splitting (A common theme in ballistic discussions).
I think " walks all over " is a bit of a stretch.

Kachok
December 10, 2012, 08:45 PM
.625BC! Dang that is higher then the VLD! Might get a box of those for the short mag. Wounder it they stabalize in a 1:10 twist?
Why make a 6.5mm 129gr ALR and no 140gr?

WYcoyote
December 10, 2012, 09:25 PM
You almost answered your own question. It has to do with bullet twist. In the ALR configuration the Nosler people determined that the 140 gr 6.5 wouldn't stabilize with the popular 1-8" barrels. I wondered the same thing.

Kachok
December 11, 2012, 09:42 AM
I would bet that they could stabalize somthing in that weight range (137-139gr), have you seen how long a 6.5 140gr VLD is!?!? They stabalize just fine in a 1:8 twist. I think they went with the 129gr to appease the 1:9 twist 260Rem guys.
No 243 or 257 cal ALRs :( that is also a bummer, mabey next year. If you could give a 25-06 top notch BC bullets it would be a world beater with it's speed.

sage5907
December 11, 2012, 04:01 PM
I've been shooting a 25-06 since 1965 and now on my third one. Never fired a factory round only reloads. The reason the 25-06 is so highly regarded is that it is very easy to hit with up close or at long range. The 25-06 is an excellent varmint rifle, or a deer rifle for a young shooter or anyone who is recoil shy. My current opinion is that it makes a good deer rifle and I like to carry one while scouting, the 270 Wincherster is a better deer rifle, and a 30-06 is about as good as you can get. Shooter

Dthunter
December 13, 2012, 01:30 PM
I have used the 2506 for black bear,elk,moose and deer.
I use the Nosler 120grain partition, and a worked up load of Reloader25.
26" barrel, and it shoots sub MOA. It kills all those game animals effectively/consistantly.
Love the caliber! Its not for everyone, but it is fine for me.

With that said, I use others more now, just to try/learn about new cartridges.

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