Will we experience a Nuke/bio/Chemical activation in our Country?


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Tady45
February 1, 2003, 12:20 PM
As I am approaching 48 years on this earth, it never occured to me that the unthinkable was possible. As a 2nd grader during the Cuban missle Crisis, I remember hearing the siren every Tuesday morning at 10:00am sharp. Praticing the get under the desk, and tucking your head between your legs drill. etc. With the likely unpopular war coming very soon, and reports of terrorists or perhaps even a home grown group with a hidden agenda, posessing, or trying like hell to get a dirty bomb, or for that matter a Bio weapon, I think a discharge is very likely within the next couple of years. After this event, do we go to a police state? what about the RKBA issues, are you folks willing to turn in your weapons? Will army troops go house to house in search of arms, ammo, anything military related?? Will there be panic in the streets, looting, mass civil disobedience? Why are Army troops preparing for Urban Warfare? Is this all a stretch?



Larry

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10-Ring
February 1, 2003, 12:31 PM
I would think that because of the openness of our borders & the sheer numbers of people in the continental US, the chances of some kind of chemical attack is likely at some time.
As for what would happen post-attack...Something similar to what happened post 9/11. A rallying of the nation, greater feeling of nationalism, people more aware of their friends & neighbors and hopefully added measures to make such an attack in the future less likely.

Art Eatman
February 1, 2003, 01:01 PM
All throughout the Cold War I never expected any ICBM attack. I always figured either a suitcase nuke or some nuclear device onboard a freighter in one of our harbors.

For all our justifiable griping against the ongoing invasions of our privacy, I still see no alternative as to prevention of some form of nuke/bug/poison attack. Our entire criminal-law structure is designed to catch Bad Guys after the act, not prevent an act.

As near as I can tell from reading, the amount of monitoring that goes on as to precision equipment or types of toxic materials or types of bug is far more comprehensive than most of us envision. An incredibly diverse amount of "stuff" is on some watch list--and we hear of the failures far more often than we're told of the more-frequent successes.

One thing I see in this Al Quaed terrorism where I think they're messing up big time is that they are now being discovered in previously-neutral countries, and suspected of "biting the hand that feeds them". We are thus getting more assistance than before.

An awful lot of "damfino", of course.

About all I would predict is that it will be many years before we're back to a negligible level of idiocy.

Art

trapshooter
February 1, 2003, 01:04 PM
It already has. Remember the anthrax letters?

Small scale, true. But look at what two brain-dead nitwits with a less-than-optimal tool achieved in Maryland and Virginia not so long ago.

I think if larger-scale attacks of the type postulated took place, and were traced to a foreign group, knowing how to duck wouldn't be a skill that would help the perps, much.

Home grown? Again, depends on scale. Most groups who would whizz themselves at the thought are probably already 70-80% FBI undercover, I hope.

Sean Smith
February 1, 2003, 01:11 PM
Biological attacks have already happened here... remember the Anthrax? Chemcial attacks have already happened in Japan, where that cult set of a binary Sarin bomb off in the subway system. A Ricin attack was about to happen in London, but got nipped in the bud. That plot may have had actors in Spain and Italy, too, from the looks of things.

Kaylee
February 1, 2003, 02:46 PM
I'd say the odds of a major NBC attack within a major US population center approach 100% over the next twenty years. We've pissed off too many people and the weapons are more common than ever.

Though I'll grant Bush's war on AlQueda via hunting down and killling cells on the quiet helps the odds somewhat... I give us a better chance of ducking the blow now than anytime in the last decade.

-K

Mike Irwin
February 1, 2003, 03:04 PM
One of these days yes, I think it's inevitable.

telewinz
February 1, 2003, 03:55 PM
Of course its possible. I can remember about 4 years ago when the government was saying it was a question of where not when an act of terrorism would take place. I've been taking a few courses at the FEMA web site. They are free and are available on-line and are good enough for college credit.

Waitone
February 1, 2003, 05:25 PM
An NBC release will happen.

Most likely in cities symbolic to the Islamic mind.

The effect will depend upon what our illustrious media does with it. If they behave in the same manner as the anthrax attack, look for maximum hype and little intelligent information. Remember two facts about the anthrax attack: it took Big Media 3 weeks to report that any good antibiotic would work against anthrax, not just Cipro. That fact could have been determined with one telephone call and verified with another yet it took 3 weeks to get aired. Second, 5 weeks into the anthrax attack one of the media chains grew tired of the anthrax story and published gratitious pictures of a bad-off small pox victim. Helpfully showing us what is next. Completely and totally unnecessary.

A dirty bomb would not have to be dangerous to us to have a huge and chaotic effect. Radiation has gradients of intensity related to the kind of radiation. The most dangerous is gamma emitters, least dangerous is alpha particles. Alpha particles are dangerous only when inhaled and only after an extended time frame. A geiger counter set up to detect alpha particles will sing like an American Idol contestant but it will not be dangerous. Alpha particle emiters are easily available (smoke detectors and medical offices and hospitals). Gamma emiters are hugely dangerous, difficult to transport and deadly without a lot of lead shielding. A dirty bomb will most likely be assembled in the US with materials available in the US. Our media in its efforts to get it first (not right, first) will jump all over the singing geiger counter and create panic which is avoidable and unnecessary.

Depending upon how effective our media is, we can expect heavy handed government tactics in selected locations. The US government is big, but it ain't big enough to lock down 280 million people.

I hope someone has plans to exercise restraint and intelligence demands on the enthusiams on our media. These people can kill a lot of Americans through blind stupidity.

Remember, the same people to will report an NBC release in the US will be the same ones who treated us to the high powered assault killing machine. . . .a .223 Bushmaster. Again, factual information could have been determined with one phone call and verified with a second, but it wasn't.

AnklePocket
February 1, 2003, 05:29 PM
I'd say that it already would've happened if it weren't for the outstanding efforts of the FBI, CIA, Military, our National Leaders, ect. Having said all of that: I'd be surprised if one doesn't get through after the war begins. There's just so much resentment on those who choose freedom that it's inevitable. To live under the umbrella of freedom is, for some reason, a major threat to those (in these wierd countries) who have a very, very limited mental capacity. They especially go insane when they see those who have fled their countries only to live a prosperous and happy life in the United States.
My delusional thought is that once it happens (hopefully it won't) our national leaders will give some real thought to totally restoring our 2nd Amendment Rights. I don't see any other way. We absolutely need to get back to core American values. We need to embrace conservative issues and leave the liberal elite mindset in the dust. We need the leadership to get America back to what it was (and is, of course, in many places). We've got to get back to the WWII days where no one would dare attack us within our borders as "There's a rifle behind every blade of grass.".
And that's just the way it's got to be. Anyone who shoots themselves in the head by "accident" is out of the gene pool having proven Darwin accurate. We don't need them around anyway weakening future generations, I guess. Harsh, yes, but think about it. Too bad. There's some real scum out there and I will not succumb to it, period, end of discussion, done, finished, gone.
May I trade my knife in, one day, for a carry gun.

Marshall
February 1, 2003, 07:51 PM
I can see the Libs now, blaming Bush for any attack we may have in the future.

I think it will be just like someone here already said, just like 911. There will be citizens pitching in and helping wherever possible and our 1st responders doing excellent jobs that are above and behong as always! There will be no Police States or Marshall Law declared.

Our country does exceptionally well in times of horrific and shocking events and happenings. ;)

Standing Wolf
February 1, 2003, 09:57 PM
I see no reason to suppose the Islamic terrorist savages won't attack us again, especially considering we're doing little or naught to persuade them attacking America has serious consequences.

PATH
February 1, 2003, 10:05 PM
Not a matter of if. Simply a matter of when and where.

CAP
February 1, 2003, 10:11 PM
Yes, truck, car or suitcase delivery.

Atticus
February 1, 2003, 10:17 PM
Probably. I see two possible outcomes if/when we go to War with Saddam.

1) Saddam will unleash his stockpiles of chem\bio against US forces, Israel, and possibly other Arab neighbors. And as terrible as that would be, it could be a blessing in disguise.

2) Saddam's command and control falls apart day one of the war. U.S. led attacks kill Saddam, most of his inner circle, and records of WMD locations are destroyed or lost. Years after the war, people are still finding caches of WMD and selling them to the highest bidder, or simply giving them to Al Queda or Palestinians.

Hkmp5sd
February 1, 2003, 11:04 PM
I believe that we are safe for the immediate future. However, in 10-15 years, when a couple of our current "friends" have made the switch to foes, I think we will have a dirty-bomb detonation inside the US since that is the easiest of all WMD to acquire.

Remember, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. were all our best friends not that long ago. We are keeping a close eye on the current group, limiting their ability to harm us. When some country that we are not watching turns against us, they will have a window of opportunity while they are still below the radar screen to attack us either themselves or by aiding terrorists groups.

labgrade
February 2, 2003, 05:06 AM
We were only 60 years out from the last sneak attack on our soil - a mere blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things all told.

We'll have another, & I do think we'll have another sooner than later.

We already have a police state.

No. No.

Probably not = we'll still have the basics in most any area not covered by the disater - see 9/11. Yup, it was horrific, but everywhere else wasn't effected except by anything vicariously pyschological.

They must. It's called MOUT & could come in handy anywhere.

No, but don't read too much into it all.

12.7x99mm
February 2, 2003, 05:19 AM
I believe that I will see a nuclear exchange in my lifetime.... and possibly a chemical/bio attack. Don’t know if it will be here on our soil but I think it will happen.

Theres lots of crazy people out there in the world these days


:scrutiny:

JPM70535
February 2, 2003, 06:14 AM
The question should be not if a Nuke/ Bio/ Chem device will be used against the U.S. but when. With virtually open borders to both the North and South I am frankly amazed that it has not already occurred.

I too am a child of the Cold War, who too well remembers the school drills, and the backyard bomb shelters of the Fifties. In retrospect, those were an exercize in futility. The consequences of an all out Nuclear attack as was invisioned back then would have been so devastating as to render the world uninhabitable for centuries. Nevil Shutes novel, On The Beach was IMO the defining novel on the consequences of total Nuclear war. What we as a Nation face today is not the total destruction of the world, instead we face the possibility of one or more terrorist actions that while they would be devastating in a confined area and would cause thousands of casualtys, would be survivable.

The real question is what response and against who would be appropriate in retaliation for the terrorist action. If The action is committed by a State (missle from NK) then the answer is obvious
"NUKE EM TILL THEY GLOW" Less certain is a terrorist incident.(suitcase nuke or BIO/CHEM) carried out by Muslim group) Who is to be held accountable?

The "Peace at any Price" segment of our population will insist on absolute proof as to the identity of the person(s) responsible before retaliation. If it is, lets say, Osama Bin Laden, Against who do we strike? Is it possible to assign responsibility to any Nation as being ultimately responsible?

My guess would be that the U.S. will do nothing except perhaps bomb a few rock strewn fields in an unpopulated stretch of desert. After all we wouldn't want to kill "innocent civilians" would we.


YEA THOUGH I WALK THROUGH THE VALLEY OF THE SHADOW OF DEATH I WELL FEAR NO EVIL.
FOR I AM THE MEANEST****** IN THE VALLEY.

tommytrauma
February 2, 2003, 07:12 PM
Why are Army troops preparing for Urban Warfare? Because the next battlefield will be urban. Has nothing to do with preparing for domestic events. Bagdad, Mogadishu, Kosivo, no matter where our troops go, they'll have to deal with urban battlefields. If anything, we're underprepared in this arena.

Edited to add links.
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/7963/war1.htm
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/article.cfm?Id=63
http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/96spring/peters.htm

Selfdfenz
February 2, 2003, 09:04 PM
With non-borders like ours how can we not have another attack?
Decades of having no real policy in keeping the wrong kinds of people out and not assuring the ones we let in are the right ones is about to cost us.

One major deterent would be very close to what kept the SU from a first strick back in the day.
1.Assure the BGs that they will be destroyed singly or in mass if we can catch them and we will never stop looking. We have no concern for their problems with US foreign policy or what they may have twisted the words of Allah to mean. We don't care if they have even twisted the words of Allah.
And...their families aren't safe...ever

and more importantly

2. If, as a foreign nation, we find that you or organizations in your country have been giving aid and comfort or staging areas to the BGs, expect to have a large portion of your nation made uninhabitable for a long long time because of the fallout. The BGs need a base of support aor at least a place to train and set plans. In some cases just being ignored meets their needs. If we convice the supporting nations and governments that doing business with the BGs has too high a price tag the world suddenly get much safer for us and US.
Just threating to pull foreign aid ain't going to cut it.

Of couse this requires consistancy and keeping our promises over every future administration, which will never happen.

I can't help but think that if we used all the $$ we spend on foreign aid to come up with alternative energy sources we would not have a dependence on these people and could afford to care less if they eat each other. Isolationist I know but possibly a good dose of common sense too.

S-

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